We bring you the OSL, Zerg whose magic micro greet children of all ages, from six to 60, into a tinsel and spun-candy world of reckless beauty and mounting laughter and whirling thrills; of rhythm, excitement and grace; of blaring and daring and dance; of high-stepping hydras and high-flying scourge. But behind all this, the OSL is a massive machine whose very life depends on discipline and motion and speed. A mechanized army on wheels, that rolls over any obstacle in its path, that meets calamity again and again, but always comes up smiling. A place where disaster and tragedy stalk the big top, haunt the backyard, and ride the OSL train. Where slumps are constantly watching for one frayed expansion, one weak link, or one trace of fear. A fierce, primitive fighting force that smashes relentlessly forward against impossible odds. That is the OSL. And this is the story of the biggest of the big tops, and of the men and women who fight to make it the greatest show in starcraft.
On October 16 2009 18:05 Kazius wrote: We bring you the OSL, Zerg whose magic micro greet children of all ages, from six to 60, into a tinsel and spun-candy world of reckless beauty and mounting laughter and whirling thrills; of rhythm, excitement and grace; of blaring and daring and dance; of high-stepping hydras and high-flying scourge. But behind all this, the OSL is a massive machine whose very life depends on discipline and motion and speed. A mechanized army on wheels, that rolls over any obstacle in its path, that meets calamity again and again, but always comes up smiling. A place where disaster and tragedy stalk the big top, haunt the backyard, and ride the OSL train. Where slumps are constantly watching for one frayed expansion, one weak link, or one trace of fear. A fierce, primitive fighting force that smashes relentlessly forward against impossible odds. That is the OSL. And this is the story of the biggest of the big tops, and of the men and women who fight to make it the greatest show in starcraft.
Are you psyched already?
Cool quote. Let's get this party started! set: "Dragoon = 1" go BackHo!
Reality going mech, looks like defenses will be ready in time. Reality's goliath use pretty unfortunate as it doesn't manage to stop the mutalisk onslaught... and Calm uses the attack as a perfect time to expand, just as the tactic is becoming less effective (due to charon upgrade).
Calm's fourth is soon up, siege backup here, irradiate soon to follow - the push needs to come soon, because hivetech is coming soon and 2-base terran against 4-base ultras is never good.
I think Calm is way ahead - Reality was left with 3 tanks and is still working off 2 bases while rebuilding his army from scratch, while calm has hivetech and is running off 5 bases (4 running, one nearly done).
On October 16 2009 18:58 below66 wrote: holy shit? why gg so fast he had 15 tanks and calm had all his units dead, i know he might of lost in the longrun but he gg's early
theres a tutorial in featured threads on how to sign up for an OGN account with lagless stream, i dontunderstand why you guys keep asking for streams on ogn games
On October 16 2009 18:58 Kyuki wrote: That was a really shitty game... While Calm could afford to play sloppy, that was just horrible to watch at times.
*shrug* I thought it was an educational game as far as what not to do for mech TvZ.
just gotta say, i love the quality of streams nowadays. everythings so smooth and hq. just remember back 1 or even 2 yrs shit was so bad compared to right now lol
On October 16 2009 19:00 [DUF]MethodMan wrote: just gotta say, i love the quality of streams nowadays. everythings so smooth and hq. just remember back 1 or even 2 yrs shit was so bad compared to right now lol
On October 16 2009 19:00 [DUF]MethodMan wrote: just gotta say, i love the quality of streams nowadays. everythings so smooth and hq. just remember back 1 or even 2 yrs shit was so bad compared to right now lol
"OH GOD DAUM SLIDESHOW"
yea lol that was exactly what i was thinking about. or all that tvants stuff, even tho tvants was the best then tt
On October 16 2009 18:58 Kyuki wrote: That was a really shitty game... While Calm could afford to play sloppy, that was just horrible to watch at times.
*shrug* I thought it was an educational game as far as what not to do for mech TvZ.
What not to do ZvMech when you're that far ahead is constantly throw units in a stream at the tank line. That's the only way that terran is ever going to get back into the game. Calm was understandably impatient.
On October 16 2009 19:00 [DUF]MethodMan wrote: just gotta say, i love the quality of streams nowadays. everythings so smooth and hq. just remember back 1 or even 2 yrs shit was so bad compared to right now lol
No man, about 1 year back was when high quality VLC streams were posted everyday. Those streams were like watching a replay when full-screened, everything was so sharp it looked you were actually running starcraft.
