Action < Bisu Really > fantasy Flying > soO hyvaa > BeSt
eSTRO 3 - 1 SKT
I love Flying, he looks like a korean Woody Allen. Really hype will skyrocket after this game even if he loses. I want Bisu to lose, I'm gonna make fun of every single Bisu fanboy out there. Action fighting.
A lot of people are picking Really, and I would too b/c i'm a fan, but realistically I don't think he's a favorite. Historically he is average at TvT, and a win like the one in the last series that he had isn't neccessarily indiciative of his overall TvT play.
Having said that, I reallllly hope he wins. If action beats Bisu, the chances of a 3-0 are very real.
On January 13 2010 07:39 zazen wrote: Action < Bisu Really > fantasy Flying > soO hyvaa > BeSt
eSTRO 3 - 1 SKT
I love Flying, he looks like a korean Woody Allen. Really hype will skyrocket after this game even if he loses. I want Bisu to lose, I'm gonna make fun of every single Bisu fanboy out there. Action fighting.
Korean Woody Allen lol!
someone else said Really was on a 10 game TvP streak? Goddamn. I did not know that. He'll be sent out for ACE for sure, but I think it will be Really vs Fantasy.
Moon Glaive isn't good for PvT, so SKT may field Fantasy again if it gets there, but eSTRO may anticapte this and field Upmagic. Ofc, SKT could double blind them and send Bisu out in that case. O.o Hope it gets to ACE.
Action is good, but Bisu's better. Fantasy will avenge his good friend Flash. Soo is gonna show the world why he is T1's #1 Zerg! O.. I guess Best doesn't get to roflroll hyvaa. Easy breezy.
I like the predictions of the OP. Flying should beat soo without a problem. Really vs Fantasy can go either way, but I hope Really wins so at least we can get to the ace match or hyvaa just goes and wins it.
If it goes to the ace match, SKT's safest pick would be fantasy. He is already practicing for TvT so he should have a few builds ready. Although TvZ is not his best matchup, he is coming off a big win off of Zero on the same map and I feel Zero is more dangerous than the estro zergs. Really for the rematch or Upmagic should be the choices for estro. This should be a good set. Hoping for some good games.
dammit, i hate this map pool. soo many T maps that Bisu never gets a double appearance in the Ace matches. neo moon glaive is a perfect example of how stats lie lol, its 83% PvT, but look at the games and its all ppl like frozean, go.go, and last getting owned, but its obviously a T map with 16 TvT's compared to like 1-3 other mirrors.
Guys come we are talking about Bisu here, the guy with 3 MSLs, if anyone can defy the map imbalance, its Bisu (I know people will start saying that he blame the maps and everything lol)
I'm really excited to see bisu pvz. I am ready for the best protoss in the world to start playing like it again.
I hope he dominates in WL so that jaedong and flash aren't alone at the top!
Also hyvaa needs to step up his game. He is brilliant strategically. He is the genius zerg, NOT calm but he chokes so hard on tv that his lackluster mechanics show more then his brilliant strategy.
This is really interesting. Estro is on fire and I think they can take the match. Really could very well win two matches if SKT1 gets so far. Action > Bisu wouldn't surprise me at all.
On January 13 2010 10:37 IPS.ZeRo wrote: This is really interesting. Estro is on fire and I think they can take the match. Really could very well win two matches if SKT1 gets so far. Action > Bisu wouldn't surprise me at all.
I am not the greatest fan of Bisu but Action > Bisu would be a surprise. Bisu won last 7 games vZ and seems to be in decent shape in this match-up. So if Action beats Bisu in straight game it would be an upset.
I think this is one of the better head-on lineups for estro they could have hoped for, and have a real chance of winning.
gosi-flying will destroy soo, really is rather strong tvt, and best is playing a pvz...
Still, I hope Fantasy can really prove himself to be a solid, consistent winning terran and live up to his supposed position as the 2nd best terran at the moment. And with Best mixing up his vT, perhaps his vZ is getting a (positive) shakeup too. Play Canata more!
