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On December 20 2010 23:39 Lebesgue wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2010 23:14 saltywet wrote:On December 20 2010 03:17 BeaTeR wrote:
sorry for this )
it's just too much things in your posts that i can't agree with.
btw, was it you who suggested d-web is nice idea for PvT some days ago?
about "boring flash"
You know as a protoss user i've never followed a terran player (or zerg) before flash appeared. And now i try to watch every game he plays. Imho, he is very entertainig. His playstyle varies according to his mood. You never know is he going to proxy his opponent or turn on the turtle mode. And what about flash's comebacks? I can't imagine anyone thinks flash is boring player, there are a lot of terran who i consider more boring to be honest.
And i'd actually like to write much more about your posts, but too high to concentrate on my thoughts... but he does make a point that only KT fans find all flash games not boring... no one else denies that flash is good, but his games look so one sided that even when he cheeses, as long as he wins, it feels boring to watch This is just a matter of preferences then. One person finds its boring and the other person finds it exciting. But can you provide a support for the statement you are making that "only KT fans find all Flash games not boring". Watch his game against Best and tell me again with a straight face that Flash is a boring player... Or simply read comments there and tell me that you only see people with KT icons enjoying that game. If you find Flash boring you should also find all other terrans boring (maybe except of Hyia but Hyia fails so hard so often it is painful to watch).
guess it was a bad idea to say ALL, since a KT fan was definitely going to bring up the one interesting game he played that he won
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On December 20 2010 23:39 Lebesgue wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2010 23:14 saltywet wrote:On December 20 2010 03:17 BeaTeR wrote:
sorry for this )
it's just too much things in your posts that i can't agree with.
btw, was it you who suggested d-web is nice idea for PvT some days ago?
about "boring flash"
You know as a protoss user i've never followed a terran player (or zerg) before flash appeared. And now i try to watch every game he plays. Imho, he is very entertainig. His playstyle varies according to his mood. You never know is he going to proxy his opponent or turn on the turtle mode. And what about flash's comebacks? I can't imagine anyone thinks flash is boring player, there are a lot of terran who i consider more boring to be honest.
And i'd actually like to write much more about your posts, but too high to concentrate on my thoughts... but he does make a point that only KT fans find all flash games not boring... no one else denies that flash is good, but his games look so one sided that even when he cheeses, as long as he wins, it feels boring to watch This is just a matter of preferences then. One person finds its boring and the other person finds it exciting. But can you provide a support for the statement you are making that "only KT fans find all Flash games not boring". Watch his game against Best and tell me again with a straight face that Flash is a boring player... Or simply read comments there and tell me that you only see people with KT icons enjoying that game. If you find Flash boring you should also find all other terrans boring (maybe except of Hyia but Hyia fails so hard so often it is painful to watch).
I don't really think that Flash is a boring player, he can be VERY entertaining but its just that his lack of charisma like the other Bonjwas is SOO remarkable. When I look at BoxeR's autobiography, he said that he doesn't like to take advantage of other's weakness when he plays but he like winning with his prepared strategy that will be superior to his opponents. When Nada comes in, its just something about him that make me like him as a Terran than Flash. Or Iloveoov can trashtalk all he wants AND be able to back his trashtalking, a quality that Flash doesn't have.
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I think you forgot one thing. Flash is not Bonjwa. He is a living God. So neither is he bound by any of your codes, nor should he seek a way to replicate the presence of previous "Bonjwas". He fulfills his own agenda and he does not care if non-followers are content with his methods of action.
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On December 21 2010 01:16 mnesthes wrote:
I think you forgot one thing. Flash is not Bonjwa. He is a living God. So neither is he bound by any of your codes, nor should he seek a way to replicate the presence of previous "Bonjwas". He fulfills his own agenda and he does not care if non-followers are content with his methods of action.
If a living god get eliminated in the MSL 2-0 by 2 rookies in his supposedly "best matchup", then I don't know what to say.....
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This is what's so annoying about Flash getting knocked out. All of a sudden some people forget that HE FUCKING BEAT JAEDONG IN TWO STARLEAGUE FINALS LAST SEASON AND HAS BEEN IN LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE FINAL FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR WHILE HOVERING AROUND 2400 ELO PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE TIME!
