On October 24 2011 09:40 Kiante wrote: Oke doke, skimmed the last few pages, here are my thoughts:
b) to the know it all dude who said he could provide examples then pussied out, lol at you. If you knew ANYTHING, you'd know that lots of pro builds are applicable at my level. Why you say? at pro level 9/10 pvt's are 1 rax expo (yes i made that figure up, please, go find 30 games to disprove me and provide vods lol) and at my level 9/10 games are 2 fac or fd. if *I* go 1 goon nexus, i die to both those builds. why? because my micro sucks balls. As a result i use a build that allows me to get more goons in time for those pushes, while skipping goons early on. Is it gimmicky? no. are you an idiot still? yes
good to see we have someone taking control here (me) now i'm off to do some uni shit and i'll be back later in time for my 3-0
I don't think I know everything, in fact I openly admit I don't know very much about the game.
Now, in time if you wish I can address your concerns about the VODS of 11 Nexus in PvT primarily on smaller maps. However, I'm not going to do that in the near future since its not that important and I don't feel like spending that much time on something unproductive.
Also, you won't die to an FD with the 1 Goon Expansion opening. You will have 4 Dragoons out just like with the 2 Gate Nexus Goon opening. The same holds true for a 2 Factory push. In fact, both openings hard counters a 2 Factory push. And if your micro management isn't good enough to hold an FD with 4 Dragoons, then you should practice it until your micro is good enough. You will not improve very rapidly if you never step outside of your comfort zone. At some point in their careers, every pro gamer had to step outside of their comfort zone so they could cut corners in games and have just enough units out to hold a push.
Glad I wasted my 500th post on you.
1. Depends on what type of 2fac
2. 1gate goon doesn't hard counter 2fac
I said the 2 Gateway Nexus Goon build that Bisu used on Alternative and the 1 Goon Nexus build all the professionals have been using since then counter 2 factory pushes. And there is no 2 Factory push that should kill it, otherise it would be used frequently.
There's a reason why Fantasy beat Jangbi with a 2fac on NBR. People still 2fac (ForGG did a lot of really good 2facs before he retired though he was past his prime).
I don't understand this "doesn't understand the build" statement by the way. Not trying to be confrontational, but I'm under the impression that 2facs kill most 1gate goon expo openings.
2facs are still viable. They've always been viable. Yes, it comes down to micro, but the reason why 2fac isn't used very frequently is because it's a bit all-in and a lot of times the Terran just doesn't scout in time. People are more comfortable with macroing up and standard play.
ZnF: This is not your ordinary 1 gate expo. Does that help? I'm not going to bother typing the BO since Kiante thinks his is better, which is fine since it is not a bad build. Also, tryumm, if you're going to talk about the specifics of this i gate expo build, please talk after this match is over. =]
Fair enough. Not ordinary 1gate expo. Alright. How many people actually use it on ladders? Is it fairly uncommon or is it really common nowadays?
I'm only asking because I've 2faced occasionally to throw my opponent off and I'm noticing a huge difference in build orders.
On October 24 2011 09:40 Kiante wrote: Oke doke, skimmed the last few pages, here are my thoughts:
b) to the know it all dude who said he could provide examples then pussied out, lol at you. If you knew ANYTHING, you'd know that lots of pro builds are applicable at my level. Why you say? at pro level 9/10 pvt's are 1 rax expo (yes i made that figure up, please, go find 30 games to disprove me and provide vods lol) and at my level 9/10 games are 2 fac or fd. if *I* go 1 goon nexus, i die to both those builds. why? because my micro sucks balls. As a result i use a build that allows me to get more goons in time for those pushes, while skipping goons early on. Is it gimmicky? no. are you an idiot still? yes
good to see we have someone taking control here (me) now i'm off to do some uni shit and i'll be back later in time for my 3-0
I don't think I know everything, in fact I openly admit I don't know very much about the game.
Now, in time if you wish I can address your concerns about the VODS of 11 Nexus in PvT primarily on smaller maps. However, I'm not going to do that in the near future since its not that important and I don't feel like spending that much time on something unproductive.
