|
+ Show Spoiler [Note] +I did not write any of this. This is a repost of some advice from ex-progamer  Legionnaire which went under the radar. I believe it warrants its own thread as it deserved far more attention than it ever got.
On August 03 2008 11:56 Legionnaire wrote:
For D level players there is not much you need to think about. Just do the basics well.
Steps 1-4 are the most important for all beginners.
1 - Load up a replay of yourself. Click on the nexus/CC (harder with Z - but click on hatchery and watch the larvae / minerals) and just watch the probe production. The nexus should never stop building. It should always have 1 queued. Particularly early -mid game. If you need to ask 'when do i stop building them' you aren't at the stage in skill to EVER stop!
2 - Hotkey buildings. more improtantly, hotkey Production buildings. and learn the unit production keys.
3 - Watch your mineral count. If it gets high, utilize step 1 and 2!
4 - Scout. i always scouted late, but i pretty much knew what most ppl would do. You do not. You must scout. Scouting provides information, and information provides counters to builds. So many people build canons, or build things just for the sake of doing it. Why waste lots of money building something you dont need? When you can build something you do need!
For beginners, just learn the 2-3 most common strats that your opponsition race uses. And scout for it. If you see 1 fact or 2, your basic build should switch over to a better counter. etc. The counter doesn't need to be 'huge' it just needs to take advantage of what you've learnt. If you see a 2nd upgrade going at a fact, you can expect vulture/mines soon! Get goons! etc etc
5 - When you get an advantage, expand.
6 - Learn early game builds. Late game doesn't matter, early game is where it counts. This used to mean a lot more until everyone became replay whores, but the point still stands.
7 - Macro well. this is all hotkeys, mineral expenditure, and expanding.
*************************************
Later on you will learn things like.
- Scouting also involves knowing when the army is moving out. Then utilize the terrain to attack them.
- Does it favour you to wait for them to move into open ground to attck, or move to high ground and keep them on the low ground.
- Expand to areas that help this, an expansion in a certain location might take longer to get up and running, but for them to attack it is a lot harder.
- Expand to other mains! Seriously why does noone do this. Especially when they have ramps. You can build a few gates up there, then for the entire game you can do flanking attacks, while purely defending all game. (DEFENSIVE fights almost always has an advantage - of course you can do defensive attacking as well...). Noone is going to attack up ramps vs an army half its size, while letting the other half army flank them (or attack a now undefended base). Thus you can macro and abuse the terrain!
************************************
Maybe more advanced thinking like -
- Is their starting position in the corner of the map (think 3 player maps like longinus with spots beign top left corner, mid right and bottom left.) Top left can only be 'attacked' from 1/4 of the total map area, while mid right can be attacked by 1/2. Thus if they are midright, harass is so much more powerful.
- What does your opponent know? What can you make him think? If he has a bigger army but you have more of the map, you may need to buy time, keep your army outside his base to make him scared, if he moves out (think pvt) keep attacking/retreating, seiging tanks takes a long time , and you can buy 2 lots of production cycles from your bases just by not even doing anything but making them think you are attacking.
- Buying time. One of my favourites. You may have sneaky expansions, but you have less units as a result. You know that if the game lasts just a bit longer you will have the same/more units while having more bases. But they are about to attack. So the key is to harass.
You see them get ready to move out. (ie they start buidling vults after massing tanks. you know in the next minute they will attack.) or if they start to move. Have a shuttle with a reaver waiting out of their vision, use it to attack when they move out. Or attack their expansion with some units. They will stop their attack and focus on defence, buying you time.
The important thing with these attacks is NOT to lose your 'attacking force' easily - remember, you are buying time, if they are about to be killed, run them to the corner. A few more seconds of them chasing your last 2 goons to the edge of the map and then having to retrace their steps can be critical. This is why i liked reaver drops so much, you kill a few units, run it away, then as they get ready to move out again, you drop it back in. You can hold them up for minutes.
