IF YOU ARE A FLASH FANGIRL WATCH THE WHOLE SERIES NAO! Its better than getting laid ! but for the neutral viewer, be aware the quality of the games was below average. If you are still however insulted by my biased recommendations feel free to share your neutral opinion and cloudless judgment in this thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=52045 Set 1: + Show Spoiler +
If Huyk loses, Luxury has a good chance to perform the all-kill. Another option I would see only in Fantasy with some weird build prepared, otherwise it might be trouble for skt.
On February 20 2010 01:51 TwoToneTerran wrote: I have an odd feeling that SKT is finally gonna bring their full game and actually sneak a win off KT. Either way I expect it to be close.
As a Flash fan, SKT is probably the team that makes me most nervous. Bisu+Best+Fantasy is easily the best anti-Flash lineup among all teams (and obviously those players have the competence to take down anyone else on KT too). KT definitely had good fortune in past encounters; we'll see what happens now.
On February 20 2010 02:25 dukethegold wrote: If Flash can be defeated, then KT can be destroyed. Flash is stronger than Bisu at the moment, but Fantasy is more reliable than Violet and Luxury.
Plus, Hyuk can actually hyuk Luxury.
In a ZvZ, I'd give Hyuk the advantage vs. any KT player. SO I expect Hyuk to take the first game only to get raped the second unless KT is stupid enough to go for another zerg. Bisu is probably gonna get fucked over by an all-in zerg move if he playas.
On February 20 2010 02:25 dukethegold wrote: If Flash can be defeated, then KT can be destroyed. Flash is stronger than Bisu at the moment, but Fantasy is more reliable than Violet and Luxury.
Plus, Hyuk can actually hyuk Luxury.
In a ZvZ, I'd give Hyuk the advantage vs. any KT player. SO I expect Hyuk to take the first game only to get raped the second unless KT is stupid enough to go for another zerg. Bisu is probably gonna get fucked over by an all-in zerg move if he playas.
I wouldn't give Hyuk the advantage against any player, ZvZ or not. Not to mention that Luxury actually is pretty good, ZvZ included (when he isn't slumping).
If Flash ever gets to play Bisu (which is impossible cause Hyuk's gonna tear this apart) then I'd argue Bisu + PvT + obvious sniping would barely edge out Flash
On February 20 2010 01:51 TwoToneTerran wrote: I have an odd feeling that SKT is finally gonna bring their full game and actually sneak a win off KT. Either way I expect it to be close.
As a Flash fan, SKT is probably the team that makes me most nervous. Bisu+Best+Fantasy is easily the best anti-Flash lineup among all teams (and obviously those players have the competence to take down anyone else on KT too). KT definitely had good fortune in past encounters; we'll see what happens now.
I think Khan has more chances to bring down Flash, especially if you compare current forms.
Please some1 give me the exact time. I am fan of SKTelecom T1 and also Flash & Fantasy Fan. So this match is important for me. Please do reply quick :'[
On February 20 2010 03:57 jalstar wrote: i can't see bisu beating flash 2.0
I can see a decent posibility though bisu ain't the favourite. As long as this goes towards a macro game(no early game super aggression as that is how all the scrubs are beating him, you'd think he learn), then Bisu will, no doubt in my mind, put up a very good game vs Flash.
Stats and ForGG will swap positions depending on who SKT sends out and when. They'll use ForGG to try and snipe either Best or Bisu, and they'll use Stats against Fantasy. Flash will play final game pretty much regardless. I really don't see them using Violet (call me crazy).
For SKT1 to win they'll have to bank on Hyuk beating Luxury in the 50%/50% ZvZ (both players are in good form in ZvZ atm) and then play the counter-cards against KT. Fantasy will be used to snipe any Terran/Zerg players other than Flash, and they'll save Bisu/Best for when Flash comes out, or when they have no other option.
