Why isnt this on the calender?. I knew somethin was missing o.O soO vs Stork again. Plzthxbai Edit: Wait. It is on the calender. But why doesnt this show in upcoming events? It only shows Altitude ISL and OSL Eng Rebroadcast. No PL
I'm like, WTF? Don't they usually have games on saturday? And i check calendar and i don't see it, and then i see this... And don't tell me this is an exclusively SC2 event, because there is still some BW in this.
On June 03 2012 10:59 Release wrote: This isn't on the calendar.
I'm like, WTF? Don't they usually have games on saturday? And i check calendar and i don't see it, and then i see this... And don't tell me this is an exclusively SC2 event, because there is still some BW in this.
This is an exclusive SC2 event today. J/K, who'd want that shit!
On June 03 2012 10:59 Release wrote: This isn't on the calendar.
I'm like, WTF? Don't they usually have games on saturday? And i check calendar and i don't see it, and then i see this... And don't tell me this is an exclusively SC2 event, because there is still some BW in this.
Kind of sucks that they're meeting with Fantasy, Bisu, and Stork all on their SC2 rotations. I would've loved to see a Fantasy TvP or Bisu v Stork PvP in BW. And to think T1 vs Khan used to be my favorite match every round of PL.
On June 03 2012 14:19 Jindo wrote: Need to get out of 7th place. T1 fighting!
So if im looking at standings right they can go strait to second is it?
3rd
On June 03 2012 14:23 baubo wrote: Kind of sucks that they're meeting with Fantasy, Bisu, and Stork all on their SC2 rotations. I would've loved to see a Fantasy TvP or Bisu v Stork PvP in BW. And to think T1 vs Khan used to be my favorite match every round of PL.
On June 03 2012 14:23 baubo wrote: Kind of sucks that they're meeting with Fantasy, Bisu, and Stork all on their SC2 rotations. I would've loved to see a Fantasy TvP or Bisu v Stork PvP in BW. And to think T1 vs Khan used to be my favorite match every round of PL.
Go Khan!
Tell me about it, so underwhelming.
Arent they playign team in second so if they win they can be tied with the rest at 2-2 and win on score?
On June 03 2012 14:19 Jindo wrote: Need to get out of 7th place. T1 fighting!
So if im looking at standings right they can go strait to second is it?
3rd
On June 03 2012 14:23 baubo wrote: Kind of sucks that they're meeting with Fantasy, Bisu, and Stork all on their SC2 rotations. I would've loved to see a Fantasy TvP or Bisu v Stork PvP in BW. And to think T1 vs Khan used to be my favorite match every round of PL.
Go Khan!
Tell me about it, so underwhelming.
Arent they playign team in second so if they win they can be tied with the rest at 2-2 and win on score?
No, you're right and I'm mistaken. T1 can take 2nd with a win here.
On June 03 2012 14:41 X10A wrote: The Commander and the Womantoss shown on camera Core warping in the main, next to the gas Probe still scouting around
On June 03 2012 14:41 X10A wrote: The Commander and the Womantoss shown on camera Core warping in the main, next to the gas Probe still scouting around
Womantoss? Tossgirl?
Bisu, he's ridiculously womanly, therefore the Womantoss, By.Sun is womantoss jr.
Two cannons are done Gat and forge fall Two, three cannons fall Hydras have broken through! All cannons are dead GG from Best Shine takes set 1 in typical Toilet zerg fashion, off three bases. lol wut 1-0 for Khan in BW
On June 03 2012 14:47 RowdierBob wrote: Yeah it's terrible. The most frustrating thing is protosses keep dying to it all the damn time.
They really should only practice this PvZ...
But then again the Hydralisks can come at all sorts of different timings 3 hatch no lair, post-lair 4 hatch/fake 5 hatch, "normal" 3 hatch spire 5 hatch hydra, maybe even 2 hatch
Hydra busts seem to be responsible for 80% of Protoss losses to Zerg the last two PLs. What's the problem? Best at least had enough cannons but his DT rush was perfectly scouted.
Best didn't scout the hydra den and his cannons were too close to the front line (could have planned half a grid between cannon and gateway when he placed pylon), pew pew
On June 03 2012 14:47 X10A wrote: Can't remember any great macro PvZ/ZvP for the life of me Roro vs Bisu on CB, but nothing in the recent past, maybe Hoejja vs Best?
I thought Best was good at PvZ, yet he falls for the oldest Zerg strategy in the book. I expected more. I don't blame Shine at all, if there is a strategy that works are routinely as Hydra busts do, he should use it until Protosses figure it out.
On June 03 2012 14:46 SarcasmMonster wrote: Almost every ZvP I've seen so far has been a successful 3 hatch hydra bust. BW ZvP is so 1-dimensional.
That wasn't a 3hat hydra.
It was actually pretty clever because sair sees spire in main and 4th hat placed in nat so Best assumes standard and pulls sair back to main. This makes him miss the hydra timing. In addition, sair saw second gas timing so he assumed muta. (shine wnet 3hat muta vs shy recently)
P.S every zvp isn't a 3hat hydra. It's as dumb as when people say every zvp is 5hat hydra when that hasn't been true for ages either.
On June 03 2012 14:46 SarcasmMonster wrote: Almost every ZvP I've seen so far has been a successful 3 hatch hydra bust. BW ZvP is so 1-dimensional.
Bisu would like to talk to you.
You mean the guy who lost to hyvaa's hydra bust in the OSL preliminaries?
Yep, the guy who has a history with not making it out of OSL prelims.
There's no doubt that Z has the advantage in ZvP, but that's how it's supposed to be. Bisu has made a living of bucking the trend the majority of the time though, certainly enough to say that it's more than 1 dimensional.
On June 03 2012 14:46 SarcasmMonster wrote: Almost every ZvP I've seen so far has been a successful 3 hatch hydra bust. BW ZvP is so 1-dimensional.
That wasn't a 3hat hydra.
