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Hi,
I'm using a lot of Reavers lately, trying out Reaver-intensive mid- and lategame in PvZ and PvT. For your run of the mill Reaver harass, the damage upgrae is, I guess, a waste of money. The question is, essentially, when is the upgrade worth it, i.e. what does it really do?
Reaver damage:
200/200, about the same build time as three reavers.
Increases damage from 100 to 125.
The only unit the damage upgrade lets you one-hit is the Dark Templar (40/80, 1 armor). Lurkers and Goliaths both start with armor on top of their 125 HP.
Zealots, Dragoons, Reavers take two hits regardless of upgrade. Archons go from 4 hits to 3. Even a single Reaver kills a Cannon in two hits, i.e. it doesn't have time to regenerate 1 point of shield. Cannons do not have armor.
Ultralisks go from 5 hits to 4. Lurkers take two hits regardless. Sunken Colonies go from 4 to 3 hits.
Siege Tanks, Goliaths, Missle Turrets take two hits regardless.
Note: Damage upgrade shaves some hits when destroying other buildings with Reavers, such as Hatcheries and Pylons.
So, for the purposes of direct damage without other supporting units, the damage upgrade also seems rather worthless. It seems that the main purpose of the damage upgrade has to be dealing more splash, particularly against clumped Zealots, Dragoons, Hydralisks and Ultralisks. I could imagine that the one-hit splash radius against Hydralisks increase with the damage upgrade, for instance.
Does anybody have any input regarding:
a) How does the damage upgrade affect the Reaver's splash damage?
b) When do you opt to upgrade the damage?
Myself, I upgrade damage pretty much whenever I use more than one Robotics for Reavers.
That is, in PvP, when seizing the expansion is difficult or when Shuttle-mobility is crucial, or when I have screwed up earlier game so that a heavy-Reaver gamble is the best way back into the game.
In PvZ, I generally use it for the fast expansion -> Corsair/Reaver, or if I'm facing a melee-Hive Zerg, i.e. Zerglings/Ultralisks(/Defilers) and don't have enough Archons or too poor ground upgrades to deal with them.
EDIT: PS: Does anybody have any information on Koreans using the upgrade? I can hardly remember seeing it, ever, but I can't really remember seeing them using Reaver-heavy strategies either.
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reavers take down buildings faster after the upgrade, that's for sure.
this can be good in cors+reaver based pvz. edit: I just read that it spares 1 hit.
I believe that the splash area is increased after the upgrade, so it can make a difference against lings in pvz lategame.
edit:
I came to the conclusion, this many spared shots after using reavers in a game for long time, can spare you many minerals. Maybe
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Well, I guess it is fair to note the upgrade often spares much more than one hit. It is actually 1 for rounding issues +1 per 400HP (rounded down), so that should be 4 hits for a Hatchery.
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pretty sure theres been a thread about this but anyway,
a cute thing to do in pvt is go fast dmg upgrade and drop his scvs cos the main splash is 63dmg (125/2 up from 100/2 = 50) so u take out scvs in one hit like u would drones or probes. this suprises some players and u can also kill their defending tanks much faster too (less hits with the goon or zlot assist.)
edit: pls do http://teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=reaver damage
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On January 03 2008 02:29 gusbear wrote:a cute thing to do in pvt is go fast dmg upgrade and drop his scvs cos the main splash is 63dmg (125/2 up from 100/2 = 50) so u take out scvs in one hit like u would drones or probes. edit: pls do http://teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=reaver damage
I thought that Reavers did full (normal) Damage vs. Everything? (Except when they "miss" on impact and do nothing...)
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On January 03 2008 02:49 aokces wrote:I thought that Reavers did full (normal) Damage vs. Everything? (Except when they "miss" on impact and do nothing...)
He is talking about the splash damage they do. Upgraded scarabs will kill way more scvs because they either do 125 damage on direct hits and 62.5 for units in the splash radius.
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thats roxs a lot if u can afford it end game in some pvp and if u have many reavers.
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On January 03 2008 02:49 aokces wrote:
I thought that Reavers did full (normal) Damage vs. Everything? (Except when they "miss" on impact and do nothing...)
scarab damage is 100% around the point of impact, 50% a little further away, and finally 25% on the extremes of the blast radius.
pls read the other threads by searching which go into more detail
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maybe more reavers --> damage upgrade rocks.
and the upgrade for max scarabs?? when??
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United States7166 Posts
On January 03 2008 02:29 gusbear wrote:pretty sure theres been a thread about this but anyway, a cute thing to do in pvt is go fast dmg upgrade and drop his scvs cos the main splash is 63dmg (125/2 up from 100/2 = 50) so u take out scvs in one hit like u would drones or probes. this suprises some players and u can also kill their defending tanks much faster too (less hits with the goon or zlot assist.) edit: pls do http://teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=reaver damage
yes the damage upgrade is so nice for scv raids, try it out sometime..you dont have to do a rush for it if you dont want to just get it eventually and watch the scv go poof 
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Getting the attack upgrade is always more noticable when it comes to the splash damage than the effects of the direct hit. Reavers vs hydras seem to become a much easier battle after the upgrade kicks in.
When I read the title I was sure this was going to be the most retarded thread ever, but it's actualy quite good :D
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On January 03 2008 02:14 Zherak wrote:
Cannons do not have armor.
Can anyone confirm this? I thought all buildings had 1 armor (and sunkens 2 armor). Am I right?
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You are wrong.
All buildings have 1 armor, except (going by memory):
Turret, Spore, Cannon: 0
Sunken: 2
Note: You may have seen a Reaver pair killing a Cannon with two Scarabs.
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it gives you stronger splash?
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That is sweet, i'm definately going to try this. Heck I've got to do something to get my pvt up to par ^_^ thanks for bringing this to my attention.
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omg I love this thread, now I know why my reav/sair sometimes seems weaker than normal even when I micro the webs great - I forget to upgrade the reaver damage+splash LOL omg...
the splash seems to make a huge difference, just like born-2-pwn said, vs hydras
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On January 03 2008 10:38 ShmotZ wrote:
it gives you stronger splash?
It gives you more damage, which gives you stronger splash.
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its one upgrade i havent made in what? 2 years?
But basically it is a strong a upgrade. instead of thinking of raw numbers, you can think of ups in percentage.
For example, that +1 in a corsair attack upgrade makes a heck of a difference, considering its 20% up, and considering the attack speed of a sair.
Now for the reaver, yes, its a 25%, but the reaver fights are usually shorter lived than a corsair fight due to its attack speed and massive initial damage. I guess the upgrade makes a bigger difference if you intend to keep using reavers as support army through a long course of the game. If youre doing a sair/reaver build, or vs terran using reaver drops while units engage, or not switching to templar tech vs protoss the upgrade will surely come handy.
Though it still takes two hits to kill a goliath, it will only take an additional dragoon shot, instead of 2. More damage the better... reaver rarely fights alone.
So yah, basically if you intend to keep using them, make them more efficient. If you intend to just make 1-2 and then switch to another tech, by all means dont waste your resources with them :p
Very straight forward lol
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EPT