It's still great now, and actually less taxing on my bandwith, I'm just saying.
On October 16 2009 18:58 Kyuki wrote: That was a really shitty game... While Calm could afford to play sloppy, that was just horrible to watch at times.
*shrug* I thought it was an educational game as far as what not to do for mech TvZ.
What not to do ZvMech when you're that far ahead is constantly throw units in a stream at the tank line. That's the only way that terran is ever going to get back into the game. Calm was understandably impatient.
What are you talking about? Calm was so ahead by then, trading armies worked out great for him. It's not like he didn't kill ALL of reality's tanks with every wave.
This time, much smoother expanding from Reality, armory built so we'll be seeing goliaths again, but this time it looks like the turret placement is better.
Does anyone else not like the recent Terran trend of playing Mech vs. zerg?
Bio had so much micro on both sides. Running in with lings and lurkers while dropping swarms in an attempt to get a surround on a fast-moving Terran army, the Terran stimming, dealing damage and pulling back just in the nick of time - Muta micro being absolutely key in keeping you just out of the range of marines... Those were the good old days.
Now, with the terran so out-ranging the zerg in everything, micro is much less important. It's all about who can mass up the biggest army and win that one huge battle that tends to happen when Terran pushes for base number 3. Lots of hydras, and lots of boring.
I miss the micro-intensive armies dashing everywhere. Watching an entire platoon of marines empty round after round into that one ultralisk that just. won't. go. down. I miss yesteryear. Plus now we're never going to see marines ever again. They weren't in TvP, they weren't in TvT, now they're not in TvZ. To the Terran Marine: We hardly knew ye.
Everyone needs to watch these vods for a textbook play to deal with pure mech tvz, it just doesnt work anymore. JDs Desti vMech games and Kwanro vMech play are good examples too.
Hydra pincer attack slices through Reality's army like a machete through butter, Calm calmly throwing away the remains of his hydra force.... but still, he's running off 4 bases, soon 5, while Reality is still at two.
On October 16 2009 19:30 evanthebouncy! wrote: That's just calm's style, he likes backstabs and some aggression. But he's very smart, notice he never commits to any of those unless it can benefit.
Hence that he is the Brain Zerg.
Edit: Backho isn't doing that bad vs zerg recently, he is 5-5 in his last 10 games.
the dt sneak into main won his the game, if it wasnt for that he would have lost edit: they just showed it agaiN, he let it live HE FUCKING LET IT LIVE
Jaedong prolly pracitced with backho as hell, as said in Jaedongs interview, Backho was the only one who asked Jaedong for practice. (And JD wants revenge for that MSL, remember ? :D)
On October 16 2009 19:56 Scorch wrote: I don't know why Backho always goes so far in tournaments although he's an average player. Kinda like the opposite of what Sea used to be.
On October 16 2009 19:56 Scorch wrote: I don't know why Backho always goes so far in tournaments although he's an average player. Kinda like the opposite of what Sea used to be.
He's better than Free.
you are an idiot to think backho is overall a better player than free
On October 16 2009 19:56 Scorch wrote: I don't know why Backho always goes so far in tournaments although he's an average player. Kinda like the opposite of what Sea used to be.
He's better than Free.
you are an idiot to think backho is overall a better player than free
Calling me an idiot without a solid argument makes you an idiot.
On October 16 2009 20:03 alffla wrote: can anyone give me a quick recap of what special build was used in previouis game? :D
basically just 1 corsair, really fast DT:s and something like 12 total which attacked different spots (at least the 8 last) to draw away calms attention. ended up with 1 dt still in calms main and boom.
On October 16 2009 20:03 alffla wrote: can anyone give me a quick recap of what special build was used in previouis game? :D
Backho went for standard Forge FE build with 1 corsair, the strange thing that he massed like 8 dt's which were not succesful at first and killed off. Then backho came with 4 DT's and 8 zealots (wiht +1 I think, could be wrong) and Calm targets a dt walking into the main, but accidently targets off it when it needs 1 more hit to die then the dt kills 14 drones in the main.
At the same time backho took his third gas and outmassed Calm by HT / DT / Archon / zealot army.
On October 16 2009 19:56 Scorch wrote: I don't know why Backho always goes so far in tournaments although he's an average player. Kinda like the opposite of what Sea used to be.