It looks pretty even but I'd give a slight advantage to SKT1 for having better ace players if it gets to it. Hopefully eSTRO can continue its streak though.
On January 13 2010 12:35 Mystlord wrote: The other match without Flash is worthless. I'm pretty sure I will learn absolutely nothing from any of those players. Thus, I'll be doing this one.
speedlots surround and kill the cannons, start harassing probes, only 2 left tho and they are cleaned up quickly. wow fail that had so much potential and ended up with very little. Mutas out tho.
Epic defense saves Bisu from the mutas, loses very few probes, Bisu loses the reaver for about 8 drones. multi-task taking over as he also cleared Action's third with zlots AND set up his third. Second reaver drop doesnt do as much
Nice~ Bisu had such a bad start but after so many razor thin moments, it seems he's in control. Now I think Matchpoint will more or less play itself out.
Bisu now has full 3 bases and getting his mineral only vs. Action's 3 base barely and he hasn't rebuilt his bottom right hatchery yet. THis looks clearly winning for Bisu unless... Yeah it's clearly winning for Bisu.
I'm pretty sure once the second zealot/reaver split attack came and 5's hatch fell it was over. It's not easy to make a comeback vs a player like Bisu from that kinda deficit.
Outclassed in that game. Action isn't exactly good, he obviously showed in that game he doesn't have the confidence to play late game hive. Another mediocre lair tech zerg. His multitask/apm looks really low as well, as he can't properly fend off multiple harass at once.
On January 13 2010 13:30 KizZBG wrote: Wouldn't it have been much better for Action if he just droppped/took down 6? :S
I'm assuming he was expecting there to be more cannons than there were, which is why he didn't even realize he could harass with Mutalisks until quite a while later.
I thought Action did a pretty good job dealing with the harass... I mean he was behind but he didn't fall apart. His doom was throwing away his entire army in that drop and having nothing to back it up with.
I still think the coolest moment that game was when Bisu had 2 cannons and 1 goon and held that big ling attack. I was like WHAAA NO WAY!
Action found a really nice gap in the defence but.. Bisu somehow still magically held. Even after losing so many early minerals... what the hell... That was seriously mind boggling to me.
On January 13 2010 13:32 SuperJongMan wrote: I still think the coolest moment that game was when Bisu had 2 cannons and 1 goon and held that big ling attack. I was like WHAAA NO WAY!
Action found a really nice gap in the defence but.. Bisu somehow still magically held. Even after losing so many early minerals... what the hell... That was seriously mind boggling to me.
On January 13 2010 13:28 tree.hugger wrote: That was really patient, excellent play from Bisu. I'm impressed.
that wasn't impressive at all, as a matter of fact bisu was playing like a scrub pretty hard in the beginning there
he put a very poor effort into keeping his corsairs alive, if action wasn't so bad his shuttle would have been dead like proper
after killing all of bisu's corsairs (twice), action had complete air superiority. bisu didn't have any gateways at that point, so the correct way to proceed is to move overlords out so you can see shit coming, and prevent him from harassing you while you get a fourth gas. this is a GIGANTIC advantage, and you can basically do whatever you want
action's version is to never upgrade overlord speed and fall prey to surprise zealots and reaver drops for ten minutes before surrendering. i don't see how having a game handed to you on a silver platter is impressive!
On January 13 2010 13:34 SuperJongMan wrote: You guys forget how fast Bisu got 3 gas. 3 gas's ability to replenish gas units is completely different from 2.
On January 13 2010 13:33 Xxio wrote: I don't know why Action was so bent on breaking into Bisu's main. He could have easily broke his 3rd with those mass mutas, or just macrod up.
He was probably panicking after getting harassed so many times and didn't think things through. Could tell from how he didn't repopulate his 5 o clock.
On January 13 2010 13:34 SuperJongMan wrote: You guys forget how fast Bisu got 3 gas. 3 gas's ability to replenish gas units is completely different from 2.
