Game 1: pretty good game - if you want to see a rookie in the making. Also, cameo by ggaemo. Game 2: Sick micro from the winner at the beginning, but loser proves this is not your typical PvT. Game 3: Meh, typical 5base Hive ZvP Game 4: Nothing special Game 5: No
I wonder if Hydra and Flash will meet today... I think that Hydra's ZvT is still untested waters, so going up against Flash will be a true test of his ZvT skills. Anyway, gooo Hentus~
My ears just burst from having the volume suddenly turn up, yowch.
The condition arrows only take the last 4 games into account. They only have straight up, angled up, straight across, angled down, and straight down corresponding to 4,3,2,1,0 wins respectively.
Barracks gets a vulture into the main, killing 3 probes before it dies to a dragoon. 2 goons attack a bunker, almost killing it, but a tank shows up. It almost gets sniped, but both goons die and both the tank and bunker survive with red hp!!
Terrible, terrible vulture micro by Barracks, got 3 probes should have killed 5 at least, but makes up for it by excellent tank micro. Barracks somewhat ahead here.
Horang going with observers. Barracks sends out a scout SCV but is denied by 2 goons waiting right outside his nat. He has a starport with CT already prepared and a dropship building, but Horang scouts the main with his observer. It looks like he's missed the starport hidden at the bottom, but he has 3 goons waiting for the drop already. The dropship heads back and gets spotted by the observer.
Dropship heads around the top half of the map, leaving mines at the 10.5 expo for vision. A wraith and scan is used to hunt down an observer.
SCVs transfer safely to the 10.5 in front of a line of goons. Wraith nearly manages to snipe the shuttle but is repelled by the goons. Barracks is now ahead on bases but has nearly no production. Horang already has an arbiter tribunal but decides to make a second one..?
Horang takes his 4th base at the 3' to stay ahead on macro and adds more gates. He also adds pylons for vision at the 12 to make sure nothing funny is going on.
Barracks prepares to move out. Horang makes the mistake of stasising the front tanks, and his zealot line gets wrecked by the vultures and tanks in back before he pulls back. He tries to attack again, but is repelled.
Horang gets another stasis off, but his goons melt to the mass tanks Barracks has supporting them from behind. Barracks is now pushing out and adding his inner 9 base.
Huge storms kill a lot of tanks due to Barracks' bad positioning but Horang2 still unable to do anything else because Barracks still has too much stuff!
Barracks pushes into Horang's nat, sieging it up. He loses a vessel to goons but is crushing reinforcements. A zealot attempts to mine drag but barely misses it. Vultures wipe out the probes at the nat while tanks shell the nexus and gates.
Horang finally cleans up the attack with a pincer from both sides! The nexus survives with red hp. Barracks expands again to the inner 12 while laying mines in between Horang's two areas to prevent further pincers.
Horang attacks the inner 9, but Barracks holds it off relatively easily. He manages to take out the refinery before having to retreat. An arbiter is emped as it passes by.
Horang2 lacked composure, stumbling into a greedy expo grab after his Arbiters were rebuffed Barracks lacked finesse at times. Ultimately, though, he had the patience to grind out the win.
Horang2 way too reckless. Barracks played a tidy game although at one point the lack of vultures/mines could have hurt him if he was up against a better toss.
On February 22 2011 18:36 pvzvt wrote: isnt barracks the guy that u see on nal ra vs flash game in nal ra's show saying his reaver micro was very good ?
horang2's army control was aweful to watch templars walking around doing nothing and getting sniped you saw often 2-3 units donated by the protoss instead of attacking with the big ball autsch
Basically, the point that sealed it for me was when Horang2 hastily stasis'd the forward tanks, right in front of the choke.
His zealots went in and was promptly blocked by 3 buildings, 20 vultures and a blob of indestructible impenetrable mass. His goons were nowhere near in range, so his zealots plain melted from the rear tanks' fire.
On February 22 2011 18:35 xarthaz wrote: GG... ridiculous stuff, 3 base terran crushing a 6 base protoss
Barracks was ahead in bases for pretty much the entire game.. by the end it was 6:4...
It was 3 (and later 4) bases for the majority of the game while Horang had 6.
Yeah, Horang2's economy was way way ahead just before that monster push. If Barracks broke once he was dead (and he would have if Horang2 knew how to stasis or storm).
On February 22 2011 18:40 hauton wrote: Basically, the point that sealed it for me was when Horang2 hastily stasis'd the forward tanks, right in front of the choke.
His zealots went in and was promptly blocked by 3 buildings, 20 vultures and a blob of indestructible impenetrable mass. His goons were nowhere near in range, so his zealots plain melted from the rear tanks' fire.
I think he managed to drop a couple of High templars on a control group of unengaged vultures at the same time but I could be wrong.