It was actually pretty clever because sair sees spire in main and 4th hat placed in nat so Best assumes standard and pulls sair back to main. This makes him miss the hydra timing. In addition, sair saw second gas timing so he assumed muta. (shine wnet 3hat muta vs shy recently)
P.S every zvp isn't a 3hat hydra. It's as dumb as when people say every zvp is 5hat hydra when that hasn't been true for ages either.
I get as annoyed as anyone with all this talk of "oh he died to another hydra bust", but you can't deny that zergs these days are so good at disguising the timing of their hydras/mutas to mess up the protoss. Shine, Zero, Soulkey are all good at making their builds look standard 5-hatch build until the moment you see hydra in front of your natural.
Rax on top of the ramp for Reality Sun scouting 11 oclock first, down to 7 I think Reality going to scout cross positions ...What THE EFF Hyuk's hair makes me want to puke
On June 03 2012 14:46 SarcasmMonster wrote: Almost every ZvP I've seen so far has been a successful 3 hatch hydra bust. BW ZvP is so 1-dimensional.
That wasn't a 3hat hydra.
It was actually pretty clever because sair sees spire in main and 4th hat placed in nat so Best assumes standard and pulls sair back to main. This makes him miss the hydra timing. In addition, sair saw second gas timing so he assumed muta. (shine wnet 3hat muta vs shy recently)
P.S every zvp isn't a 3hat hydra. It's as dumb as when people say every zvp is 5hat hydra when that hasn't been true for ages either.
I get as annoyed as anyone with all this talk of "oh he died to another hydra bust", but you can't deny that zergs these days are so good at disguising the timing of their hydras/mutas to mess up the protoss. Shine, Zero, Soulkey are all good at making their builds look standard 5-hatch build until the moment you see hydra in front of your natural.
I think the best way to notice would be the drones count, which would be lower than a real 5h hydra.
Proxy DT tech at 5 oclock Core is spinning Fact on the way Proxy fact from Reality at 11 oclock What the eff Archives warping in, nexus warping at nat also
Two goons hammering away at the bunker, 3 now Tank is out No academy or ebay yet DT's running cross map, already at the base 4 vultures countering at Sun's nat Tank and scvs get taken out Ebay is DONE Tons and tons of probes are dying
Often progamers scout hidden tech for a long time before gg - I'm guessing coaches want them to do that just as additional experience about finding the location, which would otherwise just be revealed in the replay directly. It's for training.
LoL is really big after watching that commercial.. the audience there for the LoL Finals is huge, perhaps even larger than the audience for Proleague Finals.
On June 03 2012 15:13 sinistral wrote: LoL is really big after watching that commercial.. the audience there for the LoL Finals is huge, perhaps even larger than the audience for Proleague Finals.
But nothing beats Proleague Finals on the beach... T.T
On June 03 2012 15:06 Motivate wrote: dear terrans
with the number of DT builds these days, why do you delay detection so much?
also, lol at reality trying to scout the DT tech before he leaves... is he that curious?
Terran thinks protoss will play standard and find themselves 70% disappointed most of the time .
Protoss thinks zerg will play standard and find themselves 90% disappointed most of the time =)
mmm at least 3h hydra takes some semblance of micro and scout denial rather than just parking goons in front of your nat and sending a DT into your opponents scv line
On June 03 2012 15:13 sinistral wrote: LoL is really big after watching that commercial.. the audience there for the LoL Finals is huge, perhaps even larger than the audience for Proleague Finals.
But nothing beats Proleague Finals on the beach... T.T
Wonder if they'll reserve the beach for this season.
Given the low priority timeslots for the regular season...I'm guessing not.
On June 03 2012 15:13 sinistral wrote: LoL is really big after watching that commercial.. the audience there for the LoL Finals is huge, perhaps even larger than the audience for Proleague Finals.
But nothing beats Proleague Finals on the beach... T.T
bad manner firebathero throwing rice at the opponent's bench and than throwing him self in to the beach was awesome .
On June 03 2012 14:46 SarcasmMonster wrote: Almost every ZvP I've seen so far has been a successful 3 hatch hydra bust. BW ZvP is so 1-dimensional.
That wasn't a 3hat hydra.
It was actually pretty clever because sair sees spire in main and 4th hat placed in nat so Best assumes standard and pulls sair back to main. This makes him miss the hydra timing. In addition, sair saw second gas timing so he assumed muta. (shine wnet 3hat muta vs shy recently)
P.S every zvp isn't a 3hat hydra. It's as dumb as when people say every zvp is 5hat hydra when that hasn't been true for ages either.
I get as annoyed as anyone with all this talk of "oh he died to another hydra bust", but you can't deny that zergs these days are so good at disguising the timing of their hydras/mutas to mess up the protoss. Shine, Zero, Soulkey are all good at making their builds look standard 5-hatch build until the moment you see hydra in front of your natural.
I'm saying that zerg builds have rarely been 5hat hydra (chain reaction had some and most recent time it was actually used was roro vs mini) and yet people still call every zerg build that. Example being a zerg getting nat and third gas immediately after 5th hat with no den or evo and going +1 flyer cara muta/scourge and yet people still call it 5hat hydra. (ie sayle casting a jd zvp on CR vs either m18m or free). Recent relevant example this PL season was hoejja vs sang when hoejja went +1 flyer cara 6hat 4base 6hat hydra and yet randoms in LR thread ie blind-rawr still say it's "standard" 5hat hydra.