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On December 21 2010 01:33 Holgerius wrote:
This is what's so annoying about Flash getting knocked out. All of a sudden some people forget that HE FUCKING BEAT JAEDONG IN TWO STARLEAGUE FINALS LAST SEASON AND HAS BEEN IN LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE FINAL FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR WHILE HOVERING AROUND 2400 ELO PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE TIME!
Yeah, and those finals were really bad. You can't fault someone for saying they didn't enjoy watching that.
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On December 21 2010 01:33 Holgerius wrote:
This is what's so annoying about Flash getting knocked out. All of a sudden some people forget that HE FUCKING BEAT JAEDONG IN TWO STARLEAGUE FINALS LAST SEASON AND HAS BEEN IN LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE FINAL FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR WHILE HOVERING AROUND 2400 ELO PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE TIME!
Are you denying that losing to rookies is significant? No matter how you look at it, it's definitely noteworthy, regardless of what happened earlier. If it was some cheese game, I'd overlook it, but Flash was twice outplayed. That's worth looking at, to say the least.
Also, those finals are really quite questionable IMO.
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On December 21 2010 01:23 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 01:16 mnesthes wrote:
I think you forgot one thing. Flash is not Bonjwa. He is a living God. So neither is he bound by any of your codes, nor should he seek a way to replicate the presence of previous "Bonjwas". He fulfills his own agenda and he does not care if non-followers are content with his methods of action.
If a living god get eliminated in the MSL 2-0 by 2 rookies in his supposedly "best matchup", then I don't know what to say..... See, when I said that I also meant that he isn't obliged to fulfilling any of your expectations...
lol @ Holg calm down brah
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51117 Posts
On December 21 2010 01:37 McDonalds wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 01:33 Holgerius wrote:
This is what's so annoying about Flash getting knocked out. All of a sudden some people forget that HE FUCKING BEAT JAEDONG IN TWO STARLEAGUE FINALS LAST SEASON AND HAS BEEN IN LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE FINAL FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR WHILE HOVERING AROUND 2400 ELO PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE TIME! Yeah, and those finals were really bad. You can't fault someone for saying they didn't enjoy watching that.
you can't expect him to please everyone...I just don't see why after losing 2 games to scrubs that he is no longer considered the best player and that he is slumping......
Even the best player in the world can lose to scrubs every now and then but that doesn't mean he's suddenly not the best in the world.
you need to constantly outperform him to be better than him.
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On December 21 2010 01:40 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 01:33 Holgerius wrote:
This is what's so annoying about Flash getting knocked out. All of a sudden some people forget that HE FUCKING BEAT JAEDONG IN TWO STARLEAGUE FINALS LAST SEASON AND HAS BEEN IN LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE FINAL FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR WHILE HOVERING AROUND 2400 ELO PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE TIME! Are you denying that losing to rookies is significant? No matter how you look at it, it's definitely noteworthy, regardless of what happened earlier. If it was some cheese game, I'd overlook it, but Flash was twice outplayed. That's worth looking at, to say the least. Also, those finals are really quite questionable IMO.
Could be, but putting all the blame on Flash is unfair. Jaedong did multiple all-ins, and Flash deserves credit for his timings (+1 Goliath) and micro.
WCG JvF was very good.
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On December 21 2010 01:37 McDonalds wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 01:33 Holgerius wrote:
This is what's so annoying about Flash getting knocked out. All of a sudden some people forget that HE FUCKING BEAT JAEDONG IN TWO STARLEAGUE FINALS LAST SEASON AND HAS BEEN IN LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE FINAL FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR WHILE HOVERING AROUND 2400 ELO PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE TIME! Yeah, and those finals were really bad. You can't fault someone for saying they didn't enjoy watching that.
Yeah, I bet every single Flash hater didn't enjoy them. Serves them well  .
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On December 21 2010 01:45 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 01:37 McDonalds wrote:On December 21 2010 01:33 Holgerius wrote:
This is what's so annoying about Flash getting knocked out. All of a sudden some people forget that HE FUCKING BEAT JAEDONG IN TWO STARLEAGUE FINALS LAST SEASON AND HAS BEEN IN LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE FINAL FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR WHILE HOVERING AROUND 2400 ELO PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE TIME! Yeah, and those finals were really bad. You can't fault someone for saying they didn't enjoy watching that. you can't expect him to please everyone...I just don't see why after losing 2 games to scrubs that he is no longer considered the best player and that he is slumping...... Even the best player in the world can lose to scrubs every now and then but that doesn't mean he's suddenly not the best in the world. you need to constantly outperform him to be better than him.
well he is supposedly "living god" so yes we expect him to win ALL his games since, well he is "living god" according to some wemade fan in this thread.
