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^ Looks like yeah, basically someone trolling himself to show off his MS Econ and BS Math... or maybe that's even made up too... what's going on?!?!
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On February 14 2010 20:07 kernl wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 18:50 Shikyo wrote:On February 14 2010 15:32 Julmust wrote:On February 14 2010 11:53 ArvickHero wrote:On February 14 2010 11:40 On_Slaught wrote:On February 14 2010 10:53 Highways wrote:
Reinforces that ZvZ is a disgrace of a matchup.
No wonder top Zerg players are getting zvz sniped in Winners League. I agree. With the way ZvZ is played nowindays, it's not longer any real indicator of who the better player is. Having said that, Rets response to lings was poor in pretty much every game. I disagree. You guys are all just butt-hurt that Ret got outplayed. I fully agree with that, I mean lets have a look at how ret has lost ZvZ's in TSL: Castro: one loss - too greedy/not enough lings sen: first loss - too greedy/not enough lings second loss - too greedy/not enough lings third loss - too greedy/not enough lings I mean at some point he has to stop, think for a second and go "oh he knows my weak spot is that I tend to make too few lings, I should just make a shitload of lings this game so he cant break me and then go into the muta-battle where I'll have to upper hand". That's rets problem in a way, he has only played koreans in ZvZ. they often dont get like two controlgroups of lings and break right before mutas, they want it to go to mutas since they can micro like no one else. So it basically comes down to lack of experiance on rets part. Yeah, and not even just that. Ret played all the games quite stupidly. Without scouting information, especially if expanding, it's very natural and normal to build almost purely lings. You don't just drone up without scouting information, you make only lings and a single drone here and there, maybe.(Especially against foreigners). Even if your opponent isn't making many lings to attack you, you can still use your lings to attack so it doesn't really hurt you that much, especially against foreigners. I don't understand how a player can be that greedy in every game and not learn after the first time he makes the mistake. Ret definitely deserved to lose the series because he seemed to heavily lack common sense and adaptability. In fact, I don't understand what he was thinking or trying to do, at all. Yes he made mistakes and all. But still, it really shocks me how few people give due credit to Sen. Apparently the average netizen nowadays seems to just have followed the foreigner scene 2 weeks into the TSL. Sen has arguably been the #1 foreigner zerg for some 2 years -- when ret didn't even know how to spell starcraft. Last year, Draco came from nowhere to a #2 finish, and his opponents on his way did not look good at all. Sure, ret was winning a lot lately, but *never* underestimate these "old" players. I simply don't understand how people could have thought ret was the clear favourite.
buddy shut up if u have no clue
ret is as oldschool as it gets. Just because he was inactive for a few times doesnt mean he is new to the scene.. man u have little clue i gotta tell u..
and after rets good perfomances vs zergs lately he was indeed the fav.
But he still doesnt like ZvZ as u can see.. building zerglings is important .. only in ZvZ in other match ups its basically all drone whoring ;D
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On February 14 2010 11:51 tree.hugger wrote:
No, ret...!
Goddamn mass zerglings... Every ZvZ I've seen ret lose to foreigners has been to zerglings. Ret knows that whenever the game goes to mutas, he has an advantage, but instead of being content to go into that phase evenly, it feels like he tries to rush to it and get an advantage there. Which leaves him open to mass lings.
Didnt ret lose his courage ZvZs to lings too?
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Wow, I'm still amazed by games 4 and 5 of Mondragon. Epic, just epic.
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Netherlands4520 Posts
On February 14 2010 20:07 kernl wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 18:50 Shikyo wrote:On February 14 2010 15:32 Julmust wrote:On February 14 2010 11:53 ArvickHero wrote:On February 14 2010 11:40 On_Slaught wrote:On February 14 2010 10:53 Highways wrote:
Reinforces that ZvZ is a disgrace of a matchup.