On January 13 2010 13:28 tree.hugger wrote: That was really patient, excellent play from Bisu. I'm impressed.
that wasn't impressive at all, as a matter of fact bisu was playing like a scrub pretty hard in the beginning there
he put a very poor effort into keeping his corsairs alive, if action wasn't so bad his shuttle would have been dead like proper
after killing all of bisu's corsairs (twice), action had complete air superiority. bisu didn't have any gateways at that point, so the correct way to proceed is to move overlords out so you can see shit coming, and prevent him from harassing you while you get a fourth gas. this is a GIGANTIC advantage, and you can basically do whatever you want
action's version is to never upgrade overlord speed and fall prey to surprise zealots and reaver drops for ten minutes before surrendering. i don't see how having a game handed to you on a silver platter is impressive!
Bisu put up at least one more gateway when he put up the second stargate, long before killing the corsairs a second time
On January 13 2010 13:28 tree.hugger wrote: That was really patient, excellent play from Bisu. I'm impressed.
that wasn't impressive at all, as a matter of fact bisu was playing like a scrub pretty hard in the beginning there
he put a very poor effort into keeping his corsairs alive, if action wasn't so bad his shuttle would have been dead like proper
after killing all of bisu's corsairs (twice), action had complete air superiority. bisu didn't have any gateways at that point, so the correct way to proceed is to move overlords out so you can see shit coming, and prevent him from harassing you while you get a fourth gas. this is a GIGANTIC advantage, and you can basically do whatever you want
action's version is to never upgrade overlord speed and fall prey to surprise zealots and reaver drops for ten minutes before surrendering. i don't see how having a game handed to you on a silver platter is impressive!
This is a very good point, but wasn't action's move to mass mutas and scourge?
This is functionally equivalent w/o dark templar in play, right?
Also, Bisu seemed to have plenty of corsairs despite showing poor micro (I agree with you) since he had two stargates up.
On January 13 2010 13:28 tree.hugger wrote: That was really patient, excellent play from Bisu. I'm impressed.
that wasn't impressive at all, as a matter of fact bisu was playing like a scrub pretty hard in the beginning there
he put a very poor effort into keeping his corsairs alive, if action wasn't so bad his shuttle would have been dead like proper
after killing all of bisu's corsairs (twice), action had complete air superiority. bisu didn't have any gateways at that point, so the correct way to proceed is to move overlords out so you can see shit coming, and prevent him from harassing you while you get a fourth gas. this is a GIGANTIC advantage, and you can basically do whatever you want
action's version is to never upgrade overlord speed and fall prey to surprise zealots and reaver drops for ten minutes before surrendering. i don't see how having a game handed to you on a silver platter is impressive!
Bisu put up at least one more gateway when he put up the second stargate, long before killing the corsairs a second time
i don't mean "any" literally. he didn't have enough gateways to make an army large enough to threaten action's ability to expand freely at any point in that game. declining that advantage to hydra drop a three fucking gas protoss is a horrible idea
Since reading about Artosis plus Really, I've been paying attention to his games a lot more. He's been winning a lot, and garnered a lot of attention with his breakthrough against Flash.
On January 13 2010 13:28 tree.hugger wrote: That was really patient, excellent play from Bisu. I'm impressed.
that wasn't impressive at all, as a matter of fact bisu was playing like a scrub pretty hard in the beginning there
he put a very poor effort into keeping his corsairs alive, if action wasn't so bad his shuttle would have been dead like proper
after killing all of bisu's corsairs (twice), action had complete air superiority. bisu didn't have any gateways at that point, so the correct way to proceed is to move overlords out so you can see shit coming, and prevent him from harassing you while you get a fourth gas. this is a GIGANTIC advantage, and you can basically do whatever you want
action's version is to never upgrade overlord speed and fall prey to surprise zealots and reaver drops for ten minutes before surrendering. i don't see how having a game handed to you on a silver platter is impressive!
