Hi, since liquipedia was released, i was really intrigued by the Sparks Terran. You could find all the info you need there.
This earlier BO of the sparks terran aim to kill/delay the zerg with 14 rines, 6 medics +1 armor, below the 8 min mark or when muta/lurk tech comes out.
BO: 10 depot @150 minerals, rax 12 2nd rax, scout 13 refinery (NOTE: once ref finishes, just keep 1 scv mining gas) 18 depot and ebay (NOTE: you could use 2nd rax scv to build depot) 21 3rd rax, depot, (NOTE: by this thime you should have 3-5 rines, ebay would finish and start armor immediately since you have 104 gas) 24 acad @50% acad, put 2 scvs into gas @100% acad, pump 6 medics from 3 rax, start comsat, start stim @100% comsat, scan if he's going spire or den Once medics are out, push with 6 medics and 14 rines (NOTE: I highly advise that you build 3 bats after medics in case of ling backstab) Rally raxes to zerg's nat and keep pumping rines
It is very effective against 3 hatch, so I always use this when i'm pretty sure that the zerg would go 3 hatch. (ex. Andromeda, Neo Medusa etc)
"Why +1 armor and not +1 attack?" I choose +1 armor for two important reasons: 1. It takes zerglings 8 times to kill a marine w/ no armor, with +1 it would take them 10 times. 2. It takes lurkers and sunkens to kill rines 2 times w/ no armor, with +1 it would take them 3 times.
"He went...
Muta.." That would be great, since by the muta's pop out, +1 armor would be finished and you're already outside his nat and about to push.
Lurker..." Now this is a bit tricky, since your first scan you used to scout. So if you see den when you scan, immediately push outside his nat since it would force him to pull some drones and make sunks, it would delay his lurker for a bit and you would have one more scan ready, by the time +1 armor finishes, push.
9 pool.." Stick with the BO and timings but pull 2 or 3 scvs to block the ramp. This would significantly delay his lair tech.
"Well, he was able to block my timing push" You should've expo'd when you were pushing in case it fails, put turrets if he went muta and bunker your nat + turrets since you have limited scans, transition to standard bio"
NOTE: I'm only a D level Terran, i haven't tried this on higher ranks and if there's still some mistakes or cons on this build, please do comment. This is only experimental. The average time that +1 armor would finish is 6:40 Average time that mutas pop out in: a) 2 hatch = around 6:40 b) 3 hatch = around 7:10
On June 27 2009 13:50 29 fps wrote: isnt 18 depot a bit late for constant scv production?
Oh yeah i forgot that it is important that you get supply blocked by 18 supply, it gives you the minerals to start 3rd rax, its just like you cutting scvs :o
I think +1 weapons would be better in this situation. You can shred through lings/sunks faster and the +1 armor still gives you only 2 hits from a sunk after stimming.
On June 27 2009 14:01 DeathByMonkeys wrote: I think +1 weapons would be better in this situation. You can shred through lings/sunks faster and the +1 armor still gives you only 2 hits from a sunk after stimming.
You could avoid the "2hits from sunk after stimming" by stimming before engaging, 6 medics would only take around a few seconds to heal your rines, immediately push afterwards with medics at front
On June 27 2009 14:01 DeathByMonkeys wrote: I think +1 weapons would be better in this situation. You can shred through lings/sunks faster and the +1 armor still gives you only 2 hits from a sunk after stimming.
You could avoid the "2hits from sunk after stimming" by stimming before engaging, 6 medics would only take around a few seconds to heal your rines, immediately push afterwards with medics at front
another thing u can do is move your medics into sunken range before moving your marines, so that they absorb the first round of spines edit: oh the wiki page mentions that, nvm then
On June 27 2009 18:06 arkaros wrote: Mix some firebats is myt tip. Realy deals with the lings perfectly
I mix firebats but just to stop a ling backstab, i really dont add them to the push since it would probably distract medics, rines are more effective IMO
On June 27 2009 18:14 Lq_ fAn wrote: 2 hatch muta timing 6.00 min 3 hatch muta timing 6.55 min it depends on gas timing
this happens probably if they create no or only 2 lings, but since you would push, you can throw them off timing by let them create more lings
On June 27 2009 19:26 Ver wrote: This belongs in Liquipedia, not the strat forum. Why repost something here?