The object is not to do critical damage (unless the opportunity arises) so you shouldn't do risky 'do or die' attacks on the mineral line defended by anti air stuff etcetc. If you can only attack a crappy building, then attack it! He will still be just as scared as if you have gone after the mineral line. (buying time is also for waiting for an upgrade to kick in etc)
- Do the map starting locations favour certain builds? Some have more open chokes, forcing them to do different openings. Thus you have better openigns to take advantage of it.
Tonnes more stuff.
On August 03 2008 12:00 Legionnaire wrote:
If you do steps 1 to 4, and KEEP doing it, you will become a C rank player.
Even for good players. Load up a rep of yourself and do step 1, i bet you dont do it perfect, i know i didn't.
These are all quite general thinking tips for improvement and can be applied across other games... sc2 comes to mind.
|
Nice read will try step 1-4 now ^^
Ty for posting somuchbetter 
|
If you're terran I really recommend you learn walls, will help immensly and is something basic I think people need to know
|
If you do steps 1 to 4, and KEEP doing it, and you pick protoss as a race you will become a B- rank player.
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On January 12 2009 00:08 nataziel wrote:
If you're terran I really recommend you learn walls, will help immensly and is something basic I think people need to know
I agree, I have several 5 minute losses because I made leaky walls on ICCUP lololol
Everytime I logged off and made sure I knew how to wall for the next game tho ;P
On January 12 2009 00:09 HeavOnEarth wrote:Show nested quote +
If you do steps 1 to 4, and KEEP doing it, and you pick protoss as a race you will become a B- rank player.
Don't.
1a2a3a jokes are old. Sooooo old and sooooo annoying.
Seriously, it's like posting "1st!", don't do it again please.
|
yeah , dont do it because i got banned by VGL-Cow for saying 1a2a3a
|
Belgium8305 Posts
|
I don't think you can get higher than D/D+ ( which is already not that bad compared to the average 70 apm Z- pub user ) with the first 1-4 steps. Maybe C- ( as P ) late in the season with mass games + dodge.
But the advices are good  .
|
@boblion
advices are from the pgt era, when C was a lot less skilled
i remember it from back when it was first posted, but it's still great advice for begginers.
|
Ok sorry 
|
16978 Posts
You know, as I was thinking, play that would be considered standard mechanical C level iccup play today would've been considered much better in the earlier PGT and WGT days. Players back then just didn't have the mechanics to constantly pump units out with decent macro and use them with today's level of strategical skill. It kind of makes it harder for many players to progress higher than a C level even though the same level of play would have been significantly higher in previous eras.
|
That's why SC is a beastly game :O
|
MyLostTemple
United States2921 Posts
actually this is fucking good. take advantage of this newbs
|
sick guide
reminds me of artosis' learning experience in korea
"koreans are hardcore about mechanics"
it's like BRing in halo or skating in hockey, you need to get the fundamental skills as strong as possible before worrying about the advanced stuff
|
On January 12 2009 02:00 WiljushkA wrote:@boblion advices are from the pgt era, when C was a lot less skilled i remember it from back when it was first posted, but it's still great advice for begginers.
I don't think august 2008 was from the PGTour era....He wrote this during the summer, 5 months ago
|
On January 12 2009 02:00 WiljushkA wrote:@boblion advices are from the pgt era, when C was a lot less skilled i remember it from back when it was first posted, but it's still great advice for begginers.
On August 03 2008 11:56 Legionnaire wrote:
|
Man, that is good advice. Where is Leg when you need him to add onto it?
|
So good!
Will do this.
Thanks for posting this.
|
On January 12 2009 02:32 MyLostTemple wrote:
actually this is fucking good. take advantage of this newbs
What's cute is the newbs arguing about ICCup rank Like that's the point of the post or something...
|
His point are still valid even though there might be some era bias. Just change you're idea of decent macro and the guide's still very legit.