Bisu put up at least one more gateway when he put up the second stargate, long before killing the corsairs a second time
i don't mean "any" literally. he didn't have enough gateways to make an army large enough to threaten action's ability to expand freely at any point in that game. declining that advantage to hydra drop a three fucking gas protoss is a horrible idea
Indeed after seeing the corsairs die over and over i thought bisu had lost so i stopped watching in favor of playing a game of smash, ^.^, but.. later to know that the next game starts and its 0:1 in skt's favor i got wtf :O
On January 13 2010 13:28 tree.hugger wrote: That was really patient, excellent play from Bisu. I'm impressed.
that wasn't impressive at all, as a matter of fact bisu was playing like a scrub pretty hard in the beginning there
he put a very poor effort into keeping his corsairs alive, if action wasn't so bad his shuttle would have been dead like proper
after killing all of bisu's corsairs (twice), action had complete air superiority. bisu didn't have any gateways at that point, so the correct way to proceed is to move overlords out so you can see shit coming, and prevent him from harassing you while you get a fourth gas. this is a GIGANTIC advantage, and you can basically do whatever you want
action's version is to never upgrade overlord speed and fall prey to surprise zealots and reaver drops for ten minutes before surrendering. i don't see how having a game handed to you on a silver platter is impressive!
This is a very good point, but wasn't action's move to mass mutas and scourge?
This is functionally equivalent w/o dark templar in play, right?
Also, Bisu seemed to have plenty of corsairs despite showing poor micro (I agree with you) since he had two stargates up.
it's definitely not equivalent, the game plays out the same regardless of whether there is one or two stargates. if anything, that should have further encouraged action to react with a fourth gas and flawless defense. Bisu's corsair fleet was never really big enough for a direct confrontation, even with the two stargates. the difference between one stargate and two is that two stargate builds limit you later on as far as the "do whatever you want" lategame is concerned. it's still a huge advantage.
Well Fantasy just traded 2 of his tanks for 4 of Really's, but his 12 gets cancelled and he cant defend the 3. 2 base vs 4 really going for the triple expand and canceling Fantasy's 3 as well. Fantasy mines out his main that ninja expo was a bad idea
i think it was never done before on TV, at least i didnt see it. Fantasy dropped a tank in front of incoming units to prevent them from sniping a mine( really entering ninja expo with tanks)
How do you lose that bad when up a base for that long, should have just went straight up 6 fac timing and overpowered Really when he had the opportunity.
On January 13 2010 13:53 OneOther wrote: officially 2nd best terran!
In TvT, yes, by a little bit. In TvP, we can't really say since fantasy hasn't played the MU in a long time. Best MU for both really. And not enough evidence from Really in TvZ.
Different styles, imo. If I had to say, about even on aggregate.
Really is maturing in front of our eyes. He's clearly good at TvT, and historically his best MU is TvP. If he sures up his TvZ he can go far in the SLs.
On January 13 2010 13:53 OneOther wrote: officially 2nd best terran!
In TvT, yes, by a little bit. In TvP, we can't really say since fantasy hasn't played the MU in a long time. Best MU for both really. And not enough evidence from Really in TvZ.
Different styles, imo. If I had to say, about even on aggregate.
Right now he's better at TvT, I won't comment on TvP, but Really's had the best results aside from Flash in that MU. TvZ isn't too relevant since Fantasy's is subpar compared to other good terran's, but Fantasy is probably better at it, though not by much.
You guys are seriously jumping the gun here... After 22 wins, Flash was bound to lose sometime. If this comes down to Ace, and Bisu vs Really happens, Bisu will win. There's no question.
On January 13 2010 14:01 OSWater wrote: You guys are seriously jumping the gun here... After 22 wins, Flash was bound to lose sometime. If this comes down to Ace, and Bisu vs Really happens, Bisu will win. There's no question.
Considering Really is like 10-0 in his last 10 TvP, I think there is plenty of question about that.