No wonder top Zerg players are getting zvz sniped in Winners League. I agree. With the way ZvZ is played nowindays, it's not longer any real indicator of who the better player is. Having said that, Rets response to lings was poor in pretty much every game. I disagree. You guys are all just butt-hurt that Ret got outplayed. I fully agree with that, I mean lets have a look at how ret has lost ZvZ's in TSL: Castro: one loss - too greedy/not enough lings sen: first loss - too greedy/not enough lings second loss - too greedy/not enough lings third loss - too greedy/not enough lings I mean at some point he has to stop, think for a second and go "oh he knows my weak spot is that I tend to make too few lings, I should just make a shitload of lings this game so he cant break me and then go into the muta-battle where I'll have to upper hand". That's rets problem in a way, he has only played koreans in ZvZ. they often dont get like two controlgroups of lings and break right before mutas, they want it to go to mutas since they can micro like no one else. So it basically comes down to lack of experiance on rets part. Yeah, and not even just that. Ret played all the games quite stupidly. Without scouting information, especially if expanding, it's very natural and normal to build almost purely lings. You don't just drone up without scouting information, you make only lings and a single drone here and there, maybe.(Especially against foreigners). Even if your opponent isn't making many lings to attack you, you can still use your lings to attack so it doesn't really hurt you that much, especially against foreigners. I don't understand how a player can be that greedy in every game and not learn after the first time he makes the mistake. Ret definitely deserved to lose the series because he seemed to heavily lack common sense and adaptability. In fact, I don't understand what he was thinking or trying to do, at all. Yes he made mistakes and all. But still, it really shocks me how few people give due credit to Sen. Apparently the average netizen nowadays seems to just have followed the foreigner scene 2 weeks into the TSL. Sen has arguably been the #1 foreigner zerg for some 2 years -- when ret didn't even know how to spell starcraft. Last year, Draco came from nowhere to a #2 finish, and his opponents on his way did not look good at all. Sure, ret was winning a lot lately, but *never* underestimate these "old" players. I simply don't understand how people could have thought ret was the clear favourite.
http://www.wgtour.com/news.php?datab=broodwar&idN=12285&noChange=1
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United States43989 Posts
On February 14 2010 21:54 ret wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 20:07 kernl wrote:On February 14 2010 18:50 Shikyo wrote:On February 14 2010 15:32 Julmust wrote:On February 14 2010 11:53 ArvickHero wrote:On February 14 2010 11:40 On_Slaught wrote:On February 14 2010 10:53 Highways wrote:
Reinforces that ZvZ is a disgrace of a matchup.
No wonder top Zerg players are getting zvz sniped in Winners League. I agree. With the way ZvZ is played nowindays, it's not longer any real indicator of who the better player is. Having said that, Rets response to lings was poor in pretty much every game. I disagree. You guys are all just butt-hurt that Ret got outplayed. I fully agree with that, I mean lets have a look at how ret has lost ZvZ's in TSL: Castro: one loss - too greedy/not enough lings sen: first loss - too greedy/not enough lings second loss - too greedy/not enough lings third loss - too greedy/not enough lings I mean at some point he has to stop, think for a second and go "oh he knows my weak spot is that I tend to make too few lings, I should just make a shitload of lings this game so he cant break me and then go into the muta-battle where I'll have to upper hand". That's rets problem in a way, he has only played koreans in ZvZ. they often dont get like two controlgroups of lings and break right before mutas, they want it to go to mutas since they can micro like no one else. So it basically comes down to lack of experiance on rets part. Yeah, and not even just that. Ret played all the games quite stupidly. Without scouting information, especially if expanding, it's very natural and normal to build almost purely lings. You don't just drone up without scouting information, you make only lings and a single drone here and there, maybe.(Especially against foreigners). Even if your opponent isn't making many lings to attack you, you can still use your lings to attack so it doesn't really hurt you that much, especially against foreigners. I don't understand how a player can be that greedy in every game and not learn after the first time he makes the mistake. Ret definitely deserved to lose the series because he seemed to heavily lack common sense and adaptability. In fact, I don't understand what he was thinking or trying to do, at all. Yes he made mistakes and all. But still, it really shocks me how few people give due credit to Sen. Apparently the average netizen nowadays seems to just have followed the foreigner scene 2 weeks into the TSL. Sen has arguably been the #1 foreigner zerg for some 2 years -- when ret didn't even know how to spell starcraft. Last year, Draco came from nowhere to a #2 finish, and his opponents on his way did not look good at all. Sure, ret was winning a lot lately, but *never* underestimate these "old" players. I simply don't understand how people could have thought ret was the clear favourite. http://www.wgtour.com/news.php?datab=broodwar&idN=12285&noChange=1
yeah, but could you spell starcraft back then?