On February 22 2011 18:38 Amnesia wrote: Barracks finally wins a proleague game. I hope that means we get to see him play more. Seriously, kid has some potential in TvP.
Could use better army control - too many vessels thrown away, and too many engagements where he had too little/no mine support.
Prediction: Snow delays, delays, delays, takes a shit ton of expansions, avoids center battles, then goes one or two Arbiters into Carriers into Psi Storm.
Barracks harassing his heart out, but most of it's getting denied. He gets some nice kills at the top right with a double tank drop but loses a lot for it.
Snow continually throwing armies into Barracks' third, trying to take it down, but Barracks' entire army is there. A HUGE storm wipes out nearly every SCV!
On February 22 2011 19:03 xarthaz wrote: This is ridiculous again, 7 base protoss is too weak to take down 3 base turtle terran. Just like in barracks vs horang game
World of difference, here protoss is clearly winning.
Barracks pushing out across the map, wiping out Snow's armies as he goes. Snow sending streams of reinforcements but it's not enough. Barracks is sieging the 1 and 1.5 bases.
Snow's reinforcement zealots cut off Barracks' reinforcements, but it's not going to be enough to stop Barracks from taking out those bases.
I mean I think snow still has this because he still has the entire right side of the map even if this push is successful, but absolutely impressive control from Barracks.
Snow loses the 1 and now his gateways are under siege. Snow recalls onto Barracks' island base at the 6, stopping the mining. Barracks is down to 1 mining base!
On February 22 2011 19:07 tabula rasa wrote: how is snow winning when barracks just waltzes into his 1 o clock?
Because Barracks is hardly mining while Snow is still going strong.
Edit, but considering how amazing Barracks is playing he might actually still take this, I'm in shock, I wouldn't have thought even Flash could come back from that deficit.
Barracks put up a hell of a fight considering the situation in which he went in to the midgame. Very impressive, if they had been on even footing when the late-game started he would've won that game methinks. Looking very promising.
Barracks definitely makes good use of his units. I was really impressed how he was able to fight on for so long despite having very limited amount of resources...
It would have been interesting to see the outcome if Barracks sent a science vessel to protect the island from recall. It seemed like if he could just keep mining he wasn't going to be stopped.
On February 22 2011 19:14 Amnesia wrote: Barracks definitely makes good use of his units. I was really impressed how he was able to fight on for so long despite having very limited amount of resources...
His EMPs were really clutch. I remember Snow has had only 1 stasis in that game.
On February 22 2011 19:07 tabula rasa wrote: how is snow winning when barracks just waltzes into his 1 o clock?
I watch every Snow game, and I can say that that's largely a result of his PvT style. Big army clashes aren't his thing, and I can name plenty of Tosses with better push breaking mechanics. He leverages his strength in early game, harass/small army micro, in order to expand and tech, expand and tech, into slow suffocation. He debuted it on that game against Flash (before which he tended to fast tech to Carriers a lot), used it twice against Fantasy, tried it against Bogus on La Mancha but got rolled by 6-Fac, and did it against Really a couple weeks ago on the same map. (Really fared worse than did Barracks.)
That being said, that was amazing push mechanics by Barracks. For the last ten or so minutes, he won every battle but lost the war.
And now... Snow vs. Flash? Just put up the kind of fight you do against Jaedong, plz. Won't blame you if you don't win.
I don't think any protoss is a favorite against Flash right now. But aside from Stork and BeSt, I can't think of anyone who has a better chance than Snow.
On February 22 2011 19:26 tabula rasa wrote: i just realized that we could get hydra vs flash. that will show us whether hydra is a worthy champion that we can be proud of.
hydra's zvt is nowhere near as good as his zvz and zvp lol
On February 22 2011 19:26 tabula rasa wrote: i just realized that we could get hydra vs flash. that will show us whether hydra is a worthy champion that we can be proud of.
It's one game, doesn't mean much. It would be fun to watch however.
Wow, Action playing a good midgame ? What's going on. Lots of sairs down. Muta transition. 4th and 3rd being taken. Edit : yeah, that was not a good engagement though.
Corsairs come to chase off scourge, but are repelled by hydras. Shuttle attempts a drop, but hydras are waiting. It dodges the hydras, but dies to the scourge.
Snow sacrifices another shuttle and HT to storm a few drones mining gas at the 8. Doesn't seem like it was really worth it. Lurker harassing one of Snow's bases gets cleaned up by zealots.
Action snipes Snow's 5' base. Snow tries to rebuild, but Action sends reinforcements. At the same time, lurkers are harassing Snow's 12 and Snow has nothing to defend it. He pulls all his probes. Another Lurker is harassing Snow's 3' and he has no detection so he uses a storm to kill it off.
