EPTCarriers or arbiters
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SiarX
131 Posts
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ThunderJunk
United States725 Posts
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Mutaller
United States1051 Posts
Carriers require a good economy because you need to pump them out and get a critical number. A single carrier is not going to do much for you. The carrier can simply attack move and do well if you are very far ahead, but to be a good carrier player there is actually quite complicated micro for them, while the arbiter is rather simple. If a map has a lot of dead space where goliaths cannot get under the carriers or even hit them, carriers will be a good move. On large dead space maps the terran will be forced to make wraiths, which makes toss ground army stronger | ||
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NotJumperer
United States1371 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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XenOsky
Chile2316 Posts
at pro level is based on maps and somewhat presonal preference. | ||
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Operations
115 Posts
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Highgamer
1448 Posts
Carriers on the other hand can be very effective - "more" effective if you want - if the situation is right or rather: if you create the right situation for them, which generally means that they have to come as a surprise (early on 2 bases or in the lategame with some hidden stargates). Terran doesn't have to be in the dark until the last minute, but you need a window of time to produce enough carriers before Terran realizes what's going on and can counter with enough goliaths/turrets. As was pointed out above, certain map-features make carriers much more effective, for example a lot of terrain that is impassable for ground-units. From my experience, carriers might get you some easy wins on lower ranks and might seem "generally effective" there, but they get harder to use once the Terrans get decent at the core-skills (macro/control/scouting+reacting). The higher the rank, the better you have to be at carrier micro and decision-making on where to send them or else bulding them might backfire. | ||
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iopq
United States1053 Posts
Carriers, however, will be cost-effective as long as you keep upgrading them. So in the long term there's no real counter to carriers as long as Terran doesn't surprise you with cloaked wraiths or similar. I'm just surprised why nobody makes a switch to carriers after arbiter, you already have one stargate and cloaked carriers are pretty good if you can afford them (late late game) | ||
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namkraft
527 Posts
On February 25 2023 07:43 outscar wrote: If scanner doesn't see your fleet beacon then carriers usually win but if you get immediately scouted terran can finish you off before getting critical amount or make million goliaths and believe me, 3/3 ranged golis are nightmare to deal with, you need Stork's control to win vs. it. Storkuuuu plays today!! let see them some dino-carriers ! | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3444 Posts
On March 05 2023 14:43 iopq wrote: Arbiters haven't proven to be cost-effective, once the Terran defends a lot of bases with mines and turrets recall threat is much less relevant, and stasis can be prevented with EMP Carriers, however, will be cost-effective as long as you keep upgrading them. So in the long term there's no real counter to carriers as long as Terran doesn't surprise you with cloaked wraiths or similar. I'm just surprised why nobody makes a switch to carriers after arbiter, you already have one stargate and cloaked carriers are pretty good if you can afford them (late late game) I think the main downside is the (massive) upgrade disadvantage you start with. 0-0 air vs 2-1 or 3-2 mech | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28743 Posts
On March 09 2023 05:14 WGT-Baal wrote: I think the main downside is the (massive) upgrade disadvantage you start with. 0-0 air vs 2-1 or 3-2 mech Pretty inexpensive to go for a +1 air attack before you make the switch, tbh, so you'll have +2 by the time your first carriers are ready to fight. If you're considering doing a carrier switch you should do this, anyway. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
On March 12 2023 15:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: Pretty inexpensive to go for a +1 air attack before you make the switch, tbh, so you'll have +2 by the time your first carriers are ready to fight. If you're considering doing a carrier switch you should do this, anyway. A huge tell if core is still spinning after range though. Sure you could buy it anyway as its cheap but still. | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3444 Posts
On March 12 2023 15:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: Pretty inexpensive to go for a +1 air attack before you make the switch, tbh, so you'll have +2 by the time your first carriers are ready to fight. If you're considering doing a carrier switch you should do this, anyway. I had not considered it actually lol, I usually go into arbs thehn stay on it for a while then consider the switch but by then several minutes have passed. It can also trick the T into making anti-carrier moves even though I dont have any and wont have for a while | ||