He's better than Free.
you are an idiot to think backho is overall a better player than free
Calling me an idiot without a solid argument makes you an idiot.
alright, here is my solid argument;
you are pretty much comparing pretty much the best late-game pvz specialist in the modern age against someone who hasn't proved their merit sufficiently for him to cement comparision to free.
i am going to admit, if backho grew some brains he'd be a decent protoss. unfortunately it seems over the past two years or so he hasnt grown them, yet.
Calm went for a very risky build - 2-base luker drop is all-in. You either inflict extreme damage FAST or lose. It worked. Backho with balls of steel just counterattacked, and failed. I hope game 3 is nearly as entertaining.
Actually I'm not sure why didnt BackHo stay in the game, he killed the Lair, the spawning pool, the hydra den (or was that at the nat?)... What do you think?
On October 16 2009 20:13 InFiNitY[pG] wrote: backho could've won this but he didnt kill the csourgeeggs which cost him 2 shuttles and he couldn't do enough with his reavers
You're right... if he had killed the eggs he could have won... arrrgh...
On October 16 2009 20:15 538 wrote: Actually I'm not sure why didnt BackHo stay in the game, he killed the Lair, the spawning pool, the hydra den (or was that at the nat?)... What do you think?
he literally had ZERO buildings that could build attacking units.
On October 16 2009 20:15 538 wrote: Actually I'm not sure why didnt BackHo stay in the game, he killed the Lair, the spawning pool, the hydra den (or was that at the nat?)... What do you think?
he literally had ZERO buildings that could build attacking units.
and no core
he lost around 20 probes to those stupid lurks and by the time he had gotten anything to counter mutas calm would've taken like 5 baes
Calm could have finished that off earlier, seeing as how his lings got there before the cannons finished, but he didn't run past into the main. Amazing game though.
Backho is so careless with his units man! The amount he just donates is not even funny. However, I think that carelessness could stem from his reckless aggression, which is what won him the first game and almost won him the second too.
On October 16 2009 20:25 SkytoM wrote: is there a counter to HT snipe? ^^
Not until late-game. And BackHo is in terrible pain because of it - he needs to get a third base NOW or else he's gonna get splattered in under five minutes.
BEAUTIFUL TIMING on calms part, back has to make a choice when he saw those lings, he wasnt gonna reach it in time, panic'd, and lost many z's because of it
On October 16 2009 20:33 Snowden wrote: i use failho as a loving term.
What's with calling Backho "Failho"? He got an impressive and well-deserved victory over Calm in game 1 and nearly took it in game 2.
Heartbreak Ridge = massive ZvP imba. Even Bisu couldn't do it against a mediocre zerg. Hopefully the next map cycle won't be as ridiculously zerg favored.
Anyway, congrats to Calm and thanks again to Kentor.
Templar snipes until the midgame, then mass cracklings in the lategame to spend excess minerals: very scary. Backho didnt really have other choice for army composition after losing so many templars, due to the possible tech switches, and the multiple ling attacks abused this. Well played.
It's over. BackHo deserved better than getting smacked down like that after the valiant fight he put in... but that's the game. If Bisu couldn't make it out of HBR, expecting a miracle from BackHo was too much - Calm did playbook Z moves, starting from the low gas build because he saw the forge at work and knew +1SpeedZeal was incoming, once that danger passed, mutas to snipe HTs in order to finish any hopes of a straight up push succeeding, eliminating 3rd and 4th expos with cracklings the moment the P army was poised to attack... There was really nothing BackHo could do that Calm didn't have a reaction ready for.
edit: failho gained a lot of love in this series. HBR must be removed from the map pool now. The long distance makes +1SpeedZeal a joke.
On October 16 2009 20:33 Snowden wrote: i use failho as a loving term.
What's with calling Backho "Failho"? He got an impressive and well-deserved victory over Calm in game 1 and nearly took it in game 2.
Heartbreak Ridge = massive ZvP imba. Even Bisu couldn't do it against a mediocre zerg. Hopefully the next map cycle won't be as ridiculously zerg favored.
Anyway, congrats to Calm and thanks again to Kentor.
You should watch moar games with him. He totally deserves the name Failho.
On October 16 2009 20:38 raga4ka wrote: Was a nice try by BackHO . But what can you do ? Build a shuttle to escort the HT wait for a DA and update maelstorm ?