Action's defilers are out! He sends a few lings to attack with swarm, but reavers are doing a great job of repelling them.
jaedong used to attack the shit out of snow, which left his own bases vulnerable to harass. action keeps his units in his base, but snow doesn't seem to know how to actually attack.
Action's hydras make their way to the 4 and manage to deal some damage, but Snow repels the attack with reavers goons and storm. Snow is still trying to harass with a reaver and shuttle, but gets chased off after only 1 scarab.
Action dropping plagues and swarms everywhere, preventing Snow from even being able to move out or build up his death ball. Now his 5' base is under attack by lurkers. Action is even sending drones to fight!
Nexus barely survives with 100 hp, but his 3' base is dying.
Nexus gets plagued and drops to 1 hp. Hydras clean everything up. Action still sending drones!
GG. This is why Action is the best zerg in the game. Incredible control, harassing 3 bases at once using 100 units impossible to control group? no problem for action
On February 22 2011 19:50 xarthaz wrote: GG. This is why Action is the best zerg in the game. Incredible control, harassing 3 bases at once using 100 units impossible to control group? no problem for action
Best Zerg? Ok.......................................................... Good game
On February 22 2011 19:50 xarthaz wrote: GG. This is why Action is the best zerg in the game. Incredible control, harassing 3 bases at once using 100 units impossible to control group? no problem for action
Best Zerg? Ok..........................................................
On February 22 2011 19:49 TwoToneTerran wrote: Who makes a scout when they're losing?
Pretty sure that was an accident.
Kal.
Huh?
That's half a joke : cf game 1-5 of his serie against forgg in Arena MSL (watch the whole serie if you haven't). And watch their group stage match too, was aweeeeeeeeeeesome.
On February 22 2011 19:52 letian wrote: come on Snow, lose to god damn Action, for god's sake!
Action played really well. But Snow plays too passive. 5 base vs. 5 base endgame favors Toss if Archons and Reavers can be amassed over time, which they can't if you don't do anything to the zerg in the first 30 minutes of the game.
On February 22 2011 19:52 letian wrote: come on Snow, lose to god damn Action, for god's sake!
Action played really well. But Snow plays too passive. 5 base vs. 5 base endgame favors Toss if Archons and Reavers can be amassed over time, which they can't if you don't do anything to the zerg in the first 30 minutes of the game.
exactly! thats why I'm angry with him. playing with JD like motherfing Bisu, then lose to some pretty weak ZvPer like Action is not what one should expect from Snow
On February 22 2011 19:52 letian wrote: come on Snow, lose to god damn Action, for god's sake!
Action played really well. But Snow plays too passive. 5 base vs. 5 base endgame favors Toss if Archons and Reavers can be amassed over time, which they can't if you don't do anything to the zerg in the first 30 minutes of the game.
exactly! thats why I'm angry with him. playing with JD like motherfing Bisu, then lose to some pretty weak ZvPer like Action is not what one should expect from Snow
Snow has always been much stronger when he prepares for a specific opponent, though (like Fantasy). Something tells me he didn't spend a whole lot of time preparing builds to snipe Action.
On February 22 2011 19:52 letian wrote: come on Snow, lose to god damn Action, for god's sake!
Action played really well. But Snow plays too passive. 5 base vs. 5 base endgame favors Toss if Archons and Reavers can be amassed over time, which they can't if you don't do anything to the zerg in the first 30 minutes of the game.
exactly! thats why I'm angry with him. playing with JD like motherfing Bisu, then lose to some pretty weak ZvPer like Action is not what one should expect from Snow
ummm... His ZvP is not the best but not that much messed up enough to be called weak.
On February 22 2011 19:52 letian wrote: come on Snow, lose to god damn Action, for god's sake!
Action played really well. But Snow plays too passive. 5 base vs. 5 base endgame favors Toss if Archons and Reavers can be amassed over time, which they can't if you don't do anything to the zerg in the first 30 minutes of the game.
exactly! thats why I'm angry with him. playing with JD like motherfing Bisu, then lose to some pretty weak ZvPer like Action is not what one should expect from Snow
Excluding his series against Jaedong and Hogil, his PvZ hasn't been that good. It's still his weakest matchup.
On February 22 2011 20:00 ShaSKiRa wrote: TBH i dont see why they send out Hydra? Even know (if) Hydra > Action. Stats PvZ is solid that i dont think Hydra can > stats.
Maybe because he played a lot of ZvZs these past couple of weeks and they are trying to save leta for stats/God.
On February 22 2011 19:52 letian wrote: come on Snow, lose to god damn Action, for god's sake!