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G5
United States2921 Posts
Edit: And yeah, if you think you're gonna go carriers at any point in the game, you must start air upgrades early otherwise they get horribly out-scaled by mech upgrades and it takes forever to kill anything. | ||
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weiliem
2071 Posts
On February 24 2023 08:21 ThunderJunk wrote: Corsairs. Disruption web is great, and they make little disk pew pews when they shoot science vessels, moving them backwards a little bit. I really laughed out reading the last part haha | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On March 21 2023 05:09 ninazerg wrote: Generally speaking, you want to use your dark archon to mind-control an SCV, and then use that SCV to build up to battlecruisers. The advantage to building battlecruisers over regular Protoss air units is that the Yamato Cannon ability has a very long range, and will destroy the enemy science vessel before it can hit your army with EMP. Remember, most of your units are 40% shields in terms of health, and getting EMP'd can really hurt your chances of winning an engagement with the Terran army! Or you could use the dark archon to feedback the science vessel and skip the steps in between :D | ||
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TheGruntMaster6000
11 Posts
Terran: Missile Turrets can be mind controlled and spawn broodling works on them (their art does show a guy controling them afterall). (Nerf) Scv health decreased to 40. (Nerf) Marines go into a crash after their stim wears off causing them to attack and move slowly for the crash duration. Stim can kill your marines if they are low enough on health. (Nerf) Firbats deal normal damage. (Buff) Ghosts get stim pack. They get infinite nuking rage. (Buff) Medics when healing units imbolalize them so they cannot move while being healed. (Nerf) Vultures cost 75 gas instead of 75 minerals. (Nerf) Spidermines (I am considering them a unit because I have OCD about each race not having an equal number of units) get triggered and attack allied plus player units alongside of enemy units. (Nerf) Seige Tanks have 6 minimum range in seigemode. In tank mode, they deal concussive damage. (Nerf) Goliaths deal explosive damage to ground units. Their air attack consists of four 5 damage missiles (+1 to each missile for each ship attack upgrade) rather than two 10 damage missiles. (Nerf) Wraiths cannot move while stealthed. (Nerf) Dropships have light armor instead of heavy. (Buff) Science Vessals Irradiate ability has a chance to mutate target zerglings, hydralisks, or ultralisks into becoming their campaign super unit counter parts (devouring ones, hunter killers, and Tarrasque). Defensive matrix 150 hitpoints of protection instead of 250. Science vessals can only detect invisible owned units. (Nerf) Valkyries can attack land with the same attack as they do with air. (Buff) Battle Cruisers yomato cannon has infinite range. Attack range increased to 12. (Buff) Zerg: Spore Colonies can no longer detect (Nerf) Drone health decreased to 30. (Nerf) Zerglings no longer hatch two at a time. You only get the one. (Nerf) Hydralisk now targeted as a large type unit. (Nerf) Broodlings spawn in groups of 10 now from the spawn broodlings ability. They can also burrow. (Buff) Infested Terrans no longer die when dealing there AoE damage. It is simply their attack. Recycle 2 seconds. (Buff) Lurkers no longer deal their line damage, just a single 20 damage shot. (Nerf) Defilers can only use consume on other defilers. Defilers also now get targeted as a large type unit. Plague no longer reveals stealthed units. (Nerf) Ultralisks deal concussive damage. (Nerf) Mutalisk's bouncy ball effect can now hit player owned units randomly. (Nerf) Scourge only hatch one at a time instead of pairs. (Nerf) Overlords no longer detect (Nerf) Queens no longer require the command center to be damaged before it can infest it. Spawn broodlings creats 10 broodlings. Ensnare now clogs the weapons of units that fire projectiles, meaning they cannot fire when ensnared. (Buff) Devours acid spores now act as orb of corruption from war3 as well as it does in broodwar. This means that for however many acid spores are on the enemy unit, it decreases its armor value (automatically 0 armor if it cannot be decreased any lower). The splash from acid spires also hits ground units (the devour can still only target air units though). Its attack cooldown is also decreased to 2 second. (Buff) Gaurdians now have the same attack speed as zerglings with adrenal glands. (Buff) Protoss: Cannons require that the probe transform into them to construct them, resulting in a loss of the prope. (Nerf) Probes obtain the same pathing AI and collision as dragoons. Health decreased to 10. (Nerf) Zealots damage is dealt between 4 attacks (4x4) rather than 2 (8x2). (Nerf) Dragoons health and shield changed to be 20 health and 160 shields. Damage made consussive. (Nerf) High Templars Spionic stomwave