• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:00
CEST 03:00
KST 10:00
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles7[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China10Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL76
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Server Blocker RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Script to open stream directly using middle click
Tourneys
2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Last Minute Live-Report Thread Resource!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 669 users

Terran wep-upgrades vs Protoss

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-08 07:01:40
May 08 2021 07:00 GMT
#1
Was just doing some research for my own sake, just sharing results:

https://pastebin.com/raw/XKvnrJtc (if there is no number in the field you can assume its the same as before)

What i concluded is Terran upgrades makes huge difference and Protoss Shield is useful to an extent.

Basic knowledge i know but i had to get numbers on it.

Testing isnt complete because i have Zerg to cover and also how useful Terran armor is vs Protoss/Zerg.

Bet my ass this is done already but i cant find it
-.-
LML
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
Germany1764 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-08 09:11:44
May 08 2021 09:10 GMT
#2
I've done something similar but for Protoss last year. I only did the Dragoon, Zealot and Dark Templar vs Terran mech, Marines, SCV and Vessel+Dropship: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DGxja4qwhjUIiqZu4n70_x6t2V4sjzJx410JrXWFKaA/edit?usp=sharing

Map for easy testing I made:
https://mega.nz/file/ap9gQIqA#Qh_D8EkOdCjFaEp73XVqYxo3AhusdYAZB7Aa6FRhhTk
LML
MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
May 08 2021 10:52 GMT
#3
Nice!
-.-
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4005 Posts
May 09 2021 21:10 GMT
#4
I analyzed goliaths vs carriers, it seems that with increasing weapons upgrades for goliaths, the use of added carrier armor and shield upgrades is small and certainly inferior to the carrier weapons upgrade. But to completely neglect armor seems like a mistake.
The first armor upgrade is valuable. After that, adding the second armor upgrade seems reasonable only if the game is expected to continue significantly longer and more than enough resources are available for constant interceptor production. Personally I doubt the use of the second armor upgrade in a real game setting, because terrans are expected to keep upgrading their weapons. Especially the third armor upgrade seems completely useless for carriers in every real game setting.
The first shield upgrade is certainly useful, there's no doubt about it. The second shield upgrade is debatable because it's quite expensive; resources might be spent better on other things, but I'm not entirely sure. The third shield upgrade seems far too expensive to me. Note that I am considering the added use of shield upgrades for ground units, but despite that I believe that the third upgrade is a bad investment.
A good argument can be made in favor of shield batteries, which would also make shield upgrades more valuable (definitely the first one and perhaps the second one, too). The reason is that carriers do best in long, drawn-out battles due to shield regeneration.

I didn't analyze the impact of defensive upgrades on interceptors, so there might be hidden benefits that I've overlooked.

Also, if many upgraded goliaths fire at a carrier at the same time, then none of the defensive upgrades have a meaningful effect (at least against upgraded goliaths). That is firstly because many goliaths firing at the same time causes an overkill effect (making both armor and shield pretty much useless), and secondly because shield regeneration is only meaningful against infrequent hits.

I haven't completed the table yet (it's about 90% done), but I think the above conclusions should be solid. If anyone's interested I'll complete it and post it when I've got time.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
StRyKeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States1739 Posts
May 10 2021 20:41 GMT
#5
Protoss going carriers should always at least get +1 air armor and +1 shield armor because fully upgraded goliaths will kill an interceptor in 5 hits instead of 4 if the Protoss has those upgrades. This 25% increase in interceptor survivability makes a big difference in damage output and cost of replacing interceptors.
Ars longa, vita brevis, principia aeturna.
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4005 Posts
May 10 2021 22:05 GMT
#6
On May 11 2021 05:41 StRyKeR wrote:
Protoss going carriers should always at least get +1 air armor and +1 shield armor because fully upgraded goliaths will kill an interceptor in 5 hits instead of 4 if the Protoss has those upgrades. This 25% increase in interceptor survivability makes a big difference in damage output and cost of replacing interceptors.


That's very good information. Although what would you say is the effective increase (assuming fully loaded carriers) considering overkill? Around 25% or would it be significantly less?
I can't think of a way for me to test this unfortunately.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
StRyKeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States1739 Posts
May 11 2021 15:44 GMT
#7
On May 11 2021 07:05 Magic Powers wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2021 05:41 StRyKeR wrote:
Protoss going carriers should always at least get +1 air armor and +1 shield armor because fully upgraded goliaths will kill an interceptor in 5 hits instead of 4 if the Protoss has those upgrades. This 25% increase in interceptor survivability makes a big difference in damage output and cost of replacing interceptors.


That's very good information. Although what would you say is the effective increase (assuming fully loaded carriers) considering overkill? Around 25% or would it be significantly less?
I can't think of a way for me to test this unfortunately.


Yea, hard to calculate the actual effective increase in survivability. but typically you never focus fire interceptors because they're too small, so goliath damage is generally spread out evenly across interceptors, which lessens overkill.
Ars longa, vita brevis, principia aeturna.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 9h 1m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 212
RuFF_SC2 160
NeuroSwarm 130
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 108
Dota 2
monkeys_forever235
League of Legends
JimRising 811
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor242
Other Games
summit1g11361
ViBE230
Livibee77
Trikslyr75
ROOTCatZ44
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick53117
BasetradeTV27
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta75
• Hupsaiya 39
• musti20045 39
• HeavenSC 29
• OhrlRock 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 5
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22435
League of Legends
• Doublelift5192
• Jankos2813
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
9h 1m
RSL Revival
9h 1m
Classic vs Clem
FEL
14h 1m
Elazer vs Spirit
Gerald vs MaNa
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
17h 1m
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Wardi Open
1d 10h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
HSC XXVII
NC Random Cup

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.