Sharp manages to get into the main base Reaver gets 4 scvs Reaver down to one shot or so Armory is done, goliath should be out soon No mining being done in the main, or very little I should say Afrotoss has two bases up, four gates Shuttle and reaver barely not getting away =/
Stargate and archives warping in for Afrotoss 3 oclock going to get taken at the 3rd Robo is going to fall relatively soon Four facts total, two under construction Probe falls before the nexus gets plopped down at 3 oclock
Wowow it's so late 1 oclock main is being warped in as a 4th, 1 oclock nat as a 5th for Afrotoss I believe Big mines landing on the goons, kills two and splashes on the rest
1-1 for Steel Arbiter recalls into the main, further into the main, to avoid the spider mines Armories falls, and some depots also The recall gets cleaned up mostly Second armory is at the nat 0-1-1 for toss ground
Huge storms on the clumped tanks But not enough zealots to keep pushing into the Steel army 7-8 facts for Sharp Oh boy, Afrotoss might not be able to hold on
Afrotoss trying to do some zealot bombs, but it's not going to work DT's, but Sharp is on top of the comsats Not enough gates Afrotoss =/ Nat nexus falls
Third of Afrotoss is going to fall One last attempted push out Deep tank line, and the majority of Afrotoss's forces is in zealots and a single templar or two at 1 oclock And probes GG from Afrotoss Sharp takes set 3 for Khan, 2-1 in BW
more than any season i can remember, people seem to grin when they lose this PL. do you think it's a sign they don't take it too seriously this round either
Thank god it's over. BW games nowadays are not the same as before. Btw. do we really need two threads in both sections?
Expecting a good SC2 games from Fanta and Bisu! Hopefully the ace match won't be played by a rookie. As much as I would be pleased to see the happiness of a rookie, ace matches should be played by Stork/Jangbi and Fantasy/Bisu (while Samsung vs SKT1). But it is very unlikely.
On June 03 2012 15:45 jaQi wrote: Thank god it's over. BW games nowadays are not the same as before. Btw. do we really need two threads in both sections?
On June 03 2012 15:42 o[twist] wrote: more than any season i can remember, people seem to grin when they lose this PL. do you think it's a sign they don't take it too seriously this round either
yes paralyze's smiles there were a little disturbing, i don't think that happened so much in the past
On June 03 2012 15:48 baubo wrote: If SC2 had BW's terran mech ball, I'd like the game hell of a lot more. Watching mech and protosses breaking terran mech is so freaking amazing.
Khan's undefeated in BW sets so far. I guess they're the only team that still practice the game.
From what I watched, I would say it kinda reverse in SC2. Protoss is the one who set up the mech ball, in most part, and Terran is the one who has to break it.
But the match up has changed quite a bit during the last GSL seasons. Well, at least for P(arting) V T.
EDIT: when asked who he wants to thanked the most, he said "those fans who cheer for you who, even thought you never appear on lineups, they are the ones that make you feel great when you win".
On June 03 2012 15:54 J1.au wrote: I like how you guys always have to share that you're leaving when SC2 comes on. It's a bit old now.
honestly your comment is a little insensitive considering the current state of BW
I don't think insensitive is the right word here.
It mostly certainly isn't. I don't even enjoy SC2 that much, I'm a BW guy through and through. I just find their constant "oh time to go" posts annoying.
On June 03 2012 15:48 baubo wrote: If SC2 had BW's terran mech ball, I'd like the game hell of a lot more. Watching mech and protosses breaking terran mech is so freaking amazing.
Khan's undefeated in BW sets so far. I guess they're the only team that still practice the game.
From what I watched, I would say it kinda reverse in SC2. Protoss is the one who set up the mech ball, in most part, and Terran is the one who has to break it.
But the match up has changed quite a bit during the last GSL seasons. Well, at least for P(arting) V T.
Very different. What makes terran mech ball unique is the fact that it's about positional nature of it. It's damn near invincible when seiged, vulture surrounded with mines. But very vulnerable when on the move or lacking protection.
Protoss SC2 ball can just roll around and destroy stuff.
Second CC, off a jumping marine and imba firebat Flash vs Dear, this reminds me of Jumping marine going through the side Depots can lower and raise? Did not know that
Kop's jumping marine doesn't do very much, scouts the nat nexus warping in Two more gates added for Bisu Two probes, and the probes surround it and the jumping marine dies Fact being added now, off two rax CC floating to the nat imba gates are up
Two techology add ons, and one reactor on the rax Manner pylon at the terran's third base, gets killed off no problem Two bunkers at the top of the ramp for Kop +1 attack upgrading for terran Forge and citadel warping in
On June 03 2012 16:01 X10A wrote: Second CC, off a jumping marine and imba firebat Flash vs Dear, this reminds me of Jumping marine going through the side Depots can lower and raise? Did not know that
Put a grin on me. I remembered the WTF moment when I see that before the beta. (and also cannon could move...)
Bisu trying to bait the bio army in, so his groundArbiters can ramp stasis the bio onto the high ground Zealot leg upgrad being researched, and templar archives warping in
Ramp stasis behind the bio force Bisu's units are dying, archon is trapped behind the dtGoon's, not going to make much of a difference Probes pulled, and the bio is going to rip through the rest
On June 03 2012 16:05 Lightwip wrote: It's the classic "one engagement and it's over" of SC2.
? It was a timing build from the Terran and Bisu failed to respond properly?
He needed to chrono out Immortals and just split the army on the ramp with forcefields but instead Bisu just let the bio come up for free. 4 Medivacs and +1 beats that army for free as you saw.
On June 03 2012 15:42 o[twist] wrote: more than any season i can remember, people seem to grin when they lose this PL. do you think it's a sign they don't take it too seriously this round either
yes paralyze's smiles there were a little disturbing, i don't think that happened so much in the past
i think i saw it earlier today too, and i can remember it from other players. even flash a few nights ago after lizzy lost the ace match
On June 03 2012 16:01 X10A wrote: Second CC, off a jumping marine and imba firebat Flash vs Dear, this reminds me of Jumping marine going through the side Depots can lower and raise? Did not know that
Put a grin on me. I remembered the WTF moment when I see that before the beta. (and also cannon could move...)
Ahhhhhhh, legend falls.
I would've shit bricks if I saw the moving cannons Flying pylons blow my mind away
On June 03 2012 16:01 X10A wrote: Second CC, off a jumping marine and imba firebat Flash vs Dear, this reminds me of Jumping marine going through the side Depots can lower and raise? Did not know that
Put a grin on me. I remembered the WTF moment when I see that before the beta. (and also cannon could move...)
Ahhhhhhh, legend falls.