ability does not damage units that are reverse grounded, meaning units which are touching the ground won't take damage. Only hovering units (such as archons) and air units take damage from it. Hallucination has a 10% chance to not work. (Nerf) Dark Templar speed decreased to the same as non-upgraded overlord speed. They appear invisible to the player as well as the enemy unless their next to your detectors. (Nerf) Dark Archons mind control does not result in the loss of all the dark archon's sheilds after casting. Feedback also empties all of the sheilds on a unit and deals its respective damage. Maelstorm has increase of 4 cast range. (Buff) Archons get + 1 ground armor, light armor type, and plus 1 health regen. Reavers scarabs cost 15 gas instead of 15 minerals. Their AoE damage also hits allied and player units. (Nerf) Scouts ground damage decreased by 2. Their air attack consists of four missiles of 7 damage instead of two with 14 damage. (Nerf) Corsair attack is mellee. (Nerf) Observers can only detect burrowed units with the exception of broodlings and infested terrans. Can also detect observers. (Nerf) Shuttles speed upgrade is now in the fleat beacon. Can only carry one unit at a time. (Nerf) Carrier intercepters cannot leave or enter back into the carrier untill the carrier's sheilds are at 0 as the sheilds will deflect them. Can hold 10 intercepters instead of 8. (Overall Nerf) Arbiters stealth area of effect also cloaks enemy units along side of allied and player units when they enter its area of effect. Damage type changed to consussive. Recall can now work on buildings but cannot recall units. (Nerf) These are my ideas. I would love to hear your thoughts on them and see what you all think. Have a good weekend! | ||
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TheGruntMaster6000
11 Posts
I know Artosis has talked about balance for this game so I would love to hear his thoughts on these proposed changes. Thanks, | ||
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KrillinFromwales
68 Posts
Arbiters are definitely the easiest of the 3 options to use. You've only gotta handle a recall or stasis every now and then. You open up some mine drag options and you've got cloak which can be a pain to Terran. Carriers and Arbiters are nice because you can cloak the carriers and you've got the advantages of Arbiters. On the other hand Carrier rush can be good but it's hard to execute at lower levels. You'll get caught a lot of the time and die to the 2-base Terran. Carriers require some complicated micro to execute well and you'll need decent APM to make them effective. So they're probably better for mid-level players and beyond. The "modern style" with high templars is nice but if you can't mix in some wild cards like Carriers and Arbiters it definitely requires some very narrow windows to pull off. I think the modern style is the most difficult because you've gotta be good at using shuttles and storm. Storm is tough against Terran because HTs die rapidly and Terran units are pretty healthy. As a rule I'd say to learn the Arbiter style first because it compliments your modern style and can segue into Carriers and learn Carriers second because they're tough and require enough control not to get abused. Also Arbiter and modern style are more robust to Terran timings which might be your biggest concern. + Show Spoiler + On March 28 2023 06:43 TheGruntMaster6000 wrote: Hello everyone, my forum topic on balance got deleted :/ I will try to get this conversation going again. I feal like this game has balance issues so i would like to give my input on some changes that could be implented if Blizzard were to consider updating this game with new unit stats. These would all mostly be nerfs for units that are used too much and buffs for units that rarely see play. Here we go! Terran: Missile Turrets can be mind controlled and spawn broodling works on them (their art does show a guy controling them afterall). (Nerf) Scv health decreased to 40. (Nerf) Marines go into a crash after their stim wears off causing them to attack and move slowly for the crash duration. Stim can kill your marines if they are low enough on health. (Nerf) Firbats deal normal damage. (Buff) Ghosts get stim pack. They get infinite nuking rage. (Buff) Medics when healing units imbolalize them so they cannot move while being healed. (Nerf) Vultures cost 75 gas instead of 75 minerals. (Nerf) Spidermines (I am considering them a unit because I have OCD about each race not having an equal number of units) get triggered and attack allied plus player units alongside of enemy units. (Nerf) Seige Tanks have 6 minimum range in seigemode. In tank mode, they deal concussive damage. (Nerf) Goliaths deal explosive damage to ground units. Their air attack consists of four 5 damage missiles (+1 to each missile for each ship attack upgrade) rather than two 10 damage missiles. (Nerf) Wraiths cannot move while stealthed. (Nerf) Dropships have light armor instead of heavy. (Buff) Science Vessals Irradiate ability has a chance to mutate target zerglings, hydralisks, or ultralisks into becoming their campaign super unit counter parts (devouring ones, hunter killers, and Tarrasque). Defensive matrix 150 hitpoints of protection