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Im getting stream lag 
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On February 14 2010 06:49 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 06:48 ShadowDrgn wrote:On February 14 2010 06:46 Piy wrote:
this has to be so demoralizing for fenix Seriously. He was triple Mondragon's supply for over 10 minutes and couldn't make any progress at finishing the game off. Yeah, every time I'm in a really comfortable spot and just sit around waiting to win I feel so crappy. Oh wait, no I don't. You people are crazy.
Yeah. He didnt do any very agressive moves. After he killed mondi's 3rd, he figured he could just starve him
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Please win this Mondi, seriously
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On February 14 2010 05:46 samachking wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 05:40 Mystlord wrote:On February 14 2010 05:31 samachking wrote:On February 14 2010 05:27 Mystlord wrote:On February 14 2010 05:23 OneOther wrote:On February 14 2010 05:22 Mystlord wrote:
And thus we see the problem of living in Korea and practicing with progamers, then coming back to the foreign scene:
The Koreans only do ONE. THING.
Nothing else. ret has had absolutely no practice against such aggression and such unorthodox play. Koreans have like this unspoken agreement to do certain things, but once you step out of that realm... You better learn to get versatile again. is this really true? i mean i think it's more of ret's style and preference. korean zvzs are progamer level and semi-pro/amateur are filled with zergling aggressions all the time. i don't agree that korean zergs all play the way ret does. When you watch Korean progamers, I've never seen such aggressive Zergling attacks from any Korean progamer. They never remove Drones from gas, and once the Spire finishes, it's all Mutalisks from there. You might see a lot of Zerglings when they do 12 pool or 12 hatch, but it's different. On February 14 2010 05:23 Aphasie wrote:On February 14 2010 05:15 Harem wrote:On February 14 2010 05:13 disco wrote:
Since when did ret's zergling micro get bad Sen had speed. Ret didn't. That's a pretty big difference. Yeah, i noticed that too. Weird chill/day9 didnt see that. And even more weird that Ret didnt finish it in time. Whats the point in having 20 lings vs 20 lings if one group doesnt have speed... You "cant" win anyway You don't need speed if you're being defensive. JD did it vs Savior in WL finals, you can do it when the ovie leaves your main after he sees the spire. Also heavy speedling is standard when both players 12hat infact if you check a lot of games on python they end up mostly to be ling vs ling battles and most 12hat vs 12hat are pure ling into muta, you dont build drones. Also effort played the same style as sen last season which became really popular, except he built spores after the ling harass. But you see, that's map conducive. ret's been in Korea for the past 3 months playing Fighting Spirit, Neo Moon Glaive, and Heartbreak Ridge. Those maps have certain styles associated with them. Effort's play last season was on the relatively same maps that are used in the TSL (Desti, Outsider, Andro), which are certainly conducive to ling play (well, not Desti and not Outsider to a certain extent). Anyway, the point that I'm trying to make here is that on the maps that ret's playing on, there's a certain play style associated with them that ret has just no practice with because hasn't had too much time with. hmm, I think 12hat vs 12hat pure ling is standard on any map, can you find me a recent game with 12hat vs 12hat without pure ling to muta, I am just curious, I thought it was the standard style and I see no reason to change that except on maybe desti where the brides are easy to defend.
Err see below. Korean Progamers inevitably switch to Mutas once the Spire is done. Sen foregos Mutas in favor of lings.
On February 14 2010 05:56 Harem wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 05:40 Mystlord wrote:On February 14 2010 05:31 samachking wrote:On February 14 2010 05:27 Mystlord wrote:On February 14 2010 05:23 OneOther wrote:On February 14 2010 05:22 Mystlord wrote:
And thus we see the problem of living in Korea and practicing with progamers, then coming back to the foreign scene:
The Koreans only do ONE. THING.
Nothing else. ret has had absolutely no practice against such aggression and such unorthodox play. Koreans have like this unspoken agreement to do certain things, but once you step out of that realm... You better learn to get versatile again. is this really true? i mean i think it's more of ret's style and preference. korean zvzs are progamer level and semi-pro/amateur are filled with zergling aggressions all the time. i don't agree that korean zergs all play the way ret does. When you watch Korean progamers, I've never seen such aggressive Zergling attacks from any Korean progamer. They never remove Drones from gas, and once the Spire finishes, it's all Mutalisks from there. You might see a lot of Zerglings when they do 12 pool or 12 hatch, but it's different. On February 14 2010 05:23 Aphasie wrote:On February 14 2010 05:15 Harem wrote:On February 14 2010 05:13 disco wrote:
Since when did ret's zergling micro get bad Sen had speed. Ret didn't. That's a pretty big difference. Yeah, i noticed that too. Weird chill/day9 didnt see that. And even more weird that Ret didnt finish it in time. Whats the point in having 20 lings vs 20 lings if one group doesnt have speed... You "cant" win anyway You don't need speed if you're being defensive. JD did it vs Savior in WL finals, you can do it when the ovie leaves your main after he sees the spire. Also heavy speedling is standard when both players 12hat infact if you check a lot of games on python they end up mostly to be ling vs ling battles and most 12hat vs 12hat are pure ling into muta, you dont build drones. Also effort played the same style as sen last season which became really popular, except he built spores after the ling harass. But you see, that's map conducive. ret's been in Korea for the past 3 months playing Fighting Spirit, Neo Moon Glaive, and Heartbreak Ridge. Those maps have certain styles associated with them. Effort's play last season was on the relatively same maps that are used in the TSL (Desti, Outsider, Andro), which are certainly conducive to ling play (well, not Desti and not Outsider to a certain extent). Anyway, the point that I'm trying to make here is that on the maps that ret's playing on, there's a certain play style associated with them that ret has just no practice with because hasn't had too much time with. Err, heavy ling play is really nice on Moon and is more standard. If you want progame examples then effort vs hyuk and jd vs roro.
