• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 01:49
CET 07:49
KST 15:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT29Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice6Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza1Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0258
StarCraft 2
General
How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Vitality disbanding their sc2-team Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026 Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare
Brood War
General
Gypsy to Korea BSL 22 Map Contest — Submissions OPEN to March 10 Flash's ASL S21 & Future Plans Announcement BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] Open Qualifier #1 - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile PC Games Sales Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
ONE GREAT AMERICAN MARINE…
XenOsky
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2206 users

[G] The Sair Zealot - Page 3

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-01 02:06:52
April 01 2009 02:05 GMT
#41
Skipping the +1 makes it faster because the citadel and therefore leg speed is faster (the 2nd gas only affects templar archives).

And im pretty sure all games where zerg opens mutas are when the toss makes no more than 1 or 2 corsairs or any at all, because you dont make mutas when the stargate keeps blinking because for one, a muta opening is rather easily scouted and if you mass drones they wont be in time and if you cut drones, making sunkens + lings is painfully expensive if the toss has speedzeals.

Usually you see pros switching to mutas far into midgame after they have really thinned corsair numbers with scourges and making more corsairs is not affordable because its critical to secure with hts that 4th (or even 3rd) for the protoss and zerg has already a pretty sizeable hydra army.

For a vod on how mutas can go really wrong even if properly timed vs a sair build watch jaedong vs bisu on neo harmony.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
Neon_Monkey
Profile Joined February 2008
United States270 Posts
April 01 2009 02:54 GMT
#42
In Jaedong vs bisu, Jaedong made his mutas immediatly after his spire was done and his second gas unfinished at that point. Then he lost all his mutas trying to break cannons with like 5 mutalisks and no scourge for some reason and then instead of transitioning into hydras he made like 10 more mutas that did nothing and then he didn't even have hydra speed by the time 2 archons were out and at his nat. And there have been plenty of games where Z purposely makes mutas vs corsair builds (although they don't always win, they aren't behind because of it): Yarnc vs Stork on medusa, as already described, savior vs best on collo, haran vs best on chupung with a few other games I don't remember, like half the games on blue storm, July vs Jangbi on harmony, Luxury vs Jangbi on Carthage, July vs some toss on andro, and I think bisu vs zero? (I just remember bisu losing like 5 sairs to scourge at the end of the game).

According to the guide the speedlots hit at 7:10. Just taking the timing from the recent TL rep of infernal vs I_wish_you at 6:45 he has 3 fully saturated bases, a sunken, a hydra den, 5 hatches, and still has enough money for 8 mutalisks along with his scourge that are already out. So if you cut the hydra den out and a few drones you can still have lings at your nat to stop a runby if he splits them in half. And in one of the reps of this build the attack actually hits at 7:30. In the one on colo it hits at 7:20 and he leaves his base right before 7 mins. However in that rep he made 1 cannon at his choke, 1 at his main, and none at his nat. Thats really cutting it tight to get the zeals out even that early which is a little later than the guide describes.
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-01 03:18:24
April 01 2009 03:13 GMT
#43
I cant remember every single game you posted but the ones i do remember the zerg winning, the protoss never had more than 2 corsairs at the time the mutas arrived at their base.

And as for the infernal rep, yes he had the money for mutas but other upgrades had bigger priorities and the mutas ended up coming much later than 7:10 and being useful a bit later than 8:00
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
April 01 2009 03:19 GMT
#44
This build isn't really the "holy grail of PvZ" like the zeal+2 archon push that SJM published earlier. It's a strong build, but I feel it's more to give secure you a third and help your transition into later game than it is to outright kill a zerg. It definitely has some weaknesses, but at the same time, some strengths too. It's just another build to add to your list of builds.
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
SuperJongMan
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Jamaica11586 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-02 17:06:51
April 02 2009 17:05 GMT
#45
I actually like this build a lot.
I wanna learn a really good reaver sair zealot build...
I should go look for it too.

If you don't believe me, just try to keep pushing Muta into this build.
Have fun. It's definitely not easy.
POWER OVERWHELMING ! ! ! KRUU~ KRUU~
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 11m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mcanning 146
ProTech117
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 24294
Bisu 11608
ToSsGirL 322
Dewaltoss 121
yabsab 39
Terrorterran 4
Dota 2
XaKoH 283
NeuroSwarm133
League of Legends
JimRising 700
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1039
Other Games
summit1g7555
C9.Mang0365
Fuzer 81
ToD38
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 3323
UltimateBattle 231
lovetv 25
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH1734
• practicex 32
• Sammyuel 24
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 26
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1494
• Stunt448
Other Games
• Scarra715
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
3h 11m
RSL Revival
3h 11m
Reynor vs Zoun
herO vs sOs
WardiTV Winter Champion…
5h 11m
Classic vs Rogue
Solar vs Gerald
Bunny vs Nicoract
ByuN vs Zoun
herO vs Clem
MaxPax vs Cure
AI Arena Tournament
13h 11m
Patches Events
16h 11m
Replay Cast
17h 11m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 3h
RSL Revival
1d 3h
Classic vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Cham
WardiTV Winter Champion…
1d 5h
OSC
1d 5h
[ Show More ]
BSL
1d 13h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Replay Cast
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-05
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
NationLESS Cup
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.