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On December 07 2008 09:02 onepost wrote:
Does the third hatchery count if it's not built at a mineral spot? My understanding of the 3-hatch mutalisk build is that you build a third base, which gives you the volumes and economical advantage later on.
3 hatch = you get 3 hatcheries then gas and lair and your next hatchery is your 3rd base (4th hatchery).
2 hatch = you get 2 hatcheries then gas and lair and your next hatchery is your 3rd base (3rd hatchery).
On the topic of 'keeping it simple', the sorts of builds you suggest are micro intensive, multitask intensive, and unless a build like 2 hatch muta or 1 base carrier completely rapes your opponent and you win, then you need game knowledge to be able to follow through and not lose your advantage, and even worse if the strat just plain fails because they were ready for it, you need to be able to play catch-up. These strats aren't keepign it simple at all. Although it does 'keep iccup simple', because if you fail you can gg and try again and mass cheese your way to C-.
Keeping it simple would be playing standard, and having a game plan that minimises the ammount of multitasking required. mutalisk scourge into mass hydra zvp with lots of maneuvering around the map and flanking means lots of multitasking. Lurker ling contain means less multitasking, all the action happening in one area, etc. Keeping it simple is turtling to 200/200 terran, or going +1 speedlot rush with protoss.
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you're all failing so hard to this troll, it's unbearable. please onepost, make it stop.
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On December 07 2008 10:59 hide.X wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2008 09:02 onepost wrote:
Does the third hatchery count if it's not built at a mineral spot? My understanding of the 3-hatch mutalisk build is that you build a third base, which gives you the volumes and economical advantage later on.
3 hatch = you get 3 hatcheries then gas and lair and your next hatchery is your 3rd base (4th hatchery). 2 hatch = you get 2 hatcheries then gas and lair and your next hatchery is your 3rd base (3rd hatchery).
Thanks for the distinction. I'm no Zerg player (I play Protoss, some Terran) so I don't know their build orders very well.
On the topic of 'keeping it simple', the sorts of builds you suggest are micro intensive, multitask intensive, and unless a build like 2 hatch muta or 1 base carrier completely rapes your opponent and you win, then you need game knowledge to be able to follow through and not lose your advantage, and even worse if the strat just plain fails because they were ready for it, you need to be able to play catch-up. These strats aren't keepign it simple at all. Although it does 'keep iccup simple', because if you fail you can gg and try again and mass cheese your way to C-.
On that I beg to differ. I play Go, and strong Go players tend to say what you say, that playing safe and standard is better than risking to completely collapse early on. But my way of playing Go is to start a big fight that spreads all over the board until either side does collapse. To hell with territory. Because in the end, winning is winning and losing is losing, whether by one point or one hundred points. In other words, all or nothing strategies are playable.
As for catching up, I already sort of addressed it: if your inital plan won't work, defend and switch tech instead of committing suicide.
Keeping it simple would be playing standard, and having a game plan that minimises the ammount of multitasking required. mutalisk scourge into mass hydra zvp with lots of maneuvering around the map and flanking means lots of multitasking. Lurker ling contain means less multitasking, all the action happening in one area, etc. Keeping it simple is turtling to 200/200 terran, or going +1 speedlot rush with protoss.
Interesting view, at least if your mechanics are somewhat deficient compared to your opponent.
You suggest going +1 speedlot rushing. That goes along the lines of what I wrote in "No you don't!" because that build is perfect against FE or tech builds with insufficient defense. But then again, this is all or nothing as well, so you're arguing a bit against yourself, I believe.
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very good thread, thanks to the OP for your insights of the game
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On December 07 2008 11:29 DukE wrote:
you're all failing so hard to this troll, it's unbearable. please onepost, make it stop.
A troll? Where? 
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Your "counter" games are just horrible. I can only speak for the games including a zerg as my knowledge of p and t is lacking at best. Hydrarush isn't a counter to the bisu build just as a firebat push isnt a counter to the 2 hatch/3hatch muta. Not knowing the difference between those makes me wonder if you have...
..ok I actually read through more of the OP and realized you have to be trolling, don't quite get all the thankful people. Is this some sort of inside joke?
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On December 07 2008 12:03 Supah wrote:
Your "counter" games are just horrible. I can only speak for the games including a zerg as my knowledge of p and t is lacking at best. Hydrarush isn't a counter to the bisu build just as a firebat push isnt a counter to the 2 hatch/3hatch muta. Not knowing the difference between those makes me wonder if you have...
Did you watch the games? These are proof that it worked at least once.
Besides, my guide isn't about build X countering build Y; it's about thinking outside the box.
..ok I actually read through more of the OP and realized you have to be trolling, don't quite get all the thankful people. Is this some sort of inside joke?
I don't know what you're talking about.