Action played really well. But Snow plays too passive. 5 base vs. 5 base endgame favors Toss if Archons and Reavers can be amassed over time, which they can't if you don't do anything to the zerg in the first 30 minutes of the game.
exactly! thats why I'm angry with him. playing with JD like motherfing Bisu, then lose to some pretty weak ZvPer like Action is not what one should expect from Snow
Who says Action is weak in ZvP? He fucking straight up outplayed Bisu in the lategame very recently, something Jaedong's been failing at lately. If it gets to the lategame you better fear for your tosses.
On February 22 2011 19:50 xarthaz wrote: GG. This is why Action is the best zerg in the game. Incredible control, harassing 3 bases at once using 100 units impossible to control group? no problem for action
Jaedong and Zero still have the best ZvP and best lategame and best large army control in the game. They have proven that over hundreds of games. Don't let a couple of games by Action fool you.
On February 22 2011 19:52 letian wrote: come on Snow, lose to god damn Action, for god's sake!
Action played really well. But Snow plays too passive. 5 base vs. 5 base endgame favors Toss if Archons and Reavers can be amassed over time, which they can't if you don't do anything to the zerg in the first 30 minutes of the game.
exactly! thats why I'm angry with him. playing with JD like motherfing Bisu, then lose to some pretty weak ZvPer like Action is not what one should expect from Snow
Yeah, I agre. But even against Jaedong, though, he plays a similar style, like in Saturday's game. It works well situationally and against zergs playing a certain type of game, but passivity is generally not a good thing. It's like what I said about his PvT, except there P has the mobility advantage. Here, Z does. Snow has better firefighting and last minute base defense than most and that's why he can get away with even trying this midgame double expansion stuff, but he shouldn't try in the first place, because it's usually a bad idea.
He's most aggressive in PvP and that's where he has his highest winrate this season. Coincidence?
Ahhh the Starleague curse, now I believe that it really exists. Time to go practice your muta micro again? But Action did have a lot of scourge there...
On February 22 2011 19:52 letian wrote: come on Snow, lose to god damn Action, for god's sake!
Action played really well. But Snow plays too passive. 5 base vs. 5 base endgame favors Toss if Archons and Reavers can be amassed over time, which they can't if you don't do anything to the zerg in the first 30 minutes of the game.
exactly! thats why I'm angry with him. playing with JD like motherfing Bisu, then lose to some pretty weak ZvPer like Action is not what one should expect from Snow
Who says Action is weak in ZvP? He fucking straight up outplayed Bisu in the lategame very recently, something Jaedong's been failing at lately. If it gets to the lategame you better fear for your tosses.
well, then we should better forget his 10 + something losing streak, I guess the key words are "if it gets". Oh , maybe we should take into account that Bisu can lose to almost anyone just for a change)
On February 22 2011 20:09 Spica wrote: Ahhh the Starleague curse, now I believe that it really exists. Time to go practice your muta micro again? But Action did have a lot of scourge there...
On February 22 2011 19:52 letian wrote: come on Snow, lose to god damn Action, for god's sake!
Action played really well. But Snow plays too passive. 5 base vs. 5 base endgame favors Toss if Archons and Reavers can be amassed over time, which they can't if you don't do anything to the zerg in the first 30 minutes of the game.
exactly! thats why I'm angry with him. playing with JD like motherfing Bisu, then lose to some pretty weak ZvPer like Action is not what one should expect from Snow
Who says Action is weak in ZvP? He fucking straight up outplayed Bisu in the lategame very recently, something Jaedong's been failing at lately. If it gets to the lategame you better fear for your tosses.
well, then we should better forget his 10 + something losing streak, I guess the key words are "if it gets". Oh , maybe we should take into account that Bisu can lose to almost anyone just for a change)
Action either plays really well or really terribly. Here's hoping that this is the start of him starting to play really well more often.
On February 22 2011 20:09 Spica wrote: Ahhh the Starleague curse, now I believe that it really exists. Time to go practice your muta micro again? But Action did have a lot of scourge there...
It was a BO loss, nothing really.
That's true, his last game against Killer was due to a BO loss too. I'll just comfort myself with that. ㅠㅠ I hope that Hydra wins a straight-up Muta battle in his next game though. Hydra I still believe!
On February 22 2011 20:14 tyCe wrote: GJ Action but on the other hand, the Bisu fans are gonna boast about Bisu's higher wins again..
umm Fantasy is also winning lots on the other game Don't worry mate, at the end of the regular season Flash will still have more wins. I'm calling this first.
On February 22 2011 20:09 Spica wrote: Ahhh the Starleague curse, now I believe that it really exists. Time to go practice your muta micro again? But Action did have a lot of scourge there...
hahaha, omg, well I'm pretty upset for not seeing Flash, but hell, Hydra... So this is what going on, z win JD in a box and you're cursed to slump. Calm v.2.0 inc. I'm happy to know that best z in the world stays best for now.