I would've shit bricks if I saw the moving cannons Flying pylons blow my mind away
Walking Sunken surprised me at first, but the flying medic duality healing dropship (I like to call it the medicship) blow my mind the most.
On June 03 2012 16:05 Veldril wrote: Not enough Immortal, too many observer.
The problem is that he missed the forcefields on his ramps.
That too. But I think he added Citadel too fast after building the Robo. Getting one observer out should be enough in this timing and adding the rest to Immortal should make him be able to hold that push.
On June 03 2012 16:07 Jindo wrote: what happen? What did Bisu do wrong? I dont understand SC2
Should have used force field to keep Terran units on low ground, buying him time to warp in more units and get into a good position. I'm sure there were other timing mistakes with tech but I'm not a Protoss player, so not 100% sure.
On June 03 2012 16:01 X10A wrote: Second CC, off a jumping marine and imba firebat Flash vs Dear, this reminds me of Jumping marine going through the side Depots can lower and raise? Did not know that
Put a grin on me. I remembered the WTF moment when I see that before the beta. (and also cannon could move...)
Ahhhhhhh, legend falls.
I would've shit bricks if I saw the moving cannons Flying pylons blow my mind away
Walking Sunken surprised me at first, but the flying medic duality healing dropship (I like to call it the medicship) blow my mind the most.
Stork vs Zero, I couldn't believe my eyes at all of the walking sunkens Next thing you'll know, tanks can move while sieged
On June 03 2012 16:07 Jindo wrote: what happen? What did Bisu do wrong? I dont understand SC2
His leg speed was a tad bit late. That archon being in front tanking at the start would have made a big difference too. He also should have target fired the medivacs asap as their healing out dpses stalkers. If terran kites then bio takes next to no damage from pure gateway toss army without leg speed. If terran had hit 20 secs or so late Bisu would have held that easy.
Its fine though tosses in SC2 struggled for a long time before they figured out how to hold that. Its a really strong push and has a whole bunch of variations that can insta kill toss if his response is not spot on.
On June 03 2012 16:01 X10A wrote: Second CC, off a jumping marine and imba firebat Flash vs Dear, this reminds me of Jumping marine going through the side Depots can lower and raise? Did not know that
Put a grin on me. I remembered the WTF moment when I see that before the beta. (and also cannon could move...)
Ahhhhhhh, legend falls.
I would've shit bricks if I saw the moving cannons Flying pylons blow my mind away
Walking Sunken surprised me at first, but the flying medic duality healing dropship (I like to call it the medicship) blow my mind the most.
Stork vs Zero, I couldn't believe my eyes at all of the walking sunkens Next thing you'll know, tanks can move while sieged
On June 03 2012 16:07 Jindo wrote: what happen? What did Bisu do wrong? I dont understand SC2
He botched the forcefields (didn't block the ramp) and didn't focus fire down the medivacs, in the engagement itself. He didn't micro at all, actually. There were idle stalkers. Also, half his zealots attacked and died, and then the rest of the zealots showed up and died. I wasn't paying that much attention to the game as a whole, to see what errors he made before the battle.
Honestly, Bisu handled the engagement badly, but he shouldn't have allowed the engagement to happen at all, because he didn't have any splash. He biggest mistake was letting Terran run up the ramp in the first place.
On June 03 2012 16:07 Jindo wrote: what happen? What did Bisu do wrong? I dont understand SC2
Should have used force field to keep Terran units on low ground, buying him time to warp in more units and get into a good position. I'm sure there were other timing mistakes with tech but I'm not a Protoss player, so not 100% sure.
Bisu really skimped on sentries I thought. teched too fast and got caught with not enough stuff to deal with the first medivac pressure.
On June 03 2012 16:07 Jindo wrote: what happen? What did Bisu do wrong? I dont understand SC2
Should have used force field to keep Terran units on low ground, buying him time to warp in more units and get into a good position. I'm sure there were other timing mistakes with tech but I'm not a Protoss player, so not 100% sure.
Bisu really skimped on sentries I thought. teched too fast and got caught with not enough stuff to deal with the first medivac pressure.
That would have been fine if he knew how to engage in the first place, you can kind of hold that timing fairly well provided you know how to play, but Bisu does not.
On June 03 2012 16:07 Jindo wrote: what happen? What did Bisu do wrong? I dont understand SC2
Should have used force field to keep Terran units on low ground, buying him time to warp in more units and get into a good position. I'm sure there were other timing mistakes with tech but I'm not a Protoss player, so not 100% sure.
Bisu really skimped on sentries I thought. teched too fast and got caught with not enough stuff to deal with the first medivac pressure.
If his archon and leg speed were in time and he had focussed fired the medivacs, he would have held that easy. Everything was just a little late then it should have been and medivacs out heal stalker dps.
On June 03 2012 16:05 Lightwip wrote: It's the classic "one engagement and it's over" of SC2.
Not sure I would use that game as an example of that...
most SCtoo games are defined by a single battle, so it's very boring.
Not really. Just the kespa players dont really know how to harass yet
Are you counting harass as battles lol?
Sure. Non pl games have tons of side battles, medi drops, pressure and pulling back to expand etc. It's only in pl where the majority of players just sit still and engage in 1 battle. That's fine given how much they have played so far.
I think people are getting a wrong impression of SC2 from these games.
You know how bad these guys are playing BW in these PL games? You guys keep telling me that BW is normally not boring like they have been recently. Well, it's basically that times 10 for the SC2 games. They really are new to the game and bad.
On June 03 2012 16:05 Lightwip wrote: It's the classic "one engagement and it's over" of SC2.
Not sure I would use that game as an example of that...
most SCtoo games are defined by a single battle, so it's very boring.
Not really. Just the kespa players dont really know how to harass yet
Are you counting harass as battles lol?
It really depends on the quality of the players. PL games are generally "one player makes a huge mistake", or "both players make lots of medium mistakes", with the latter games being more interesting.
On June 03 2012 16:05 Lightwip wrote: It's the classic "one engagement and it's over" of SC2.