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On December 21 2010 01:40 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 01:33 Holgerius wrote:
This is what's so annoying about Flash getting knocked out. All of a sudden some people forget that HE FUCKING BEAT JAEDONG IN TWO STARLEAGUE FINALS LAST SEASON AND HAS BEEN IN LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE FINAL FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR WHILE HOVERING AROUND 2400 ELO PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE TIME! Are you denying that losing to rookies is significant? No matter how you look at it, it's definitely noteworthy, regardless of what happened earlier. If it was some cheese game, I'd overlook it, but Flash was twice outplayed. That's worth looking at, to say the least. Also, those finals are really quite questionable IMO.
It is indeed noteworthy, but it is absolutely ridiculous that we should expect Flash to continue to reach literally every final. Savior was stuck in offline preliminaries of OSL for the longest time.
Man, I should know better than getting so annoyed at stuff like this. XD
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51117 Posts
On December 21 2010 01:51 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 01:45 BLinD-RawR wrote:On December 21 2010 01:37 McDonalds wrote:On December 21 2010 01:33 Holgerius wrote:
This is what's so annoying about Flash getting knocked out. All of a sudden some people forget that HE FUCKING BEAT JAEDONG IN TWO STARLEAGUE FINALS LAST SEASON AND HAS BEEN IN LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE FINAL FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR WHILE HOVERING AROUND 2400 ELO PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE TIME! Yeah, and those finals were really bad. You can't fault someone for saying they didn't enjoy watching that. you can't expect him to please everyone...I just don't see why after losing 2 games to scrubs that he is no longer considered the best player and that he is slumping...... Even the best player in the world can lose to scrubs every now and then but that doesn't mean he's suddenly not the best in the world. you need to constantly outperform him to be better than him. well he is supposedly "living god" so yes we expect him to win ALL his games since, well he is "living god" according to some wemade fan in this thread.
Even gods make mistakes.....see human beings...
but that is off topic.
All I'm trying to say is that you should not discredit Flash because of his MSL performance.
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On December 21 2010 01:49 VManOfMana wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 01:40 Lightwip wrote:On December 21 2010 01:33 Holgerius wrote:
This is what's so annoying about Flash getting knocked out. All of a sudden some people forget that HE FUCKING BEAT JAEDONG IN TWO STARLEAGUE FINALS LAST SEASON AND HAS BEEN IN LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE FINAL FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR WHILE HOVERING AROUND 2400 ELO PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE TIME! Are you denying that losing to rookies is significant? No matter how you look at it, it's definitely noteworthy, regardless of what happened earlier. If it was some cheese game, I'd overlook it, but Flash was twice outplayed. That's worth looking at, to say the least. Also, those finals are really quite questionable IMO. Could be, but putting the blame on Flash is unfair. Nobody told Jaedong to do multiple all-ins, and some of Flash timings were pretty sick (+1 Goliath). WCG JvF was very good.
That's true. To be honest, I'll credit Flash with playing into the weakness of JD: predictability. I mean, if you watched enough JD games, it's pretty obvious how he was going to play. But in no way did Flash outplay JD in terms of mechanics and the like.
Also, WCG was only good the first 2 games. Third game was a major JD fail.
On December 21 2010 01:52 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 01:40 Lightwip wrote:On December 21 2010 01:33 Holgerius wrote:
This is what's so annoying about Flash getting knocked out. All of a sudden some people forget that HE FUCKING BEAT JAEDONG IN TWO STARLEAGUE FINALS LAST SEASON AND HAS BEEN IN LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE FINAL FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR WHILE HOVERING AROUND 2400 ELO PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE TIME! Are you denying that losing to rookies is significant? No matter how you look at it, it's definitely noteworthy, regardless of what happened earlier. If it was some cheese game, I'd overlook it, but Flash was twice outplayed. That's worth looking at, to say the least. Also, those finals are really quite questionable IMO. It is indeed noteworthy, but it is absolutely ridiculous that we should expect Flash to continue to reach literally every final. Savior was stuck in offline preliminaries of OSL for the longest time. Man, I should know better than getting so annoyed at stuff like this. XD
Fair enough. I'm not saying that he isn't the best anymore, but getting outplayed by rookies isn't something to just disregard.