My two scenarios (depending on who wins the first ZvZ):
Hyuk vs. Luxury Hyuk vs. ForGG Best vs. ForGG Best vs. Stats Fantasy vs. Stats Fantasy vs. Flash Bisu vs. Flash
OR
Hyuk vs. Luxury Fantasy vs. Luxury Fantasy vs. Stats Fantasy vs. ForGG Best vs. ForGG Best vs. Flash Bisu vs. Flash
I know it seems odd that I'd favor Flash in the 2nd matchup and not the first, but that tends to be how his play against Protoss is (runs streakish, but will lose his first encounter with a good toss)
On February 20 2010 06:41 QuickStriker wrote: Hyuk is going to shine and reclaim its title as the best Zerg player! Go Hyuk All-kill!!! (YES, THAT MEANS HYUK WILL BEAT FLASH TOO!)
Hyuk > Flash (YES I SAID IT, PLEASE DON'T KILL ME)
looooool!
hyuk´s zvt is abysmal and flash is currently playing the best tvz of all times. (exceeded only in terms of dominance over the contemporary competition; by oov...)
LOL Lux's lings run right by all of Hyuk's forces get's into his base and kills drones again. Meanwhile hyuk loses all his zerglings but comes out ahea do in the muta battle due to scourge. Killing alot of lux's drones now. HOW WILL THIS END?
"Hey, I hear the only thing that Hyuk is good at is ZvZ" "So you're saying if we just send any decent protoss or terran, we should be okay!" "Yes, exactly!" "Too predictable. Let's send out our ZvZ sniper 815!" "... But even if he does win, he can't beat anyone else ok SKT, so why--" "Nonsense. It's genius. It'll knock their socks off."
Nice way to put all the pressure on Flash, really nice work KT!!
This.
WTF, why ForGG? Violet or Stats would be so much better... They would have a great chance to defeat hyuk and then good chances against Bisu, Best as they have good PvP and pretty damn good PvT to have a solid sht against Fantasy. But Forgg?!!
On February 20 2010 13:49 MountainDewJunkie wrote: "Hey, I hear the only thing that Hyuk is good at is ZvZ" "So you're saying if we just send any decent protoss or terran, we should be okay!" "Yes, exactly!" "Too predictable. Let's send out our ZvZ sniper 815!" "... But even if he does win, he can't beat anyone else ok SKT, so why--" "Nonsense. It's genius. It'll knock their socks off."
-- 15 minutes later --
"..." "..."
lol I was trying to think of a good KT huddle prep talk but I gave up. Good thing someone else had the idea and made it work . Haha. That's totally what I was thinking. "ITS UNPREDICTABLE K?"
Anyways, ForGG is about to all kill. I'm sorry SKT fans. The Pretender is back.
On February 20 2010 13:49 MountainDewJunkie wrote: "Hey, I hear the only thing that Hyuk is good at is ZvZ" "So you're saying if we just send any decent protoss or terran, we should be okay!" "Yes, exactly!" "Too predictable. Let's send out our ZvZ sniper 815!" "... But even if he does win, he can't beat anyone else ok SKT, so why--" "Nonsense. It's genius. It'll knock their socks off."
-- 15 minutes later --
"..." "..."
lol I was trying to think of a good KT huddle prep talk but I gave up. Good thing someone else had the idea and made it work . Haha. That's totally what I was thinking. "ITS UNPREDICTABLE K?"
Anyways, ForGG is about to all kill. I'm sorry SKT fans. The Pretender is back.
Maybe HyuK is back
ALL KILL incoming! fOrGG and Flash ain't got nothin'
what if I say you're not like the others (even in the dark, you know they all pretend) what if I you're not just another one (even in the dark, you know they all pretend) look at your face, you're the pretender (even in the dark, you know they all pretend) what if I say I'll never surrender
On February 20 2010 14:16 JWD wrote: so….hyuk forgot about swarm now that he has ultras?
Prolly starved for gas. He went basically pure ling with a few defilers just to save up gas for ultra, he needs 4 gas to really use defiler/ultra properly.
On February 20 2010 14:19 Megalisk wrote: Lol flash laughing it up..he knows what is about to happen..
his laugh is not of joy it's more like a laugh of pain.. one of those maniacal laughs when you realize you're about to go through some crazy shit .like ..fuck.. what tthis is a u must be kidding 3 of my team just fell to hyuk and now i'm going to be sent out to face hyuk then probably bisu best and fantasy 3 in a row??? what FML
On February 20 2010 14:19 Megalisk wrote: Lol flash laughing it up..he knows what is about to happen..
his laugh is not of joy it's more like of pain .like ..fuck.. what tthis is a u must be kidding 3 of my team just fell to hyuk and now i'm going to be sent out to face hyuk then probably bisu best and fantasy 3 in a row??? what FML
Here comes the chance for the first all-kill from Flash. He just smells some noob blood (at leastI hope so).
