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Lurker Hold is a bug.
There is no debating this fact, it is a bug because no other unit in this game stops firing simply from being on the hold position. Hold position is not supposed to stop a unit from firing, it's to stop the unit from moving. Since burrowed Lurkers are already stationary, they don't have a hold command when they are burrowed since there is no need for one. "hold" was never meant to facilitate non-attacking.
The real debate is whether or not you want to ban it from your tournament as it does add a VERY SLIGHT something more strategical to the game. I'm sure that's why WGT allows it, since the bug doesn't detract that much from the game.
It's up to you, if you want to ban all known bugs for the sake of consistency in your policy and play it the way the creators wanted you to play it, then by all means ban lurker hold as it is a bug. If you want to be lenient, then go ahead and allow it. It's really not that big of a deal.
But for everyone here who's saying that it was intended, you are wrong because it is definitely a bug.
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Okay, according to research, arguments and majority vote, I will allow stop lurk bug. Now stop complaining -_-.
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I would have to have some doubts about your statement that the bug is not intended by Blizzard. If it is not intended by Blizzard, the lurker hold "bug" would most likely have been patched by Blizzard a long time ago.
It's true that originally, lurker hold was not intended. However, when the "bug" was found, it added a new dimension of strategy to the game and I think Blizzard agrees with it to the point where they've actually intended on keeping the bug, due to the lack of any effort to patch the bug when it could have most likely been very easily patched a long time ago.
I can see why allied mines, stacked peons, and turret stalling has not been patched, simply because patching these would be incredibly difficult, and would most likely involved some major rehash to the unit AI system. However if Blizzard intended the game to be lurker-hold-free once the bug was found, they could have easily made a patch to fix this a long time ago when the bug was first discovered.
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On November 10 2005 23:35 tfeign wrote:
I would have to have some doubts about your statement that the bug is not intended by Blizzard. If it is not intended by Blizzard, the lurker hold "bug" would most likely have been patched by Blizzard a long time ago.
It's true that originally, lurker hold was not intended. However, when the "bug" was found, it added a new dimension of strategy to the game and I think Blizzard agrees with it to the point where they've actually intended on keeping the bug, due to the lack of any effort to patch the bug when it could have most likely been very easily patched a long time ago.
I can see why allied mines, stacked peons, and turret stalling has not been patched, simply because patching these would be incredibly difficult, and would most likely involved some major rehash to the unit AI system. However if Blizzard intended the game to be lurker-hold-free once the bug was found, they could have easily made a patch to fix this a long time ago when the bug was first discovered.
Honestly not to be rude, but you'd have to be an idiot to assume Blizzard "intended" for you to hold position with another unit selected to prevent your lurker from attacking. At most it is a non-game breaking bug with the unintended side effect of making StarCraft more interesting, you can at least admit that.
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Would it be any different if someone just repeatedly hit S in order to emulate Hold-Lurker? Would that be wrong too?
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On November 08 2005 19:32 mnm wrote:http://www.sclegacy.com/showthread.php?t=774Every person will receive one raffle ticket with a chance to win an nVidia GeForce 6600GT OC graphics card (a $250 value). Chances to win are 1 in 200.
6600 GT is not worth $250 
GL in that tourney :D
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On November 10 2005 21:03 XG3 wrote:
Lurker Hold is a bug.
There is no debating this fact, it is a bug because no other unit in this game stops firing simply from being on the hold position. Hold position is not supposed to stop a unit from firing, it's to stop the unit from moving. Since burrowed Lurkers are already stationary, they don't have a hold command when they are burrowed since there is no need for one. "hold" was never meant to facilitate non-attacking.
The real debate is whether or not you want to ban it from your tournament as it does add a VERY SLIGHT something more strategical to the game. I'm sure that's why WGT allows it, since the bug doesn't detract that much from the game.
It's up to you, if you want to ban all known bugs for the sake of consistency in your policy and play it the way the creators wanted you to play it, then by all means ban lurker hold as it is a bug. If you want to be lenient, then go ahead and allow it. It's really not that big of a deal.
But for everyone here who's saying that it was intended, you are wrong because it is definitely a bug.
No you're wrong.
Long story cut short, your theory is
"Hold Lurker is a bug because no other attacking units seize firing/attacking when it's in hold position."
You're basically assuming it is a bug because it is the 'only' unit that acts differently when it is in hold position.
Just because it is the minority, you can't argue that it is a bug. It obviously has different capabilities and functions since it is one of the few units added when expansion set was introduced and since it is the only unit that attacks from underground.
Your theory is only correct if lulker itself is a bug unit to start with.
Because it is the only attacking unit that does not hold by pressing h and since it is the only unit different it is a bug unit? hell no.
Probes and drones don't hold by pressing H, but they hold when selected with either overlords or attacking units therefore it is a bug? I don't think so. Different units require different commands, that's all.