On February 22 2011 20:09 Spica wrote: Ahhh the Starleague curse, now I believe that it really exists. Time to go practice your muta micro again? But Action did have a lot of scourge there...
It was a BO loss, nothing really.
Jd used to obliterate BO advantages at his peak form, no excuse for Hydra-the-clam
Jesus guys, Hydra's only lost 2 zvz's (aka one of the most volatile matchups) in a row, I think it's a little early to call it a slump. It's most likely just the typical post-championship overconfidence getting him. I'm sure he'll snap out of it soon.
On February 22 2011 20:19 KristianJS wrote: Jesus guys, Hydra's only lost 2 zvz's (aka one of the most volatile matchups) in a row, I think it's a little early to call it a slump. It's most likely just the typical post-championship overconfidence getting him. I'm sure he'll snap out of it soon.
well I really hope it is so, but you know, there is nothing pretty in Hydras style, he just plays well, he doesn't have that little something characteristic about him, like Action with his lategame, or SNow with his micro or Flash with his timing and versatile and amazing style. I didn't notice, maybe u guys tip me, but I wanted Great to win MSL, not Hydra, he's just an even player for me.
On February 22 2011 20:21 mnesthes wrote: goddamnit what's wrong with the bbcode? The OP is looking like a huge mess on my computer. Is anyone else also having this problem?
Game 1: pretty good game - if you want to see a rookie in the making. Also, cameo by ggaemo. Game 2: Sick micro from the winner at the beginning, but loser proves this is not your typical PvT. Game 3: Meh, typical 5base Hive ZvP Game 4: Nothing special
On February 22 2011 20:21 mnesthes wrote: goddamnit what's wrong with the bbcode? The OP is looking like a huge mess on my computer. Is anyone else also having this problem?
Yup. I think it just is a huge mess
okay fixed. I just missed a bold tag and everything became hell from there >_>
On February 22 2011 20:21 mnesthes wrote: goddamnit what's wrong with the bbcode? The OP is looking like a huge mess on my computer. Is anyone else also having this problem?
Yup. I think it just is a huge mess
okay fixed. I just missed a bold tag and everything became hell from there >_>
On February 22 2011 20:35 TwoToneTerran wrote: Who would've thought that action could cheese!
He's done 2-hatch muta occasionally in the past, and it's been horrible every time. The "win" button seems to have been switched on in his brain for today's matches, let's hope it sticks!
On February 22 2011 20:35 TwoToneTerran wrote: Who would've thought that action could cheese!
I don't think he was planning to paly that way. He just saw that he was making mutas faster than BByong could make marines. So he kept up the pressure. Free third he can sat whenever he wants to spend larvae that way.
Action missed a lot of swipes that game, it seemed like he was inattentive with his mutas alot. Whenever he was specifically controlling them though it was absolutely stellar. I imagine it was because he was making more mutas and rallying units whenever he let his mutas sit idle.
Well played Action, glad to see that KT didn't have to send out Flash today. Hope Hydra will pick up his game soon though, he must feel so bad losing 2 ZvZ games after winning the MSL finals...
As one of those who wholeheartedly supported Action (and praised him most enthusiastically lol) when he joined KT, I am feeling tears in my freaking eyes right now... Action... I never stopped believing, even in early rounds when your performance was bad... Go Mafiazerg!!!
On February 22 2011 20:53 Heimatloser wrote: lol, hydra hasnt won a zvz ever since his finals. slump?
Ya totally. He seems completely incapable of winning since that MSL win. He has like 0% winrate.
he should quit, just like effort did.
why is everybody praising action as the neo luxury? did he play low econ? win games just by muta harassment? guess i have to rewatch...
Ohh, man, your sig^^ OOOPS, wrong thread
guess i have to change sig anyways. preferred sc2 mainly because of english commentators, but i cant laugh about tastosis jokes anymore... the english commentators are currently annoying me...
Whats up with the recommendation for game three? It was a good game and I hardly think 5 base Hive ZvP accurately describes it. At one point Snow was pretty ahead up 5 base to 4 after which Action started playing some pretty amazing Hive play.
On February 22 2011 21:48 HopLight wrote: Whats up with the recommendation for game three? It was a good game and I hardly think 5 base Hive ZvP accurately describes it. At one point Snow was pretty ahead up 5 base to 4 after which Action started playing some pretty amazing Hive play.
I know right, that was some sick hive play on Action's part. His multitasking seemed really good too, deflecting all the harassment.
Come on guys you need to recommend the 3rd game just for the drone block. Imba drone with balls of steel Usually when the protoss has 4+ bases with reaver tech just rolls over zerg no matter how much bases the zerg has. In this game the zerg had almost the same number of bases as the protoss and he lost the first battles... BTW: It wasn't the typical 5 base ZvP. It was some hard fought battles with clutch plague, swarms,shuttle sniping. Also typical ZvP also involves Utras late game.