On January 13 2010 14:01 OSWater wrote: You guys are seriously jumping the gun here... After 22 wins, Flash was bound to lose sometime. If this comes down to Ace, and Bisu vs Really happens, Bisu will win. There's no question.
Even if Flash was "bound to lose sometime" people didn't question that he would win.
Really could definitely take a game off of Bisu if it happens.
Seeing how Bisu's weakest MU atm is PvT, Really's best is TvP, and the match is Moon Glaive, I'd put them at even odds if it happens.
On January 13 2010 14:01 OSWater wrote: You guys are seriously jumping the gun here... After 22 wins, Flash was bound to lose sometime. If this comes down to Ace, and Bisu vs Really happens, Bisu will win. There's no question.
On January 13 2010 14:01 OSWater wrote: You guys are seriously jumping the gun here... After 22 wins, Flash was bound to lose sometime. If this comes down to Ace, and Bisu vs Really happens, Bisu will win. There's no question.
I'd like to believe you're right, but Really is playing exceptionally well right now.
And Bisu has always been stronger in individual leagues than in Proleague.
On January 13 2010 14:04 Avidkeystamper wrote: Seeing how Bisu's weakest MU atm is PvT, Really's best is TvP, and the match is Moon Glaive, I'd put them at even odds if it happens.
On January 13 2010 14:01 OSWater wrote: You guys are seriously jumping the gun here... After 22 wins, Flash was bound to lose sometime. If this comes down to Ace, and Bisu vs Really happens, Bisu will win. There's no question.
Gambler's fallacy.
Pretty sure Really's best matchup is now TvT since he just decimated 2 top players with style and flawless play.
On January 13 2010 14:01 OSWater wrote: You guys are seriously jumping the gun here... After 22 wins, Flash was bound to lose sometime. If this comes down to Ace, and Bisu vs Really happens, Bisu will win. There's no question.
I'd like to believe you're right, but Really is playing exceptionally well right now.
And Bisu has always been stronger in individual leagues than in Proleague.
On January 13 2010 14:04 Avidkeystamper wrote: Seeing how Bisu's weakest MU atm is PvT, Really's best is TvP, and the match is Moon Glaive, I'd put them at even odds if it happens.
On January 13 2010 14:01 OSWater wrote: You guys are seriously jumping the gun here... After 22 wins, Flash was bound to lose sometime. If this comes down to Ace, and Bisu vs Really happens, Bisu will win. There's no question.
Gambler's fallacy.
Pretty sure Really's best matchup is now TvT since he just decimated 2 top players with style and flawless play.
It's debatable, he's been beasting at TvP longer, but has faced lesser opponents. Point is his TvP is pretty good nonetheless.
On January 13 2010 14:03 tree.hugger wrote: Coming off of [fantasy v. Really] into [Barracks v. MVP] is like coming out of Manhattan into New Jersey. You just have to speed up and ignore it.
On January 13 2010 14:09 nodule wrote: 2 wins does not a best matchup make
just sayin'
Agree. remember when Hyuk 2-0d Effort and JD straight up with no BO adv? hows that gone for him?
While I agree with you as to the Really TvT thing, Really has always showed promise while Hyuk has always showed the opposite of that. It's not really comparable.
hmmm i didn't like fantasy's build for a couple of reasons
it seems to rely on the opponent being bad, or at least bad in one of two ways: the opponent must lose his dropship and units while harassing, or the opponent must not use his dropship to scout the map something like so, if his harass attempt is ineffective:
basically the opponent has to make a dropship but be pretty bad not to scout the expansion. that's not an unreasonable ploy i guess, but not something i would think you'd bank a proleague game on.
further to that, the fact that fantasy contains the opponent with mines means that the opponent will make a dropship 99% of the time, and even if they're not catching on that fantasy has another base somewhere, there's still a 50/50 shot they'll see the hidden expansion because they won't just fly through the middle over a bunch of mines with their dropship
so we're left with something a good player will scout for (because they'll realize there's a hidden expansion), and something a bad player will probably scout by accident. it doesn't give you enough of an economic boost in TvT to be worthwhile if the opponent finds it quickly enough, and there's a large window that defines "quickly enough".
once its not hidden anymore, it's just an expansion, and it's pretty far away. the opponent already has more factories than you, and he will have a dropship as well. that's why you don't expand out in the middle of nowhere in TvT
On January 13 2010 14:19 psion0011 wrote: Having to rely on hyvaa is never a pleasant position to be sitting in, but on the other hand we might see Really vs Bisu!