Banning Hold lurkers is ridiculous. Every units are awarded with hold function, don't take that right away from lurkers which equally share the same right.
OGN had a discussion about it before and they concluded that hold lurkers should be allowed in tourney. They know 28975294542 times more about starcraft then some random WCG organisers.
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Forget about the word "bug" or "intended by blizzard or not". ANYTHING you do in game aside from using a secondary program is legal. Whether you use allied mines, hold lurker, float templar it doesn't matter. All are part of the game. And until a patch changes it thats just too bad. Therefore it is unfair to ban any of these since they are are all part of the game we know and love, Starcraft.
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Lurkers don't have a hold button because they're stuck in place when they can attack. I think I'm gonna go with the Blizzard employee's thoughts on this as opposed to someone who saw a discussion about it.
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you guys are morons if you think hold lurker isn't a bug.
Hold position does not stop things from attacking. Yet the idea is to stop a lurker from attacking, not to stop it from moving
It is however an accepted bug. You can stop with your "in REAL LIFE my science fiction video game unit would be able to do this!"
If you follow that completely retarded logic, then it isn't far fetched for <insert favorite race> to have developed a technology to make them see everything, therefore I can maphack
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On November 11 2005 00:39 XG3 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2005 23:35 tfeign wrote:
I would have to have some doubts about your statement that the bug is not intended by Blizzard. If it is not intended by Blizzard, the lurker hold "bug" would most likely have been patched by Blizzard a long time ago.
It's true that originally, lurker hold was not intended. However, when the "bug" was found, it added a new dimension of strategy to the game and I think Blizzard agrees with it to the point where they've actually intended on keeping the bug, due to the lack of any effort to patch the bug when it could have most likely been very easily patched a long time ago.
I can see why allied mines, stacked peons, and turret stalling has not been patched, simply because patching these would be incredibly difficult, and would most likely involved some major rehash to the unit AI system. However if Blizzard intended the game to be lurker-hold-free once the bug was found, they could have easily made a patch to fix this a long time ago when the bug was first discovered. Honestly not to be rude, but you'd have to be an idiot to assume Blizzard "intended" for you to hold position with another unit selected to prevent your lurker from attacking. At most it is a non-game breaking bug with the unintended side effect of making StarCraft more interesting, you can at least admit that.
Blizzard did NOT intend lurker hold originally.
But I cannot see why by any stretch it can be idiotic to assume that when the bug was discovered, Blizzard intended to keep it due to lack of any effort to patch it.
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Okay okay! stop argueing! MnM already said she will allow hold lurker, what are we doing here?! 
We should be discussing who's going to bring camera, beer, popcorn and other craps right now, it's a fun event that we should be happily anticipating, not shouting over. 
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mr happy man run if ur going could you email me or pm me ur email so i can keep a somewhat accurate count of people who are most likely going and/or interested and i can send you an email reminder before the event.
I also need help finding the latest and most accepted/bug free/etc versions of these maps to use at the tournament:
1.) Lost Temple 2.4
2.) Luna
3.) Neo Forbidden Zone
4.) Ride of Valkyries
5.) Nostalgia
6.) Neo Forte
Please link me or send it to me through email. I would much appreciate it. Thanks!
PS. I already stated my case on the bug thing and feel no need to reiterate. I still hold to my original opinion.
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On November 10 2005 21:03 XG3 wrote:
Lurker Hold is a bug.
There is no debating this fact, it is a bug because no other unit in this game stops firing simply from being on the hold position. Hold position is not supposed to stop a unit from firing, it's to stop the unit from moving. Since burrowed Lurkers are already stationary, they don't have a hold command when they are burrowed since there is no need for one. "hold" was never meant to facilitate non-attacking.
The real debate is whether or not you want to ban it from your tournament as it does add a VERY SLIGHT something more strategical to the game. I'm sure that's why WGT allows it, since the bug doesn't detract that much from the game.
It's up to you, if you want to ban all known bugs for the sake of consistency in your policy and play it the way the creators wanted you to play it, then by all means ban lurker hold as it is a bug. If you want to be lenient, then go ahead and allow it. It's really not that big of a deal.
But for everyone here who's saying that it was intended, you are wrong because it is definitely a bug.
IIRC, cloaked ghosts dont shoot when stopped or in hold position. This was built into the game to not give away the position of a cloaked ghost, because sometimes you don't want your opponent to know that the ghost is there so u can surprise them with a nuke without giving them extra warning by accidentally attacking.
the line of thinking is the same with hold lurkers, u dont want to let your opponent know they are there, so ur attack can be a surprise and not give them warning.
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On November 11 2005 12:04 88)WhyYouKickMyDog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2005 21:03 XG3 wrote:
Lurker Hold is a bug.