To discuss it obviously. To find out its viability, if there are any flaws in the BO and how to transition into mid and late game, if the push failed (and how that worked out on maybe different maps).
On June 27 2009 19:26 Ver wrote: This belongs in Liquipedia, not the strat forum. Why repost something here?
To discuss it obviously. To find out its viability, if there are any flaws in the BO and how to transition into mid and late game, if the push failed (and how that worked out on maybe different maps).
Hmm I was also under the impression that in this build a couple firebats were quite important as to absorb hits from sunkens making them that much easier to break..
On June 27 2009 19:26 Ver wrote: This belongs in Liquipedia, not the strat forum. Why repost something here?
To discuss it obviously. To find out its viability, if there are any flaws in the BO and how to transition into mid and late game, if the push failed (and how that worked out on maybe different maps).
This belongs in Liquipedia, not the strat forum. Why repost something here?
coz i don't know how to post there, and i Really don't think that this is Really fits it standard o.o its just a earlier sparks >.>
Doesn't actual Sparks Terran use lots of Firebats and +aTtacK instead of +armor? Isn't that why it's called Sparks Terran in the first placed?
this is a variation, you would be Push EARLY, w/c means that you'd have less rines so there for +1 armor (3 hits from sunken and lurker if he goes that tech) is way better than +1 aTtacK in early game. You could incorporate bats if you want to o.o i just prefer rines, since they can hit mutas (if he goes that tech)
Doesn't actual Sparks Terran use lots of Firebats and +aTtacK instead of +armor? Isn't that why it's called Sparks Terran in the first placed?
this is a variation, you would be Push EARLY, w/c means that you'd have less rines so there for +1 armor (3 hits from sunken and lurker if he goes that tech) is way better than +1 aTtacK in early game. You could incorporate bats if you want to o.o i just prefer rines, since they can hit mutas (if he goes that tech)
In the middle of the thread, joohyunee tested it and came to the conclusion that +1 weps was better for 5 or less sunks, and +1 armor was better for 6 or more sunks. However, he didn't add any firebats.
Whenever I sunk break I just make 6 firebats. I send 3 to take damage from the sunks and i keep 3 in the back for lings. The 3 bats i sent take up 9 sunk hits - thats 4 marines saved. With +1 weps, i then proceed to mow down the sunks because the hardest part about using +1 weps in sunk breaking is getting them there alive. The first and second volley of sunk attacks are the ones that kill the most marines. +1 armor obviously lets more marines survive those, but putting 6 firebats in the mix also gets the job done. Not to mention firebats are also extremely effective vs buildings, contrary to popular belief.
On June 27 2009 19:53 maybenexttime wrote: It's called sparks because sunkens blowin up look like fireworks. ;p
I don't think they do. Exploding Firebats look like fireworks.. sunken colonies don't.
Edit: It might well be that the name came from the sunkens but when I first heard about it it was said that the name came from heavy firebat usage and I think it makes more sense. The Definitions guide from the recommended threads also states it this way iirc.
I have read and tried this... I practiced it first then tried it on another player... I lost... Here is the replay... my sparks terran lose TvZ Where did I go wrong?
...and he got muta in my base so I have to defend...What do I do?
I suppose you guys stim and wait for the medics to heal some marines before moving in on the sunks. Otherwise there is no difference between armor or no armor. Same goes for lurks, guards, ultras. If you always fight stimmed and unhealed before you engage it makes no difference what level upgrade you have for marines.
Weapon upgrade works best vs the mutalisks and lurkers, while armor upgrade works best vs zerglings. As previously said, marines with +1 attack still need 6 shots to kill a zergling, unless hits are simultaneous, for the same reason vultures need 3 shots to kill a drone. As for sunkens, I would say attack is better but armor can be made effective with positioning, by having the bat/medic group in front when attacking. Also worth mentioning that a zergling deals as much damage as a sunken so this upgrade can have a lot of influence on the game overall not specifically on the sunken break itself
firebats are great at absorbing damage, and they hit buildings with both of all 3 of their splash hitboxes depending on positioning. They probably hit sunkens with all 3 of them...so they do the same damage as marines do to sunkens (albeit with a bit more cooldown), can tank a few extra hits from lings even without medic support, and they force the zerg player to not be careless with his lings, sending lings into a few firebats will just get them all toasted.
so they actually are still alright at taking down sunkens, and mixing them into a sunken break is a good idea for a bit of extra effectiveness vs lings and to absorb damage
On June 27 2009 18:06 arkaros wrote: Mix some firebats is myt tip. Realy deals with the lings perfectly
I mix firebats but just to stop a ling backstab, i really dont add them to the push since it would probably distract medics, rines are more effective IMO
On November 05 2009 18:03 atoz01 wrote: I have read and tried this... I practiced it first then tried it on another player... I lost... Here is the replay... my sparks terran lose TvZ Where did I go wrong?
