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Hi,
I understand how SK Terran works more or less, but I want to understand the reasons why it works, and the theory behind the build (and why it's so strong). That might be a bit too general, so I'll try and narrow it down with some related questions:
1. There are no tanks used so all gas can go towards vessels, correct?
2. What constitutes enough vessels? Too many vessels? For example I sometimes see Ts take a 3rd gas and add a 3rd starport for more vessels when they already have a cloud of about 12.
3. What is the response for SK Terran vs. a hydra-lurk strategy from Z? What else from Z counters this strategy?
4. Since there are so many vessels and energy accumulates... What are some good situations to use a bunch of Defensive Matrices?
5. What's an ideal army to move out against the Z? How's three groups of marines, one of medics, and the vessel cloud?
That's all I can think of for now that I'd like to know, but if anyone has any other useful/interesting info about the build, then post away! I'm trying to get away from playing 2factory style TvZ and move into this, so knowing the ins and outs of this strategy would really help.
Thanks.
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D Player response:
1. Yup.
2. You can never have too many Vessels. Infinite Irradiate is every Zergs worst nightmare.
3. Get tanks? If you want to keep going SK... I don't really know what you're asking, it's just micro.
4. When there's lurkers on top of a ramp, you can d matrix a rine or so to help absorb damage while the rest run up behind it... works only if the Zerg is too distracted to target fire though. D matrixing dropships is good when the Zerg is depending on scourge too much. I dunno, there's a lot of situations it's useful in.. If you have enough to d matrix your whole army you're pretty much invincible... against ultras it's really good to soak up damage, and usually a Zerg is too busy to micro his sunkens, so sending in a d matrixed rine first helps break lines.
5. That's fine... The main advantage of SK Terran is mobility though... maybe that's not the right word for it, but that you can attack in multiple places at once with different groups of marine medic similtaneously, which is really hard for Zergs to deal with since even 8 marines and a medic is enough to shut down an expo with minimal defences.
The idea of SKTerran I think is that you're less of an invincible ball, and more of a bunch of attack parties, + your main army which you use to handle the Zergs main army.
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1. Yes, vessels and upgrades
2. You can never have "too many" vessels considering that you'll lose some of them in battle. If you secured a third with gas, you can add factories and make tanks to spend your extra resources. SK build is just a build, you still have to adapt to the game, opening m&m/vessels doesn't mean you can't make other units later on.
3. Hydra/lurker is good vs. SK, especially if plague is in the picture. Also good is fast upgraded ultras/ling, a recent popular build that skips lurkers to go hive after mutas are out, when the +4 ultras pop out initially they are very strong vs. +2 marines, combined with swarm and cracklings it is a good combo vs SK.
4. If you have too much accumulated energy, you are not irradiating aggressive enough. Lower level terran with slow multitasking tend to have trouble with the SK build, because they can't use vessels effectively. Against a good zerg you should feel that he is pumping out units faster than you can recharge your energy for irradiation...so, if you want to go SK, train yourself to irradiate more aggressively. That said, D matrix is not used when you have excess energy, but when the situation calls for it, like breaking a sunken line, or protecting a dropship raid.
5. Yes that's a good army. With the SK build you can't attack zerg directly if he has a group of lurkers borrowed, just keep irradiating and hunt his expos. You have 2 starports so make some dropships to attack everywhere at once. Losing a dropship of marines in the SK build is like who cares, but let's say you attack 3 places with your main army and two drops simultaneously, it's up to the zerg's skills to defend all 3 at the same time, if he responded slow to any of your attacks you'll do a lot of damage.
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Thanks guys.
And I remembered one more question I had: do any map considerations affect SK Terran or make a 2fact tank strategy preferable?
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On June 25 2008 05:06 Ryot wrote:
Thanks guys.
And I remembered one more question I had: do any map considerations affect SK Terran or make a 2fact tank strategy preferable?