I think I probably wasn't clear in my post since I just started rambling after a point. I'm not disputing that there's heavy ling play, I'm disputing the foregoing of Mutalisks in favor of Lings. Sen cut Drones from gas and completely skipped Mutalisks in favor of lings. ret would have been fine Sen not done that. ret also made serious mistakes in not pumping enough lings and in positioning, but still, his ling count was solid enough to hold off a "normal" amount of lings.
Then again, I am completely oversimplifying things so, so much, but whatever.
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On February 14 2010 06:51 Keniji wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 06:48 BalloonFight wrote:On February 14 2010 06:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I'm not impressed with mondragons macro. He has a lot of money banked, he could add on an extra hatch imo ROFL Actually he's right. There is no way you should have 1k/1k with 2 bases - which he had at sometime. (only talking about the forth game ofc.) Even tho fenix did a great job on riding his advantage to victory I didn't liked his vessel play nor his lack of firebats. When you have such a huge advantage you should definitely make more firebats to deny the swarm use. But overall great macro and play by fenix anyway.
looool
ok
please show me your ability to macro perfectly while holding off absolutely insane odds with godlike defiler control
and it boggles my mind that the official observer can KNOW HE IS CAUSING LAG IN THE GAME from his updating antivirus and NOT leave
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wtf - the observer lag was when the game was played? that's a huge penalty for micro-intensive mutalisks
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On February 14 2010 06:53 BalloonFight wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 06:51 Keniji wrote:On February 14 2010 06:48 BalloonFight wrote:On February 14 2010 06:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I'm not impressed with mondragons macro. He has a lot of money banked, he could add on an extra hatch imo ROFL Actually he's right. There is no way you should have 1k/1k with 2 bases - which he had at sometime. (only talking about the forth game ofc.) Even tho fenix did a great job on riding his advantage to victory I didn't liked his vessel play nor his lack of firebats. When you have such a huge advantage you should definitely make more firebats to deny the swarm use. But overall great macro and play by fenix anyway. looool ok please show me your ability to macro perfectly while holding off absolutely insane odds with godlike defiler control and it boggles my mind that the official observer can KNOW HE IS CAUSING LAG IN THE GAME from his updating antivirus and NOT leave
No, I understand that his attention need to be focused on his micro just to survive and that mondi isn't the cleanest player as far as multitask, but it would have been ideal.
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3 sunkens going up - mondi pretty safe
expo cc going up
lair more than half done
comsats going up
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both rax idle for a long time
eng bay going up
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spire going up - despite earlier lag mondi still trying
haha fenix scans the mini-mineral only and deny mining for a short time
range being researched
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ebay not researching anything
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3rd rax up
mnm stim to try to kill overlord - no dice
4 firebats, 6 rines, 2 medics at mondi's nat door
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9 mutas out - den almost done
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i wonder why fenix always delays his +1 so much
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muta harass take out 2 turrets 2 scv's and a bunch of mnm, 2 mutas lost?
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mondi taking 5
I think fenix delays ups to get a few more units earlier
but ups are so cheap
lurker aspect evolving
as well as queen's nest? not sure on this one
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lol, marines and mutas dancing with each other xD
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United States10774 Posts
noticed this a while ago but mondi's muta control improved so much damn
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On February 14 2010 06:53 BalloonFight wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 06:51 Keniji wrote:On February 14 2010 06:48 BalloonFight wrote:On February 14 2010 06:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I'm not impressed with mondragons macro. He has a lot of money banked, he could add on an extra hatch imo ROFL Actually he's right. There is no way you should have 1k/1k with 2 bases - which he had at sometime. (only talking about the forth game ofc.) Even tho fenix did a great job on riding his advantage to victory I didn't liked his vessel play nor his lack of firebats. When you have such a huge advantage you should definitely make more firebats to deny the swarm use. But overall great macro and play by fenix anyway. looool ok please show me your ability to macro perfectly while holding off absolutely insane odds with godlike defiler control and it boggles my mind that the official observer can KNOW HE IS CAUSING LAG IN THE GAME from his updating antivirus and NOT leave
yea right, because I play in the Ro8 of TSL and therefore i should be able to do what these players should be able to do (or not). What a stupid comment.
And still, even tho he had godlike micro and really focused on it it's still NOT good macro from mondragon when he has 1k/1k.
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EPT