Not sure I would use that game as an example of that...
most SCtoo games are defined by a single battle, so it's very boring.
Not really. Just the kespa players dont really know how to harass yet
Are you counting harass as battles lol?
I think he means that without harass, the players are just macroing in their bases and moving out for a single timing. Since the Kespa players are very weak to timings right now, games just tend to end.
What we see at the highest level in SC2 right now (GSL for example) is much more harassment, smaller engagements, army trades, etc. There are situations where, say, a Protoss will just A-move and kill a Zerg, but it's usually the culmination of a number of mistakes/failed offensives from the Zerg.
On June 03 2012 16:07 Jindo wrote: what happen? What did Bisu do wrong? I dont understand SC2
Should have used force field to keep Terran units on low ground, buying him time to warp in more units and get into a good position. I'm sure there were other timing mistakes with tech but I'm not a Protoss player, so not 100% sure.
Bisu really skimped on sentries I thought. teched too fast and got caught with not enough stuff to deal with the first medivac pressure.
If his archon and leg speed were in time and he had focussed fired the medivacs, he would have held that easy. Everything was just a little late then it should have been and medivacs out heal stalker dps.
No they weren't. If you look at the engagement there was obviously no charge at first. And Bisu had a zealot-heavy army. How the hell was he suppose to target medivacs when he had almost no stalkers?
On June 03 2012 16:15 SarcasmMonster wrote: I think people are getting a wrong impression of SC2 from these games.
You know how bad these guys are playing BW in these PL games? You guys keep telling me that BW is normally not boring like they have been recently. Well, it's basically that times 10 for the SC2 games. They really are new to the game and bad.
On June 03 2012 16:05 Lightwip wrote: It's the classic "one engagement and it's over" of SC2.
Not sure I would use that game as an example of that...
most SCtoo games are defined by a single battle, so it's very boring.
Not really. Just the kespa players dont really know how to harass yet
Are you counting harass as battles lol?
I think he means that without harass, the players are just macroing in their bases and moving out for a single timing. Since the Kespa players are very weak to timings right now, games just tend to end.
What we see at the highest level in SC2 right now (GSL for example) is much more harassment, smaller engagements, army trades, etc. There are situations where, say, a Protoss will just A-move and kill a Zerg, but it's usually the culmination of a number of mistakes/failed offensives from the Zerg.
Good on you for actually understanding my Q. I cbf responding because WHOAAAA STORK VS FANTASY
On June 03 2012 16:07 Jindo wrote: what happen? What did Bisu do wrong? I dont understand SC2
Should have used force field to keep Terran units on low ground, buying him time to warp in more units and get into a good position. I'm sure there were other timing mistakes with tech but I'm not a Protoss player, so not 100% sure.
Bisu really skimped on sentries I thought. teched too fast and got caught with not enough stuff to deal with the first medivac pressure.
That would have been fine if he knew how to engage in the first place, you can kind of hold that timing fairly well provided you know how to play, but Bisu does not.
How would he engage? He had no charge, no AoE, few sentries, and had to defend two entrance to his natural without the benefit of constant scouting the way Kop could. His timing was obviously off in terms of either tech or gateway count to hold that off.
On June 03 2012 16:15 SarcasmMonster wrote: I think people are getting a wrong impression of SC2 from these games.
You know how bad these guys are playing BW in these PL games? You guys keep telling me that BW is normally not boring like they have been recently. Well, it's basically that times 10 for the SC2 games. They really are new to the game and bad.
You know, even D+ BW games are fun to watch.
That's arguable. I was c- and i thought my games were shit =(
On June 03 2012 16:15 SarcasmMonster wrote: I think people are getting a wrong impression of SC2 from these games.
You know how bad these guys are playing BW in these PL games? You guys keep telling me that BW is normally not boring like they have been recently. Well, it's basically that times 10 for the SC2 games. They really are new to the game and bad.
On June 03 2012 16:15 SarcasmMonster wrote: I think people are getting a wrong impression of SC2 from these games.
You know how bad these guys are playing BW in these PL games? You guys keep telling me that BW is normally not boring like they have been recently. Well, it's basically that times 10 for the SC2 games. They really are new to the game and bad.
You know, even D+ BW games are fun to watch.
I'm not sure how D+ compares to Korean pros, but I've not been impressed with BW at all from these PL games. They are mostly boring, one-sided, and cheesy (especially the Zergs).
My point is that it would be unfair to judge BW by these PL games. It would be especially unfair to judge SC2 from these games since they very little experience with the new game.
On June 03 2012 16:15 SarcasmMonster wrote: I think people are getting a wrong impression of SC2 from these games.
You know how bad these guys are playing BW in these PL games? You guys keep telling me that BW is normally not boring like they have been recently. Well, it's basically that times 10 for the SC2 games. They really are new to the game and bad.
Probe scouts three marines on the left hand side of the map DT building on the way Fantasy expanding Imba gates are done 3 scvs pulled out Mass marines too dtGoon's are out of position Nexus warping in for Stork also
One dtGoon falls, the second is about too also DT building is really close to finishing Ramp Stasis on the ramp, second groundArbter, but how much gas is he going to have for DT's?
On June 03 2012 16:15 SarcasmMonster wrote: I think people are getting a wrong impression of SC2 from these games.
You know how bad these guys are playing BW in these PL games? You guys keep telling me that BW is normally not boring like they have been recently. Well, it's basically that times 10 for the SC2 games. They really are new to the game and bad.
You know, even D+ BW games are fun to watch.
I'm not sure how D+ compares to Korean pros,
D+ = Gold League
I thought D+ is like Master lol? Edit: no not master the one below that whatever it is/.
On June 03 2012 16:15 SarcasmMonster wrote: I think people are getting a wrong impression of SC2 from these games.
You know how bad these guys are playing BW in these PL games? You guys keep telling me that BW is normally not boring like they have been recently. Well, it's basically that times 10 for the SC2 games. They really are new to the game and bad.
You know, even D+ BW games are fun to watch.
no they're not...