On February 20 2010 14:31 scwizard wrote: Here's a problem, Flash didn't practice on this map. He knew he was going out last, and didn't anticipate a 3 kill.
I noticed some holes in Flash's TvZ when he played against Jaedong, granted he was playing against Jaedong, but a two-base timing attack aren't always effective. Sometimes terrans need to stop being greedy and just settle for mid or late game.
On February 20 2010 14:47 Vasoline73 wrote: Expecting Fantasy here
oyes you are
On February 20 2010 14:33 Vasoline73 wrote: You know, actually Flash's team has been so good to Flash recently, doing the work for him... I think Flash will repay them with an all kill here...
On February 20 2010 14:33 Vasoline73 wrote: You know, actually Flash's team has been so good to Flash recently, doing the work for him... I think Flash will repay them with an all kill here...
Hahaha. Nice. It took me a minute to realize what you did there .
On February 20 2010 15:04 Meta wrote: i saw this and thought it was hilarious, but i have no idea what it means. what's with the guy in the turban?
Fantasy's nickname is The Terrorist (from the bracket terrorist, because he has a habit of knocking out favorites and thus preventing big rivals from meeting in Starleagues)
and the dragons are BeSt and Bisu of course, 2 of the 6 Protoss dragons
On February 20 2010 15:13 SimonB wrote: I don't get it.
Bisu played it safe. He didn't get greedy with early expansions, he got observers first, and scouted the attack.
How did he lose? It's not like his micro was terribly deficient (though maybe not up to his usual standards).
I'm not complaining. I'm so very happy Flash destroyed him, but it just seems ridiculous. Flash made it look so easy.
Flash did a good job of protecting his tanks with marines/vultures. Bisu couldn't take out any tanks = gg. He probably need more zealots or reaver (too late).
hmmm really interesting strat from Flash. Seemed to work rather well vs goons only with all those marines soaking up goon fire, but can`t imagine that works well vs Reaver. Nice seeing Flash bring new stuff out pretty much every TvP these days at least.
On February 20 2010 15:16 Oystein wrote: hmmm really interesting strat from Flash. Seemed to work rather well vs goons only with all those marines soaking up goon fire, but can`t imagine that works well vs Reaver. Nice seeing Flash bring new stuff out pretty much every TvP these days at least.
Fantasy's tanks decide to be stupid and not go up the ramp, he loses his scvs and vulture; could've done some damage there but Flash's seige gets up and Fantasy runs one tank into line of fire.
On February 20 2010 15:32 MountainDewJunkie wrote: That was the worst 2-fact push I ever saw.
Hardly.
If fantasy's barracks sees the sieged tanks a second earlier, if Flash's siege finishes a second later, if fantasy's tanks go up the ramp properly, even if Flash doesn't repair the tank on the hill, then the outcome of the game is in doubt.
On February 20 2010 15:39 Plexa wrote: @people blaming fantasy's build
I dont know anyone other than flash that could have held that tbh
The problem is that Flash always makes it look to easy and people fail to notice the small things that Flash does to win such games. It just seems like Fantasy failed which is no true.
On February 20 2010 15:39 Plexa wrote: @people blaming fantasy's build
I dont know anyone other than flash that could have held that tbh
The problem is that Flash always makes it look to easy and people fail to notice the small things that Flash does to win such games. It just seems like Fantasy failed which is no true.
small things like flash abusing the highground and fanta's tanks just bulldozing the crysalis on the ramp...That was all flash right there, no one could held it the way he did
On February 20 2010 15:39 Plexa wrote: @people blaming fantasy's build
I dont know anyone other than flash that could have held that tbh
The problem is that Flash always makes it look to easy and people fail to notice the small things that Flash does to win such games. It just seems like Fantasy failed which is no true.
small things like flash abusing the highground and fanta's tanks just bulldozing the crysalis on the ramp...That was all flash right there, no one could held it the way he did
Kinda weird that Best had his goons split up, having that separated goon with his main force would have saved him a lot of troubles as he probably would be able to hold that attack without pulling probes like a madman.
