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On March 16 2007 21:26 Corinthos wrote:
Why did KeSPA sell the rights? =/ Why did IEG buy the rights, if they are trying to just gain back the money they used to buy the rights. That's where I'm lost. I agree with you infinity, IEG should sell their rights to OGN & MBC.
IEG's looking to make up that gap (and then some) by getting the games broadcasted outside of Korea. This would be very good for us if it works out well.
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OGN & MBC created and developed Proleague to the level it is today. They have the infrastructure, and they broadcast the games. They shouldn't have to "buy" it from anyone because they're the ones who created it and broadcasted it.
The whole "it's for the good of e-sports" argument is weak. You don't help the SC industry by screwing over the companies that created, developed, and are currently supporting it. There are other ways to promote and develop the industry. It's not like OGN/MBC unfairly treats the other teams or suppresses competition. They actively compete with one another and cooperate for Proleague.
And OGN/MBC would definite lose money because of these deals. They've operated with no outside costs since the beginning. Now they've agreed to pay for some things, but IEG demands even more. Not only is it $1.5million, it's also 40% of their income. Income is only what you take in, not counting the costs. If ANY company had to pay 40% of their revenue, they'd be way into the red. How can you make any profit with only 60% of your revenue unless you raise prices?
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
For those of you thinking that IEG will be losing $ if it settles for say 1.5M only, you are forgetting that the agreement they're going to have with MBC/OGN will NOT be an exclusive deal and presumably they will be making $ off of those plans to spread progaming internationally or w/e.
Acutally, i'm somewhat worried that IEG will begin to crack down on the type of actions that TL/Broodwar.de/sc2.org/playsc.com/yaoyuan are doing, by providing vods to an international fanbase for free. This in essence is taking away from IEG's potential profit margin, and action might take place that will no longer allow, for instace, ourseves at TL to have free access to vods etc.
Also, most of us (incl. me) don't know the costs that go into broadcasting and producing shows, and what is involved. I'm not sure who pays for the venues, including places like coex mall where all the normal shows are shot. Lighting men, camera crew, publicity staff, list would go on and on I think, aside from the obvious commentator crew that we've mentioned.
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I'm under the impression that KeSPA takes care of the venues for Proleague, as well as publicity. Camera crews and commentators are up to MBC, OGN, and whoever else might be broadcasting games.
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I blame the bitches @ KeSPA for first selling the rights to third-party people (IEG). That's where shit started to go wrong.
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IMO you can't just divide the money based on who does what. OGN and MBC originally made all this eSport industry possible, all the leagues, proteams, KeSPA are from their idea and effort.
It's somehow similar to, say, you invented a product and hired people to work for you to produce, maintain and distribute it together with you. After a while, those people tell you, hey, we contribute to xx % of the production process, we shoule get xx % of the revenue, or they can even kick you out of the business even when it used to be your very own idea and your own effort from the early hard days. It can be perfectly right in terms of laws and stuff but just doesn't sound morally right.
All the pro teams, pro leagues, eSport association,.. are result of OGN and MBC's hard work from the day no one could even dare to think that progaming could become a real job. And now the 2 channels have to negotiate to have right to use what they created,. As Testie said in business all are assholes, but in this case KeSPA is the less reasonable side IMO.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Well what people don't seem to know is that KeSPA gives huge sums of money to OGN & MBC under the title "production costs". I believe they got $1 million from KeSPA for 2006, and they were promised $1.5 million over 3 years from IEG in the negotiation.
Anyways, KeSPA had every single right to put the right up for sale, even if all of us don't like them for doing it. It was OGN & MBC's fault for not recognizing this and unfortunately putting the entire e-sports industry under jeopardy.
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IEG didn't buy the broadcast rights for the "good of e-sports." They bought it for the same reason all businesses buy things, to make money off of their investment. They made demands earlier, which were met. Now they're demanding more. These demands will escalate in the future.
The good of e-sports depends on OGN and MBC's profitability and possibly more competition. If it makes profit, the companies will like it and probably invest more in it for expansion (to make even more profit). As a corporate executive, you won't care about the "good" of things. If something's too costly to run and maintain, it's best to kill it and invest in other things.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On March 16 2007 22:50 mrdx wrote:
IMO you can't just divide the money based on who does what. OGN and MBC originally made all this eSport industry possible, all the leagues, proteams, KeSPA are from their idea and effort.
It's somehow similar to, say, you invented a product and hired people to work for you to produce, maintain and distribute it together with you. After a while, those people tell you, hey, we contribute to xx % of the production process, we shoule get xx % of the revenue, or they can even kick you out of the business even when it used to be your very own idea and your own effort from the early hard days. It can be perfectly right in terms of laws and stuff but just doesn't sound morally right.