But you're a Flash fan! For you, boring=fun. Vice versa must be true too.
On June 03 2012 16:15 SarcasmMonster wrote: I think people are getting a wrong impression of SC2 from these games.
You know how bad these guys are playing BW in these PL games? You guys keep telling me that BW is normally not boring like they have been recently. Well, it's basically that times 10 for the SC2 games. They really are new to the game and bad.
You know, even D+ BW games are fun to watch.
I'm not sure how D+ compares to Korean pros, but I've not been impressed with BW at all from these PL games. They are mostly boring, one-sided, and cheesy (especially the Zergs).
My point is that it would be unfair to judge BW by these PL games. It would be especially unfair to judge SC2 from these games since they very little experience with the new game.
My point is, SC2 should be able to deliver at a lower level of play because BW does to a pretty good extent. It does not.
Another scan, two DT's wasted without doinglasting damage Starport is on the way, as is stimpack and +1 attack Three groundArbiters and some zealots roaming around by FFantasy's nat Pretty good rampstasis, most marines go down Bunker falls
On June 03 2012 16:15 SarcasmMonster wrote: I think people are getting a wrong impression of SC2 from these games.
You know how bad these guys are playing BW in these PL games? You guys keep telling me that BW is normally not boring like they have been recently. Well, it's basically that times 10 for the SC2 games. They really are new to the game and bad.
You know, even D+ BW games are fun to watch.
I'm not sure how D+ compares to Korean pros, but I've not been impressed with BW at all from these PL games. They are mostly boring, one-sided, and cheesy (especially the Zergs).
My point is that it would be unfair to judge BW by these PL games. It would be especially unfair to judge SC2 from these games since they very little experience with the new game.
My point is, SC2 should be able to deliver at a lower level of play because BW does to a pretty good extent. It does not.
On June 03 2012 16:15 SarcasmMonster wrote: I think people are getting a wrong impression of SC2 from these games.
You know how bad these guys are playing BW in these PL games? You guys keep telling me that BW is normally not boring like they have been recently. Well, it's basically that times 10 for the SC2 games. They really are new to the game and bad.
You know, even D+ BW games are fun to watch.
no they're not...
But you're a Flash fan! For you, boring=fun. Vice versa must be true too.
On June 03 2012 16:15 SarcasmMonster wrote: I think people are getting a wrong impression of SC2 from these games.
You know how bad these guys are playing BW in these PL games? You guys keep telling me that BW is normally not boring like they have been recently. Well, it's basically that times 10 for the SC2 games. They really are new to the game and bad.
You know, even D+ BW games are fun to watch.
I'm not sure how D+ compares to Korean pros, but I've not been impressed with BW at all from these PL games. They are mostly boring, one-sided, and cheesy (especially the Zergs).
My point is that it would be unfair to judge BW by these PL games. It would be especially unfair to judge SC2 from these games since they very little experience with the new game.
My point is, SC2 should be able to deliver at a lower level of play because BW does to a pretty good extent. It does not.
It does, actually. The problem with PL is that these players are not "even matches" for each other. The skill range is so wide that one player seems to dominate, or one player makes a huge mistake that even a plat wouldn't make (like Fantasy lowering his supply depot just now..).
I thought there were going to be more gosu games, not really looking forward to the Kespa/MLG event as much now. Edit: Oh yeah, that was a nice attack from Stork, I thought it was going to go 2-3 base, wasn't expecting an attack.
On June 03 2012 16:15 SarcasmMonster wrote: I think people are getting a wrong impression of SC2 from these games.
You know how bad these guys are playing BW in these PL games? You guys keep telling me that BW is normally not boring like they have been recently. Well, it's basically that times 10 for the SC2 games. They really are new to the game and bad.
You know, even D+ BW games are fun to watch.
I'm not sure how D+ compares to Korean pros, but I've not been impressed with BW at all from these PL games. They are mostly boring, one-sided, and cheesy (especially the Zergs).
My point is that it would be unfair to judge BW by these PL games. It would be especially unfair to judge SC2 from these games since they very little experience with the new game.
My point is, SC2 should be able to deliver at a lower level of play because BW does to a pretty good extent. It does not.
On June 03 2012 16:28 Arceus wrote: wtf lol I thought that attack was rather suicidal
no? fantasy pulled scvs way too late those workers needed to be pulled before the fight even started and they needed to be hugging the bunker.
Stork runs up the ramp with a bunch of zealots + 2 sentries, and it appears that he breaks thru the bunker defense without losing any unit, plus constantly rallying in more into gg
On June 03 2012 16:15 SarcasmMonster wrote: I think people are getting a wrong impression of SC2 from these games.
You know how bad these guys are playing BW in these PL games? You guys keep telling me that BW is normally not boring like they have been recently. Well, it's basically that times 10 for the SC2 games. They really are new to the game and bad.
You know, even D+ BW games are fun to watch.
no they're not...
But you're a Flash fan! For you, boring=fun. Vice versa must be true too.
On June 03 2012 16:21 SarcasmMonster wrote:
On June 03 2012 16:18 Lightwip wrote:
On June 03 2012 16:15 SarcasmMonster wrote: I think people are getting a wrong impression of SC2 from these games.
You know how bad these guys are playing BW in these PL games? You guys keep telling me that BW is normally not boring like they have been recently. Well, it's basically that times 10 for the SC2 games. They really are new to the game and bad.
You know, even D+ BW games are fun to watch.
I'm not sure how D+ compares to Korean pros, but I've not been impressed with BW at all from these PL games. They are mostly boring, one-sided, and cheesy (especially the Zergs).
My point is that it would be unfair to judge BW by these PL games. It would be especially unfair to judge SC2 from these games since they very little experience with the new game.
My point is, SC2 should be able to deliver at a lower level of play because BW does to a pretty good extent. It does not.
It does, actually. The problem with PL is that these players are not "even matches" for each other. The skill range is so wide that one player seems to dominate, or one player makes a huge mistake that even a plat wouldn't make (like Fantasy lowering his supply depot just now..).