Also, you won't die to an FD with the 1 Goon Expansion opening. You will have 4 Dragoons out just like with the 2 Gate Nexus Goon opening. The same holds true for a 2 Factory push. In fact, both openings hard counters a 2 Factory push. And if your micro management isn't good enough to hold an FD with 4 Dragoons, then you should practice it until your micro is good enough. You will not improve very rapidly if you never step outside of your comfort zone. At some point in their careers, every pro gamer had to step outside of their comfort zone so they could cut corners in games and have just enough units out to hold a push.
Glad I wasted my 500th post on you.
1. Depends on what type of 2fac
2. 1gate goon doesn't hard counter 2fac
I said the 2 Gateway Nexus Goon build that Bisu used on Alternative and the 1 Goon Nexus build all the professionals have been using since then counter 2 factory pushes. And there is no 2 Factory push that should kill it, otherise it would be used frequently.
There's a reason why Fantasy beat Jangbi with a 2fac on NBR. People still 2fac (ForGG did a lot of really good 2facs before he retired though he was past his prime).
I don't understand this "doesn't understand the build" statement by the way. Not trying to be confrontational, but I'm under the impression that 2facs kill 1gate goon expo openings.
2facs are still viable. They've always been viable. Yes, it comes down to micro, but the reason why 2fac isn't used very frequently is because it's a bit all-in and a lot of times the Terran just doesn't scout in time. People are more comfortable with macroing up and standard play also. But meh, it's been used a lot.
Jangbi didn't even use the build I was referring to. He used the old 3 Goon Expansion opening that's been around for ages.
On October 24 2011 09:40 Kiante wrote: Oke doke, skimmed the last few pages, here are my thoughts:
b) to the know it all dude who said he could provide examples then pussied out, lol at you. If you knew ANYTHING, you'd know that lots of pro builds are applicable at my level. Why you say? at pro level 9/10 pvt's are 1 rax expo (yes i made that figure up, please, go find 30 games to disprove me and provide vods lol) and at my level 9/10 games are 2 fac or fd. if *I* go 1 goon nexus, i die to both those builds. why? because my micro sucks balls. As a result i use a build that allows me to get more goons in time for those pushes, while skipping goons early on. Is it gimmicky? no. are you an idiot still? yes
good to see we have someone taking control here (me) now i'm off to do some uni shit and i'll be back later in time for my 3-0
I don't think I know everything, in fact I openly admit I don't know very much about the game.
Now, in time if you wish I can address your concerns about the VODS of 11 Nexus in PvT primarily on smaller maps. However, I'm not going to do that in the near future since its not that important and I don't feel like spending that much time on something unproductive.
Also, you won't die to an FD with the 1 Goon Expansion opening. You will have 4 Dragoons out just like with the 2 Gate Nexus Goon opening. The same holds true for a 2 Factory push. In fact, both openings hard counters a 2 Factory push. And if your micro management isn't good enough to hold an FD with 4 Dragoons, then you should practice it until your micro is good enough. You will not improve very rapidly if you never step outside of your comfort zone. At some point in their careers, every pro gamer had to step outside of their comfort zone so they could cut corners in games and have just enough units out to hold a push.
Glad I wasted my 500th post on you.
1. Depends on what type of 2fac
2. 1gate goon doesn't hard counter 2fac
I said the 2 Gateway Nexus Goon build that Bisu used on Alternative and the 1 Goon Nexus build all the professionals have been using since then counter 2 factory pushes. And there is no 2 Factory push that should kill it, otherise it would be used frequently.
There's a reason why Fantasy beat Jangbi with a 2fac on NBR. People still 2fac (ForGG did a lot of really good 2facs before he retired though he was past his prime).
I don't understand this "doesn't understand the build" statement by the way. Not trying to be confrontational, but I'm under the impression that 2facs kill most 1gate goon expo openings.
2facs are still viable. They've always been viable. Yes, it comes down to micro, but the reason why 2fac isn't used very frequently is because it's a bit all-in and a lot of times the Terran just doesn't scout in time. People are more comfortable with macroing up and standard play.
ZnF: This is not your ordinary 1 gate expo. Does that help? I'm not going to bother typing the BO since Kiante thinks his is better, which is fine since it is not a bad build. Also, tryumm, if you're going to talk about the specifics of this i gate expo build, please talk after this match is over. =]
Fair enough. Not ordinary 1gate expo. Alright. How many people actually use it on ladders? Is it fairly uncommon or is it really common nowadays?