I wish there was something like a generally accepted convention that the "results" section isn't just a summary of the OP's opinion.
I know that it's all subjective, but I often get the feeling that the OPs don't put a single thought into whether _other_ people might find a game interesting, and just write their own verdict instead.
... but I wish SKT would get their act together. Not being able to take out Flash in four games with the amount of talent they've got stacked is embarrassing. It's not like they didn't know what they were up against, so the mistakes they made are hard to forgive.
On February 20 2010 16:15 GeLaar wrote: I wish there was something like a generally accepted convention that the "results" section isn't just a summary of the OP's opinion.
I know that it's all subjective, but I often get the feeling that the OPs don't put a single thought into whether _other_ people might find a game interesting, and just write their own verdict instead.
disciple is just a huge huge HUGE bisu/skt fan to the point where it clouds his judgment.
On February 20 2010 16:15 GeLaar wrote: I wish there was something like a generally accepted convention that the "results" section isn't just a summary of the OP's opinion.
I know that it's all subjective, but I often get the feeling that the OPs don't put a single thought into whether _other_ people might find a game interesting, and just write their own verdict instead.
disciple is just a huge huge HUGE bisu/skt fan to the point where it clouds his judgment.
As seen here
I'm a huge Bisu/SKT fan myself, and even I don't agree with most of his "recommendations" today.
On February 20 2010 16:15 GeLaar wrote: I wish there was something like a generally accepted convention that the "results" section isn't just a summary of the OP's opinion.
I know that it's all subjective, but I often get the feeling that the OPs don't put a single thought into whether _other_ people might find a game interesting, and just write their own verdict instead.
Yep, maybe some rules should be established for creating OPs.
On February 20 2010 16:15 GeLaar wrote: I wish there was something like a generally accepted convention that the "results" section isn't just a summary of the OP's opinion.
I know that it's all subjective, but I often get the feeling that the OPs don't put a single thought into whether _other_ people might find a game interesting, and just write their own verdict instead.
disciple is just a huge huge HUGE bisu/skt fan to the point where it clouds his judgment.
As seen here
I'm a huge Bisu/SKT fan myself, and even I don't agree with most of his "recommendations" today.
yes, but I guarantee you are on at least some level reasonable
get in a bisu/savior argument with disciple I dare you
Flash vs Hyuk... just rape.. no 3rd gas rofl Flash vs Bisu... insane timing push? Please recommend this. Flash vs Fantasy... insane defense? (and Fantasy's micro error...) Please recommend this. Flash vs Best haven't watched >_> Hyuk vs other KT you can deem bad if you want
On February 20 2010 15:58 iLoveKT wrote: Its a freakin reverse all-kill. all games recommended.
That don`t change the quality of the games from neutral eyes. Almost every game in this series was rather one sided and boring, what at least I want for recommended games are good games regardless who you cheer for, games like Stork vs JD in the Oz vs Khan match.
lol at ppl thinking Flash made anything special in Game 6. Why should I put a rape in the recommended game sections? As Day[9] pointed out, its critical to destroy the crysalis at the ramp, and we all saw why is that. If you are flash fan, go watch the series again, but dont forget to wash your hands after that.
As for the neutral starcraft fan, there were barely any games to watch in this match
On February 20 2010 15:58 iLoveKT wrote: Its a freakin reverse all-kill. all games recommended.
That don`t change the quality of the games from neutral eyes. Almost every game in this series was rather one sided and boring, what at least I want for recommended games are good games regardless who you cheer for, games like Stork vs JD in the Oz vs Khan match.
Flash v Fantasy wasn't really boring.. you don't see 2 fact stopped perfectly too often
Ok recommend ForGG v Hyuk even though it's a totally boring average ZvT but then not set 6? At least rate your recommendations equally across the board. I could understand not recommended game 6 if you didn't recommend any game... :/
On February 20 2010 16:15 GeLaar wrote: I wish there was something like a generally accepted convention that the "results" section isn't just a summary of the OP's opinion.