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On February 14 2010 21:03 MaGic~PhiL wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 20:07 kernl wrote:On February 14 2010 18:50 Shikyo wrote:On February 14 2010 15:32 Julmust wrote:On February 14 2010 11:53 ArvickHero wrote:On February 14 2010 11:40 On_Slaught wrote:On February 14 2010 10:53 Highways wrote:
Reinforces that ZvZ is a disgrace of a matchup.
No wonder top Zerg players are getting zvz sniped in Winners League. I agree. With the way ZvZ is played nowindays, it's not longer any real indicator of who the better player is. Having said that, Rets response to lings was poor in pretty much every game. I disagree. You guys are all just butt-hurt that Ret got outplayed. I fully agree with that, I mean lets have a look at how ret has lost ZvZ's in TSL: Castro: one loss - too greedy/not enough lings sen: first loss - too greedy/not enough lings second loss - too greedy/not enough lings third loss - too greedy/not enough lings I mean at some point he has to stop, think for a second and go "oh he knows my weak spot is that I tend to make too few lings, I should just make a shitload of lings this game so he cant break me and then go into the muta-battle where I'll have to upper hand". That's rets problem in a way, he has only played koreans in ZvZ. they often dont get like two controlgroups of lings and break right before mutas, they want it to go to mutas since they can micro like no one else. So it basically comes down to lack of experiance on rets part. Yeah, and not even just that. Ret played all the games quite stupidly. Without scouting information, especially if expanding, it's very natural and normal to build almost purely lings. You don't just drone up without scouting information, you make only lings and a single drone here and there, maybe.(Especially against foreigners). Even if your opponent isn't making many lings to attack you, you can still use your lings to attack so it doesn't really hurt you that much, especially against foreigners. I don't understand how a player can be that greedy in every game and not learn after the first time he makes the mistake. Ret definitely deserved to lose the series because he seemed to heavily lack common sense and adaptability. In fact, I don't understand what he was thinking or trying to do, at all. Yes he made mistakes and all. But still, it really shocks me how few people give due credit to Sen. Apparently the average netizen nowadays seems to just have followed the foreigner scene 2 weeks into the TSL. Sen has arguably been the #1 foreigner zerg for some 2 years -- when ret didn't even know how to spell starcraft. Last year, Draco came from nowhere to a #2 finish, and his opponents on his way did not look good at all. Sure, ret was winning a lot lately, but *never* underestimate these "old" players. I simply don't understand how people could have thought ret was the clear favourite. buddy shut up if u have no clue ret is as oldschool as it gets. Just because he was inactive for a few times doesnt mean he is new to the scene.. man u have little clue i gotta tell u.. and after rets good perfomances vs zergs lately he was indeed the fav. But he still doesnt like ZvZ as u can see.. building zerglings is important .. only in ZvZ in other match ups its basically all drone whoring ;D
Dude, it's not that I've never heard from ret until yesterday. I was just trying to make a point, which you obviously didn't get. Indeed, you are one of those annoying fanboys -- which kind of prevents any realistic view on winning chances whatsoever -- and when your players lose you cry as if your mother had died. Your bias, be it fisheye or kolll or whoever else, is so ridiculous that people actually consider it sufficient to refer to you when talking about wimps who cry all the time (cf. Idra interview).
What surprises me however is that you were actually around when Sen was dominating, crushing every foreigner, taking games from the likes of Savior. I don't get how you can clearly favor ret just because he's had some success lately. Sure, it's arguable that ret's chances were slightly higher due to that and to Sen's inactivity, but it annoys me that people seem to consider this result an upset.
You gotta realise at some point that every player left in the TSL can beat any other one, and thank god this is so, otherwise this tournament would be boring.
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On February 14 2010 21:54 ret wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 20:07 kernl wrote:On February 14 2010 18:50 Shikyo wrote:On February 14 2010 15:32 Julmust wrote:On February 14 2010 11:53 ArvickHero wrote:On February 14 2010 11:40 On_Slaught wrote:On February 14 2010 10:53 Highways wrote:
Reinforces that ZvZ is a disgrace of a matchup.