I'm only asking because I've 2faced occasionally to throw my opponent off and I'm noticing a huge difference in build orders.
Well, I don't think many Protoss below the level of B- use it, mainly because they don't know about it. This build stops 2 fac just like Kiante's; you'll just have to believe me on this one. lol
On October 24 2011 09:40 Kiante wrote: Oke doke, skimmed the last few pages, here are my thoughts:
b) to the know it all dude who said he could provide examples then pussied out, lol at you. If you knew ANYTHING, you'd know that lots of pro builds are applicable at my level. Why you say? at pro level 9/10 pvt's are 1 rax expo (yes i made that figure up, please, go find 30 games to disprove me and provide vods lol) and at my level 9/10 games are 2 fac or fd. if *I* go 1 goon nexus, i die to both those builds. why? because my micro sucks balls. As a result i use a build that allows me to get more goons in time for those pushes, while skipping goons early on. Is it gimmicky? no. are you an idiot still? yes
good to see we have someone taking control here (me) now i'm off to do some uni shit and i'll be back later in time for my 3-0
I don't think I know everything, in fact I openly admit I don't know very much about the game.
Now, in time if you wish I can address your concerns about the VODS of 11 Nexus in PvT primarily on smaller maps. However, I'm not going to do that in the near future since its not that important and I don't feel like spending that much time on something unproductive.
Also, you won't die to an FD with the 1 Goon Expansion opening. You will have 4 Dragoons out just like with the 2 Gate Nexus Goon opening. The same holds true for a 2 Factory push. In fact, both openings hard counters a 2 Factory push. And if your micro management isn't good enough to hold an FD with 4 Dragoons, then you should practice it until your micro is good enough. You will not improve very rapidly if you never step outside of your comfort zone. At some point in their careers, every pro gamer had to step outside of their comfort zone so they could cut corners in games and have just enough units out to hold a push.
Glad I wasted my 500th post on you.
1. Depends on what type of 2fac
2. 1gate goon doesn't hard counter 2fac
I said the 2 Gateway Nexus Goon build that Bisu used on Alternative and the 1 Goon Nexus build all the professionals have been using since then counter 2 factory pushes. And there is no 2 Factory push that should kill it, otherise it would be used frequently.
There's a reason why Fantasy beat Jangbi with a 2fac on NBR. People still 2fac (ForGG did a lot of really good 2facs before he retired though he was past his prime).
I don't understand this "doesn't understand the build" statement by the way. Not trying to be confrontational, but I'm under the impression that 2facs kill most 1gate goon expo openings.
2facs are still viable. They've always been viable. Yes, it comes down to micro, but the reason why 2fac isn't used very frequently is because it's a bit all-in and a lot of times the Terran just doesn't scout in time. People are more comfortable with macroing up and standard play.
ZnF: This is not your ordinary 1 gate expo. Does that help? I'm not going to bother typing the BO since Kiante thinks his is better, which is fine since it is not a bad build. Also, tryumm, if you're going to talk about the specifics of this i gate expo build, please talk after this match is over. =]
Fair enough. Not ordinary 1gate expo. Alright. How many people actually use it on ladders? Is it fairly uncommon or is it really common nowadays?
I'm only asking because I've 2faced occasionally to throw my opponent off and I'm noticing a huge difference in build orders.
Well, I don't think many Protoss below the level of B- use it, mainly because they don't know about it. This build stops 2 fac just like Kiante's; you'll just have to believe me on this one. lol
I'll take your word for it. It'd be nice to know what it was though, just in case I scout and I had a plan in mind for a 2fac.
Maybe I'll ask some other time. Don't feel pressured at all to give me something. I'm sure you don't feel any pressure but just in case.
why does Kiante get to make all of theses calls lol.
I wanna have reps be cast cause i don't wanna be accused of cheating. I also don't want to risk Kiante cheating... I know how bad he doesn't wanna lose this so I would like to take every precaution.
As for mass casters... we dont have anyone experienced enough who can cast at Sayle level. So i think the only way to make up for this is to have mass casters. I dont want to choose some random 2 people that won't be as good as sayle.