On October 16 2009 20:33 Snowden wrote: i use failho as a loving term.
What's with calling Backho "Failho"? He got an impressive and well-deserved victory over Calm in game 1 and nearly took it in game 2.
Heartbreak Ridge = massive ZvP imba. Even Bisu couldn't do it against a mediocre zerg. Hopefully the next map cycle won't be as ridiculously zerg favored.
Anyway, congrats to Calm and thanks again to Kentor.
You should watch moar games with him. He totally deserves the name Failho.
I've seen plenty of his games and I agree. But today he does not. Backho faired no worse than Bisu did against Shine on HBR. Again, Backho was superb in game 1 and nearly won in game 2. Give him credit.
On October 16 2009 20:33 Snowden wrote: i use failho as a loving term.
What's with calling Backho "Failho"? He got an impressive and well-deserved victory over Calm in game 1 and nearly took it in game 2.
Heartbreak Ridge = massive ZvP imba. Even Bisu couldn't do it against a mediocre zerg. Hopefully the next map cycle won't be as ridiculously zerg favored.
Anyway, congrats to Calm and thanks again to Kentor.
Because he is so increadibly unstable. He often makes S-class moves in games and them throw them away due to very big mistakes, that for some reason, often look hilarious. He the only player who's litterally made me laugh watching some of his games.
On October 16 2009 20:36 iG.SwOrD wrote: Maelstrom or just biuld some decent amount of corsair to avoid muta harass eh?
Not sure that is enough
Zerg doesn't care about losing the Mutas as long as he snipes the HT...
Quick switch to Mutas, punish a few probes if not well defended. Snipe HT while losing your mutas Overrun the P with Hydra Lings (Lurks?) since no more storms to be afraid of.
If P goes cors I think zerg can easily go Lurk since P won't have enough gas to have the right amount of obs, HT + goons
The Mutalisk harass put him behind for sure - but he made the same mistakes as Pusan did against yCh (who did counter the harass effectively with DA) - he let Zerglings kill his expansions and hence left him economically fucked (while the Zerg is economically fine).
On October 16 2009 19:56 Scorch wrote: I don't know why Backho always goes so far in tournaments although he's an average player. Kinda like the opposite of what Sea used to be.
He's better than Free.
you are an idiot to think backho is overall a better player than free
Well as far as i know BackHo is a better PvPer then Free , but has worse PvZ . I don't know who has a better PvT thought .
On October 16 2009 19:56 Scorch wrote: I don't know why Backho always goes so far in tournaments although he's an average player. Kinda like the opposite of what Sea used to be.
He's better than Free.
you are an idiot to think backho is overall a better player than free
Well as far as i know BackHo is a better PvPer then Free , but has worse PvZ . I don't know who has a better PvT thought .
GTR with how free has been playing within the past month, and how Backho played tonight - it's not that far of a stretch imo!
Backho just needed to camp some bases and harrass with a speed shuttle or something. Once P gets into the mid game with 3 bases and setting up a 4th he should be fine with just defending/harass.
agreed, even in the last game it was pretty even until those last few decisions, maybe some archons to defend those lings and it could have gone totally different.
Man, LOVED the first game. Finally some twist in PvZ play.
On October 16 2009 20:47 Plexa wrote: The Mutalisk harass put him behind for sure - but he made the same mistakes as Pusan did against yCh (who did counter the harass effectively with DA) - he let Zerglings kill his expansions and hence left him economically fucked (while the Zerg is economically fine).
The game was pretty even until then imo
How was the game even? He let the zerg get 4 bases before he can get his 3rd. The food count was basically even(and it looked like Backho cut probes too since his army looks pretty big compared to food). Plus hydra/lurker/ling pretty much rapes zealot/goon army.
That said, I agree that he should've played defensive, and at least put a few lots/temps at his expansions to protect against lings.
Maybe protoss players should update hallucinations and use it on his HTs and fool the zerg to either think he has sniped most of them or just lure the mutas in to killing them :D or yeah get good at maelstorming :/ .
Anyways i don't know who will stop Jaedong or Calm this OSL/MSL if they don't kill themselves earlier . I think Flash is the main contender , but his TvZ looks fragile at times . Other then him i don't know who can do it a protoss player seems highly unlikely... other capable ZvZers could stop their progress but thats to tough to tell .