I know that it's all subjective, but I often get the feeling that the OPs don't put a single thought into whether _other_ people might find a game interesting, and just write their own verdict instead.
not everyone has the same opinions on what makes a great game, you can't please everybody. some people like cheese, some like long macro games, one sided rapes, experimental builds, sloppy terrible play etc
when you see the OP telling you which games are recommended i thought it would be obvious that his view of a good game won't always be exactly the same as yours
Regardless of what you think of the individual games, I would recommend the entire series to anyone who hasn't been spoiled. The circumstances (potential all-kill and potential reverse all-kill) matter too.
Obviously Flash fans will want to watch his games in any case.
On February 20 2010 16:29 disciple wrote: what game were you ppl watching ?! All I saw was fantasy's tanks could get on the fucking ramp and flash abusing the high ground
If you can make better OPs do it next time, jeezus
All i saw was a beautiful and thoughtful deflection of 2 fac. Definitely game that should be watched by any T player. So yes, I think it is worth recommending.
If I remember clearly, set 1 was just them droning, then luxury attacking and getting air dominance once, then drone whoring, then just getting rolled. Was that a crazy zvz? Don't recall too well...
Although it sucked that KT put Flash in such an awful position, it turned out super great in the end. I am one happy Flash fan right now. All-killing ACE is one thing, any noob can do that, but it takes a real man to all-kill SKT. And how long did all 4 games take combined? He raped them so easily. XD
On February 20 2010 16:15 GeLaar wrote: I wish there was something like a generally accepted convention that the "results" section isn't just a summary of the OP's opinion.
I know that it's all subjective, but I often get the feeling that the OPs don't put a single thought into whether _other_ people might find a game interesting, and just write their own verdict instead.
not everyone has the same opinions on what makes a great game, you can't please everybody. some people like cheese, some like long macro games, one sided rapes, experimental builds, sloppy terrible play etc
when you see the OP telling you which games are recommended i thought it would be obvious that his view of a good game won't always be exactly the same as yours
I'm not sure you read the second part of what I wrote.
I realize that everyone has his own opinion, it's just that I'd expect the "recommended games" to be a bit more than strictly the OP's opinion. That doesn't mean that I want them to coincide with what I like, it means that I'd like the OP to put some thought into it when recommending the games. A lot of people are complaining about today's recommendations.
On February 20 2010 16:35 PiePie wrote: Everyone saying all Flash can do is turtle, can eat their words
All Flash can do is cheesy all-in rushes.
He can play a macro game, and his rushes are godly and really aren't all in lol... actually he was defending against all ins in a couple of the games lmao, he just has ridiculous micro and sense. 4-0ed SKT pretty convincingly in very short games, and I doubt he would lose a macro game considering hes like THE macro monster... just a level above the rest.
On February 20 2010 16:15 GeLaar wrote: I wish there was something like a generally accepted convention that the "results" section isn't just a summary of the OP's opinion.
I know that it's all subjective, but I often get the feeling that the OPs don't put a single thought into whether _other_ people might find a game interesting, and just write their own verdict instead.
not everyone has the same opinions on what makes a great game, you can't please everybody. some people like cheese, some like long macro games, one sided rapes, experimental builds, sloppy terrible play etc
when you see the OP telling you which games are recommended i thought it would be obvious that his view of a good game won't always be exactly the same as yours
I'm not sure you read the second part of what I wrote.
I realize that everyone has his own opinion, it's just that I'd expect the "recommended games" to be a bit more than strictly the OP's opinion. That doesn't mean that I want them to coincide with what I like, it means that I'd like the OP to put some thought into it when recommending the games. A lot of people are complaining about today's recommendations.
if they care so much they can read through the thread
After seeing the games i always have to go back to the thread to read what people were thinking as it was happening. Really cool to see. Flash did well.
On February 20 2010 19:33 XiaoJoyce- wrote: I OVERSPLEPT!!!!!! GOSHSHSAJDAJSKLCNBLJK
:'[
I am fans of Flash...oh noss.....I am so gonna watch this @ Vods.
And did Bisu perform well?
