EPT
also, i was hoping someone could explain to me how stylish seemed to build his scanners late enough that he would only have 2 scans in his EE timing build fpvod. I mean, he scanned the opponents tech, but shouldn't 2 scans be insufficient to scan 3 hatches of creep area? it looked like lower right of the third hatch could have hid the tech long enough! [G] Stylish's FPVods [06-10 Update] - Page 25
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knightpraetor
United States180 Posts
also, i was hoping someone could explain to me how stylish seemed to build his scanners late enough that he would only have 2 scans in his EE timing build fpvod. I mean, he scanned the opponents tech, but shouldn't 2 scans be insufficient to scan 3 hatches of creep area? it looked like lower right of the third hatch could have hid the tech long enough | ||
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AtlaS
United States1001 Posts
One thing, my second day of ICCUP (first day of the season), four different protoss cheesed me four times in a row. (all the maps were on destination) Two of them were proxy gates. One right outside my base and one was inside my base but the pylon was right along the cliff on the outside. I tried to wall up but the zealot was already attacking my 2nd non-finished supply when my first marine was just starting. I think I should have just made a bunker right at my choke and block the zealot with any SCVs. I just want to get your opinnion on that. When he had the gateway in the beginning, the probe came before my first supply even finished so walling quicker seems impossible. I used a bunch of SCVs to destroy the gateway but I ended up so far behind that he gooned me before I could even get my machine shop out. And the the next one was basically (i don't want to take up anymore of your time) a manner pylon that turned into a 2nd manner w/ gateway behind my minerals. The last one was he block in his probe between 2 pylons, the bottom of the map and a mineral patch. and then made a cannon right there. What can I do about these cannons? I know that these cheeses are annoying as all hell but I figured that there has to be a set way to defend against these set ups since you don't see it that often in progames. Maybe you could do a short VOD against protoss rushes sort of like how you did against the 4/5 pool? + Show Spoiler + ---M ---M ---M ---M P C P and the M-mineral patch P-pylon C-cannon The --- are just because the spaces don't show up. I'll post a picture if you don't exactly Thank you for all your hard work and contributions to helping lower ranked terran players improve  | ||
SilverskY
Korea (South)3086 Posts
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YPang
United States4024 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
If you're using the 9min Push opening buildorder you can add comsats when the academy finnishes and they will be up in time to spot Spire or Hydra den from a 2 hatch build. Mutalisks are finnished at 6 minutes aproximately with a 2 hatch build. Lukers will finnish slightly after since they have to morph aswell. Watch the 2hatch counter buildorder-VOD in the OP and I talk more about how to react vs 2hatch builds. Always use the scans at the second they finnish. If its too early then it means you made the scans too early. Learn how to delay the building of scans to be able to make some more scvs rather than delay scanning since delaying the actuall "scanspell" will not give you aditional scv's faster. There is no way you're going to be able to scan 3 hatches with 2 scans if he places them far apart. You just have to look at other things to be sure what tech he goes. For example look at his larvas, if you see that he saves up 9 larvas and not morphing them to eggs it usually means that he is going mutalisks. Otherwise you can assume that he is doing some other tech. Also be sure to not always scan straight on the hatcherys, but rather between them so you might actually scan over a larger area of creep than you would if you scan right on top of a hatchery. I will try to explain more about this in my next TvZ standardgame VOD. AtlaS: Sure I can do a VOD of how to build simcity and defend vs early protoss harass. I have some projects before that though. I understand what you mean with the cannon. You can stack scv's on the closes mineralpatch, then select 1 scv and spamclick to move it to the location of the probe and therefor block the position he needs to make a cannon. I will show how to do this in that same VOD. Prox gate + mannerpylon etc is a very strong build on destination and its used alot. But with proper information and micro you can actually even things out most of the games but seldom get very far ahead. But i will try to cover all these things in a how to stop a proxtoss or whatever its going to be called in the near future! Be patient^^ SilverskY: Usually I dont open 1fact siege but rather the economical FD opening which is 9suply 11rax 11gas 16factory 16suply and make 4marines out of the barrack and one tank from factory with mines and one or two vultures. Its explained in my TvP 5fact VOD. This way you will be able to punnish a protoss that takes early expansions+ late units because of early forge since you will be able to scout with the intial vulture after you've laid mines outside your base. If i see a really early forge and 3rd from the iopponent i switch from the 5fact to the faster 4factpush. I will do a bo-vod of this when i have time. Basically you do the same as in the 5factpush but you skip armory and delay the refinary in you expansion to be able to get 3 more factories up as early as possible and move out for a timingpush around the 8min-8:30 mark. To sum this up. Basically just delay refinary and skip armory and make 3 more factories earlier than with the 5factpush and push out really quick. As I said i will cover this in a VOD if i get the time to do it. I hope this answers some of the questions, if you still dont understand something please ask again! Ypang: No no, i was just sick for 2 weeks and then I had to work alot and then I had the whole A- incident so i massgamed instead of making VODs for some days but now Im back in business. Im currently doing the commentary for Gamevod of TvZ 8Rax Mech and TvZ 2port both played on B+ level Iccup from last season! Will hopefully be up in a few hours. I have also collected 10+ games of the A-yu-mi build and some other builds and will make reppacks as soon as i know how to make a reppack;) I dont know how to pack files and things like that, I'm not very good at computers... A new feature will be tons of replays to back every build up as I've stated in the OP. | ||