In game two, like motbob already pointed out, he was so close to winning. He could have at least went for the spire after demolishing the main. He had more than enough reavers to take it down. Then all he would have to do is defend until he rebuild his army since they were both at 1 base. Or am I just completely wrong?
The thing with Calm being Top 3 is more... Who would you put over him?...?
Jaedong -> Granted. Effort -> Probably, but Calm is the overall better/more succsesfull (proleague and indivudal leagues) player so i would go with Calm. Luxury -> Was in a deep slump after his MSL and isn't exactly known for his ZvP. Yarnc -> Has horrible ZvP. July -> Well... Probably. But only in ZvP, not a chance in ZvZ. Zero -> I really don't know, but he's entertaining for sure .
Naming more Zergs would begin to feel strange because soon you'll end up comparing Calm to guys that showed a few good games and nothing more.
The games today also don't help to say how good Calms ZvP is... Game 1 was strange, Game 2 was strange, Game 3 was standart and Backho got owned hard (as expected before the series).
I would not call Calm better than Jaedong yet, not even close. Jaedong is on the top since i don't know how long and Calm really came to the light last season. Yes, he beat Jaedong once but in my book Calm would need to score some more big wins before you can really say that he's better than JD, as long as JD keeps his toplevel play.
On October 16 2009 21:11 Velr wrote: The thing with Calm being Top 3 is more... Who would you put over him?...?
Jaedong -> Granted. Effort -> Probably, but Calm is the overall better/more succsesfull (proleague and indivudal leagues) player so i would go with Calm. Luxury -> Was in a deep slump after his MSL and isn't exactly known for his ZvP. Yarnc -> Has horrible ZvP. July -> Well... Probably. But only in ZvP, not a chance in ZvZ. Zero -> I really don't know, but he's entertaining for sure .
Naming more Zergs would begin to feel strange because soon you'll end up comparing Calm to guys that showed a few good games and nothing more.
The games today also don't help to say how good Calms ZvP is... Game 1 was strange, Game 2 was strange, Game 3 was standart and Backho got owned hard (as expected before the series).
Game 1 and Game 2 = Brain Zerg getting outsmarted --> Preparation is everything as shown in PL playoffs where we had a lot of upsets.
On October 16 2009 20:49 SuperArc wrote: BackHo almost beat Calm (top3 zerg) in a Bo3.
There is hardly a ZvP imba.
Calm wouldn't be top 3 ZvP, probably Top 5-7.
Calm is top 1 everything IMO. Calm is the best zerg out there right now, and probably the best player.
What? Are you being sarcastic?
Hmm, maybe you're right. We should have Jaedong and Calm play a Bo5 to see who's better. Oh wait, we already did, and Calm won.
That Bo5 was played the day after JD played his Bo5 against Fantasy in the OSL semifinals. That is something to take into consideration. Also, would you argue that Iris is a better player then Bisu is right now?
I wouldn't call letting a DT with 5hp slip thru *outsmarted* (that would have been something like a hidden Robo that Calm had no idea of which again dropped 1-2 DT's in his main while he was defending his natural).
I wouldn't call an all-in counter to Calms *near* all-in *outsmarted* (and he won that in the end so he wasn't outsmarted anyway ).
On October 16 2009 21:30 Camlito wrote: Don't argue with motbob, even though he's probably joking this time, he calls new players bonjwas after winning 3 games. Hard to get through to him.
LOL? How could you read my bonjwa threads/posts and not tell that they're tongue in cheek? How can you think I'm "joking" when Calm has had the best record over the past 3 months, has just won an MSL, and has beaten Jaedong in a Bo5?
On October 16 2009 20:49 SuperArc wrote: BackHo almost beat Calm (top3 zerg) in a Bo3.
There is hardly a ZvP imba.
Calm wouldn't be top 3 ZvP, probably Top 5-7.
Calm is top 1 everything IMO. Calm is the best zerg out there right now, and probably the best player.
What? Are you being sarcastic?
Hmm, maybe you're right. We should have Jaedong and Calm play a Bo5 to see who's better. Oh wait, they already did, and Calm won.
Luxury 2-0'd Calm, Luxury best zerg.
Lux isn't 29-11 last 40 game. Lux also beat Calm in WCG, which probably* means less to the players than the MSL.