To be precise, this is the kind of huge mistake Fantasy would always make even in BW.
On June 03 2012 16:31 aznball123 wrote: I thought there were going to be more gosu games, not really looking forward to the Kespa/MLG event as much now. Edit: Oh yeah, that was a nice attack from Stork, I thought it was going to go 2-3 base, wasn't expecting an attack.
I would at least look out for Jaedong, Flash and Zero. They already showed some potential.
On June 03 2012 16:31 aznball123 wrote: I thought there were going to be more gosu games, not really looking forward to the Kespa/MLG event as much now. Edit: Oh yeah, that was a nice attack from Stork, I thought it was going to go 2-3 base, wasn't expecting an attack.
I would at least look out for Jaedong, Flash and Zero. They already showed some potential.
On June 03 2012 16:28 Arceus wrote: wtf lol I thought that attack was rather suicidal
no? fantasy pulled scvs way too late those workers needed to be pulled before the fight even started and they needed to be hugging the bunker.
Stork runs up the ramp with a bunch of zealots + 2 sentries, and it appears that he breaks thru the bunker defense without losing any unit, plus constantly rallying in more into gg
He walled the marines so Fantasy couldn't micro, workers weren't pulled to cover the bunker from force fields, Fantasy lost as soon as he lost the bunker.
On June 03 2012 16:31 aznball123 wrote: I thought there were going to be more gosu games, not really looking forward to the Kespa/MLG event as much now. Edit: Oh yeah, that was a nice attack from Stork, I thought it was going to go 2-3 base, wasn't expecting an attack.
I would at least look out for Jaedong, Flash and Zero. They already showed some potential.
Effort too. He impressed me the most.
effort is not going to mlg anaheim. for that matter, neither is zero. unless you meant to say soulkey
On June 03 2012 16:31 aznball123 wrote: I thought there were going to be more gosu games, not really looking forward to the Kespa/MLG event as much now. Edit: Oh yeah, that was a nice attack from Stork, I thought it was going to go 2-3 base, wasn't expecting an attack.
I would at least look out for Jaedong, Flash and Zero. They already showed some potential.
On June 03 2012 16:31 aznball123 wrote: I thought there were going to be more gosu games, not really looking forward to the Kespa/MLG event as much now. Edit: Oh yeah, that was a nice attack from Stork, I thought it was going to go 2-3 base, wasn't expecting an attack.
I would at least look out for Jaedong, Flash and Zero. They already showed some potential.
Effort too. He impressed me the most.
Effort is not in the Kespa expo tournament at MLG Anaheim. Kinda sad since he is really good in both games.
I like Fantasy's control, he looks like he can be really good once he correctly evaluates what the units can and can't do. He just thought Stork can't mount any offense but 1 base 4-gate is still viable especially when you force a cancel on the nexus.
On June 03 2012 16:36 Judicator wrote: I like Fantasy's control, he looks like he can be really good once he correctly evaluates what the units can and can't do. He just thought Stork can't mount any offense but 1 base 4-gate is still viable especially when you force a cancel on the nexus.
On June 03 2012 16:36 Judicator wrote: I like Fantasy's control, he looks like he can be really good once he correctly evaluates what the units can and can't do. He just thought Stork can't mount any offense but 1 base 4-gate is still viable especially when you force a cancel on the nexus.
Bisu on the other hand looks lost as fuck.
Both realllllly need to work on SC2.
I mean at least it's really basic stuff because it's obvious the control is there, they're just thinking that their units can do things that the units simply can't.
On June 03 2012 16:36 Judicator wrote: I like Fantasy's control, he looks like he can be really good once he correctly evaluates what the units can and can't do. He just thought Stork can't mount any offense but 1 base 4-gate is still viable especially when you force a cancel on the nexus.
Bisu on the other hand looks lost as fuck.
Both realllllly need to work on SC2.
It's wierd that Flash Jaedong and Stork have so far looked much better than Bisu and Fantasy. Somethin up with the skt1 sc2 regime?
I'm, right now, watching GSL Open Season 1 game two (Maka v. Bev, TvP). I can't believe how similar at least game 1 is to what I've seen in PL. The game knowledge is literally at square one right now for many BW pros. I really look forward to these guys getting better, I just hope it doesn't take two years!
That game remind me of what a Fantasy vs Stork game look like in the early part of Fantasy's career. Fantasy had a nice build, caught Stork off guard, and did damage. But he screws up the execution(in this case moving into the main when he had the chance, and Stork recovers and use his superior game sense to win.
Stork seems to have a good understanding of the game, knowing Fantasy's weakness at that point in time and lacking bunkers. I think this sort of thing will allow him to transition well, assuming he cares enough about SC2 to continue practice it full-time.
Fantasy wasn't probably aware of that timing window and didn't know how to approach that particular situation (the game was a lot closer than he thought it was since he didn't find the forward pylon or the probe associated with it. You see top level players accounting for the number of roaming probes on the map and almost all of them would have at least sent a marine to that tower in the middle. Like literally Fantasy was ahead if he picked up on the forward pylons on the retreat home but he didn't and Stork effectively shrunk the map size into half with protoss warpgate tech.
On June 03 2012 16:36 Judicator wrote: I like Fantasy's control, he looks like he can be really good once he correctly evaluates what the units can and can't do. He just thought Stork can't mount any offense but 1 base 4-gate is still viable especially when you force a cancel on the nexus.
Bisu on the other hand looks lost as fuck.
Both realllllly need to work on SC2.
It's wierd that Flash Jaedong and Stork have so far looked much better than Bisu and Fantasy. Somethin up with the skt1 sc2 regime?
The PL finals set them back a fair bit. Who would practice for an inferior game when the most important thing is to win the last real BW tournament? Flash is younger and a terran, so there's that.
On June 03 2012 16:41 densha wrote: I'm, right now, watching GSL Open Season 1 game two (Maka v. Bev, TvP). I can't believe how similar at least game 1 is to what I've seen in PL. The game knowledge is literally at square one right now for many BW pros. I really look forward to these guys getting better, I just hope it doesn't take two years!