...and he got muta in my base so I have to defend...What do I do?
You didnt execute the BO correctly. Not by a long shot.
I've tried this a few times, but it seems Sync knew something we're missing... Insane how he can rip through 7-10 sunks with just 1.5 ctrl group of rines + 5 medics + 2 fb
Im personaly in favour for Stinger's old 3-rax +1 armor rather than this one, which has worse economy and slow range. And why would u need 6 medics when you dont even would heal with them all at once in battle? 4 medics should be enough for a full group of marines and they have enough mana to give heal to the marines through the battle. Ur whole build seems ineffecint with depot stops, inregulary marine production. sry to break it for you :/ But this has been tested for years already.
On November 05 2009 18:03 atoz01 wrote: I have read and tried this... I practiced it first then tried it on another player... I lost... Here is the replay... my sparks terran lose TvZ Where did I go wrong?
...and he got muta in my base so I have to defend...What do I do?
You didnt execute the BO correctly. Not by a long shot.
top = the BO bottom = stuff you did
Oooooh, is that some kind of program? I'd love to compare my Flash build to... Flash.
On November 05 2009 18:03 atoz01 wrote: I have read and tried this... I practiced it first then tried it on another player... I lost... Here is the replay... my sparks terran lose TvZ Where did I go wrong?
...and he got muta in my base so I have to defend...What do I do?
You didnt execute the BO correctly. Not by a long shot.
top = the BO bottom = stuff you did
Oooooh, is that some kind of program? I'd love to compare my Flash build to... Flash.
On topic: I'll try this out probably later this weekend, but some thoughts:
6 medics? That seems like alot. I'd rather have 16 or 17 marines and 3-4 medics.
I think +1 armor will be great because the three firebats on the ramp at home have a much greater chance to kill all of the zerglings, if there's something like 12 speedling backstab.
It's safe to assume that I would expand while pushing, but if the push fails, wouldn't that be a big problem with mutas or lurkers coming my way, while having few marines? This seems like a do or die build order.
On November 05 2009 18:03 atoz01 wrote: I have read and tried this... I practiced it first then tried it on another player... I lost... Here is the replay... my sparks terran lose TvZ Where did I go wrong?
...and he got muta in my base so I have to defend...What do I do?
You didnt execute the BO correctly. Not by a long shot.
top = the BO bottom = stuff you did
Oooooh, is that some kind of program? I'd love to compare my Flash build to... Flash.
On topic: I'll try this out probably later this weekend, but some thoughts:
6 medics? That seems like alot. I'd rather have 16 or 17 marines and 3-4 medics.
I think +1 armor will be great because the three firebats on the ramp at home have a much greater chance to kill all of the zerglings, if there's something like 12 speedling backstab.
It's safe to assume that I would expand while pushing, but if the push fails, wouldn't that be a big problem with mutas or lurkers coming my way, while having few marines? This seems like a do or die build order.
Thanks for the picture...My build order really is far off the point. Did you edit the pictures or you just used a function in the bwchart?
Now I'm beginning to see the cons of this build order: 1) mutas/lurks are out if your sunk break fails. 2) having a little force at your base after a failed attack makes it very hard to defend.
Could you please point me where is that "Stinger 3 rax +1 armor" build order?
On June 27 2009 19:48 ven wrote: Doesn't actual Sparks Terran use lots of Firebats and +attack instead of +armor? Isn't that why it's called Sparks Terran in the first placed?
I'm pretty sure +attack is for mutas, and +armor is for lurkers and sunks.. "Sparks" is for the shit that gets blown up, I think.
On March 08 2010 10:54 TriniMasta[wD] wrote: RoFl you need firebats to deal with lings. 3 sunkens and proper at least 8 ling support will own your build. As well has 2 hatch mutalisk
I'm sure that won't be enough to defend the push, when Sync can kill 9+ sunkens with it.