instead of 250. Science vessals can only detect invisible owned units. (Nerf) Valkyries can attack land with the same attack as they do with air. (Buff) Battle Cruisers yomato cannon has infinite range. Attack range increased to 12. (Buff) Zerg: Spore Colonies can no longer detect (Nerf) Drone health decreased to 30. (Nerf) Zerglings no longer hatch two at a time. You only get the one. (Nerf) Hydralisk now targeted as a large type unit. (Nerf) Broodlings spawn in groups of 10 now from the spawn broodlings ability. They can also burrow. (Buff) Infested Terrans no longer die when dealing there AoE damage. It is simply their attack. Recycle 2 seconds. (Buff) Lurkers no longer deal their line damage, just a single 20 damage shot. (Nerf) Defilers can only use consume on other defilers. Defilers also now get targeted as a large type unit. Plague no longer reveals stealthed units. (Nerf) Ultralisks deal concussive damage. (Nerf) Mutalisk's bouncy ball effect can now hit player owned units randomly. (Nerf) Scourge only hatch one at a time instead of pairs. (Nerf) Overlords no longer detect (Nerf) Queens no longer require the command center to be damaged before it can infest it. Spawn broodlings creats 10 broodlings. Ensnare now clogs the weapons of units that fire projectiles, meaning they cannot fire when ensnared. (Buff) Devours acid spores now act as orb of corruption from war3 as well as it does in broodwar. This means that for however many acid spores are on the enemy unit, it decreases its armor value (automatically 0 armor if it cannot be decreased any lower). The splash from acid spires also hits ground units (the devour can still only target air units though). Its attack cooldown is also decreased to 2 second. (Buff) Gaurdians now have the same attack speed as zerglings with adrenal glands. (Buff) Protoss: Cannons require that the probe transform into them to construct them, resulting in a loss of the prope. (Nerf) Probes obtain the same pathing AI and collision as dragoons. Health decreased to 10. (Nerf) Zealots damage is dealt between 4 attacks (4x4) rather than 2 (8x2). (Nerf) Dragoons health and shield changed to be 20 health and 160 shields. Damage made consussive. (Nerf) High Templars Spionic stomwave ability does not damage units that are reverse grounded, meaning units which are touching the ground won't take damage. Only hovering units (such as archons) and air units take damage from it. Hallucination has a 10% chance to not work. (Nerf) Dark Templar speed decreased to the same as non-upgraded overlord speed. They appear invisible to the player as well as the enemy unless their next to your detectors. (Nerf) Dark Archons mind control does not result in the loss of all the dark archon's sheilds after casting. Feedback also empties all of the sheilds on a unit and deals its respective damage. Maelstorm has increase of 4 cast range. (Buff) Archons get + 1 ground armor, light armor type, and plus 1 health regen. Reavers scarabs cost 15 gas instead of 15 minerals. Their AoE damage also hits allied and player units. (Nerf) Scouts ground damage decreased by 2. Their air attack consists of four missiles of 7 damage instead of two with 14 damage. (Nerf) Corsair attack is mellee. (Nerf) Observers can only detect burrowed units with the exception of broodlings and infested terrans. Can also detect observers. (Nerf) Shuttles speed upgrade is now in the fleat beacon. Can only carry one unit at a time. (Nerf) Carrier intercepters cannot leave or enter back into the carrier untill the carrier's sheilds are at 0 as the sheilds will deflect them. Can hold 10 intercepters instead of 8. (Overall Nerf) Arbiters stealth area of effect also cloaks enemy units along side of allied and player units when they enter its area of effect. Damage type changed to consussive. Recall can now work on buildings but cannot recall units. (Nerf) These are my ideas. I would love to hear your thoughts on them and see what you all think. Have a good weekend! I think there might be a mistake because now Zerg can n | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28743 Posts
but I mean that whole list is just the rambling nonsense of a madman. Literally no suggestion makes any sense. + Show Spoiler + I just asked ChatAI if it had any suggestions, and while I'll grade the response an E for Effort, it was still a lot better than what that other guy posted. Q: Can you give some suggestions for a balance patch for Starcraft: Brood war? Certainly, here are a few suggestions for a balance patch for Starcraft: Brood War: Buff Terran's late-game army: Terran's late-game army, specifically their air units, can struggle to compete with the other two races. To address this, we could increase the damage output of Terran air units, decrease their build time, or decrease their cost. Nerf Zerg's Mutalisk harass: Mutalisks are a popular unit for Zerg players to use in harassment tactics, as they are fast and have high damage output. To balance this, we could decrease their speed, damage, or health. Buff Protoss's early-game: Protoss players can struggle in the early game against Terran and Zerg opponents. We could address this by decreasing the build time or cost of early-game Protoss units like Zealots or Dragoons. Increase