On the other hand, having to rely on Best (vZ) isn't a pleasant position to be in either.
This win is probably against my principles or something? I mean I'm happy for you SKT1, and imma let you finish. But your Zergs are some of the worst of all time.
On January 13 2010 14:34 Mystlord wrote: Oh Best... Not as bad as it could have been, since we got 2 very injured probes from Hyvaa running in Best's main.
Hyvva transitioning into a hydra break it seems. Best with 2 stargates, 1 gateway and no units other than sairs. Ace match time... WTF SCOURGE FAIL BEST HAS LIKE 6 SAIRS AND AIR SUPERIORITY NOW?! but he still has no ground troops and no templar tech, hes going to get rolled over
Ouch. Not enough Hydras and fail storm dodging from hyvaa... Combined with the most horrible Muta harass I've ever seen... = Best pwning hyvaa's natural and going to pwn his main.
Hyvaa lost it because he never set up a good position with lurkers, when he rarely used them, when fighting. Oh well, BeSt macro still looking sharp. Very typical game.
I liked Hyvaa's timings on everything. Try to do the muta harass and just sort of kind of kill some cannons and corsair, then build a ton of scourge but stop building mutas. Then sac all the scourge just chasing the corsairs, that Best continued to make on 2 stargates.
Then send a giant clump of overlords over to Best's base so hyvaa could look at best's gigantic line of cannons, which hyvaa fully scouted then decided he would just go ahead and try to break with like 1 ctrl group of hydras.
Then when he obv got raped by cannons, he stands outside the base rallying more hydras. Best comes in with zeals AND corsairs and massacres all the OLs and half the hydras. In exchange for liek 3-4 zealots.
Best responded extremely well to everything Hyvaa threw at him. When he realized he was behind from those initial lings he made 2 starports in anticpiation of mutas. He did great this game, sniping that 4th base with a 4 zealot drop, defending Hyvaa's drops well, and positioning his sairs and goons at the edge of his main to counter future drops.
Best is now a lot better at the non-macro aspects of the game, although he by no means is super at it, I'm happy to see it: it's actually this change that's really allowing him to get to the macro style game he excels at. Things like pylon'ing the zerg nat - he'd never do that before. And the storms were not bad at all!
I thought Action had the right ideas but Bisu just wtf'd him that game. Fantasy... lol... you noob. Soo, Heroic. Spittin image of GoRush. =). Best was terrible, but he somehow clubbed the zerg to death, hooray.
great showing from BeSt, I love these PvZ where the Zerg just powers off 3base and the Toss has to scramble to establish a 3rd but, when he can amass a large enough ball, pushes out and steamrolls the Zerg
I think 2 stargate sairs are pretty important to truly keep mutalisks, whenever zerg decides to use them, from really ruining mineral lines and sniping templar. In this game they even worked indirectly against the hydra by forcing the zerg that brought his overlords with his hydra to decide between defending his overlords or repelling the ground attack.
I really think estro is strongest when they put double Terrans (aka Really and Upmagic) in their lineup. Well, it could have been worse though. At least Really is slowly showing that he is no pushover~
Really is crazy nutso insano, beating Flash and Fantasy back to back, and being on a 10 game TvP winstreak to boot. Now he just needs to beat up some good Zergs and he'll be a strong contender for 2nd best Terran.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/keit/Proleague0910.jpg)
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Action < Match Point > 
Bisu![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/444.jpg)
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Really < Fighting Spirit > ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/643.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/583.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/16.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/liquibet/players/noimage.jpg)
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