All the pro teams, pro leagues, eSport association,.. are result of OGN and MBC's hard work from the day no one could even dare to think that progaming could become a real job. And now the 2 channels have to negotiate to have right to use what they created,. As Testie said in business all are assholes, but in this case KeSPA is the less reasonable side IMO.
You say that "All the pro teams, pro leagues, eSport association,.. are result of OGN and MBC's hard work". But that's not true. KeSPA did its fair share of the work and look at all the players that spend 10 hours a day practicing. They have nothing to doSure, the broadcasting company makes it look nice, but isn't it the players and the teams that made it so interesting? They presented everything to you, but what they are really responsible for is not as much as people think.
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There are players and teams all over the world. Why isn't SC as popular elsewhere? Surely it is possible for SC to be like it is in Korea in some smaller countries like Taiwan or some high-tech European countries. But it's not. Nobody was there to invest it in it and develop it to this level. There are car companies all over the world. Why are the Japanese ones better than the American ones?
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I think OGN and MBC have too much power: a sport (even an e-sport) shouldn't be controlled by commercial TV channels. Starcraft tournaments need to be run by an independent body that is solely focused on promoting the game, without worrying how to broadcast it or whether to show DDR or MMORPGs instead.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On March 16 2007 23:07 vnlegend wrote:
There are players and teams all over the world. Why isn't SC as popular elsewhere? Surely it is possible for SC to be like it is in Korea in some smaller countries like Taiwan or some high-tech European countries. But it's not. Nobody was there to invest it in it and develop it to this level. There are car companies all over the world. Why are the Japanese ones better than the American ones?
I never said OGN & MBC played no part in it. It takes a perfect combination of all these things for something to be so successful. And people aren't giving enough credits to the players, coaches, teams, sponsors, etc. for making this happen. I'm just reminding people that OGN & MBC didn't do all the work.
Interesting story about gaming in Korea: The reason why SC surged in popularity is because there was a huge increase in PC Bangs (internet cafes) around the country. There was this amazing timing and that's why computer games are way more popular in Korea than any other country and there are so many PC Bangs in Korea compared to any other country.
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United States5262 Posts
On March 17 2007 00:24 infinity21 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2007 23:07 vnlegend wrote:
There are players and teams all over the world. Why isn't SC as popular elsewhere? Surely it is possible for SC to be like it is in Korea in some smaller countries like Taiwan or some high-tech European countries. But it's not. Nobody was there to invest it in it and develop it to this level. There are car companies all over the world. Why are the Japanese ones better than the American ones? I never said OGN & MBC played no part in it. It takes a perfect combination of all these things for something to be so successful. And people aren't giving enough credits to the players, coaches, teams, sponsors, etc. for making this happen. I'm just reminding people that OGN & MBC didn't do all the work. Interesting story about gaming in Korea: The reason why SC surged in popularity is because there was a huge increase in PC Bangs (internet cafes) around the country. There was this amazing timing and that's why computer games are way more popular in Korea than any other country and there are so many PC Bangs in Korea compared to any other country.
Word. I think at around 1998 or 1999, the Korean government made broadband internet a top priority for their country because they saw the Internet as the future. Because the Internet was so readily available, the PC Bangs blossomed, and as a result games blossomed as well.
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Plus SC is a sick game that only requires a ddong com to play.
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So kespa instead of selling non exclusive rights to all interested parties and taking all the profit, they sell exclusive rights to IEG, so IEG gets the extra cash, why doesn't this look right?
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Starcraft players come and go. If not Starcraft then something else newer would had easily replace Starcraft later if not for OGN & MBC. It is easy to see the lasting appeal of Starcraft because most of us are hardcore Starcraft players, but the majority of the people aren't. Majority of them don't even know what high level Starcraft looks like. In a non-competitive group, people eventually get bored then move on to something else. OGN & MBC showed to the mass, the lasting appeal & depth of Starcraft then that got them hooked & it exploded from there.
If OGN & MBC didn't exist, Starcraft would similar to every other country. On life support. Imagine if OGN & MBC existed in your country and push Starcraft the way they did when Starcraft was popular, especially in the US. OGN & MBC helped keep Starcraft alive and made it what it is today. Companies like KeSPA can be easily replace by something else during its growth, but now it's too big and powerful of a role.
Money is everywhere and there are people who are trying to find the next big thing to invest millions into. It just takes an idea to change the world.
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well i hope this gets solved soon but im on the side of OGN/MBC >.<
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It's not illegitimate for IEG to make profit off their investment. It's illegitimate to ask for as large a percentage of OGN and MBC's VOD profits as they are.
Also, the statement by the pro teams is weak. They acted like children by walking out of the MBC preliminary, so OGN and MBC called them out on it.
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United States20667 Posts
both sides are being pretty nasty about it. I understand that OGN and MBC are pissed about basically being legally abused, but their reaction seems to be childish. And then the counter-reaction is even more childish. This is really like kindergarten children fighting on playground over a swing set.
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EPT