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On December 21 2010 01:50 L0thar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 01:37 McDonalds wrote:On December 21 2010 01:33 Holgerius wrote:
This is what's so annoying about Flash getting knocked out. All of a sudden some people forget that HE FUCKING BEAT JAEDONG IN TWO STARLEAGUE FINALS LAST SEASON AND HAS BEEN IN LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE FINAL FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR WHILE HOVERING AROUND 2400 ELO PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE TIME! Yeah, and those finals were really bad. You can't fault someone for saying they didn't enjoy watching that. Yeah, I bet every single Flash hater didn't enjoy them. Serves them well .
Did you watch them? The Flash versus Fantasy and Jaedong versus Light semifinals were both a lot of fun to watch. Flash versus Jaedong was pretty disappointing by comparison. I'm not going to sit here rewatching and analysing the games so I can explain why but it was obvious to me at the time.
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On December 21 2010 01:56 McDonalds wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 01:50 L0thar wrote:On December 21 2010 01:37 McDonalds wrote:On December 21 2010 01:33 Holgerius wrote:
This is what's so annoying about Flash getting knocked out. All of a sudden some people forget that HE FUCKING BEAT JAEDONG IN TWO STARLEAGUE FINALS LAST SEASON AND HAS BEEN IN LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE FINAL FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR WHILE HOVERING AROUND 2400 ELO PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE TIME! Yeah, and those finals were really bad. You can't fault someone for saying they didn't enjoy watching that. Yeah, I bet every single Flash hater didn't enjoy them. Serves them well . Did you watch them? The Flash versus Fantasy and Jaedong versus Light semifinals were both a lot of fun to watch. Flash versus Jaedong was pretty disappointing by comparison. I'm not going to sit here rewatching and analysing the games so I can explain why but it was obvious to me at the time.
Yes I did. Were the games worse than the semifinals? Probably. Did I enjoy them? Totally.
You may disagree, but "really bad" isn't the description I would use.
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Flash did outplay JD both in terms of strategy and execution.
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On December 20 2010 23:39 Lebesgue wrote:
Watch his game against Best and tell me again with a straight face that Flash is a boring player... Or simply read comments there and tell me that you only see people with KT icons enjoying that game.
Ok. He's a boring player.
That was the exact same thing he did in the last PvT he did on those positions. They essentially let him turtle while simultaneously abuse the thin walls and exposed minerals of the main in the same fashion that Fantasy lost to some zerg on one of those space maps. Given how much is needed to defend a drop of that sort when you have unreachable tanks backing them, its painfully obvious the front is also going to be attacked. If you watched the other game, you'd also know that. It was completely predictable; there was very little special about it.
Moreover, his normal games have even less drops (although frankly the Fortress games can barely be called drops in the harassment sense) and even more turtling on 2/3 bases until maxed unless absolutely forced to leave sooner (e.g. carriers).
Flash. Is. Boring. (That's my serious face).
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
I don't think Flash is too boring, oh yes he can be entertaining from time to time. And I like 100500 times said that i respect his contribution to the game for pushing it to the borders of possible.
But I don't like the mentality of trying to win just with build orders, while having obvious flaws in battling face-to-face. OK, and i like Zerg and would like a zerg to win. But zerg always gets just out-built by Flash and has to either go all-in or to do a supercomeback. I'd like this match up to go some different way, but lol, Jaedong and other guys seem to play just normal builds that generally like 40:60 disadvantage zergs. But maybe that's their fault, not Flash's, and Flash plays just as he can. But these build order wins lead me to wishing that he would be beaten in straight battles, and that's why some people like to see him lose in such way 
It isn't "hate" so stop calling whoever here Flash hater =\ As for me I like 1) other race ( ), 2) other type of playing style.
Hope that I've explained everything so that troll joy discussion will come to an end =)))
P.S. And I guess I must say it like 100501'th time - I know Flash's contribution to the game and know that he's currently the best player and challenge that he gives to everyone makes the game so much more entertaining. No trolling here.
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EPT