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I've watched them and remembered them well enough to recognize the game from the still picture of the youtube link. ;P
I still think you're trolling, but if no mod closes this in a day or so I guess I will take the bait.
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I agree with supah after reading the thread, op answers are just so poor. If your not trolling then please take a time to reevaluate your work and read some better guides. I expect chill to close this in one day, theres nothing coming from this thread.
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On December 07 2008 15:46 malongo wrote:
I expect chill to close this in one day, theres nothing coming from this thread.
There's a bunch of nit-picking little gosus popping up to refute every little trivial detail.
But HEY! That's better than a misleading op, at least THEY'RE contributing, riiiiiiiight?
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I'm not absolutely sure it's a troll, but the strategies and the fact they were done on maps like Plasma, Troy, and Katrina really don't offer too much insight into standard play.
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On December 06 2008 06:33 onepost wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2008 05:54 vAltyR wrote:as an example/demonstration: In a recent PvT Help thread, I suggest (jokingly, before anyone comments on my noobishness  ) corsair/ht mixed with the usual protoss ground force to combat the terran push. The reasoning behind that was the stargate and fleet beacon would tip off the terran that you were going carriers, so he would mass goliaths. Then you build high templars to counter the inevitable mass goliaths, and corsairs with disruption web to help against the tanks. The point is to get him to waste money massing goliaths instead of more tanks. Also, if he doesn't scout it or doesn't switch to goliaths, you can easily tech switch to carriers since you already have the tech required for them. Arbiters are just a tribunal away as well. If it does work, that's resources well spent. The risk however is that the Terran realizes soon enough that he's being conned.
I think you could tell that they werent going carriers after a few drops or scans though.. plus you would probably see the sairs and be like wtf? Which might work..
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I liked this Op.
I did not learn anything from it, rather I had a good time rewatching a few vods and hearing a perspective how certain things in starcraft can play out. I spent more time in my own thoughts then trying to digest the ops main points ...
I thought this was well-thought out and entertaining. 5/5. Keep it up. Some of the things you say are .... crazy and or dramatic and or wrong, but I didn't read this to reach A-, I read it because it was a good way to spend a couple minutes.
Thanks!
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I also agree that though there wasn't much to learn from the OP, I'm pretty sure there are a lot of things that were discussed that most people think is common sense but end up failing to realize that they also have these problems too.
Nonetheless, this is also a good source of related VODs 
Plus a good read too, not too deep or serious either.
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On December 07 2008 15:53 roadrunner_sc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2008 15:46 malongo wrote:
I expect chill to close this in one day, theres nothing coming from this thread. There's a bunch of nit-picking little gosus popping up to refute every little trivial detail. But HEY! That's better than a misleading op, at least THEY'RE contributing, riiiiiiiight?
Now stupidity increases people start arguing about what the other says/thinks and the flamewar goes on. Nice end of thread, good job troll.
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People are just mean for flaming the OP, if you don't have anything constructive to say, don't say shit at all. and if you guys have actually read the conversations between us and the OP, you would not have say "nothing coming from this thread". and No Chill is not going to close this, but he might ban you guys for flaming.
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I wasn't actually trying to make onepost look bad, and I didn't.
Nit-picking on little trivial strategical details in a strategy forum. Holy shit, what assholes. They weren't even little or trivial points either, and even if they were, it doesn't matter because onepost's guide isn't going to be ruined.
Furthermore, "at least THEY'RE contributing, riiiiiight?" - Yes. If people didn't nit-pick on major details, then there'd be random unchallenged guides to using bisu build pvt and chumps everywhere memorising the build orders because everyone was too polite to go 'hey the build is good and all and your bisu build guide is great but you dont use it versus terran you asshole', and then everyone wins because you get to learn bisu build and also learn not to use it against terran and hence the magic of teamliquid and community discussion and strategy forums blah blah I intentionally made my point long-winded when I could have been concise because I want to waste your time, roadrunner_sc.
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On December 07 2008 17:29 hide.X wrote:
I wasn't actually trying to make onepost look bad, and I didn't.
Nit-picking on little trivial strategical details in a strategy forum. Holy shit, what assholes. They weren't even little or trivial points either, and even if they were, it doesn't matter because onepost's guide isn't going to be ruined.
Furthermore, "at least THEY'RE contributing, riiiiiight?" - Yes. If people didn't nit-pick on major details, then there'd be random unchallenged guides to using bisu build pvt and chumps everywhere memorising the build orders because everyone was too polite to go 'hey the build is good and all and your bisu build guide is great but you dont use it versus terran you asshole', and then everyone wins because you get to learn bisu build and also learn not to use it against terran and hence the magic of teamliquid and community discussion and strategy forums blah blah I intentionally made my point long-winded when I could have been concise because I want to waste your time, roadrunner_sc.
You are a shitty poster and you analogies are garbage.
Chill, can you get a purge picture please?
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EPT