The thing is, a competant zerg will know somethin is up if he sees no expansion up that late, he might even sacrifice an ovie to check your rax count at some point, and when that happens he will be able to react to it a lot better and then you will be behind :/ thats why ayumi build is a lot better then sparks
Can I ask how this compares to the A-Yu-Mi build that Stylish outlined? It seems that A-Yu-Mi gets more marines out at about the same time (omitting the upgrade that comes with sparks), and even though you have to cut SCVs for about ~10 supply, you get your expansions up faster?
Also, it hits at 7 minutes, which I assume this hits around that time as it is pretty much the only early game timing.
well I have not studied the sparks build, only the ayumi so ill give my thoughts on that
ayumi is masked as a 1 rax FE build so the zerg doesnt get suspicious since FE vs zerg is so common nowadays
Ayumi is a timing attack, it is meant to attack the zerg right before his lair tech units pop out which can end the game right there, however this timing attack only works vs the timings for 3 hatch builds, not 2 hatch. this can end the game right there if you can hide your marine count from him (ie dont bring all ur marines out at once, leave some behind your army)
I dont know the sparks build enough to comment on it, someone else will have to do it for me
On June 27 2009 19:48 ven wrote: Doesn't actual Sparks Terran use lots of Firebats and +attack instead of +armor? Isn't that why it's called Sparks Terran in the first placed?
I'm pretty sure +attack is for mutas, and +armor is for lurkers and sunks.. "Sparks" is for the shit that gets blown up, I think.
No, you are still supposed to get +attack for sunkens I believe
wasn't there a article some time ago on that Sense of star blog (awesome stuff, come back T_T ) that explained that in sparks terran you use firebats because they are tough bastards that can soak up more sunken fire,
This doesn`t have to aim on killing the zerg right off.
Your atack should never fail, the correct discernment is needed. You don`t need to atack. Forcing 6-8 sunkens is as good. Position and contain is the key.
If he prepared defence then you don`t atack - you can continue with factory and tank + bunkers and a heavy contain. This gives you tremendous positional advantage, its almost impossible for him to break it. Thus he will try to either doom drop or mass muta - but you are aware of it and prepare ahead.
On June 27 2009 19:48 ven wrote: Doesn't actual Sparks Terran use lots of Firebats and +attack instead of +armor? Isn't that why it's called Sparks Terran in the first placed?
I'm pretty sure +attack is for mutas, and +armor is for lurkers and sunks.. "Sparks" is for the shit that gets blown up, I think.
Sync used to do it w/o any upgrades, it's very good to get +1 armor agaisnt sunkens and later it will be very useful against lurkers aswell. Against mutas it almost makes no difference, you have to get +1 attack against mutas
P.s.: [/QUOTE] You didnt execute the BO correctly. Not by a long shot.
top = the BO bottom = stuff you did[/QUOTE] Just took a look at your picture, the top BO is NOT a sparks terran build, 1rax->3rax with bunkers and turrets >.<?
On June 27 2009 19:48 ven wrote: Doesn't actual Sparks Terran use lots of Firebats and +attack instead of +armor? Isn't that why it's called Sparks Terran in the first placed?
I'm pretty sure +attack is for mutas, and +armor is for lurkers and sunks.. "Sparks" is for the shit that gets blown up, I think.
No, you are still supposed to get +attack for sunkens I believe
No, +1 armor is more effective against sunkens as well. It allows the small number of marines to survive much longer.
On March 08 2010 22:23 UFO wrote: This doesn`t have to aim on killing the zerg right off.
Your atack should never fail, the correct discernment is needed. You don`t need to atack. Forcing 6-8 sunkens is as good. Position and contain is the key.
If he prepared defence then you don`t atack - you can continue with factory and tank + bunkers and a heavy contain. This gives you tremendous positional advantage, its almost impossible for him to break it. Thus he will try to either doom drop or mass muta - but you are aware of it and prepare ahead.
This build pwnz man <3
No, if you fail to break the sunkens then you are really screwed. The Zerg's tech will be so far ahead of yours, and if he gets mutas out then he can micro and hurt you for a long time as you won't have marine range, and it'll be forever before you get vessels out, and you won't have your nat and you won't be able to take your nat because of the mutalisks while he'll be able to take his third.
EPT
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