A bigger deal to consider I think is lag. I find SK Terran hard on bnet because the lag makes mnm versus lurkers impossible hence 2 fact tank. But if you're confident in your micro in laggy conditions, go ahead and master SK terran. The only map that I can think of that would cause someone to go instant SK terran is 815 with the semi island structure and the small ramps.
I thought that the biggest thing that people missed in (3) was defiler high tech. Swarm and plague in conjunction with said unit combinations can rip apart SK terran with good control and strong spell casting. Example? Iris versus Savior on Arknoid. All those highlight vids where you see 1 muta take out a bunch of Science Vessels are because of the defiler.
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A major thing is dropships, you want to make at least 1 dropship per every 2 vessels.
Its really rare that you get to have 12 or so vessels, which are more than enough, you may want to spend the rest of your gas in tanks and dropships if you ever do.
Matrix is better than irradiate when the zerg relies on ultraling and he is on top of you. Irradiate before he engages or only irradiate defilers and back ultras, or you can also irradiate your own vessels i guess.
You want to be aggressive, if you turtle and get 7 groups of marines, that will simply not work.
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sk terran relies heavily on constant aggression. Basically, you should always have an army out in the field. If you get contained by lurkers or get swarms shoved up your natural, its pretty much game.
It is very apm intensive and multitasking intensive, honestly i would only recommend it for C players and above.
Without having to siege and unsiege tanks constantly, sk terran allows the terran player to move around the map quickly and attack at multiple points. The multiple starports allow for constant drop play as well as supporting a vessel cloud which can decimate expensive zerg units and can damage economy (eraser).
However, marines are very weak and can die quickly if you let your eye off of them for a few seconds too long. Breaking ramps and taking down lurker groups requires a high level of micro. Vessels, the other section of your army, are also very weak. I think we have all seen (or experienced  ) a plagued cloud get destroyed by a lone mutalisk, often ending the game. Especially with bnet lag, it is extremely difficult to watch over multiple groups of mnm and keep your cloud safe while macroing (macroing mnm is harder too, as they build so fast). Keeping up with upgrades is also key as i believe non-upgraded marines do .5 damage to a fully upgraded ultra.
If you can do it, more power to ya, if not, honestly stick with the standard timing push. Its much easier and more fullproof.
edit: i think i have a nice replay of sk terran somewhere, ill find it ina sec
edit2: crap nvm i cant find it -_-
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There is certainly a thing as too many vessels. If energy stacks up faster than you can use it, build tanks. It's as easy as that.
It's a very multitasking intensive build, so if you choose to play it without pro level multitasking, you have to adapt it to your level of play. If you can't use 24 vessels, don't build them.
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If a person has the micro to do irad, matrix, and maybe even emp, vessels are way more brutal than tanks.
Gives terran much more mobility and counter/raiding options.
Eventually (after like 12-15 vessels) you might wanna consider adding a few BC to your MnM/vessel army. Just because the only way they are gonna stop that is with hydras (or devourer), which suck vs MnM and vessel.
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Can someone give a rough figure of the minimum apm necessary to pull of SK Terran somewhat effectively?
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Can someone give a rough figure of the minimum apm necessary to pull of SK Terran somewhat effectively?
I unnno... like 150 should be sufficient. It depends what you like doing with your actions lol. More is better, but as far as splitting your marines properly and macroing your rax... really not that demanding. I think really any level of player can use SKTerran as long as their Zerg opponent is their same level... so really, I can see 70ish apm players experiencing success with it.
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On June 25 2008 08:10 CharlieMurphy wrote:
If a person has the micro to do irad, matrix, and maybe even emp, vessels are way more brutal than tanks.
Gives terran much more mobility and counter/raiding options.
Eventually (after like 12-15 vessels) you might wanna consider adding a few BC to your MnM/vessel army. Just because the only way they are gonna stop that is with hydras (or devourer), which suck vs MnM and vessel.
Hydralurker is awesome vs SKTerran though.