No wonder top Zerg players are getting zvz sniped in Winners League. I agree. With the way ZvZ is played nowindays, it's not longer any real indicator of who the better player is. Having said that, Rets response to lings was poor in pretty much every game. I disagree. You guys are all just butt-hurt that Ret got outplayed. I fully agree with that, I mean lets have a look at how ret has lost ZvZ's in TSL: Castro: one loss - too greedy/not enough lings sen: first loss - too greedy/not enough lings second loss - too greedy/not enough lings third loss - too greedy/not enough lings I mean at some point he has to stop, think for a second and go "oh he knows my weak spot is that I tend to make too few lings, I should just make a shitload of lings this game so he cant break me and then go into the muta-battle where I'll have to upper hand". That's rets problem in a way, he has only played koreans in ZvZ. they often dont get like two controlgroups of lings and break right before mutas, they want it to go to mutas since they can micro like no one else. So it basically comes down to lack of experiance on rets part. Yeah, and not even just that. Ret played all the games quite stupidly. Without scouting information, especially if expanding, it's very natural and normal to build almost purely lings. You don't just drone up without scouting information, you make only lings and a single drone here and there, maybe.(Especially against foreigners). Even if your opponent isn't making many lings to attack you, you can still use your lings to attack so it doesn't really hurt you that much, especially against foreigners. I don't understand how a player can be that greedy in every game and not learn after the first time he makes the mistake. Ret definitely deserved to lose the series because he seemed to heavily lack common sense and adaptability. In fact, I don't understand what he was thinking or trying to do, at all. Yes he made mistakes and all. But still, it really shocks me how few people give due credit to Sen. Apparently the average netizen nowadays seems to just have followed the foreigner scene 2 weeks into the TSL. Sen has arguably been the #1 foreigner zerg for some 2 years -- when ret didn't even know how to spell starcraft. Last year, Draco came from nowhere to a #2 finish, and his opponents on his way did not look good at all. Sure, ret was winning a lot lately, but *never* underestimate these "old" players. I simply don't understand how people could have thought ret was the clear favourite. http://www.wgtour.com/news.php?datab=broodwar&idN=12285&noChange=1
You chose the right race for that series
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On February 14 2010 21:54 ret wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 20:07 kernl wrote:On February 14 2010 18:50 Shikyo wrote:On February 14 2010 15:32 Julmust wrote:On February 14 2010 11:53 ArvickHero wrote:On February 14 2010 11:40 On_Slaught wrote:On February 14 2010 10:53 Highways wrote:
Reinforces that ZvZ is a disgrace of a matchup.
No wonder top Zerg players are getting zvz sniped in Winners League. I agree. With the way ZvZ is played nowindays, it's not longer any real indicator of who the better player is. Having said that, Rets response to lings was poor in pretty much every game. I disagree. You guys are all just butt-hurt that Ret got outplayed. I fully agree with that, I mean lets have a look at how ret has lost ZvZ's in TSL: Castro: one loss - too greedy/not enough lings sen: first loss - too greedy/not enough lings second loss - too greedy/not enough lings third loss - too greedy/not enough lings I mean at some point he has to stop, think for a second and go "oh he knows my weak spot is that I tend to make too few lings, I should just make a shitload of lings this game so he cant break me and then go into the muta-battle where I'll have to upper hand". That's rets problem in a way, he has only played koreans in ZvZ. they often dont get like two controlgroups of lings and break right before mutas, they want it to go to mutas since they can micro like no one else. So it basically comes down to lack of experiance on rets part. Yeah, and not even just that. Ret played all the games quite stupidly. Without scouting information, especially if expanding, it's very natural and normal to build almost purely lings. You don't just drone up without scouting information, you make only lings and a single drone here and there, maybe.(Especially against foreigners). Even if your opponent isn't making many lings to attack you, you can still use your lings to attack so it doesn't really hurt you that much, especially against foreigners. I don't understand how a player can be that greedy in every game and not learn after the first time he makes the mistake. Ret definitely deserved to lose the series because he seemed to heavily lack common sense and adaptability. In fact, I don't understand what he was thinking or trying to do, at all. Yes he made mistakes and all. But still, it really shocks me how few people give due credit to Sen. Apparently the average netizen nowadays seems to just have followed the foreigner scene 2 weeks into the TSL. Sen has arguably been the #1 foreigner zerg for some 2 years -- when ret didn't even know how to spell starcraft. Last year, Draco came from nowhere to a #2 finish, and his opponents on his way did not look good at all. Sure, ret was winning a lot lately, but *never* underestimate these "old" players. I simply don't understand how people could have thought ret was the clear favourite. http://www.wgtour.com/news.php?datab=broodwar&idN=12285&noChange=1
Good point 
Well I think you understand what I was trying to say anyway, I feel exaggerating is just a necessary means to an end sometimes. And yes, did you actually know how to spell starcraft?