the viability of Terran and Protoss spellcasters: Currently, spellcasters like the High Templar and Ghost are not used as frequently as other units. We could increase their damage output or decrease their energy cost to make them more attractive options for players. Address map imbalances: Some maps in Brood War can favor certain races over others. We could adjust the layout or resources on these maps to make them more balanced for all races. It's important to note that any balance changes should be tested extensively to ensure that they do not have unintended consequences and do not create new imbalances. Balancing a game like Starcraft: Brood War is a delicate process, and it's important to take a measured approach to avoid disrupting the game's delicate balance. Q: High templars are used really frequently. That suggestion makes no sense. Protoss is also strong in the early game. Can you however give some suggestions on how to buff the scout? You're right, High Templars are actually used frequently in competitive play. My apologies for the mistake. Regarding your question about buffing the Scout unit in Starcraft: Brood War, here are a few suggestions: Increase the Scout's speed: The Scout is a relatively slow unit, which makes it difficult to use for hit-and-run tactics or scouting enemy bases. By increasing its speed, it would become a more effective scout and a better choice for harassing enemy workers. Increase the Scout's damage: Currently, the Scout's damage output is not very high, making it less effective against heavily-armored units. By increasing its damage output, it could become a more viable option for taking down high-priority targets like siege tanks or ultralisks. Decrease the Scout's cost: The Scout is currently an expensive unit that is rarely used due to its cost. By decreasing its cost, it would become a more attractive option for players who want to incorporate air units into their army composition. Increase the Scout's range: The Scout's range is currently shorter than that of other air units like the Corsair or Valkyrie. By increasing its range, it would become a more effective counter to other air units and would be better suited for taking out enemy air defenses. It's important to note that any changes to the Scout should be made with caution, as even small adjustments to a unit's stats can have a significant impact on its viability and the overall balance of the game. Any proposed changes to the Scout should be thoroughly tested to ensure that they do not create new imbalances or unintended consequences. | ||
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BulgarianToss
Bulgaria490 Posts
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Postaljester_
33 Posts
I don’t spend much time thinking about hypothetical patches though | ||
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Postaljester_
33 Posts
Carriers are a powerful option to have, but they cannot really be the default for meta and map reasons imo. | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4139 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19307 Posts
https://tl.net/forum/bw-strategy/35573-carrier-vs-arbiter-in-lategame-pvt | ||
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TheGruntMaster6000
11 Posts
Why do you think that your AI responses are better? What's so bad about my suggestions? | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28743 Posts
The highlights are that observers stop detecting dark templars and dts are invisible to the controlling player unless next to a detector, meaning you can't control them unless they are next to your own cannons and that queens can now infest ccs without them being damaged, coupled with infested terrans no longer dying when they go boom. Nukes with infinite range and irradiate sometimes creating torrasques is also pretty amazing. But not a single suggestion actually makes any sense. | ||
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TheGruntMaster6000
11 Posts
TvZ- Firebat rushes and main army composition would be popular. Normal damage would make them effective against hydras and zerglings. Lukers would not stop them as they would have no line damage. And then tech to nukes to kill Zerg before ultras, guardians, or defilers drop. Mutas might still be an issue against firebat armies but could only do so much before their health is low due to their own attack. Firebats would also be one of the few units immune to dark swarm and ensnare. Valkyries could also be powerful but hard countered by ensnare from queens. TvP- Terran techs to tanks and uses them in tank mode (too much gas price with vultures). The majority of dragoon health is sheilds now so concussive damage would still be effective against them. As well, zealot damage would be reduced by 4 per armor, making tanks last longer against them. Dark Archons would be too expensive to use mind control with on tanks. Nukes would likely come next to kill toss economy. ZvT- Zerg would fast tech to queens with sunken colonies as defense. A couple of queens would quickly rush the terrans command center and infest to kill their economy. Then it would begin to build infested terrans as they would now be doing 250dps in AoE. The infested would kill buildings and