On August 03 2008 12:00 Legionnaire wrote:
If you do steps 1 to 4, and KEEP doing it, you will become a C rank player.
Remember, this is the kid who had 3 builds, 1 for each MU, and made the top 48. Really impressive, because it means that he was able to get up to B+ using that advice.
I think there should be a ![G] in front of this, or at least a [G].
Nice find SoMuchBetter.
Edit: This post was incredibly misconstrued - I know Leg's was amazing way back (still is) and I'm saying that his ability to make the top 48 in TSL knowing only 3 builds is a testament to his talent and therefore his advice. He made it without the benefit of modern macro and modern build orders, which is kind of indicator of the question, "If we brought back Boxer from 2001", and Leg has shown that at least he'd be competitive - very competitive.
I meant no insult to Leg or his ability to play Starcraft.
|
basically legionnaire's tips are good for improving macro..
1. keep making workers non stop --> macro
2. hotkey Production buildings. and learn the unit production keys. --> macro
|
4 - Scout. i always scouted late, but i pretty much knew what most ppl would do. You do not. You must scout.
Looks like we have a hacker in our hands!
|
I've just started playing on ICCUP and these fundamentals are solid advice. I think at the low skill levels of the game, good macro is far more important that good micro. In every game I've played so far the win has gone to the biggest a-move (Not a protoss knock, we Zerg can a-move too).
Thanks for the repost.
|
This needs to be in recomended threads, cause this is a great tip for low level players
|
On January 12 2009 03:52 thunk wrote:His point are still valid even though there might be some era bias. Just change you're idea of decent macro and the guide's still very legit. Show nested quote +
On August 03 2008 12:00 Legionnaire wrote:
If you do steps 1 to 4, and KEEP doing it, you will become a C rank player.
Remember, this is the kid who had 3 builds, 1 for each MU, and made the top 48. Really impressive, because it means that he was able to get up to B+ using that advice. I think there should be a ![G] in front of this, or at least a [G]. Nice find SoMuchBetter.
This is the "Kid" that went to korea and basically played and lived as a progamer for a number of years, also managed to beat Xellos and Boxer, while setting a record for highest kills on a reaver and all-killing an entire pro-gaming team.
|
On January 12 2009 07:13 meRz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2009 03:52 thunk wrote:His point are still valid even though there might be some era bias. Just change you're idea of decent macro and the guide's still very legit.
On August 03 2008 12:00 Legionnaire wrote:
If you do steps 1 to 4, and KEEP doing it, you will become a C rank player.
Remember, this is the kid who had 3 builds, 1 for each MU, and made the top 48. Really impressive, because it means that he was able to get up to B+ using that advice. I think there should be a ![G] in front of this, or at least a [G]. Nice find SoMuchBetter. This is the "Kid" that went to korea and basically played and lived as a progamer for a number of years, also managed to beat Xellos and Boxer, while setting a record for highest kills on a reaver and all-killing an entire pro-gaming team.
Don't forget he destroyed the first (and only) PGT Tournament.
Saying he was able to get up to B+ is almost an insult to Leg. In his prime he was easily able to reach A+ on PGT.
|
Braavos36374 Posts
On January 12 2009 03:52 thunk wrote:His point are still valid even though there might be some era bias. Just change you're idea of decent macro and the guide's still very legit. Show nested quote +
On August 03 2008 12:00 Legionnaire wrote:
If you do steps 1 to 4, and KEEP doing it, you will become a C rank player.
Remember, this is the kid who had 3 builds, 1 for each MU, and made the top 48. Really impressive, because it means that he was able to get up to B+ using that advice. I think there should be a ![G] in front of this, or at least a [G]. Nice find SoMuchBetter.
i know you meant well, but making the TSL Top 48 is probably last in Legionnaires list of accomplishments hehe
|
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
professional cheque stealer is at the top.
|
On January 12 2009 03:52 thunk wrote:His point are still valid even though there might be some era bias. Just change you're idea of decent macro and the guide's still very legit. Show nested quote +
On August 03 2008 12:00 Legionnaire wrote:
If you do steps 1 to 4, and KEEP doing it, you will become a C rank player.