*(definitely)
Yeah, and Calm beat Jaedong in the MSL, which probably* means less to the players than the OSL. The difference is that Jaedong had to play the MSL and OSL at the same time, while worrying about FA and PL finals, whereas Calm just got raped with nothing to practice for but WCG.
*(definitely)
Logic = horrendous
I know where you're coming from, but look back a few months ago. Effort was on top of the world, raping everyone left and right, 2-0'd Jaedong out of GOM. Everyone said Effort is the best zerg, hell he even trounced Jaedong off the top spot in the power rank. Then the dissidents and critics pointed out that Jaedong was fucking swamped and was still doing well in the other, more important scenes.
Move a couple months later and Jaedong has a golden mouse. And went on to eat Effort alive for good measure. You're far, far, far too fast to discredit Jaedong and vindicate Calm.
On October 16 2009 20:49 SuperArc wrote: BackHo almost beat Calm (top3 zerg) in a Bo3.
There is hardly a ZvP imba.
Calm wouldn't be top 3 ZvP, probably Top 5-7.
Calm is top 1 everything IMO. Calm is the best zerg out there right now, and probably the best player.
What? Are you being sarcastic?
Hmm, maybe you're right. We should have Jaedong and Calm play a Bo5 to see who's better. Oh wait, they already did, and Calm won.
Luxury 2-0'd Calm, Luxury best zerg.
Lux isn't 29-11 last 40 game. Lux also beat Calm in WCG, which probably* means less to the players than the MSL.
*(definitely)
Yeah, and Calm beat Jaedong in the MSL, which probably* means less to the players than the OSL. The difference is that Jaedong had to play the MSL and OSL at the same time, while worrying about FA and PL finals, whereas Calm just got raped with nothing to practice for but WCG.
*(definitely)
Logic = horrendous
I know where you're coming from, but look back a few months ago. Effort was on top of the world, raping everyone left and right, 2-0'd Jaedong out of GOM. Everyone said Effort is the best zerg, hell he even trounced Jaedong off the top spot in the power rank. Then the dissidents and critics pointed out that Jaedong was fucking swamped and was still doing well in the other, more important scenes.
Move a couple months later and Jaedong has a golden mouse.
Calm is not definitively better than Jaedong.
??? definitively better? I never said that. I was just responding to the guy who said that my opinion was so stupid that I had to be being sarcastic.
I just think he's posted definitively better results lately. Maybe that's cause Jaedong is swamped but it's worth noting that he absolutely destroyed Yarnc after very little practice but got stomped by Calm after (assumedly) the same lack of practice a few weeks later earlier. So it's not as if with enough of a practice differential, any A-class zerg can beat JD.
On October 16 2009 20:49 SuperArc wrote: BackHo almost beat Calm (top3 zerg) in a Bo3.
There is hardly a ZvP imba.
Calm wouldn't be top 3 ZvP, probably Top 5-7.
Calm is top 1 everything IMO. Calm is the best zerg out there right now, and probably the best player.
What? Are you being sarcastic?
Hmm, maybe you're right. We should have Jaedong and Calm play a Bo5 to see who's better. Oh wait, they already did, and Calm won.
Luxury 2-0'd Calm, Luxury best zerg.
Lux isn't 29-11 last 40 game. Lux also beat Calm in WCG, which probably* means less to the players than the MSL.
*(definitely)
Yeah, and Calm beat Jaedong in the MSL, which probably* means less to the players than the OSL. The difference is that Jaedong had to play the MSL and OSL at the same time, while worrying about FA and PL finals, whereas Calm just got raped with nothing to practice for but WCG.
*(definitely)
Logic = horrendous
I know where you're coming from, but look back a few months ago. Effort was on top of the world, raping everyone left and right, 2-0'd Jaedong out of GOM. Everyone said Effort is the best zerg, hell he even trounced Jaedong off the top spot in the power rank. Then the dissidents and critics pointed out that Jaedong was fucking swamped and was still doing well in the other, more important scenes.
Move a couple months later and Jaedong has a golden mouse.
Calm is not definitively better than Jaedong.
??? definitively better? I never said that. I was just responding to the guy who said that my opinion was so stupid that I had to be being sarcastic.
I just think he's posted definitively better results lately. Maybe that's cause Jaedong is swamped but it's worth noting that he absolutely destroyed Yarnc after very little practice but got stomped by Calm after (assumedly) the same lack of practice a few weeks later earlier. So it's not as if with enough of a practice differential, any A-class zerg can beat JD.