ruin firebat armies. Ensnare would be handy against tank armies and valkyries. Zerg would continue with aggressive infested terrans until they teched to gaurdians and devours to win. ZvP- Hydralisk army would rule. With armor upgrades, zealots would be alot less effective against them. They would be immune to storms and dragoons would drop like flies with their damage being useless against hydras. Zerg might be forced to build queens at the start of the game to stop dark Templar from winning the game as ensnare would be the only detection available. Zerg would likely opt devours over scourge for countering reaver drops as scourge would only pair one at a time. Zerg might also consider gaurdians to simply end the game as scouts would loose to their armor. Corsairs are melee, and carriers would still have hydra problems. PvT- Protoss would have a whopping three options. Proxy gate for zealots, cannon rush, and reaver drop. Zealot and dragoon wouldn't cut it against tanks. A reaver would be hard for terran to fight despite the nerfs. Even though toss can only send one per shuttle, Terran can't use minds to stop then as mines would trigger on their own units. Seige Tank concussive damage in tank mode would do nothing to them and seige mode tanks would have too much minimum range. The reaver would have to watch for its own AoE though and scvs could easily bomb rush it. Still though, the economy would take a hit. Otherwise, protoss would need to rush to try and stop terrans from getting nukes which they would be able to stop. PvZ- Protoss would fast tech to dark templar right away to try and kill zerg before they get a shit ton of hydra. Zerg would be forced to make queens. Then protoss would get dark archons for their range. Protosd would try to get critical mass of archons for fighting army with a couple zealots. If zerg started to go air, then their only solution would be the arbiter as scourge would not be as numerous to stop them. Arbiters could stealth units to give auto win and stasis trap gaurdians. Protoss would also have an easier time scouting at the beginning as zerglings would be less numerous. Also, to get back on topic I think arbiter is more useful overall in TvP then carrier (although they are both useful). | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2316 Posts
On April 08 2023 02:24 BisuDagger wrote: Here's what we said in 2006! https://tl.net/forum/bw-strategy/35573-carrier-vs-arbiter-in-lategame-pvt best one in that thread + Show Spoiler + On January 07 2006 21:02 Xeroth wrote: Feeling/instinct will guide you best. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
On March 28 2023 06:43 TheGruntMaster6000 wrote: Hello everyone, my forum topic on balance got deleted :/ I will try to get this conversation going again. I feal like this game has balance issues so i would like to give my input on some changes that could be implented if Blizzard were to consider updating this game with new unit stats. These would all mostly be nerfs for units that are used too much and buffs for units that rarely see play. Here we go! Terran: Missile Turrets can be mind controlled and spawn broodling works on them (their art does show a guy controling them afterall). (Nerf) Scv health decreased to 40. (Nerf) Marines go into a crash after their stim wears off causing them to attack and move slowly for the crash duration. Stim can kill your marines if they are low enough on health. (Nerf) Firbats deal normal damage. (Buff) Ghosts get stim pack. They get infinite nuking rage. (Buff) Medics when healing units imbolalize them so they cannot move while being healed. (Nerf) Vultures cost 75 gas instead of 75 minerals. (Nerf) Spidermines (I am considering them a unit because I have OCD about each race not having an equal number of units) get triggered and attack allied plus player units alongside of enemy units. (Nerf) Seige Tanks have 6 minimum range in seigemode. In tank mode, they deal concussive damage. (Nerf) Goliaths deal explosive damage to ground units. Their air attack consists of four 5 damage missiles (+1 to each missile for each ship attack upgrade) rather than two 10 damage missiles. (Nerf) Wraiths cannot move while stealthed. (Nerf) Dropships have light armor instead of heavy. (Buff) Science Vessals Irradiate ability has a chance to mutate target zerglings, hydralisks, or ultralisks into becoming their campaign super unit counter parts (devouring ones, hunter killers, and Tarrasque). Defensive matrix 150 hitpoints of protection instead of 250. Science vessals can only detect invisible owned units. (Nerf) Valkyries can attack land with the same attack as they do with air. (Buff) Battle Cruisers yomato cannon has infinite range. Attack range increased to 12. (Buff) Zerg: Spore Colonies can no longer detect (Nerf) Drone health decreased to 30. (Nerf) Zerglings no longer hatch two at a time. You only get the one. (Nerf) Hydralisk now targeted as a large type unit. (Nerf) Broodlings spawn in groups of 10 now from the spawn broodlings ability. They can also burrow. (Buff) Infested Terrans no longer die when dealing there AoE damage. It is simply their attack. Recycle 2 seconds. (Buff) Lurkers no longer deal their line damage, just a single 20 damage shot. (Nerf) Defilers can