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On December 21 2010 02:17 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2010 23:39 Lebesgue wrote:
Watch his game against Best and tell me again with a straight face that Flash is a boring player... Or simply read comments there and tell me that you only see people with KT icons enjoying that game. Ok. He's a boring player. That was the exact same thing he did in the last PvT he did on those positions. They essentially let him turtle while simultaneously abuse the thin walls and exposed minerals of the main in the same fashion that Fantasy lost to some zerg on one of those space maps. Given how much is needed to defend a drop of that sort when you have unreachable tanks backing them, its painfully obvious the front is also going to be attacked. If you watched the other game, you'd also know that. It was completely predictable; there was very little special about it. Moreover, his normal games have even less drops (although frankly the Fortress games can barely be called drops in the harassment sense) and even more turtling on 2/3 bases until maxed unless absolutely forced to leave sooner (e.g. carriers). Flash. Is. Boring. (That's my serious face).
Well played sir, well played!
P.S. Khan fans unite! lol
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
On December 21 2010 02:17 Craton wrote:
That was the exact same thing he did in the last PvT he did on those positions. They essentially let him turtle while simultaneously abuse the thin walls and exposed minerals of the main in the same fashion that Fantasy lost to some zerg on one of those space maps. Given how much is needed to defend a drop of that sort when you have unreachable tanks backing them, its painfully obvious the front is also going to be attacked. If you watched the other game, you'd also know that. It was completely predictable; there was very little special about it.
kkkk, that's the point why I've suggested some crazy build involving corsairs specially on this map :D
but more seriously, maybe reavers + speed shuttles would be better. And then carrier. ^_^
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WAIJOji
Go watch Flash's anti-lurker micro and then try to tell me with a straight face that he has obvious flaws when battling face-to-face.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
what
i've seen it
zerg's builds that allow for that outmicro are wrong
if you're counting on your opponents' mistakes you are wrong.
You know, I strongly believe that lurker/ling play will save the day for the zerg. But there must be 1) more of them 2) they must be positioned right. Not in this world that you just go and engage terran army in open field, and that was the way Flash did that anti-lurker spread when i've seen it last time (vs RorO iirc). It's a disadvantage for you or you expect a fail from terran. Well I'm not like saying Flash is a fail and can't do anything. X_x You always try to point me that I think something like this. No way. X_x But Flash has disadvantages and they may be exploited, and Ssak/Classic/Light did it brilliantly. I was first like WTF when I saw Flash losing straight up battles (I didn't watch many of his TvTs) but at the end of the Classic match I just thought that it's normal for him.
But still he is freaking best player because no one decides to work hard on their play as hard as Flash did, and become the same but better and more entertaining. Like it or not, but you MUST know 100500 build orders and tricks, and Flash knows and anyone else don't. I wish someone would be so hard working as Flash, but stronger, and so that there wouldn't be a feeling that all he does is a thoroughly prepared homework. 
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On December 21 2010 02:52 _Quasar_ wrote:what i've seen it zerg's builds that allow for that outmicro are wrong if you're counting on your opponents' mistakes you are wrong. You know, I strongly believe that lurker/ling play will save the day for the zerg. But there must be 1) more of them 2) they must be positioned right. Not in this world that you just go and engage terran army in open field, and that was the way Flash did that anti-lurker spread when i've seen it last time (vs RorO iirc). It's a disadvantage for you or you expect a fail from terran. Well I'm not like saying Flash is a fail and can't do anything. X_x You always try to point me that I think something like this. No way. X_x But Flash has disadvantages and they may be exploited, and Ssak/Classic/Light did it brilliantly. I was first like WTF when I saw Flash losing straight up battles (I didn't watch many of his TvTs) but at the end of the Classic match I just thought that it's normal for him. But still he is freaking best player because no one decides to work hard on their play as hard as Flash did, and become the same but better and more entertaining. Like it or not, but you MUST know 100500 build orders and tricks, and Flash knows and anyone else don't. I wish someone would be so hard working as Flash, but stronger, and so that there wouldn't be a feeling that all he does is a thoroughly prepared homework.
Flash v. GGPlay, Athena, MSL survivor.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/10605_Flash_vs_GGPlay
I'd like you to point, realistically, how many other progamers would be able to pull such a counterflank.
FlaSh doesn't just know 100500 builds. He either creates the builds or improves upon them. That's called innovation. There is a reason why he is so dominant despite the fact that no other Terran has reached a final since Fantasy.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
please don't post here any single example of Flash's brilliant play. What does it prove? That Flash can do brilliant micro and strategic decisions? Please. Anyone has their hour of glory. Ok I agree that Flash makes this kind of things significantly more often than an average progamer
In this case:
when Flash saw muta from behind he guessed what was coming and immediately spread his marines. That paid off. But GGPlay had only lurkers and muta, who in open field dramatically suck vs mmt ball. And to be honest he positioned them not too good.