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On February 14 2010 22:16 kernl wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 21:03 MaGic~PhiL wrote:On February 14 2010 20:07 kernl wrote:On February 14 2010 18:50 Shikyo wrote:On February 14 2010 15:32 Julmust wrote:On February 14 2010 11:53 ArvickHero wrote:On February 14 2010 11:40 On_Slaught wrote:On February 14 2010 10:53 Highways wrote:
Reinforces that ZvZ is a disgrace of a matchup.
No wonder top Zerg players are getting zvz sniped in Winners League. I agree. With the way ZvZ is played nowindays, it's not longer any real indicator of who the better player is. Having said that, Rets response to lings was poor in pretty much every game. I disagree. You guys are all just butt-hurt that Ret got outplayed. I fully agree with that, I mean lets have a look at how ret has lost ZvZ's in TSL: Castro: one loss - too greedy/not enough lings sen: first loss - too greedy/not enough lings second loss - too greedy/not enough lings third loss - too greedy/not enough lings I mean at some point he has to stop, think for a second and go "oh he knows my weak spot is that I tend to make too few lings, I should just make a shitload of lings this game so he cant break me and then go into the muta-battle where I'll have to upper hand". That's rets problem in a way, he has only played koreans in ZvZ. they often dont get like two controlgroups of lings and break right before mutas, they want it to go to mutas since they can micro like no one else. So it basically comes down to lack of experiance on rets part. Yeah, and not even just that. Ret played all the games quite stupidly. Without scouting information, especially if expanding, it's very natural and normal to build almost purely lings. You don't just drone up without scouting information, you make only lings and a single drone here and there, maybe.(Especially against foreigners). Even if your opponent isn't making many lings to attack you, you can still use your lings to attack so it doesn't really hurt you that much, especially against foreigners. I don't understand how a player can be that greedy in every game and not learn after the first time he makes the mistake. Ret definitely deserved to lose the series because he seemed to heavily lack common sense and adaptability. In fact, I don't understand what he was thinking or trying to do, at all. Yes he made mistakes and all. But still, it really shocks me how few people give due credit to Sen. Apparently the average netizen nowadays seems to just have followed the foreigner scene 2 weeks into the TSL. Sen has arguably been the #1 foreigner zerg for some 2 years -- when ret didn't even know how to spell starcraft. Last year, Draco came from nowhere to a #2 finish, and his opponents on his way did not look good at all. Sure, ret was winning a lot lately, but *never* underestimate these "old" players. I simply don't understand how people could have thought ret was the clear favourite. buddy shut up if u have no clue ret is as oldschool as it gets. Just because he was inactive for a few times doesnt mean he is new to the scene.. man u have little clue i gotta tell u.. and after rets good perfomances vs zergs lately he was indeed the fav. But he still doesnt like ZvZ as u can see.. building zerglings is important .. only in ZvZ in other match ups its basically all drone whoring ;D Dude, it's not that I've never heard from ret until yesterday. I was just trying to make a point, which you obviously didn't get. Indeed, you are one of those annoying fanboys -- which kind of prevents any realistic view on winning chances whatsoever -- and when your players lose you cry as if your mother had died. Your bias, be it fisheye or kolll or whoever else, is so ridiculous that people actually consider it sufficient to refer to you when talking about wimps who cry all the time (cf. Idra interview). What surprises me however is that you were actually around when Sen was dominating, crushing every foreigner, taking games from the likes of Savior. I don't get how you can clearly favor ret just because he's had some success lately. Sure, it's arguable that ret's chances were slightly higher due to that and to Sen's inactivity, but it annoys me that people seem to consider this result an upset. You gotta realise at some point that every player left in the TSL can beat any other one, and thank god this is so, otherwise this tournament would be boring.
Boy no offense but are u..
1) So u basicaly say we agree ?
Ret was the SLIGHT favourite ( on this level especially in ZvZ no one is a huge fav. and its not a huge upset either.. ) I just gave ret and many others as well a SLIGHT ( ! ) edge..
