EPTCarriers or arbiters
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SiarX
131 Posts
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ThunderJunk
United States725 Posts
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Mutaller
United States1051 Posts
Carriers require a good economy because you need to pump them out and get a critical number. A single carrier is not going to do much for you. The carrier can simply attack move and do well if you are very far ahead, but to be a good carrier player there is actually quite complicated micro for them, while the arbiter is rather simple. If a map has a lot of dead space where goliaths cannot get under the carriers or even hit them, carriers will be a good move. On large dead space maps the terran will be forced to make wraiths, which makes toss ground army stronger | ||
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NotJumperer
United States1371 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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XenOsky
Chile2316 Posts
at pro level is based on maps and somewhat presonal preference. | ||
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Operations
115 Posts
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Highgamer
1448 Posts
Carriers on the other hand can be very effective - "more" effective if you want - if the situation is right or rather: if you create the right situation for them, which generally means that they have to come as a surprise (early on 2 bases or in the lategame with some hidden stargates). Terran doesn't have to be in the dark until the last minute, but you need a window of time to produce enough carriers before Terran realizes what's going on and can counter with enough goliaths/turrets. As was pointed out above, certain map-features make carriers much more effective, for example a lot of terrain that is impassable for ground-units. From my experience, carriers might get you some easy wins on lower ranks and might seem "generally effective" there, but they get harder to use once the Terrans get decent at the core-skills (macro/control/scouting+reacting). The higher the rank, the better you have to be at carrier micro and decision-making on where to send them or else bulding them might backfire. | ||
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iopq
United States1053 Posts
Carriers, however, will be cost-effective as long as you keep upgrading them. So in the long term there's no real counter to carriers as long as Terran doesn't surprise you with cloaked wraiths or similar. I'm just surprised why nobody makes a switch to carriers after arbiter, you already have one stargate and cloaked carriers are pretty good if you can afford them (late late game) | ||
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namkraft
527 Posts
On February 25 2023 07:43 outscar wrote: If scanner doesn't see your fleet beacon then carriers usually win but if you get immediately scouted terran can finish you off before getting critical amount or make million goliaths and believe me, 3/3 ranged golis are nightmare to deal with, you need Stork's control to win vs. it. Storkuuuu plays today!! let see them some dino-carriers ! | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3444 Posts
On March 05 2023 14:43 iopq wrote: Arbiters haven't proven to be cost-effective, once the Terran defends a lot of bases with mines and turrets recall threat is much less relevant, and stasis can be prevented with EMP Carriers, however, will be cost-effective as long as you keep upgrading them. So in the long term there's no real counter to carriers as long as Terran doesn't surprise you with cloaked wraiths or similar. I'm just surprised why nobody makes a switch to carriers after arbiter, you already have one stargate and cloaked carriers are pretty good if you can afford them (late late game) I think the main downside is the (massive) upgrade disadvantage you start with. 0-0 air vs 2-1 or 3-2 mech | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28743 Posts
On March 09 2023 05:14 WGT-Baal wrote: I think the main downside is the (massive) upgrade disadvantage you start with. 0-0 air vs 2-1 or 3-2 mech Pretty inexpensive to go for a +1 air attack before you make the switch, tbh, so you'll have +2 by the time your first carriers are ready to fight. If you're considering doing a carrier switch you should do this, anyway. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
On March 12 2023 15:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: Pretty inexpensive to go for a +1 air attack before you make the switch, tbh, so you'll have +2 by the time your first carriers are ready to fight. If you're considering doing a carrier switch you should do this, anyway. A huge tell if core is still spinning after range though. Sure you could buy it anyway as its cheap but still. | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3444 Posts
On March 12 2023 15:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: Pretty inexpensive to go for a +1 air attack before you make the switch, tbh, so you'll have +2 by the time your first carriers are ready to fight. If you're considering doing a carrier switch you should do this, anyway. I had not considered it actually lol, I usually go into arbs thehn stay on it for a while then consider the switch but by then several minutes have passed. It can also trick the T into making anti-carrier moves even though I dont have any and wont have for a while | ||
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G5
United States2921 Posts
Edit: And yeah, if you think you're gonna go carriers at any point in the game, you must start air upgrades early otherwise they get horribly out-scaled by mech upgrades and it takes forever to kill anything. | ||
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weiliem
2071 Posts