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On June 25 2008 08:10 CharlieMurphy wrote:
If a person has the micro to do irad, matrix, and maybe even emp, vessels are way more brutal than tanks.
Gives terran much more mobility and counter/raiding options.
Eventually (after like 12-15 vessels) you might wanna consider adding a few BC to your MnM/vessel army. Just because the only way they are gonna stop that is with hydras (or devourer), which suck vs MnM and vessel.
BC is too slow to fit into the fast-paced playstyle of SK Terran. Much better option would be to start massing dropships and double, even triple dropping random bases and/or the main. We've all seen examples of where the zerg is going along fine in his macro rhythm until the terran drops 3 bases with 4 dropships right as the Zerg's next batch of units is morphing.
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HydraLurk is entertaining vs SK Terran, micro-intensive. And yeah, it will be sooo fun too see tons of D-Matrixed marines go at it against Lurkers, hahaha.
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What does SK mean in SK Terran anyway? South Korea? Silky Kumar? Hahaha. Sorry for the noobishness.
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On June 25 2008 10:52 SilverSkyLark wrote:
What does SK mean in SK Terran anyway? South Korea? Silky Kumar? Hahaha. Sorry for the noobishness.
SoulKey; he was a progamer and SK terran was his style.
It was popularized with Nada, who had enough APM and mechanics to pull it off correctly and with style.
It has nothing to do with the SKT1 terran nobility as far as I know.
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On June 25 2008 11:04 thunk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2008 10:52 SilverSkyLark wrote:
What does SK mean in SK Terran anyway? South Korea? Silky Kumar? Hahaha. Sorry for the noobishness. SoulKey; he was a progamer and SK terran was his style. It was popularized with Nada, who had enough APM and mechanics to pull it off correctly and with style. It has nothing to do with the SKT1 terran nobility as far as I know.
doesnt it? i thought SKT1 was another way to say they were #1 at using SKterran. well its telecom but but...
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On June 25 2008 11:29 ramen247 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2008 11:04 thunk wrote:On June 25 2008 10:52 SilverSkyLark wrote:
What does SK mean in SK Terran anyway? South Korea? Silky Kumar? Hahaha. Sorry for the noobishness. SoulKey; he was a progamer and SK terran was his style. It was popularized with Nada, who had enough APM and mechanics to pull it off correctly and with style. It has nothing to do with the SKT1 terran nobility as far as I know. doesnt it? i thought SKT1 was another way to say they were #1 at using SKterran. well its telecom but but...
skt1 is definately because there name is SK Telecom
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On June 25 2008 11:38 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2008 11:29 ramen247 wrote:On June 25 2008 11:04 thunk wrote:On June 25 2008 10:52 SilverSkyLark wrote:
What does SK mean in SK Terran anyway? South Korea? Silky Kumar? Hahaha. Sorry for the noobishness. SoulKey; he was a progamer and SK terran was his style. It was popularized with Nada, who had enough APM and mechanics to pull it off correctly and with style. It has nothing to do with the SKT1 terran nobility as far as I know. doesnt it? i thought SKT1 was another way to say they were #1 at using SKterran. well its telecom but but... skt1 is definately because there name is SK Telecom
well i dont think they came up with SK just out of nothing. Im pretty sure they were influenced by the presence of a terran strat called SK terran. they couldve been called FUtelecom.
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On June 25 2008 11:55 ramen247 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2008 11:38 DamageControL wrote:On June 25 2008 11:29 ramen247 wrote:On June 25 2008 11:04 thunk wrote:On June 25 2008 10:52 SilverSkyLark wrote:
What does SK mean in SK Terran anyway? South Korea? Silky Kumar? Hahaha. Sorry for the noobishness. SoulKey; he was a progamer and SK terran was his style. It was popularized with Nada, who had enough APM and mechanics to pull it off correctly and with style. It has nothing to do with the SKT1 terran nobility as far as I know. doesnt it? i thought SKT1 was another way to say they were #1 at using SKterran. well its telecom but but... skt1 is definately because there name is SK Telecom well i dont think they came up with SK just out of nothing. Im pretty sure they were influenced by the presence of a terran strat called SK terran. they couldve been called FUtelecom.
Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, SK stands for South Korea.
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On June 25 2008 11:07 Tropics wrote:
Soul Key
Been discussed many times, he wrote the strat back in like 1999 or sometime. It just got more popular much later.
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SK stands for Sun Kyung, its a cellphone company.
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Pfff, South Korea makes far more sense :p
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"SK Telecom" is the company that sponsors them... It has nothing to do with SK Terran.
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I think SK in SKT1 is South Korea...
and thanks for the SoulKey thinggy, nice game id there.
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On June 25 2008 13:21 tracer wrote:
"SK Telecom" is the company that sponsors them... It has nothing to do with SK Terran.
This is the truth.
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On June 25 2008 20:40 SilverSkyLark wrote:
I think SK in SKT1 is South Korea...
and thanks for the SoulKey thinggy, nice game id there.
SK Telecom. Jesus.
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On June 25 2008 11:55 ramen247 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2008 11:38 DamageControL wrote:On June 25 2008 11:29 ramen247 wrote:On June 25 2008 11:04 thunk wrote:On June 25 2008 10:52 SilverSkyLark wrote:
What does SK mean in SK Terran anyway? South Korea? Silky Kumar? Hahaha. Sorry for the noobishness. SoulKey; he was a progamer and SK terran was his style. It was popularized with Nada, who had enough APM and mechanics to pull it off correctly and with style. It has nothing to do with the SKT1 terran nobility as far as I know. doesnt it? i thought SKT1 was another way to say they were #1 at using SKterran. well its telecom but but... skt1 is definately because there name is SK Telecom well i dont think they came up with SK just out of nothing. Im pretty sure they were influenced by the presence of a terran strat called SK terran. they couldve been called FUtelecom.
Obviously the team has deeper origins than said strategy, mr. "random-numbers-in-my-name-for-a-forum" , and hence has nothing to do with it.
Really. Stop arguing.
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now i truly understand SK terran
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ha, i always thought "SK" Terran meant something like SouthKorean Terran or even SwarmKiller Terran (since that was its initial purpose)
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Every time someone creates a sk terran thread, there is the same stupid argument about what it means.
stop arguing. It's soul key.
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Thanks for the help in this thread, though I really didn't want a pointless debate over what it stood for 
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understanding sk terran? lol
you don't have to understand anything. in fact, just irridate everything bigger than a zergling.
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For the record, I was speculating on the SK in the progaming team's name, not the SK in the TvZ strategy.
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On June 26 2008 00:43 Naib wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2008 11:55 ramen247 wrote:On June 25 2008 11:38 DamageControL wrote:On June 25 2008 11:29 ramen247 wrote:On June 25 2008 11:04 thunk wrote:On June 25 2008 10:52 SilverSkyLark wrote:
What does SK mean in SK Terran anyway? South Korea? Silky Kumar? Hahaha. Sorry for the noobishness. SoulKey; he was a progamer and SK terran was his style. It was popularized with Nada, who had enough APM and mechanics to pull it off correctly and with style. It has nothing to do with the SKT1 terran nobility as far as I know. doesnt it? i thought SKT1 was another way to say they were #1 at using SKterran. well its telecom but but... skt1 is definately because there name is SK Telecom well i dont think they came up with SK just out of nothing. Im pretty sure they were influenced by the presence of a terran strat called SK terran. they couldve been called FUtelecom. Obviously the team has deeper origins than said strategy, mr. "random-numbers-in-my-name-for-a-forum" , and hence has nothing to do with it. Really. Stop arguing.
ramen247.. read it out lud and MAYBE just MAYHBE youll get it.
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EPT