Seeing ret losing isnt surprising. It was very well in the range of a certain possibilty
Seein as it is ZvZ and as Sen & ret are both beats i doubt anyone with a clear mind would have said ret is the CLEAR fav.
Its something like 55/45 and ZvZ almost making it a 50/50 thing so what !?
2) For sure everyone can beat any other man what are u even trying to say !?
3) Im no ret fan boy buddy.. Im not sad he lost Im not crying..
I dont even know what u want but u sir seem to have no clue how long ret as been around.. seriously.. Sen is pretty oldschool but believe me.. ret is even longer playing this game.. ( at least as long competetive .. )
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On February 14 2010 22:30 MaGic~PhiL wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 22:16 kernl wrote:On February 14 2010 21:03 MaGic~PhiL wrote:On February 14 2010 20:07 kernl wrote:On February 14 2010 18:50 Shikyo wrote:On February 14 2010 15:32 Julmust wrote:On February 14 2010 11:53 ArvickHero wrote:On February 14 2010 11:40 On_Slaught wrote:On February 14 2010 10:53 Highways wrote:
Reinforces that ZvZ is a disgrace of a matchup.
No wonder top Zerg players are getting zvz sniped in Winners League. I agree. With the way ZvZ is played nowindays, it's not longer any real indicator of who the better player is. Having said that, Rets response to lings was poor in pretty much every game. I disagree. You guys are all just butt-hurt that Ret got outplayed. I fully agree with that, I mean lets have a look at how ret has lost ZvZ's in TSL: Castro: one loss - too greedy/not enough lings sen: first loss - too greedy/not enough lings second loss - too greedy/not enough lings third loss - too greedy/not enough lings I mean at some point he has to stop, think for a second and go "oh he knows my weak spot is that I tend to make too few lings, I should just make a shitload of lings this game so he cant break me and then go into the muta-battle where I'll have to upper hand". That's rets problem in a way, he has only played koreans in ZvZ. they often dont get like two controlgroups of lings and break right before mutas, they want it to go to mutas since they can micro like no one else. So it basically comes down to lack of experiance on rets part. Yeah, and not even just that. Ret played all the games quite stupidly. Without scouting information, especially if expanding, it's very natural and normal to build almost purely lings. You don't just drone up without scouting information, you make only lings and a single drone here and there, maybe.(Especially against foreigners). Even if your opponent isn't making many lings to attack you, you can still use your lings to attack so it doesn't really hurt you that much, especially against foreigners. I don't understand how a player can be that greedy in every game and not learn after the first time he makes the mistake. Ret definitely deserved to lose the series because he seemed to heavily lack common sense and adaptability. In fact, I don't understand what he was thinking or trying to do, at all. Yes he made mistakes and all. But still, it really shocks me how few people give due credit to Sen. Apparently the average netizen nowadays seems to just have followed the foreigner scene 2 weeks into the TSL. Sen has arguably been the #1 foreigner zerg for some 2 years -- when ret didn't even know how to spell starcraft. Last year, Draco came from nowhere to a #2 finish, and his opponents on his way did not look good at all. Sure, ret was winning a lot lately, but *never* underestimate these "old" players. I simply don't understand how people could have thought ret was the clear favourite. buddy shut up if u have no clue ret is as oldschool as it gets. Just because he was inactive for a few times doesnt mean he is new to the scene.. man u have little clue i gotta tell u.. and after rets good perfomances vs zergs lately he was indeed the fav. But he still doesnt like ZvZ as u can see.. building zerglings is important .. only in ZvZ in other match ups its basically all drone whoring ;D Dude, it's not that I've never heard from ret until yesterday. I was just trying to make a point, which you obviously didn't get. Indeed, you are one of those annoying fanboys -- which kind of prevents any realistic view on winning chances whatsoever -- and when your players lose you cry as if your mother had died. Your bias, be it fisheye or kolll or whoever else, is so ridiculous that people actually consider it sufficient to refer to you when talking about wimps who cry all the time (cf. Idra interview). What surprises me however is that you were actually around when Sen was dominating, crushing every foreigner, taking games from the likes of Savior. I don't get how you can clearly favor ret just because he's had some success lately. Sure, it's arguable that ret's chances were slightly higher due to that and to Sen's inactivity, but it annoys me that people seem to consider this result an upset. You gotta realise at some point that every player left in the TSL can beat any other one, and thank god this is so, otherwise this tournament would be boring. Boy no offense but are u.. 1) So u basicaly say we agree ? Ret was the SLIGHT favourite ( on this level especially in ZvZ no one is a huge fav. and its not a huge upset either.. ) I just gave ret and many others as well a SLIGHT ( ! ) edge.. Seeing ret losing isnt surprising. It was very well in the range of a certain possibilty Seein as it is ZvZ and as Sen & ret are both beats i doubt anyone with a clear mind would have said ret is the CLEAR fav. Its something like 55/45 and ZvZ almost making it a 50/50 thing so what !? 2) For sure everyone can beat any other man what are u even trying to say !? 3) Im no ret fan boy buddy.. Im not sad he lost Im not crying.. I dont even know what u want but u sir seem to have no clue how long ret as been around.. seriously.. Sen is pretty oldschool but believe me.. ret is even longer playing this game.. ( at least as long competetive .. )
Well what you said now is perfectly reasonable. I just didn't have the feeling that this is how most people here felt about the match.