Remember, this is the kid who had 3 builds, 1 for each MU, and made the top 48. Really impressive, because it means that he was able to get up to B+ using that advice. I think there should be a ![G] in front of this, or at least a [G]. Nice find SoMuchBetter.
Oh my god.
Well, 3k posts in not even a year...
"This kid"
hilarious.
|
all you have to do is play perfectly, the more mistakes you make the less likely you can win. thats why newbs are newbs they dont even know what mistakes to not make LOL.
|
On January 12 2009 03:52 thunk wrote:
His point are still valid even though there might be some era bias. Just change you're idea of decent macro and the guide's still very legit.
i don't think theres any era bias at all. leg's advice is pretty much as fundamental as you can get
On January 12 2009 09:01 Hypnosis wrote:
all you have to do is play perfectly, the more mistakes you make the less likely you can win. thats why newbs are newbs they dont even know what mistakes to not make LOL.
great advice let me send that off to all the progamers right now. stork might even want to know that making the mistake of not getting goon range was a bad idea
|
This guide will get help players get to D+ level (maaybbee C-), but not C as the guide claims. I know this was written during the PGT period, but I just wanted to point that out.
|
Osaka27140 Posts
This post was written 5 months ago -_-
|
Mexico1178 Posts
im living proof, just reseted my nick and playing doing only this, lets see how long it takes
|
On January 12 2009 17:24 zXk3 wrote:
im living proof, just reseted my nick and playing doing only this, lets see how long it takes
gl
|
Australia4514 Posts
hee hee.
You would be surprised how hard 1 is to do. Its something that you should aspire too, trying to improve it as much as you can. I doubt a single person in the TSL did 1 perfectly for the first 15mins of any game, in any of the 1000 games or so that were played. (zerg would be hard to quantify)
Another bit of advice. Never be afraid to lose. Try and go out of your comfort zone whenever you can. Losing if utilized correctly is a lesson to be learned. I know its a good ego trip to win 80% of the time vs your friends or to be the best player in a clan or channel. But you aren't learning anything that can make yourself better.
You should find a few people who are just a fraction better than you are, and play verse them. Over time without even noticing it, you will be stealing their skills and improving. At which time you then find newer people.
This is a 'do as i say, not as i do' post. As i didn't like going out of my comfort zone vs zerg. Hence i sucked It was so much easier slapping around terrans.
Oh shit sorry about the bump. :S
|
On March 07 2009 11:39 Legionnaire wrote:
Try and go out of your comfort zone whenever you can. Losing if utilized correctly is a lesson to be learned.
epic quote, will save and reflect upon it. thank you sir.
|
You're really supposed to continue pumping drones in the mid game as zerg? I thought you were supposed to drone whore until a certain point and then make units (and obviously drone up your expos).
|
On January 12 2009 17:16 Seraphim wrote:
This guide will get help players get to D+ level (maaybbee C-), but not C as the guide claims. I know this was written during the PGT period, but I just wanted to point that out.
It's fairly certain one can get to C if you can fufill all the requirements of these steps.
|
On March 07 2009 12:39 Crunchums wrote:
You're really supposed to continue pumping drones in the mid game as zerg? I thought you were supposed to drone whore until a certain point and then make units (and obviously drone up your expos).
It's been recently discussed that good zerg players make drones throughout the game. It takes practice to know when you can fit in a few extra drones without getting destroyed.
|
On March 07 2009 12:39 Crunchums wrote:
You're really supposed to continue pumping drones in the mid game as zerg? I thought you were supposed to drone whore until a certain point and then make units (and obviously drone up your expos).
imo you should drone whore until you have the best eco you can get without losing the game, after that only making army and expanding (and only droning at the new expansions)
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