This is what happens if you try to kill Flash by one basically all-in trick. I've always said that. =/ Here's another example.
I've read the Pimpest play 2010 thread and saw RuBy do something of this kind too (I mean his accurate shooting of mines that had been planted around his tanks). And Ruby isn't even a top20 player. IMO that indicates that many players can perform the unbelievable things. Not only Flash.
If I were GGPlay, then before doing that fail flank, I'd make freaking 2 packs of lings to reinforce this. And better 4 or 5 packs, that's freaking no money compared to the cost of standard 3 packs of marines that Flash had. And like 6 medics obviosly cannot heal the whole number of marines being attacked.
As much as spread helps vs lurkers, it would kill vs lings - because most medics just aren't able to heal. That's a lose-lose situation for a terran and he can only try to find a golden middle between this. And THIS would be a true surround, unlike the thing GGPlay did.
I'm slightly exaggerating but seriously. Without lings this attack is generally a suicide. Earlier or later all terran will learn to spread like that. =/
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Your posting about Flash is getting utterly ridiculous.
If you think anyone can be as good as Flash just by practising as much (or more) you are clueless.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
ok let Flash's fans be Flash's fans and close this. I'm seriously tired of posting something and get answers like "oh flash is god omg omg, no one can be as good as him". That fanboyism seriously would make one go "oh fuck this".
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Holgerius's posts are what is boring. In any thread remotely related to Flash. Seriously you should take a break from your constant relentless defence of him, he doesn't need you to stick up for him at every opportunity. Its kinda pathetic.
We can have our opinions on Flash if we want. Personally i thought the game vs BeSt wasn't that impressive as i posted in the live thread, BeSt got fucked position-wise and responded to the heavy dropship play in the worst possible way. Because it was Fortress it wasn't particularly amazing it was just his opponent failing to react in any clever manner. After seeing Flash vs ZerO i don't think i'll ever be able to like him as a player. That was the most frustrating bullshit game i've ever seen of SC in my life and i'm not even a ZerO fan.
Btw with this TvT in question, Really should have had a better plan and follow up for this map. I was very unimpressed with it.
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Yeah seriously, what's up with people being fans of Flash in a KT live report thread? Get the fuck outta here guys, if we wanna come into threads about his games, call him boring for using lots of drops, then call him boring for turtling, then call him boring for beating his opponents too quickly, then call him boring for using too many different strategies, then say all of his wins are because of his opponent's failures, who is anyone to stop us? Why should we give credit to anyone who isn't Bisu or Jaedong? They just have that... well I dunno what it is, but it's all that matters to me <3
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The only times I dislike Flash is when he wins too much, other than that Flash is an amazing player. I want him to lose from time to time CONVINCINGLY just to prove he's not unstoppable. Even other pro gamers recognize his power, everyone wants to beat him because when you can beat Flash you know you are doing something right. Stork wants to be the Protoss that can beat Flash but sadly he can't and get jealous when Kal manage to take a game from Flash. Jaedong was suppose to be the Zerg that can take Flash but somehow after OSL/MSL finals, hearing the name Jaedong just don't have the meaning it used to have. Jaedong used to have these sparks of being a powerful tyrant but now, it feels like those sparks are gone and overshadow by Flash's dominance. Hopefully Jaedong will start tearing it up again ripping Terrans and zergs left and right(we already knows he eats Protoss for breakfast) and regain his lost sparks. I'm also hoping for a new rising star with skills that rivals Flash. Flash could use a new rival so his BW skill ceiling can reach higher.
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On December 21 2010 07:32 infinity2k9 wrote:
Holgerius's posts are what is boring. In any thread remotely related to Flash. Seriously you should take a break from your constant relentless defence of him, he doesn't need you to stick up for him at every opportunity. Its kinda pathetic.
We can have our opinions on Flash if we want. Personally i thought the game vs BeSt wasn't that impressive as i posted in the live thread, BeSt got fucked position-wise and responded to the heavy dropship play in the worst possible way. Because it was Fortress it wasn't particularly amazing it was just his opponent failing to react in any clever manner. After seeing Flash vs ZerO i don't think i'll ever be able to like him as a player. That was the most frustrating bullshit game i've ever seen of SC in my life and i'm not even a ZerO fan.
Btw with this TvT in question, Really should have had a better plan and follow up for this map. I was very unimpressed with it.
And people should take a break from criticizing Flash. Kinda pathetic that people keep saying he has nothing special while for whole year no one could touch it and he reached triple dual finals... Yeah, the guy is just an average player and anyone obviously could do it if they wanted. They just don't want to win...