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I think ret became overrated simply by virtue of spending time in Korea. Even though we know the majority of that time was outside of the progamer house which is how you improve, playing their absurd hours against their absurd skill level. Not to mention he basically had to learn to zvz not that long ago.
Looking at it from a reasonable point of view rather than a "I wish he would win so he could recoup some money going to korea" he is the slight underdog against any top foreign zerg in zvz. Whereas he been playing tvz from his home this entire time I would put him as the favorite.
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U guys do understand, that losing a bo5 ZvZ series in such a fashion as ret did doesnt necesserily mean that he wasnt supposed to be looked at as the slight ( ! ) favourite for this series..
But lets drop it. Close series pretty sad that ret still isnt that comfortable with making lings and nothing but lings but its somewhat the key to being good at zvz ( not saying ret isnt ) after all he did fairly well zvz in his last courage ..
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Of course Ret was a favourite for this series, but it was always going to be a difficult series for him. Sen is a relatively unknown quantity in TSL. We all know how good he used to be, but he has largely been off the radar for a while now and nobody really knew what to expect.
I'm sure it would have been difficult for Ret to prepare as there wasn't much of Sen to study and ZvZ is well... ZvZ - BWs most volatile MU.
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On February 14 2010 23:40 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
U guys do understand, that losing a bo5 ZvZ series in such a fashion as ret did doesnt necesserily mean that he wasnt supposed to be looked at as the slight ( ! ) favourite for this series..
But lets drop it. Close series pretty sad that ret still isnt that comfortable with making lings and nothing but lings but its somewhat the key to being good at zvz ( not saying ret isnt ) after all he did fairly well zvz in his last courage ..
He beat one person and that guy from the tv show who is worse than me at zvz.
I think there's reasonable arguments for either of them being the favorite, just not by any significantly large margin. It's just not really an upset for either of them to lose, even if you give one an edge. Maybe for one to 3-0 the other though.
I still wish Ret picked t. His 2 fact tank was one of the reasons I play tvz, he was without a doubt the best foreign tvz in that era
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All this ret vs sen talk gets no where, it happened, sen won over ret. lets get moving. and zvz is based in the details. oh and Ret i think he should go back to TvZ since he is no longer in korea, i think.
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Maybe Ret still lacks a lot of ZvZ-experience which led to some wrong decisions under pressure.
Because, as the word suggests, experience just comes from playing the matchup over and over and over, and the last few months just aren't enough to cut it.
I think it is absolutely legitimate to say that Ret was the favorite in this match, although not by a large margin. Sen is a big name Zerg since forever, and I don't believe Ret underestimated him in any way. His early sunken build suggests to me that he wanted a safe transition into mutalisk fights. But Sen did not back up just because there was a sunken, which a lot of good players actually would do. The outcome of fights between mass lings vs sunken/lings/drones is just so unpredictable.
This being said, at least in game 5 with his complete scouting information and the first four sets in mind, he should have been able to defend it. His adaptation clearly was not the best in that series.
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Ret.. I am dissapoint. But its ok  .
Must say I'm quite impressed by Mondi's overall play!
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  ret played well,  Sen is just very very good..
Btw Why is there no thread for day2?
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EPT
