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How to Improve by Legionnaire

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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1 2 3 Next All
SoMuchBetter
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Australia10606 Posts
January 11 2009 14:15 GMT
#1
+ Show Spoiler [Note] +
I did not write any of this. This is a repost of some advice from ex-progamer (P)Legionnaire which went under the radar. I believe it warrants its own thread as it deserved far more attention than it ever got.

On August 03 2008 11:56 Legionnaire wrote:

For D level players there is not much you need to think about. Just do the basics well.
Steps 1-4 are the most important for all beginners.

1 - Load up a replay of yourself. Click on the nexus/CC (harder with Z - but click on hatchery and watch the larvae / minerals) and just watch the probe production. The nexus should never stop building. It should always have 1 queued. Particularly early -mid game. If you need to ask 'when do i stop building them' you aren't at the stage in skill to EVER stop!

2 - Hotkey buildings. more improtantly, hotkey Production buildings. and learn the unit production keys.

3 - Watch your mineral count. If it gets high, utilize step 1 and 2!

4 - Scout. i always scouted late, but i pretty much knew what most ppl would do. You do not. You must scout. Scouting provides information, and information provides counters to builds. So many people build canons, or build things just for the sake of doing it. Why waste lots of money building something you dont need? When you can build something you do need!
For beginners, just learn the 2-3 most common strats that your opponsition race uses. And scout for it. If you see 1 fact or 2, your basic build should switch over to a better counter. etc. The counter doesn't need to be 'huge' it just needs to take advantage of what you've learnt. If you see a 2nd upgrade going at a fact, you can expect vulture/mines soon! Get goons! etc etc

5 - When you get an advantage, expand.

6 - Learn early game builds. Late game doesn't matter, early game is where it counts. This used to mean a lot more until everyone became replay whores, but the point still stands.

7 - Macro well. this is all hotkeys, mineral expenditure, and expanding.

*************************************

Later on you will learn things like.

- Scouting also involves knowing when the army is moving out. Then utilize the terrain to attack them.
- Does it favour you to wait for them to move into open ground to attck, or move to high ground and keep them on the low ground.
- Expand to areas that help this, an expansion in a certain location might take longer to get up and running, but for them to attack it is a lot harder.
- Expand to other mains! Seriously why does noone do this. Especially when they have ramps. You can build a few gates up there, then for the entire game you can do flanking attacks, while purely defending all game. (DEFENSIVE fights almost always has an advantage - of course you can do defensive attacking as well...). Noone is going to attack up ramps vs an army half its size, while letting the other half army flank them (or attack a now undefended base). Thus you can macro and abuse the terrain!


************************************

Maybe more advanced thinking like -

- Is their starting position in the corner of the map (think 3 player maps like longinus with spots beign top left corner, mid right and bottom left.) Top left can only be 'attacked' from 1/4 of the total map area, while mid right can be attacked by 1/2. Thus if they are midright, harass is so much more powerful.

- What does your opponent know? What can you make him think? If he has a bigger army but you have more of the map, you may need to buy time, keep your army outside his base to make him scared, if he moves out (think pvt) keep attacking/retreating, seiging tanks takes a long time , and you can buy 2 lots of production cycles from your bases just by not even doing anything but making them think you are attacking.

- Buying time. One of my favourites. You may have sneaky expansions, but you have less units as a result. You know that if the game lasts just a bit longer you will have the same/more units while having more bases. But they are about to attack. So the key is to harass.
You see them get ready to move out. (ie they start buidling vults after massing tanks. you know in the next minute they will attack.) or if they start to move. Have a shuttle with a reaver waiting out of their vision, use it to attack when they move out. Or attack their expansion with some units. They will stop their attack and focus on defence, buying you time.
The important thing with these attacks is NOT to lose your 'attacking force' easily - remember, you are buying time, if they are about to be killed, run them to the corner. A few more seconds of them chasing your last 2 goons to the edge of the map and then having to retrace their steps can be critical. This is why i liked reaver drops so much, you kill a few units, run it away, then as they get ready to move out again, you drop it back in. You can hold them up for minutes.
The object is not to do critical damage (unless the opportunity arises) so you shouldn't do risky 'do or die' attacks on the mineral line defended by anti air stuff etcetc. If you can only attack a crappy building, then attack it! He will still be just as scared as if you have gone after the mineral line. (buying time is also for waiting for an upgrade to kick in etc)

- Do the map starting locations favour certain builds? Some have more open chokes, forcing them to do different openings. Thus you have better openigns to take advantage of it.

Tonnes more stuff.


On August 03 2008 12:00 Legionnaire wrote:

If you do steps 1 to 4, and KEEP doing it, you will become a C rank player.

Even for good players. Load up a rep of yourself and do step 1, i bet you dont do it perfect, i know i didn't.

These are all quite general thinking tips for improvement and can be applied across other games... sc2 comes to mind.
AUSSIESCUM
TeamLiquid eSTROgeneral #1 • RIP
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17726 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-11 14:32:55
January 11 2009 14:27 GMT
#2
Nice read will try step 1-4 now ^^

Ty for posting somuchbetter
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
nataziel
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Australia1455 Posts
January 11 2009 15:08 GMT
#3
If you're terran I really recommend you learn walls, will help immensly and is something basic I think people need to know
u gotta sk8
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 11 2009 15:09 GMT
#4

If you do steps 1 to 4, and KEEP doing it, and you pick protoss as a race you will become a B- rank player.