Always the same bullshit, Flash is boring, Flash lacks skills, anyone could play like Flash... But somehow...
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There are millions of people capable of playing Stairway to Heaven by practising, but how many have it in them to actually compose something like that?
Flash's RTS mind is pretty damn unique.
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On December 21 2010 07:32 infinity2k9 wrote:
After seeing Flash vs ZerO i don't think i'll ever be able to like him as a player. That was the most frustrating bullshit game i've ever seen of SC in my life and i'm not even a ZerO fan.
I love that game, and I am a ZerO fan. It was so intense to watch live and seeing the offense/defense between the two was outstanding.
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Guys (Holgerius + KT fan and Flash's), I want to say that in my opinion why people think that Flash is boring is NOT because of his plays but because of his personality. Flash is not....well charismatic unlike the other great terran players out there like Sea, Leta, Midas and etc. I respect him a lot as a player but if only he could have the charisma of BoxeR or something, then that would TRULY make him "living god" lol
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On December 21 2010 03:53 VManOfMana wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 02:52 _Quasar_ wrote:what i've seen it zerg's builds that allow for that outmicro are wrong if you're counting on your opponents' mistakes you are wrong. You know, I strongly believe that lurker/ling play will save the day for the zerg. But there must be 1) more of them 2) they must be positioned right. Not in this world that you just go and engage terran army in open field, and that was the way Flash did that anti-lurker spread when i've seen it last time (vs RorO iirc). It's a disadvantage for you or you expect a fail from terran. Well I'm not like saying Flash is a fail and can't do anything. X_x You always try to point me that I think something like this. No way. X_x But Flash has disadvantages and they may be exploited, and Ssak/Classic/Light did it brilliantly. I was first like WTF when I saw Flash losing straight up battles (I didn't watch many of his TvTs) but at the end of the Classic match I just thought that it's normal for him. But still he is freaking best player because no one decides to work hard on their play as hard as Flash did, and become the same but better and more entertaining. Like it or not, but you MUST know 100500 build orders and tricks, and Flash knows and anyone else don't. I wish someone would be so hard working as Flash, but stronger, and so that there wouldn't be a feeling that all he does is a thoroughly prepared homework. Flash v. GGPlay, Athena, MSL survivor. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/10605_Flash_vs_GGPlayI'd like you to point, realistically, how many other progamers would be able to pull such a counterflank. FlaSh doesn't just know 100500 builds. He either creates the builds or improves upon them. That's called innovation. There is a reason why he is so dominant despite the fact that no other Terran has reached a final since Fantasy.
flash is very innovative, and he's good. doesn't mean he's not boring.
to me, flash is like
a fantasy, but he uses his own builds
a forgg, except he uses his own timing pushes first then allows forgg to use it
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On December 21 2010 11:10 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 07:32 infinity2k9 wrote:
After seeing Flash vs ZerO i don't think i'll ever be able to like him as a player. That was the most frustrating bullshit game i've ever seen of SC in my life and i'm not even a ZerO fan. I love that game, and I am a ZerO fan. It was so intense to watch live and seeing the offense/defense between the two was outstanding.
That game made me die a little bit inside.
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Russian Federation327 Posts
Flash. Is. Boring.
Yes. That's why half of pimpest play thread and another half of best play thread are Flash's games.
What does it prove? That Flash can do brilliant micro and strategic decisions? Please. Anyone has their hour of glory
Yeah, yeah, anyone can win OSL and MSL they just dont want to do so.
Hour of glory - ok, then what about 3 years of consistent play?
If wins and results are not proofs of the talent then what are?
Just go to TLPD and compare Flash's stats and Ruby's and then you learn difference between one-time mine-sniping achievement and golden mouse.
How can you label someone biased fanboy when you have like zero sanity in your post?
After seeing Flash vs ZerO i don't think i'll ever be able to like him as a player.
It was one of the funnest TvZ, actually.
2 Xiphos
Agreed, he is too serious and "good" behaved boy, nothing "flashy", kinda plane person. No good for showbiz and mass amusement. From other side I do not think he has some way around it. To mach pressure and temptations for young kid, any slacking or loosing of self control and instead of Flash we have Baby. He is all about professionalism.
P.S
2 all Flash haters, try to write your posts without: "boring", "anyone can do so", "the same BO", "14 CC", "terran imba", "map imba", "turtling", "he always win" phrases and provide some arguments for yours statements. Thx.
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You guys are getting trolled by _Quasar_. Sometimes its just better to stay away from the guy shooting crack into his dick under the bridge.
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On December 21 2010 12:49 Yodo wrote:Yes. That's why half of pimpest play thread and another half of best play thread are Flash's games.
thats why half of the pimpest play thread and another half of best play thread are posted by people with KT flags ^_^
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EPT