only use consume on other defilers. Defilers also now get targeted as a large type unit. Plague no longer reveals stealthed units. (Nerf) Ultralisks deal concussive damage. (Nerf) Mutalisk's bouncy ball effect can now hit player owned units randomly. (Nerf) Scourge only hatch one at a time instead of pairs. (Nerf) Overlords no longer detect (Nerf) Queens no longer require the command center to be damaged before it can infest it. Spawn broodlings creats 10 broodlings. Ensnare now clogs the weapons of units that fire projectiles, meaning they cannot fire when ensnared. (Buff) Devours acid spores now act as orb of corruption from war3 as well as it does in broodwar. This means that for however many acid spores are on the enemy unit, it decreases its armor value (automatically 0 armor if it cannot be decreased any lower). The splash from acid spires also hits ground units (the devour can still only target air units though). Its attack cooldown is also decreased to 2 second. (Buff) Gaurdians now have the same attack speed as zerglings with adrenal glands. (Buff) Protoss: Cannons require that the probe transform into them to construct them, resulting in a loss of the prope. (Nerf) Probes obtain the same pathing AI and collision as dragoons. Health decreased to 10. (Nerf) Zealots damage is dealt between 4 attacks (4x4) rather than 2 (8x2). (Nerf) Dragoons health and shield changed to be 20 health and 160 shields. Damage made consussive. (Nerf) High Templars Spionic stomwave ability does not damage units that are reverse grounded, meaning units which are touching the ground won't take damage. Only hovering units (such as archons) and air units take damage from it. Hallucination has a 10% chance to not work. (Nerf) Dark Templar speed decreased to the same as non-upgraded overlord speed. They appear invisible to the player as well as the enemy unless their next to your detectors. (Nerf) Dark Archons mind control does not result in the loss of all the dark archon's sheilds after casting. Feedback also empties all of the sheilds on a unit and deals its respective damage. Maelstorm has increase of 4 cast range. (Buff) Archons get + 1 ground armor, light armor type, and plus 1 health regen. Reavers scarabs cost 15 gas instead of 15 minerals. Their AoE damage also hits allied and player units. (Nerf) Scouts ground damage decreased by 2. Their air attack consists of four missiles of 7 damage instead of two with 14 damage. (Nerf) Corsair attack is mellee. (Nerf) Observers can only detect burrowed units with the exception of broodlings and infested terrans. Can also detect observers. (Nerf) Shuttles speed upgrade is now in the fleat beacon. Can only carry one unit at a time. (Nerf) Carrier intercepters cannot leave or enter back into the carrier untill the carrier's sheilds are at 0 as the sheilds will deflect them. Can hold 10 intercepters instead of 8. (Overall Nerf) Arbiters stealth area of effect also cloaks enemy units along side of allied and player units when they enter its area of effect. Damage type changed to consussive. Recall can now work on buildings but cannot recall units. (Nerf) These are my ideas. I would love to hear your thoughts on them and see what you all think. Have a good weekend! Can you post a replay of you playing this game. Kthx! | ||
KwarK
United States43598 Posts
On April 19 2023 21:24 Liquid`Drone wrote: It's a pretty hilarious list but I don't think you are serious about it sk no point explaining. The highlights are that observers stop detecting dark templars and dts are invisible to the controlling player unless next to a detector, meaning you can't control them unless they are next to your own cannons and that queens can now infest ccs without them being damaged, coupled with infested terrans no longer dying when they go boom. Nukes with infinite range and irradiate sometimes creating torrasques is also pretty amazing. But not a single suggestion actually makes any sense. I was also a little confused by the combination of dts being literally invisible to the player who made them unless he had detection and the detection ability being removed from Protoss players. It seemed an interesting combo. | ||
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TheGruntMaster6000
11 Posts
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TheGruntMaster6000
11 Posts
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Piste
6183 Posts
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On March 28 2023 06:43 TheGruntMaster6000 wrote: Hello everyone, my forum topic on balance got deleted :/ I will try to get this conversation going again. I feal like this game has balance issues so i would like to give my input on some changes that could be implented if Blizzard were to consider updating this game with new unit stats. These would all mostly be nerfs for units that are used too much and buffs for units that rarely see play. Here we go! Terran: Missile Turrets can be mind controlled and spawn broodling works on them (their art does show a guy controling them afterall). (Nerf) Scv health decreased to 40. (Nerf) Marines go into a crash after their stim wears off causing them to attack and move slowly for the crash duration. Stim can kill your marines if they are low enough on