"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-11 15:39:20
January 11 2009 15:21 GMT
#5
On January 12 2009 00:08 nataziel wrote:
If you're terran I really recommend you learn walls, will help immensly and is something basic I think people need to know

I agree, I have several 5 minute losses because I made leaky walls on ICCUP lololol

Everytime I logged off and made sure I knew how to wall for the next game tho ;P

On January 12 2009 00:09 HeavOnEarth wrote:
Show nested quote +

If you do steps 1 to 4, and KEEP doing it, and you pick protoss as a race you will become a B- rank player.


Don't.
1a2a3a jokes are old. Sooooo old and sooooo annoying.

Seriously, it's like posting "1st!", don't do it again please.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
TheTruthTeller
Profile Joined January 2009
United States15 Posts
January 11 2009 15:54 GMT
#6
yeah , dont do it because i got banned by VGL-Cow for saying 1a2a3a
Thats what they say...
vGl-CoW
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Belgium8305 Posts
January 11 2009 16:18 GMT
#7
great move einstein
Moderatorfollow me on twitter if u think ur so tough @BooyaCow
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-11 16:25:38
January 11 2009 16:20 GMT
#8
I don't think you can get higher than D/D+ ( which is already not that bad compared to the average 70 apm Z- pub user ) with the first 1-4 steps. Maybe C- ( as P ) late in the season with mass games + dodge.
But the advices are good .
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
WiljushkA
Profile Joined March 2006
Serbia1416 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-11 17:01:50
January 11 2009 17:00 GMT
#9
@boblion

advices are from the pgt era, when C was a lot less skilled
i remember it from back when it was first posted, but it's still great advice for begginers.
"As much as I love the image of me F5-ing paypal every 15 minutes while fist pumping and screaming "SHIP THE MONEY BITCHES"" - Day9
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 11 2009 17:05 GMT
#10
Ok sorry
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
16981 Posts
January 11 2009 17:22 GMT
#11
You know, as I was thinking, play that would be considered standard mechanical C level iccup play today would've been considered much better in the earlier PGT and WGT days. Players back then just didn't have the mechanics to constantly pump units out with decent macro and use them with today's level of strategical skill. It kind of makes it harder for many players to progress higher than a C level even though the same level of play would have been significantly higher in previous eras.
Moderator
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 11 2009 17:29 GMT
#12
That's why SC is a beastly game :O
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
MyLostTemple *
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States2921 Posts
January 11 2009 17:32 GMT
#13
actually this is fucking good. take advantage of this newbs
Follow me on twitter: CallMeTasteless
anderoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1876 Posts
January 11 2009 17:49 GMT
#14
sick guide
reminds me of artosis' learning experience in korea

"koreans are hardcore about mechanics"
it's like BRing in halo or skating in hockey, you need to get the fundamental skills as strong as possible before worrying about the advanced stuff
eXigent.
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Canada2419 Posts
January 11 2009 18:04 GMT
#15
On January 12 2009 02:00 WiljushkA wrote:
@boblion

advices are from the pgt era, when C was a lot less skilled
i remember it from back when it was first posted, but it's still great advice for begginers.


I don't think august 2008 was from the PGTour era....He wrote this during the summer, 5 months ago
Ganfei
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Taiwan1439 Posts
January 11 2009 18:28 GMT
#16
On January 12 2009 02:00 WiljushkA wrote:
@boblion

advices are from the pgt era, when C was a lot less skilled
i remember it from back when it was first posted, but it's still great advice for begginers.


On August 03 2008 11:56 Legionnaire wrote:
You are crushing me like a cheese sandwich
LordWeird
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States3411 Posts
January 11 2009 18:33 GMT
#17
Man, that is good advice. Where is Leg when you need him to add onto it?
Chains none
liquorice
Profile Joined August 2008
United States170 Posts
January 11 2009 18:40 GMT
#18
So good!

Will do this.

Thanks for posting this.
fuck yeah zerglings!
Louder
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States2276 Posts
January 11 2009 18:51 GMT
#19
On January 12 2009 02:32 MyLostTemple wrote:
actually this is fucking good. take advantage of this newbs


What's cute is the newbs arguing about ICCup rank Like that's the point of the post or something...
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-13 04:13:50
January 11 2009 18:52 GMT
#20
His point are still valid even though there might be some era bias. Just change you're idea of decent macro and the guide's still very legit.


On August 03 2008 12:00 Legionnaire wrote:

If you do steps 1 to 4, and KEEP doing it, you will become a C rank player.


Remember, this is the kid who had 3 builds, 1 for each MU, and made the top 48. Really impressive, because it means that he was able to get up to B+ using that advice.

I think there should be a ![G] in front of this, or at least a [G].

Nice find SoMuchBetter.

Edit: This post was incredibly misconstrued - I know Leg's was amazing way back (still is) and I'm saying that his ability to make the top 48 in TSL knowing only 3 builds is a testament to his talent and therefore his advice. He made it without the benefit of modern macro and modern build orders, which is kind of indicator of the question, "If we brought back Boxer from 2001", and Leg has shown that at least he'd be competitive - very competitive.

I meant no insult to Leg or his ability to play Starcraft.
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
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