On February 22 2011 20:55 TwoToneTerran wrote: KT beat the second best team in the league without Flash or Stats. WHAT MADNESS IS THIS
um.. KT is the current 2nd best team (at least in rankings) YEAH ACTION AND BARRACKS
Unless KT can play itself my point stands? Didn't realize we'd passed them up already but it's still the second toughest team to beat in the league for KT.
On February 22 2011 20:55 TwoToneTerran wrote: KT beat the second best team in the league without Flash or Stats. WHAT MADNESS IS THIS
um.. KT is the current 2nd best team (at least in rankings) YEAH ACTION AND BARRACKS
Unless KT can play itself my point stands? Didn't realize we'd passed them up already but it's still the second toughest team to beat in the league for KT.
True, KT always had a losing record against CJ and Hite, now beating them COMBINED
Mafia delivers the good hats off to you man these definitely stomps the haters who called you a fake late game zerg who is not competent at all in pro league or winners league game . ACTION FIGHTING!!!!!!
I said a while back (when action has played his last 3 games) that I thought he was playing somewhat better than I had been accustomed to seeing him in PL, seems like maybe he's regaining some of that fire that he had last season.
Haha wow KT won without even having to send out Flash OR Stats. Good to see Action finally getting some wins (though he did go clutch against ZerO previously).
On February 23 2011 05:17 Vortok wrote: Wow, Action actually performed up to the hype that he had like... 4 months ago. Well done and grats KT. Not so roflster today.
On February 23 2011 05:17 Vortok wrote: Wow, Action actually performed up to the hype that he had like... 4 months ago. Well done and grats KT. Not so roflster today.
You mean like a year ago
well a year ago he was performing up to it too, 4 months ago he had just as much hype but no results
On February 23 2011 05:17 Vortok wrote: Wow, Action actually performed up to the hype that he had like... 4 months ago. Well done and grats KT. Not so roflster today.
You mean like a year ago
well a year ago he was performing up to it too, 4 months ago he had just as much hype but no results
A lot of people drop their preformance for a while after joining a new team. It's pretty understandable. Also, for some reason there seems to be a curse to players that join KT lol (example luxury, who went from contesting jaedong for best ZvP to "wtf is this guy doing on a broadcasted match")
On February 23 2011 05:17 Vortok wrote: Wow, Action actually performed up to the hype that he had like... 4 months ago. Well done and grats KT. Not so roflster today.
You mean like a year ago
well a year ago he was performing up to it too, 4 months ago he had just as much hype but no results
A lot of people drop their preformance for a while after joining a new team. It's pretty understandable. Also, for some reason there seems to be a curse to players that join KT lol (example luxury, who went from contesting jaedong for best ZvP to "wtf is this guy doing on a broadcasted match")
You got it all wrong, he had his opponents exactly where he wanted them, winning.
On February 23 2011 05:17 Vortok wrote: Wow, Action actually performed up to the hype that he had like... 4 months ago. Well done and grats KT. Not so roflster today.
You mean like a year ago
well a year ago he was performing up to it too, 4 months ago he had just as much hype but no results
A lot of people drop their preformance for a while after joining a new team. It's pretty understandable. Also, for some reason there seems to be a curse to players that join KT lol (example luxury, who went from contesting jaedong for best ZvP to "wtf is this guy doing on a broadcasted match")
You got it all wrong, he had his opponents exactly where he wanted them, winning.
Oh and the Hydra catch is amazing. Cudos!
Hahaha, yep. Much better to say that KT has been a cursed team... first Lux's match-fixing, then ForGG, then Violet's leukemia... it's that they succeed in spite of these blows that makes them such a great team to cheer for
On February 24 2011 02:02 reincremate wrote: Kind of interesting how KT won without Flash and Oz won without Jaedong in the same week.
Touche, touche. It's great to see some depth in the BW scene, although I think in time the depth of SC2 will become greater.
wut? If you are talking about teams or spectating, sc2 is boring as hell to watch
KT YES FUCK YEAH MAFIAZERG AND ROOKIE TERRAN BRING IT HOME SUPPP
Yeah kind of awesome, KT showing their amazing depth once again, if only we still had Violet... we would have been unstoppable (well we pretty kuch are in WL but yeah...) VIOLET COME HOME I LOVE YOU! get well soon
On February 24 2011 08:31 ibreakurface wrote: Lets not get ahead of ourselves though, one set where action does well does not mean we are suddenly a deep team.
not gonna say we have THE deepest team.. but if Action keeps this up, KT will be pretty deep. Toss: Stats (and hopefully Violet.. GET BETTER) Zerg: Action (Hoejja X_X) Terran: LOL
On February 24 2011 08:31 ibreakurface wrote: Lets not get ahead of ourselves though, one set where action does well does not mean we are suddenly a deep team.
not gonna say we have THE deepest team.. but if Action keeps this up, KT will be pretty deep. Toss: Stats (and hopefully Violet.. GET BETTER) Zerg: Action (Hoejja X_X) Terran: LOL
it's a pretty good lineup if i say so myself
Would probably work better if KT had one more decent Terran to work with. Really is a fairly good choice, as he's got enough points in common with Flash for Flash to take him under his wing and mentor him. As Terrans, it should be natural.