The Flash Bisu game was pretty quick . Really one well executed (as Plexa called it) "super FD". Like 8 marines, 3 tanks and a couple vults + rally to Bisu's nat GG
Flash was just epic today, my jaws dropped @ how easily the quasi-sacrosanct trinity of SKT was brought down. Sadly, missed a few parts due to buffering. Can't wait to see this again on VOD. Still, it has to be said Flash had it all going for him though, his obs spot v Bisu, PERFECT timing v fantasy, and Hyuk hyukking himself. Still a great performance nonetheless.
why do i get the feeling that if it was lets say forgg taking 3 games than bisu doing reverse all kill and all of those games would have been rapes everyone of those games would have been the games of the year lol
I'm not sure if you were watching the same game but the burrow trick did nothing and Flash wasn't even slightly close to in trouble the whole game. No reason to fear 2 hatch (well he eventually got a third hatch) zerg with low drone saturation when you''re on 2 base pumping out of five rax.
On February 21 2010 06:53 TwoToneTerran wrote: I'm not sure if you were watching the same game but the burrow trick did nothing and Flash wasn't even slightly close to in trouble the whole game. No reason to fear 2 hatch (well he eventually got a third hatch) zerg with low drone saturation when you''re on 2 base pumping out of five rax.
It's all relative.
Those 3 they sent out after Hyuk did little more than roll over.
actually I was specifically referring to the Hyuk > Lux/815 in ZvZ part Anyways good to kt, too bad we had a huge power outrage in Korea last night and gg
I just watched all the sets in the TL Vods section. I am mightily impressed with Hyuk's performance vs. Flash. His burrow tricks were mildly successful, certainly worth the 100/100. While I would never say that Hyuk was in the lead I would say that he was fairly successful in holding back the Flash aggressive style. I believe he tried to play a bit too aggressive but he was almost on the money. The two points where he tried to rush into Flash's natural are what really cost him the game. Had he not lost those forces and instead fought Flash for middle control I believe we could have seen a relatively even transition into late middle/late game. I'm not sure how successful the burrow tricks can be when they don't take a terran by surprise but if nothing else they force the terran to be more careful.
Holy crap Flash is good. I know that some of it was failings on his opponent's part, but his play is so impressive at the moment it's hard to see how you can win against him. Of course, the same applies to JD, but I feel that Flash is just that little ahead at the moment. + Show Spoiler +
I know I'm late here, but I just found out the result - been drowned in beta coverage.
On February 22 2010 06:45 revy wrote: I believe he tried to play a bit too aggressive but he was almost on the money. The two points where he tried to rush into Flash's natural are what really cost him the game. Had he not lost those forces and instead fought Flash for middle control I believe we could have seen a relatively even transition into late middle/late game.
The burrowed lings were nice, but Hyuk was screwed as soon as Flash broke his front and effortlessly deflected the subsequent muta harass. It was two base Lair tech zerg against two base Flash (~= 2.5-3 normal terran bases in production capacity), to which Hyuk had done almost zero damage. There's no way Hyuk would've taken control of the middle, and even if he did, Flash could easily have afforded to build a dropship fleet without sacrificing his defensive position.
The only way to win against Flash is to do massive early damage or otherwise get a massive economic lead. "Fighting for middle control" isn't going to cut it unless you already have a big advantage (at least not for non-Jaedong zergs -- terrans and tosses can do it, on a good day, if it's full moon and given the right atmospheric pressure).
I wanted KT to win but I was quite disapointe in the fashion of the losses of best and bisu. Although I love watch those to being beat, where's the fun if they're playing so bad. Really hope that they get back in shape so we have a closer top 10 of players.
This was not an reverse all-kill this was a mass rape of the whole SKT team. I have probably never seen such a good series of starcraft from one player in my life. Three games done within the 10minute mark it was like watching an A+ ranked ICCUP player play vs a bunch of C level players......
ForGG's TvZ is actually pretty good. Hyuk definitely impressed me by defeating two ZvZ specialists and ForGG on Terran favored map.
As for Flash, this kid is imba. I watched Bisu v.s. Flash. Somehow, Bisu's goons just keep on melting and Flash's vultures seem to deal as much damage as siege tanks against goons and just don't die even after taking so many goon hits. I just dunno how Flash pulls this off. I am beginning to doubt that Jaedong would have been able to take the MSL without that power outage now.
EPT
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).
. Haha. That's totally what I was thinking. "ITS UNPREDICTABLE K?"
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