On February 24 2023 08:21 ThunderJunk wrote: Corsairs. Disruption web is great, and they make little disk pew pews when they shoot science vessels, moving them backwards a little bit. I really laughed out reading the last part haha | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On March 21 2023 05:09 ninazerg wrote: Generally speaking, you want to use your dark archon to mind-control an SCV, and then use that SCV to build up to battlecruisers. The advantage to building battlecruisers over regular Protoss air units is that the Yamato Cannon ability has a very long range, and will destroy the enemy science vessel before it can hit your army with EMP. Remember, most of your units are 40% shields in terms of health, and getting EMP'd can really hurt your chances of winning an engagement with the Terran army! Or you could use the dark archon to feedback the science vessel and skip the steps in between :D | ||
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TheGruntMaster6000
11 Posts
Terran: Missile Turrets can be mind controlled and spawn broodling works on them (their art does show a guy controling them afterall). (Nerf) Scv health decreased to 40. (Nerf) Marines go into a crash after their stim wears off causing them to attack and move slowly for the crash duration. Stim can kill your marines if they are low enough on health. (Nerf) Firbats deal normal damage. (Buff) Ghosts get stim pack. They get infinite nuking rage. (Buff) Medics when healing units imbolalize them so they cannot move while being healed. (Nerf) Vultures cost 75 gas instead of 75 minerals. (Nerf) Spidermines (I am considering them a unit because I have OCD about each race not having an equal number of units) get triggered and attack allied plus player units alongside of enemy units. (Nerf) Seige Tanks have 6 minimum range in seigemode. In tank mode, they deal concussive damage. (Nerf) Goliaths deal explosive damage to ground units. Their air attack consists of four 5 damage missiles (+1 to each missile for each ship attack upgrade) rather than two 10 damage missiles. (Nerf) Wraiths cannot move while stealthed. (Nerf) Dropships have light armor instead of heavy. (Buff) Science Vessals Irradiate ability has a chance to mutate target zerglings, hydralisks, or ultralisks into becoming their campaign super unit counter parts (devouring ones, hunter killers, and Tarrasque). Defensive matrix 150 hitpoints of protection instead of 250. Science vessals can only detect invisible owned units. (Nerf) Valkyries can attack land with the same attack as they do with air. (Buff) Battle Cruisers yomato cannon has infinite range. Attack range increased to 12. (Buff) Zerg: Spore Colonies can no longer detect (Nerf) Drone health decreased to 30. (Nerf) Zerglings no longer hatch two at a time. You only get the one. (Nerf) Hydralisk now targeted as a large type unit. (Nerf) Broodlings spawn in groups of 10 now from the spawn broodlings ability. They can also burrow. (Buff) Infested Terrans no longer die when dealing there AoE damage. It is simply their attack. Recycle 2 seconds. (Buff) Lurkers no longer deal their line damage, just a single 20 damage shot. (Nerf) Defilers can only use consume on other defilers. Defilers also now get targeted as a large type unit. Plague no longer reveals stealthed units. (Nerf) Ultralisks deal concussive damage. (Nerf) Mutalisk's bouncy ball effect can now hit player owned units randomly. (Nerf) Scourge only hatch one at a time instead of pairs. (Nerf) Overlords no longer detect (Nerf) Queens no longer require the command center to be damaged before it can infest it. Spawn broodlings creats 10 broodlings. Ensnare now clogs the weapons of units that fire projectiles, meaning they cannot fire when ensnared. (Buff) Devours acid spores now act as orb of corruption from war3 as well as it does in broodwar. This means that for however many acid spores are on the enemy unit, it decreases its armor value (automatically 0 armor if it cannot be decreased any lower). The splash from acid spires also hits ground units (the devour can still only target air units though). Its attack cooldown is also decreased to 2 second. (Buff) Gaurdians now have the same attack speed as zerglings with adrenal glands. (Buff) Protoss: Cannons require that the probe transform into them to construct them, resulting in a loss of the prope. (Nerf) Probes obtain the same pathing AI and collision as dragoons. Health decreased to 10. (Nerf) Zealots damage is dealt between 4 attacks (4x4) rather than 2 (8x2). (Nerf) Dragoons health and shield changed to be 20 health and 160 shields. Damage made consussive. (Nerf) High Templars Spionic stomwave ability does not damage units that are reverse grounded, meaning units which are touching the ground won't take damage. Only hovering units (such as archons) and air units take damage from it. Hallucination has a 10% chance to not work. (Nerf) Dark Templar speed decreased to the same as non-upgraded overlord speed. They appear invisible to the player as well as the enemy unless their next to your detectors. (Nerf) Dark Archons mind control does not result in the loss of all the dark archon's sheilds after casting. Feedback also empties all of the sheilds on a unit and deals its respective damage. Maelstorm has increase of 4 cast range. (Buff) Archons get + 1 ground armor, light armor type, and plus 1 health regen. Reavers scarabs cost 15 gas instead of 15 minerals. Their AoE damage also hits allied and player units. (Nerf) Scouts ground damage decreased by 2. Their air attack consists of four missiles of 7 damage instead of two with 14 damage. (Nerf) Corsair attack is mellee. (Nerf) Observers can only detect burrowed units with the exception of broodlings and infested terrans. Can also detect observers. (Nerf) Shuttles speed upgrade is now in the fleat beacon. Can only carry one unit at a time. (Nerf) Carrier intercepters cannot leave or enter back into the carrier untill the carrier's sheilds are at 0 as the sheilds will deflect them. Can hold 10 intercepters instead of 8. (Overall Nerf) Arbiters stealth area of effect also cloaks enemy units along side of allied and player units when they enter its area of effect. Damage type changed to consussive. Recall can now work on buildings but cannot recall units. (Nerf) These are my ideas. I would love to hear your thoughts on them and see what you all think. Have a good weekend! | ||
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