Stats and Violet should also learn from Nal_Ra and Reach, but I'm not sure if a strong relationship can form between them. One thing that has always puzzled me about SC is that only T's form strong mentor-mentee relationships. Each T Bonjwa has taken other T's under his wing--Boxer-->Oov, Oov-->Midas and Fantasy, Nada-->Mind, and to a lesser extent, Flash. Time for Flash to find a successor--he literally cannot achieve any more, but he can become greater by extending his prowess to nurturing another generation of talent.
On February 24 2011 08:31 ibreakurface wrote: Lets not get ahead of ourselves though, one set where action does well does not mean we are suddenly a deep team.
not gonna say we have THE deepest team.. but if Action keeps this up, KT will be pretty deep. Toss: Stats (and hopefully Violet.. GET BETTER) Zerg: Action (Hoejja X_X) Terran: LOL
it's a pretty good lineup if i say so myself
I'm saying consistency is important, one random killing spree for action doesn't mean KT has a zerg now.
On February 23 2011 05:17 Vortok wrote: Wow, Action actually performed up to the hype that he had like... 4 months ago. Well done and grats KT. Not so roflster today.
You mean like a year ago
well a year ago he was performing up to it too, 4 months ago he had just as much hype but no results
A lot of people drop their preformance for a while after joining a new team. It's pretty understandable. Also, for some reason there seems to be a curse to players that join KT lol (example luxury, who went from contesting jaedong for best ZvP to "wtf is this guy doing on a broadcasted match")
You got it all wrong, he had his opponents exactly where he wanted them, winning.
Oh and the Hydra catch is amazing. Cudos!
Hahaha, yep. Much better to say that KT has been a cursed team... first Lux's match-fixing, then ForGG, then Violet's leukemia... it's that they succeed in spite of these blows that makes them such a great team to cheer for
Luxury getting caught was the best thing that could happen to KT. Who knows how long he had been selling games
This year was tough but even without fOrGG and Violet we're much stronger than we were two years ago.
On February 24 2011 08:31 ibreakurface wrote: Lets not get ahead of ourselves though, one set where action does well does not mean we are suddenly a deep team.
not gonna say we have THE deepest team.. but if Action keeps this up, KT will be pretty deep. Toss: Stats (and hopefully Violet.. GET BETTER) Zerg: Action (Hoejja X_X) Terran: LOL
it's a pretty good lineup if i say so myself
And no-one else above 50%? Hardly a deep lineup. Also... action hasn't proved himself to be reliable yet.
On February 24 2011 08:31 ibreakurface wrote: Lets not get ahead of ourselves though, one set where action does well does not mean we are suddenly a deep team.
not gonna say we have THE deepest team.. but if Action keeps this up, KT will be pretty deep. Toss: Stats (and hopefully Violet.. GET BETTER) Zerg: Action (Hoejja X_X) Terran: LOL
it's a pretty good lineup if i say so myself
And no-one else above 50%? Hardly a deep lineup. Also... action hasn't proved himself to be reliable yet.
if you can field a player who has a chance to win in each of the 6 matches in regular proleague then its deep enough. so who do we have? 1. flash, 2. stats, 3. mafia, 4. violet/tempest, 5. barracks/Perfective, 6. reach/yellow
you cant expect the rookies to win every match. and they field reach/yellow only for the fans. so we still have no deep enough lineup
On February 24 2011 08:31 ibreakurface wrote: Lets not get ahead of ourselves though, one set where action does well does not mean we are suddenly a deep team.
not gonna say we have THE deepest team.. but if Action keeps this up, KT will be pretty deep. Toss: Stats (and hopefully Violet.. GET BETTER) Zerg: Action (Hoejja X_X) Terran: LOL
it's a pretty good lineup if i say so myself
Would probably work better if KT had one more decent Terran to work with. Really is a fairly good choice, as he's got enough points in common with Flash for Flash to take him under his wing and mentor him. As Terrans, it should be natural.