Yep, Calm is S-class with amazing and intelligent ZvZ. Jaedong is still better.
I mean, sure, Jaedong didn't stomp his OSL group because he's seeded for winning. Sure, Jaedong didn't stomp his MST groups, because he's seeded, just like Calm, into the ro32. Jaedong's got one less win in PL, but is still hasn't lost a game. There's no way to differentiate if Jaedong is still on top of his game because he hasn't had to play a lot lately. Saying Calm is the #1 zerg is absolutely premature. Atleast when people were calling Effort the #1 zerg, Jaedong was losing games he shouldn't be losing.
On October 16 2009 20:49 SuperArc wrote: BackHo almost beat Calm (top3 zerg) in a Bo3.
There is hardly a ZvP imba.
Calm wouldn't be top 3 ZvP, probably Top 5-7.
NO, Calm is definitely top 3. There is no other player that I would place above him except for Jaedong and maybe Effort if he plays well this year.
ZerO's ZvP is superior. So is Kwanro's. Calm is (far) better at the other matchups, but not this one.
Kwanro? That's borderline ridiculous, given that it's a 50% matchup for pikachu. Kwanro's ZvStork has been pretty good, but that's really not that impressive.
I'd say the top two ZvP players right now potentially are probably by.hero and ZerO, but they're both (especially by.hero) a little bit specialists. They're also both kind of inconsistent - to identify the real top three, imo it's really a question of how you rank Jaedong, EffOrt, and Calm.
For myself? I like Calm best, I'd say he's the #2 Zerg, and I personally think ZvP is his best matchup - but I feel like he's not as deadly as Jaedong (witness the way he got destroyed by Jangbi, something JD's game sense would have seen coming three miles away). I'm kind of an EffOrt anti-fan, so even though his ZvP record is kind of amazing I still feel like he doesn't have a standout performance that really defines him as a ZvP master. So I say Jaedong, Calm, Effort. Then ZerO, July and by.hero can round out a top six and then you're pretty much just throwing names at the list and hoping they stick.
Efforts #1 Zerg blahblah was more the outcry of a million CJ fans which wanted their Neo-Savior :p.
One BO5 does not make someone better than someone that delivered over a way longer time with way better results/leaguewins. Especially not in a matchup like ZvZ where the slightest mistake can cost you everything.
On October 16 2009 20:47 Plexa wrote: The Mutalisk harass put him behind for sure - but he made the same mistakes as Pusan did against yCh (who did counter the harass effectively with DA) - he let Zerglings kill his expansions and hence left him economically fucked (while the Zerg is economically fine).
The game was pretty even until then imo
How was the game even? He let the zerg get 4 bases before he can get his 3rd. The food count was basically even(and it looked like Backho cut probes too since his army looks pretty big compared to food). Plus hydra/lurker/ling pretty much rapes zealot/goon army.
That said, I agree that he should've played defensive, and at least put a few lots/temps at his expansions to protect against lings.
Calm was only on 3 gas - so even though calm had 4 bases it wasn't too bad. Backho was ahead by 20 psi pretty much the whole game and indeed, he won the big battle at the end of the game - but since his econ got raped there was no way he could reinforce or anything. Backho just needed to secure those two top bases and the top left and stop calm from taking the center. Equal gas protoss can fight equal gas Zerg most of the time (especially with reavers) and I think there was enough play left in the game for it to go either way.
Calm never exploited his earlier advantage when he did kill all of Backhos stormers, and as a result Backho was able to escape the "danger zone" of being massed by hydra and catch up. He was behind for sure, but it was sufficiently close that it could have gone either way still.
If Calm can beat Bisu/Stork and Flash/Fantasy in a bo3 he'd prove himself for me. ZvZ and beating non S-class players are not enough when we have Jaedong.
On October 17 2009 00:02 valaki wrote: If Calm can beat Bisu/Stork and Flash/Fantasy in a bo3 he'd prove himself for me. ZvZ and beating non S-class players are not enough when we have Jaedong.
Wasn't much of a rape, considering all three games were really good and really close.
If Backho's playing this good this season, to put up a tough 1-2 against the second best zerg and ace player for the arguably strongest team, then Oz may be in better shape than most of us thought, too. It's good to see Backho churning out competitive and enjoyable games.
On October 17 2009 00:33 TwoToneTerran wrote: Wasn't much of a rape, considering all three games were really good and really close.