They don't really have two years to get better... Current SC2 pro already have like 2 years ahead of practice so they really need to speed up a lot of things to catch up. But I think they can speed up the process.
Hiring SC2 coach (like Ryu Won for Woongjin and Cezanne for Team 8) would help making them understand the game faster because the coaches already have the knowledge and simply need to teach them. With the amount of practice they currently undergo right now, they would be able to catch up fast. That's it, if they have the right coach.
On June 03 2012 16:36 Judicator wrote: I like Fantasy's control, he looks like he can be really good once he correctly evaluates what the units can and can't do. He just thought Stork can't mount any offense but 1 base 4-gate is still viable especially when you force a cancel on the nexus.
Bisu on the other hand looks lost as fuck.
Both realllllly need to work on SC2.
It's wierd that Flash Jaedong and Stork have so far looked much better than Bisu and Fantasy. Somethin up with the skt1 sc2 regime?
The PL finals set them back a fair bit. Who would practice for an inferior game when the most important thing is to win the last real BW tournament? Flash is younger and a terran, so there's that.
On June 03 2012 16:46 SarcasmMonster wrote: Light vs Skyhigh is still the SC2 PL game to beat in terms of entertainment.
I don't even think that's the most entertaining TvT. The one where Fantasy played against someone was the funniest game by far.
I liked M18M vs RorO because it was basically stupid shit somehow winning a game. I think someone said that losing to that strategy is the equivalent of getting Stoved.
On June 03 2012 16:41 densha wrote: I'm, right now, watching GSL Open Season 1 game two (Maka v. Bev, TvP). I can't believe how similar at least game 1 is to what I've seen in PL. The game knowledge is literally at square one right now for many BW pros. I really look forward to these guys getting better, I just hope it doesn't take two years!
They don't really have two years to get better... Current SC2 pro already have like 2 years ahead of practice so they really need to speed up a lot of things to catch up. But I think they can speed up the process.
Hiring SC2 coach (like Ryu Won for Woongjin and Cezanne for Team 8) would help making them understand the game faster because the coaches already have the knowledge and simply need to teach them. With the amount of practice they currently undergo right now, they would be able to catch up fast. That's it, if they have the right coach.
Also Hots coming at the end of this year or early 2013 ( assuming Flash dosen't destroy the world in december ), they can catch up then, it gonna be a half restart for everyone
The difference between GSL season one and the play now is at least the players now have people to learn from. GSL season 1 they had no one so it took two years to reach where they are now
On June 03 2012 20:05 ProxyKnoxy wrote: Wow.. Bisu just sort of died. I'm not really sure where his build was going.
It looks like he just robo for observer and was going to go chargelot and maybe tech to storm on 2 base. He overteched and didnt stop and make a couple immortals to hold a push that he could have guessed was coming.
On June 03 2012 16:15 SarcasmMonster wrote: I think people are getting a wrong impression of SC2 from these games.
You know how bad these guys are playing BW in these PL games? You guys keep telling me that BW is normally not boring like they have been recently. Well, it's basically that times 10 for the SC2 games. They really are new to the game and bad.
You know, even D+ BW games are fun to watch.
I'm not sure how D+ compares to Korean pros,
D+ = Gold League
I thought D+ is like Master lol? Edit: no not master the one below that whatever it is/.
Im D+ and masters on NA, but then again us aussies play at korean times so yeah. The one below is diamond.
On June 03 2012 16:27 X10A wrote: Another scan, two DT's wasted without doinglasting damage
The thing you have to remember in SC2 is that using a scan is more significant. Forcing that many scans prevents MULEs which adds up to a lost of list mineral income, so those DTs actually did more lasting damage than you might think.
On June 04 2012 08:20 greggy wrote: FFFFFFFFFFFFf if only fantasy built a second bunker and pulled scvs earlier >_>
If that happened, Stork would've still had a DT running around. Don't know if the second bunker and additional SCVs would've won him the game.
He had a turret and scans saved at that point. A second bunker and scvs to repair would have held quite easily.
If Fantasy had any idea that Stork could've counterattacked after his nexus cancel, he'd have probably put up 3 bunkers just to be safe. It's a normal counter and one that a more experienced player would defend with bunkers simply out of habit. Then again, it's possible Fantasy overestimated the power of his marines against guardian shielded protoss army. It's not a big deal. It took Fantasy like 3 years to understand how to use marines correctly in BW.
On June 03 2012 16:07 Jindo wrote: what happen? What did Bisu do wrong? I dont understand SC2
It seems that right now Bisu doesn't understand SC2 as little as you do . That's a bit discouraging to see.
His control was actually horrendous. Why did he let the whole terran army enter his natural? Why didn't he then split it up. Why were many of his stalkers out of range and couldn't shoot. He was also teching up a bit too fast. But alas.....I hope they will hire MC or some other crazy good protoss to teach them.
On June 04 2012 21:03 disciple wrote: I really dont know why Bisu keeps practicing BW, he has no reason to play this game any more, especially if he wants to be of some help for his team
Sad but true If Bisu plays like this I'm not even going to get to see him play at MLG since his first game vs Clam is on a premium stream and playing like this he's going to lose badly.
On June 04 2012 08:20 greggy wrote: FFFFFFFFFFFFf if only fantasy built a second bunker and pulled scvs earlier >_>
If that happened, Stork would've still had a DT running around. Don't know if the second bunker and additional SCVs would've won him the game.
He had a turret and scans saved at that point. A second bunker and scvs to repair would have held quite easily.
If Fantasy had any idea that Stork could've counterattacked after his nexus cancel, he'd have probably put up 3 bunkers just to be safe. It's a normal counter and one that a more experienced player would defend with bunkers simply out of habit. Then again, it's possible Fantasy overestimated the power of his marines against guardian shielded protoss army. It's not a big deal. It took Fantasy like 3 years to understand how to use marines correctly in BW.
when did this happen??? thought it was still an ongoing struggle??
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