health. (Nerf) Firbats deal normal damage. (Buff) Ghosts get stim pack. They get infinite nuking rage. (Buff) Medics when healing units imbolalize them so they cannot move while being healed. (Nerf) Vultures cost 75 gas instead of 75 minerals. (Nerf) Spidermines (I am considering them a unit because I have OCD about each race not having an equal number of units) get triggered and attack allied plus player units alongside of enemy units. (Nerf) Seige Tanks have 6 minimum range in seigemode. In tank mode, they deal concussive damage. (Nerf) Goliaths deal explosive damage to ground units. Their air attack consists of four 5 damage missiles (+1 to each missile for each ship attack upgrade) rather than two 10 damage missiles. (Nerf) Wraiths cannot move while stealthed. (Nerf) Dropships have light armor instead of heavy. (Buff) Science Vessals Irradiate ability has a chance to mutate target zerglings, hydralisks, or ultralisks into becoming their campaign super unit counter parts (devouring ones, hunter killers, and Tarrasque). Defensive matrix 150 hitpoints of protection instead of 250. Science vessals can only detect invisible owned units. (Nerf) Valkyries can attack land with the same attack as they do with air. (Buff) Battle Cruisers yomato cannon has infinite range. Attack range increased to 12. (Buff) Zerg: Spore Colonies can no longer detect (Nerf) Drone health decreased to 30. (Nerf) Zerglings no longer hatch two at a time. You only get the one. (Nerf) Hydralisk now targeted as a large type unit. (Nerf) Broodlings spawn in groups of 10 now from the spawn broodlings ability. They can also burrow. (Buff) Infested Terrans no longer die when dealing there AoE damage. It is simply their attack. Recycle 2 seconds. (Buff) Lurkers no longer deal their line damage, just a single 20 damage shot. (Nerf) Defilers can only use consume on other defilers. Defilers also now get targeted as a large type unit. Plague no longer reveals stealthed units. (Nerf) Ultralisks deal concussive damage. (Nerf) Mutalisk's bouncy ball effect can now hit player owned units randomly. (Nerf) Scourge only hatch one at a time instead of pairs. (Nerf) Overlords no longer detect (Nerf) Queens no longer require the command center to be damaged before it can infest it. Spawn broodlings creats 10 broodlings. Ensnare now clogs the weapons of units that fire projectiles, meaning they cannot fire when ensnared. (Buff) Devours acid spores now act as orb of corruption from war3 as well as it does in broodwar. This means that for however many acid spores are on the enemy unit, it decreases its armor value (automatically 0 armor if it cannot be decreased any lower). The splash from acid spires also hits ground units (the devour can still only target air units though). Its attack cooldown is also decreased to 2 second. (Buff) Gaurdians now have the same attack speed as zerglings with adrenal glands. (Buff) Protoss: Cannons require that the probe transform into them to construct them, resulting in a loss of the prope. (Nerf) Probes obtain the same pathing AI and collision as dragoons. Health decreased to 10. (Nerf) Zealots damage is dealt between 4 attacks (4x4) rather than 2 (8x2). (Nerf) Dragoons health and shield changed to be 20 health and 160 shields. Damage made consussive. (Nerf) High Templars Spionic stomwave ability does not damage units that are reverse grounded, meaning units which are touching the ground won't take damage. Only hovering units (such as archons) and air units take damage from it. Hallucination has a 10% chance to not work. (Nerf) Dark Templar speed decreased to the same as non-upgraded overlord speed. They appear invisible to the player as well as the enemy unless their next to your detectors. (Nerf) Dark Archons mind control does not result in the loss of all the dark archon's sheilds after casting. Feedback also empties all of the sheilds on a unit and deals its respective damage. Maelstorm has increase of 4 cast range. (Buff) Archons get + 1 ground armor, light armor type, and plus 1 health regen. Reavers scarabs cost 15 gas instead of 15 minerals. Their AoE damage also hits allied and player units. (Nerf) Scouts ground damage decreased by 2. Their air attack consists of four missiles of 7 damage instead of two with 14 damage. (Nerf) Corsair attack is mellee. (Nerf) Observers can only detect burrowed units with the exception of broodlings and infested terrans. Can also detect observers. (Nerf) Shuttles speed upgrade is now in the fleat beacon. Can only carry one unit at a time. (Nerf) Carrier intercepters cannot leave or enter back into the carrier untill the carrier's sheilds are at 0 as the sheilds will deflect them. Can hold 10 intercepters instead of 8. (Overall Nerf) Arbiters stealth area of effect also cloaks enemy units along side of allied and player units when they enter its area of effect. Damage type changed to consussive. Recall can now work on buildings but cannot recall units. (Nerf) These are my ideas. I would love to hear your thoughts on them and see what you all think. Have a good weekend! Lol. I hope no one responds to this in earnest. It's a good parody though because a lot of serious suggestions are actually this bad. | ||
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