If Backho's playing this good this season, to put up a tough 1-2 against the second best zerg and ace player for the arguably strongest team, then Oz may be in better shape than most of us thought, too. It's good to see Backho churning out competitive and enjoyable games.
vouch this. backho really seems to have improved considerably. and remember: if jaedong wins his game, a single further win by backho would be enough to bring it to the ace.
On October 17 2009 00:33 TwoToneTerran wrote: Wasn't much of a rape, considering all three games were really good and really close.
If Backho's playing this good this season, to put up a tough 1-2 against the second best zerg and ace player for the arguably strongest team, then Oz may be in better shape than most of us thought, too. It's good to see Backho churning out competitive and enjoyable games.
vouch this. backho really seems to have improved considerably. and remember: if jaedong wins his game, a single further win by backho would be enough to bring it to the ace.
Where Killer will be sent out, and Oz loses the match!
On October 17 2009 00:33 TwoToneTerran wrote: Wasn't much of a rape, considering all three games were really good and really close.
If Backho's playing this good this season, to put up a tough 1-2 against the second best zerg and ace player for the arguably strongest team, then Oz may be in better shape than most of us thought, too. It's good to see Backho churning out competitive and enjoyable games.
vouch this. backho really seems to have improved considerably. and remember: if jaedong wins his game, a single further win by backho would be enough to bring it to the ace.
Where Killer will be sent out, and Oz loses the match!
That decision is quite possibly the most confusing decision ever made, all categories.
But yeah, Oz are quite strong in a Bo5. JD is almost guaranteed to win both his game and an eventual ace game (JD fanboy, hell yeah), so it's enough if one of Hiya/Lomo/Backho (who are all decent players) takes a game. They're also strong in KOTH format. But in a Bo7 they're fucked.
On October 17 2009 00:33 TwoToneTerran wrote: Wasn't much of a rape, considering all three games were really good and really close.
If Backho's playing this good this season, to put up a tough 1-2 against the second best zerg and ace player for the arguably strongest team, then Oz may be in better shape than most of us thought, too. It's good to see Backho churning out competitive and enjoyable games.
vouch this. backho really seems to have improved considerably. and remember: if jaedong wins his game, a single further win by backho would be enough to bring it to the ace.
Where Killer will be sent out, and Oz loses the match!
That decision is quite possibly the most confusing decision ever made, all categories.
But yeah, Oz are quite strong in a Bo5. JD is almost guaranteed to win both his game and an eventual ace game (JD fanboy, hell yeah), so it's enough if one of Hiya/Lomo/Backho (who are all decent players) takes a game. They're also strong in KOTH format. But in a Bo7 they're fucked.
PL playoffs showed us Oz can take it 3-3 in a Bo7 without JD winning.
godddd i just watched game 2... WHY DIDNT YOU KILL THOSE EGGS BACKHOOOOOOOOOOO WRY!!
he could have killed an overlord and saved 2 shuttles. then the reavers definitely would have had enough time to kill either the spire or those 2 hatches. he might have even supply blocked calm if he killed that overlord egg.
Let's say he would have killed the scourge--I don't see how that would have bought him any more time. It's not like shuttles are so good against mutalisks either.
On October 17 2009 03:59 qrs wrote: Let's say he would have killed the scourge--I don't see how that would have bought him any more time. It's not like shuttles are so good against mutalisks either.
he had to have the 4 reavers CRAWL from the main to the natural.. something that would have been expedited 20-fold with the use of 2 speed shuttles. mutas were still hatching during the crawling process which btw takes a long time. I just finished watching the VOD, and I definitely believe he would of had time to kill both hatcheries or the spire, or even both if he had those shuttles.
and if he had killed that spire.. well calm would be left with 2 hatcheries and an extractor, some hydras and 3 mutas. and if he killed the 2 hatcheries well, thats basically gg. And he would have been able to take out both hatches had he had those shuttles.
I think you're wrong. I just checked out that part of the VOD and mutas were out before backho even killed the lair. That's without even taking into account the extra shot he would have needed to kill the eggs, or the hydras that were in Calm's main. Shuttles die quicker than reavers and one was already damaged, so I'm not even sure he would have had time to shuttle the reavers all the way to the nat.
EPT
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Calm vs 
Reality![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/221.jpg)
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BackHo vs Winner