There is no debating this fact, it is a bug because no other unit in this game stops firing simply from being on the hold position. Hold position is not supposed to stop a unit from firing, it's to stop the unit from moving. Since burrowed Lurkers are already stationary, they don't have a hold command when they are burrowed since there is no need for one. "hold" was never meant to facilitate non-attacking.
The real debate is whether or not you want to ban it from your tournament as it does add a VERY SLIGHT something more strategical to the game. I'm sure that's why WGT allows it, since the bug doesn't detract that much from the game.
It's up to you, if you want to ban all known bugs for the sake of consistency in your policy and play it the way the creators wanted you to play it, then by all means ban lurker hold as it is a bug. If you want to be lenient, then go ahead and allow it. It's really not that big of a deal.
But for everyone here who's saying that it was intended, you are wrong because it is definitely a bug. IIRC, cloaked ghosts dont shoot when stopped or in hold position. This was built into the game to not give away the position of a cloaked ghost, because sometimes you don't want your opponent to know that the ghost is there so u can surprise them with a nuke without giving them extra warning by accidentally attacking. the line of thinking is the same with hold lurkers, u dont want to let your opponent know they are there, so ur attack can be a surprise and not give them warning.
Actually, cloaked ghosts attack in hold position
But if you don't put them on hold position, they don't acquire targets.
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I just wanted to inform you of the following updates regarding the tournament:
- We will be using the WGTour maps in the tournament. You have two weeks to practice! Here a link to the map pack that will be used: http://www.sclegacy.com/maps/SCL_1126_Tournament_Maps.zip
- We will be giving away goodies/raffle prizes. EVERYONE who participates in the tournament is guaranteed to walk away with something.
- We are allowing the hold lurk bug.
- If you wish to reserve a spot, you can pay the entry fee ahead of time. Use this link to do so: http://www.euphnet.com/paypal.php
If you have any questions, let me know.
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If hold lurker was meant, why did they make it so you have to have other units to hold them?
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Same reason why probes and scvs need other units to hold them.
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Well that should tip you off that holding position by selecting two different units is a bug. If they intended for probes and scvs to hold position, logically they would give them that command. I honestly can't comprehend your train of thought here that it isn't a bug.
Also, the concept some of you aren't grasping is that "hold position" has nothing to do with attacking. Hold position is meant to keep a unit stationary, as in not move even when provoked.
So if you stop and think about it, not only is Hold Lurker a bug, it is actually TWO BUGS IN ONE:
1) you are able to hold position by grouping it with another unit
2) your lurker doesn't attack for some reason while it's in hold position
It is such a blatant/obvious bug that I shall now give it SUPER-BUG status. Two wrongs don't make a right; two bugs do not make it not a bug. Everything points to it being a programming oversight that won't be fixed because it's not game breaking enough to warrant anyone's time or energy.
By the way, why is everyone so adamant about this being legal? Someone else pointed out that there is already a way to do this with "legal" game mechanics: by spamming "stop". Did you want hold lurker simply because it makes it easier for you to pull off? There is a difference between StarCraft and Warcraft III you know, I'll let you figure out what that is for yourself..
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On November 13 2005 02:02 XG3 wrote:
Well that should tip you off that holding position by selecting two different units is a bug. If they intended for probes and scvs to hold position, logically they would give them that command. I honestly can't comprehend your train of thought here that it isn't a bug.
Also, the concept some of you aren't grasping is that "hold position" has nothing to do with attacking. Hold position is meant to keep a unit stationary, as in not move even when provoked.
So if you stop and think about it, not only is Hold Lurker a bug, it is actually TWO BUGS IN ONE:
1) you are able to hold position by grouping it with another unit
2) your lurker doesn't attack for some reason while it's in hold position
It is such a blatant/obvious bug that I shall now give it SUPER-BUG status. Two wrongs don't make a right; two bugs do not make it not a bug. Everything points to it being a programming oversight that won't be fixed because it's not game breaking enough to warrant anyone's time or energy.
By the way, why is everyone so adamant about this being legal? Someone else pointed out that there is already a way to do this with "legal" game mechanics: by spamming "stop". Did you want hold lurker simply because it makes it easier for you to pull off? There is a difference between StarCraft and Warcraft III you know, I'll let you figure out what that is for yourself..
Well, since XG3 gives hold lurker super bug status debate OVER.
1) As said before, miners act in the same way. Do you think that hold probes should be banned?
2) Lurkers are different from every other unit in the game. Vastly different. Your line of reasoning is that since it acts differently from other units in hold position, then it is a bug. But it also acts differently when it's not on hold position.
I think the real debate is whether it IS (not was) intentionally allowed by blizzard, not because they're just too lazy to patch. And the only way to figure that out is to ask them.
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EPT
