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On January 20 2009 19:45 Liquid`NonY wrote:
100% agree and endorse
non-triggers are so powerful against good players
i would add that you need to re-evaluate everything as your mechanics improve and/or your opponents' mechanics improve. im always cautious about advising people with my triggers and non-triggers because the things that my micro and macro can make possible, and my opponent's micro and macro can make possible, can vastly change the triggers.
some tricky triggers / non-triggers that i use:
for pvt, when range is done and i have a dragoon chasing an scv, i change to a move command for a while and then stop chasing. the terran knows my range should be done, but it's clearly not, so he prepares for some really fast DT or reaver
when i go 2gate obs, and my goons are harrassing his wall and see the CC, then i don't need the obs for a while, since i know his build. i either don't build obs, or i don't send them to his base. if he sees the little blurs, then he knows that i've gone 2gate obs. NOT seeing the obs could be a non-trigger for him. i don't let him have that info
very good advice specially (for me) with the goon range even though its something similar in a way to trying to hide ling speed i never thought of it
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Appreciate the tips, Day9. Very reflected and to the point. I could recognize a lot of what you talked about. I've mainly been able to map out a few triggers in early game, but mid and late game - I've mostly been winging it.
Takes a bit of commitment that I guess many dont want to put out to develop such a vast mental map of triggers to cover all the potential "imaginary players" as you put it. But anyway, short, concrete, convincing way to structure your training.
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Really enjoyed these podcasts Day9, thanks for taking the time. I would second the idea of making them available either as mp3s, or on YouTube/iTunes. I would prefer to listen to them on my iPod.
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I want to see some hydra vs zerg games 
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thanks for the transcribe, I really prefer reading
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On January 21 2009 10:17 liger13 wrote:lol.... these imaginary players sound more like quantum players (every possibility is actually there until observed) Definitely good information... no wonder good players can rape with any race... they know all the timings down
lol i had a similar feeling when he first was talking about the imaginary player. Good stuff day[9] keep them comming.
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One of the best imaginary players backfireing.
Casy vs July
This is so damn pimp
Anyone, once you start using this stuff it will help you in many cases and also opens up for new strategies vs good players, when you can fool them in different way. Makes bw so much deeper.
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The most common protoss one
Upgrade range and when scv dies cancel and build a citadel of adun.
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On January 21 2009 17:37 AnOth3rDAy wrote:One of the best imaginary players backfireing. Casy vs JulyThis is so damn pimp Anyone, once you start using this stuff it will help you in many cases and also opens up for new strategies vs good players, when you can fool them in different way. Makes bw so much deeper.
WOW that is JUST mind games man!
the imaginary player failed July here though....so it's like even if you think they're going something you gotta confirm it with scouting.
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On January 21 2009 18:09 Rucky wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2009 17:37 AnOth3rDAy wrote:One of the best imaginary players backfireing. Casy vs JulyThis is so damn pimp Anyone, once you start using this stuff it will help you in many cases and also opens up for new strategies vs good players, when you can fool them in different way. Makes bw so much deeper. WOW that is JUST mind games man! the imaginary player failed July here though....so it's like even if you think they're going something you gotta confirm it with scouting.
Yeah when you play on high level. Or on very low level when a players timing is way of and you think like, oh he's not expanding but he is, but too slow.
Also day you said u never get surprised;) There must be builds that you've met for the first time some times no?
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On January 21 2009 17:37 AnOth3rDAy wrote:One of the best imaginary players backfireing. Casy vs JulyThis is so damn pimp Anyone, once you start using this stuff it will help you in many cases and also opens up for new strategies vs good players, when you can fool them in different way. Makes bw so much deeper.
That game is actually a pimpest play. I don't remember from which year, though.
Really liked the audio "rant" Day[9] really good stuff. Great for all players, IMO.
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On January 21 2009 19:45 TaP.Nuada wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2009 17:37 AnOth3rDAy wrote:One of the best imaginary players backfireing. Casy vs JulyThis is so damn pimp Anyone, once you start using this stuff it will help you in many cases and also opens up for new strategies vs good players, when you can fool them in different way. Makes bw so much deeper. That game is actually a pimpest play. I don't remember from which year, though. Really liked the audio "rant" Day[9] really good stuff. Great for all players, IMO.
I believe the game is from 2007, so it's hasn't been features by the PP yet. I'm sure it's a MUST, though.
Waiting for PP 07! :D
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Great audio, I've been playing this game for so long and I STILL try to "wing it", and estimate my timing based on how I feel. Obviously, I am still a D on iccup.
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This is the most universally helpful commentary I've ever listened to. Great job Day[9]!
Edit: The only thing I want to mention is that I don't think it's a very good idea to use supply count as a basis for a trigger, since supply count is largely influenced by early and mid game skirmishes/battles, whereas other variables such as the build progress of tech structures are to a much lesser extent.
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While I want to say nice packaging of basic ideas, this is quite good at getting into what could be called the 'technical perfection' aspect of play. Things that come with a vast amount of experience/practice...knowing the timings/possibilities, how to react, etc. It should be noted that this is only one aspect of becoming a good player. Others include, perhaps most notably multitasking, and other such things as mental state, playing good opponents regularly, and so on. There is much in your talk that gives opportunity for discussion and thought...weather questioning your ideas or expanding upon them. In this regard I find your talk very good for the strat forum and hope to see more.
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Day:
How do you go about making your triggers from scratch?
In a build where there is really only one trigger you need to figure out process and elimination works fine, but what about when you are just starting on the build and there are multiple triggers to worry about? Do you just watch the replay and make notes on the 5-6 different things you want to adjust? Or do you go one trigger at a time until the build is 100% to the point it should be at that time?
EDIT: if you covered this I'm sorry for being annoying, but I don't think if you mentioned any methods for doing multiple trigs at once
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On January 20 2009 12:23 Not_Computer wrote:
is there any way/link I can download/save this so I can listen to it later?
Download Helper for Firefox
Found here
I actually use it to rip music from goear.com and other streaming music sites.
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Can it rip audio from YouTube vids?
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hmm interesting
somehow I think I used the imaginary player concept in my play(especially when I played in a relaxed mood), but I never articaulated it in my mind..
well this sounds stupid I guess
very good stuff d9ay
you take a lot of effort to make people play consciously so to say
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good job, imaginary player is probably the first skill/strategy I ever learned like 8 years ago. Starcraft is all about adapting.
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EPT