On October 24 2011 10:14 puppykiller wrote: why does Kiante get to make all of theses calls lol.
I wanna have reps be cast cause i don't wanna be accused of cheating. I also don't want to risk Kiante cheating... I know how bad he doesn't wanna lose this so I would like to take every precaution.
As for mass casters... we dont have anyone experienced enough who can cast at Sayle level. So i think the only way to make up for this is to have mass casters. I dont want to choose some random 2 people that won't be as good as sayle.
Dude, I know both you and Kiante well enough that neither of you are going to cheat -_-"""
I was joking about the mass casting thing, random shouting by 6 people will never go well, but it might turn out like that anyways!
On October 24 2011 09:40 Kiante wrote: Oke doke, skimmed the last few pages, here are my thoughts:
b) to the know it all dude who said he could provide examples then pussied out, lol at you. If you knew ANYTHING, you'd know that lots of pro builds are applicable at my level. Why you say? at pro level 9/10 pvt's are 1 rax expo (yes i made that figure up, please, go find 30 games to disprove me and provide vods lol) and at my level 9/10 games are 2 fac or fd. if *I* go 1 goon nexus, i die to both those builds. why? because my micro sucks balls. As a result i use a build that allows me to get more goons in time for those pushes, while skipping goons early on. Is it gimmicky? no. are you an idiot still? yes
good to see we have someone taking control here (me) now i'm off to do some uni shit and i'll be back later in time for my 3-0
I don't think I know everything, in fact I openly admit I don't know very much about the game.
Now, in time if you wish I can address your concerns about the VODS of 11 Nexus in PvT primarily on smaller maps. However, I'm not going to do that in the near future since its not that important and I don't feel like spending that much time on something unproductive.
Also, you won't die to an FD with the 1 Goon Expansion opening. You will have 4 Dragoons out just like with the 2 Gate Nexus Goon opening. The same holds true for a 2 Factory push. In fact, both openings hard counters a 2 Factory push. And if your micro management isn't good enough to hold an FD with 4 Dragoons, then you should practice it until your micro is good enough. You will not improve very rapidly if you never step outside of your comfort zone. At some point in their careers, every pro gamer had to step outside of their comfort zone so they could cut corners in games and have just enough units out to hold a push.
Glad I wasted my 500th post on you.
best has 2 goons as the FD push moves out. also loses the game because of super late obs. not the build for me sorry.
Ahh finally did my final year project presentation and have returned to the world of the living. And there is an awesome grudge match in an hour. Fate has smiled down upon me :D
On October 24 2011 09:40 Kiante wrote: Oke doke, skimmed the last few pages, here are my thoughts:
b) to the know it all dude who said he could provide examples then pussied out, lol at you. If you knew ANYTHING, you'd know that lots of pro builds are applicable at my level. Why you say? at pro level 9/10 pvt's are 1 rax expo (yes i made that figure up, please, go find 30 games to disprove me and provide vods lol) and at my level 9/10 games are 2 fac or fd. if *I* go 1 goon nexus, i die to both those builds. why? because my micro sucks balls. As a result i use a build that allows me to get more goons in time for those pushes, while skipping goons early on. Is it gimmicky? no. are you an idiot still? yes
good to see we have someone taking control here (me) now i'm off to do some uni shit and i'll be back later in time for my 3-0
I don't think I know everything, in fact I openly admit I don't know very much about the game.
Now, in time if you wish I can address your concerns about the VODS of 11 Nexus in PvT primarily on smaller maps. However, I'm not going to do that in the near future since its not that important and I don't feel like spending that much time on something unproductive.
Also, you won't die to an FD with the 1 Goon Expansion opening. You will have 4 Dragoons out just like with the 2 Gate Nexus Goon opening. The same holds true for a 2 Factory push. In fact, both openings hard counters a 2 Factory push. And if your micro management isn't good enough to hold an FD with 4 Dragoons, then you should practice it until your micro is good enough. You will not improve very rapidly if you never step outside of your comfort zone. At some point in their careers, every pro gamer had to step outside of their comfort zone so they could cut corners in games and have just enough units out to hold a push.
best has 2 goons as the FD push moves out. also loses the game because of super late obs. not the build for me sorry.