Stats and Violet should also learn from Nal_Ra and Reach, but I'm not sure if a strong relationship can form between them. One thing that has always puzzled me about SC is that only T's form strong mentor-mentee relationships. Each T Bonjwa has taken other T's under his wing--Boxer-->Oov, Oov-->Midas and Fantasy, Nada-->Mind, and to a lesser extent, Flash. Time for Flash to find a successor--he literally cannot achieve any more, but he can become greater by extending his prowess to nurturing another generation of talent.
This is very wrong. Savior almost undoubtedly influenced effort, the entire SKT protoss lineup was dependent on kingdom as their protoss coach -- when he left they took a dramatic and noticeable dip in performance.
Also, Nada's been said to have never been a mentor to any of the wemade terrans, for as much as it's worth. It makes sense too, considering Nada was less of an innovator and more of prodigy.
NaDa was a great innovator. The changes he introduced to this game were absolutely tremendous. I especially have TvP in mind. You could argue that the only player to shape it more heavily was St.Eagle who literally invented mech.
Being a great innovator does not make you a great mentor.
On February 24 2011 08:31 ibreakurface wrote: Lets not get ahead of ourselves though, one set where action does well does not mean we are suddenly a deep team.
not gonna say we have THE deepest team.. but if Action keeps this up, KT will be pretty deep. Toss: Stats (and hopefully Violet.. GET BETTER) Zerg: Action (Hoejja X_X) Terran: LOL
it's a pretty good lineup if i say so myself
Would probably work better if KT had one more decent Terran to work with. Really is a fairly good choice, as he's got enough points in common with Flash for Flash to take him under his wing and mentor him. As Terrans, it should be natural.
Stats and Violet should also learn from Nal_Ra and Reach, but I'm not sure if a strong relationship can form between them. One thing that has always puzzled me about SC is that only T's form strong mentor-mentee relationships. Each T Bonjwa has taken other T's under his wing--Boxer-->Oov, Oov-->Midas and Fantasy, Nada-->Mind, and to a lesser extent, Flash. Time for Flash to find a successor--he literally cannot achieve any more, but he can become greater by extending his prowess to nurturing another generation of talent.
This is very wrong. Savior almost undoubtedly influenced effort, the entire SKT protoss lineup was dependent on kingdom as their protoss coach -- when he left they took a dramatic and noticeable dip in performance.
Also, Nada's been said to have never been a mentor to any of the wemade terrans, for as much as it's worth. It makes sense too, considering Nada was less of an innovator and more of prodigy.
Oh yeah, you're right. Savior did influence Effort very well, but I think that later on that influence waned (especially, I imagine, as Savior got deeper into his match-fixing, which according to Mr Ma started in late 2008.)
Also, very much agreed on SKT-toss-->Kingdom. Although I still think that Nada should qualify as a mentor. He's been good to Wemade.
On February 25 2011 04:38 TwoToneTerran wrote: Being good does not mean mentor. Hell, even when he was the ace of the team he wasn't even really the leader. Nada's just not that kind of player.
Didn't I say that?
On February 25 2011 00:06 Mortality wrote: Being a great innovator does not make you a great mentor.
On February 25 2011 04:38 TwoToneTerran wrote: Being good does not mean mentor. Hell, even when he was the ace of the team he wasn't even really the leader. Nada's just not that kind of player.
On February 25 2011 04:38 TwoToneTerran wrote: Being good does not mean mentor. Hell, even when he was the ace of the team he wasn't even really the leader. Nada's just not that kind of player.
Didn't I say that?
On February 25 2011 00:06 Mortality wrote: Being a great innovator does not make you a great mentor.
I said it in the post directly before you, if you want to play the "Who said it first" game.
1. It seemed as if you were replying to me since you posted, then I posted, then a post was made that did not mention NaDa, then you posted again.
2. You said something different, which I corrected.
On February 25 2011 04:38 TwoToneTerran wrote: Being good does not mean mentor. Hell, even when he was the ace of the team he wasn't even really the leader. Nada's just not that kind of player.
Didn't I say that?
On February 25 2011 00:06 Mortality wrote: Being a great innovator does not make you a great mentor.
I said it in the post directly before you, if you want to play the "Who said it first" game.
1. It seemed as if you were replying to me since you posted, then I posted, then a post was made that did not mention NaDa, then you posted again.
2. You said something different, which I corrected.
Semantics aside all I know is I mentioned the Nada not being a mentor thing first, then you responded to me on the innovator thing (I didn't mean he was completely devoid of innovation, but that he was an all time great by merit of his quality as a prodigy moreso than his innovation. He was specifically known for his mechanics).
urgh, this is an LR thread, how has it gone so weirdly off topic into whether or not Nada was something or other.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rsc4p.png)
![[image loading]](http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu62/Hier00/actionmafia.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1760359/hydra.png)