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SilverskY
Korea (South)3086 Posts
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
On March 05 2009 07:57 SilverskY wrote: Thanks for your answer Stylish, it helps a lot. But for another (slightly more specific) question: When a protoss has an expansion but it's got a lot of cannons to defend it, is it optimal that you bring a tank or 2 along with vults to probe kill/harrass? Or is there a specific maneuver you can do just with using vultures to get probe kills. I find it difficult because unless I manually aim with vults, they aim for cannons and end up dying in cross fire. well, in the case of lots of cannons tank is just too slow to kill them, unless you bring a lot of tanks which you can't really do usually, OR you have the protoss contained/out of position somehow so they can't kill the tank with a couple zealots. if you have 12 vultures to harrass and against like 4 cannons, you can kill all the probes while sacrificing 6-8 vultures. Use shift click to attack probes one after another. If you have extreme vulture numbers, you can take down the cannons first. With few vultures, don't sacrifice them. It's not really worth it. You 'll only get like 1-2 kills before your vults die | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
If the protoss aims for a fast third and a bunch of cannons you are better of with doing a timing push and punish him for his low unitscount rather than trying to hurt his economy with vultureraids. Aim to get 6-7 tanks and then produce vults only and move out pretty soon towards whatever is closest to you. However if you still want to vultureraid him, there is no easy way to kill probes. Usually if i have a group of lets say 8 vultures that im harassing with i take 4 of those vultures and click attack on a probe then shift attack on another then keep holing shift and press attack on a third, forth and fifth. This way they will fire on new probetargets automatically. The reason i take 4 of those vults is that its not good to have all 8 vultures attacking one probe. Its better to split up (dont split up hotkeys just do it manually) the group in half and shiftspam attack on different probes with both groups and then directly take advantage of the autoattack by going home and make a macroround. After the macroround go back to the vults and save as many as you can before they're all dead. I hope this answers your question. | ||
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SilverskY
Korea (South)3086 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Enjoy!! Also please feel free to give me feedback on the General TvZ Tips VOD. It might not have been the most entertaining thing to watch but I didn't know how else to explain everything in detail. Most of the stuff is pretty basic, but i've had questions on how i hotkey and how i 1a2a3a and buildingplacements etc so i thought making a VOD where i cover these things would be good. | ||
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LOcDowN
United States1015 Posts
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YPang
United States4024 Posts
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NeVeR
1352 Posts
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ZzZzAnG
United States109 Posts
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d1v
Sweden868 Posts
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SilverskY
Korea (South)3086 Posts
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bias-
United States410 Posts
 But really, this is the best strategy, build, helpful overall thread that I've ever witnessed for improving someone's play. Keep up the great work it surely won't(+isn't) go unnoticed. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Zzzang: Yes there will be more TvP in the future, however TvP FlashStrat and Tvp 5 FactPush is enough to hit atleast B B+ if you practice your mechanics good enough. So rather than learning new strategies I suggest that you stick with these two and just keep practicing. There is no easy way out to improve than practicing. There will be some replays of those builds up shortly. Bias- thnx man^^ d1v and silversky yes it was inc however this is not done to brag or anything, just think of it as vs a good player to show that the strategy is viable. He was at B+ same as the other guy and the game ended faster than it should because he wasn't aware of the strategy i guess. He's still a very good player and Im sure that if we meet again the games will be much better! | ||
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bugus
Romania133 Posts
Also, many thanks for your hard work! | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On March 06 2009 00:49 bugus wrote: the link for TvZ 2HatchCounter is broken. Also, many thanks for your hard work! ah yes, some files deletes after a while from filefront i dont know why. Im currently playing so i cannot upload it atm but will do shortly. If any other VOD is unreachable please let me know! | ||
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