So Kiante since you're so good with your build, can you tell us how many goons you think you'll have at this point when FD pushes out using your build?
On October 24 2011 09:40 Kiante wrote: Oke doke, skimmed the last few pages, here are my thoughts:
b) to the know it all dude who said he could provide examples then pussied out, lol at you. If you knew ANYTHING, you'd know that lots of pro builds are applicable at my level. Why you say? at pro level 9/10 pvt's are 1 rax expo (yes i made that figure up, please, go find 30 games to disprove me and provide vods lol) and at my level 9/10 games are 2 fac or fd. if *I* go 1 goon nexus, i die to both those builds. why? because my micro sucks balls. As a result i use a build that allows me to get more goons in time for those pushes, while skipping goons early on. Is it gimmicky? no. are you an idiot still? yes
good to see we have someone taking control here (me) now i'm off to do some uni shit and i'll be back later in time for my 3-0
I don't think I know everything, in fact I openly admit I don't know very much about the game.
Now, in time if you wish I can address your concerns about the VODS of 11 Nexus in PvT primarily on smaller maps. However, I'm not going to do that in the near future since its not that important and I don't feel like spending that much time on something unproductive.
Also, you won't die to an FD with the 1 Goon Expansion opening. You will have 4 Dragoons out just like with the 2 Gate Nexus Goon opening. The same holds true for a 2 Factory push. In fact, both openings hard counters a 2 Factory push. And if your micro management isn't good enough to hold an FD with 4 Dragoons, then you should practice it until your micro is good enough. You will not improve very rapidly if you never step outside of your comfort zone. At some point in their careers, every pro gamer had to step outside of their comfort zone so they could cut corners in games and have just enough units out to hold a push.
best has 2 goons as the FD push moves out. also loses the game because of super late obs. not the build for me sorry.
So Kiante since you're so good with your build, can you tell us how many goons you think you'll have at this point when FD pushes out using your build?
i'm not "so good" i'm a regular user. i have 2 goons at his choke with 2 popping out of my gates already at my nat
On October 24 2011 09:40 Kiante wrote: Oke doke, skimmed the last few pages, here are my thoughts:
b) to the know it all dude who said he could provide examples then pussied out, lol at you. If you knew ANYTHING, you'd know that lots of pro builds are applicable at my level. Why you say? at pro level 9/10 pvt's are 1 rax expo (yes i made that figure up, please, go find 30 games to disprove me and provide vods lol) and at my level 9/10 games are 2 fac or fd. if *I* go 1 goon nexus, i die to both those builds. why? because my micro sucks balls. As a result i use a build that allows me to get more goons in time for those pushes, while skipping goons early on. Is it gimmicky? no. are you an idiot still? yes
good to see we have someone taking control here (me) now i'm off to do some uni shit and i'll be back later in time for my 3-0
I don't think I know everything, in fact I openly admit I don't know very much about the game.
Now, in time if you wish I can address your concerns about the VODS of 11 Nexus in PvT primarily on smaller maps. However, I'm not going to do that in the near future since its not that important and I don't feel like spending that much time on something unproductive.
Also, you won't die to an FD with the 1 Goon Expansion opening. You will have 4 Dragoons out just like with the 2 Gate Nexus Goon opening. The same holds true for a 2 Factory push. In fact, both openings hard counters a 2 Factory push. And if your micro management isn't good enough to hold an FD with 4 Dragoons, then you should practice it until your micro is good enough. You will not improve very rapidly if you never step outside of your comfort zone. At some point in their careers, every pro gamer had to step outside of their comfort zone so they could cut corners in games and have just enough units out to hold a push.
best has 2 goons as the FD push moves out. also loses the game because of super late obs. not the build for me sorry.
So Kiante since you're so good with your build, can you tell us how many goons you think you'll have at this point when FD pushes out using your build?
i'm not "so good" i'm a regular user. i have 2 goons at his choke with 2 popping out of my gates already at my nat
Right, and...the timing at which Best's dragoon pops out is alot later than yours? It doesn't feel like it. I believe they're about the same timing to be honest. You will have 4 goons by the time FD reaches half way to your base, with both builds.
EPT
