Terran wep-upgrades vs Protoss

MeSaber

Sweden1235 Posts

May 08 2021 07:00 GMT

Was just doing some research for my own sake, just sharing results:

https://pastebin.com/raw/XKvnrJtc (if there is no number in the field you can assume its the same as before)

What i concluded is Terran upgrades makes huge difference and Protoss Shield is useful to an extent.

Basic knowledge i know but i had to get numbers on it.

Testing isnt complete because i have Zerg to cover and also how useful Terran armor is vs Protoss/Zerg.

Bet my ass this is done already but i cant find it

LML

Germany1792 Posts

May 08 2021 09:10 GMT

I've done something similar but for Protoss last year. I only did the Dragoon, Zealot and Dark Templar vs Terran mech, Marines, SCV and Vessel+Dropship: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DGxja4qwhjUIiqZu4n70_x6t2V4sjzJx410JrXWFKaA/edit?usp=sharing

Map for easy testing I made:
https://mega.nz/file/ap9gQIqA#Qh_D8EkOdCjFaEp73XVqYxo3AhusdYAZB7Aa6FRhhTk

MeSaber

Sweden1235 Posts

May 08 2021 10:52 GMT

Nice!

Magic Powers

Austria4478 Posts

May 09 2021 21:10 GMT

I analyzed goliaths vs carriers, it seems that with increasing weapons upgrades for goliaths, the use of added carrier armor and shield upgrades is small and certainly inferior to the carrier weapons upgrade. But to completely neglect armor seems like a mistake.
The first armor upgrade is valuable. After that, adding the second armor upgrade seems reasonable only if the game is expected to continue significantly longer and more than enough resources are available for constant interceptor production. Personally I doubt the use of the second armor upgrade in a real game setting, because terrans are expected to keep upgrading their weapons. Especially the third armor upgrade seems completely useless for carriers in every real game setting.
The first shield upgrade is certainly useful, there's no doubt about it. The second shield upgrade is debatable because it's quite expensive; resources might be spent better on other things, but I'm not entirely sure. The third shield upgrade seems far too expensive to me. Note that I am considering the added use of shield upgrades for ground units, but despite that I believe that the third upgrade is a bad investment.
A good argument can be made in favor of shield batteries, which would also make shield upgrades more valuable (definitely the first one and perhaps the second one, too). The reason is that carriers do best in long, drawn-out battles due to shield regeneration.

I didn't analyze the impact of defensive upgrades on interceptors, so there might be hidden benefits that I've overlooked.

Also, if many upgraded goliaths fire at a carrier at the same time, then none of the defensive upgrades have a meaningful effect (at least against upgraded goliaths). That is firstly because many goliaths firing at the same time causes an overkill effect (making both armor and shield pretty much useless), and secondly because shield regeneration is only meaningful against infrequent hits.

I haven't completed the table yet (it's about 90% done), but I think the above conclusions should be solid. If anyone's interested I'll complete it and post it when I've got time.

StRyKeR

United States1739 Posts

May 10 2021 20:41 GMT

Protoss going carriers should always at least get +1 air armor and +1 shield armor because fully upgraded goliaths will kill an interceptor in 5 hits instead of 4 if the Protoss has those upgrades. This 25% increase in interceptor survivability makes a big difference in damage output and cost of replacing interceptors.

Magic Powers

Austria4478 Posts

May 10 2021 22:05 GMT

On May 11 2021 05:41 StRyKeR wrote:
Protoss going carriers should always at least get +1 air armor and +1 shield armor because fully upgraded goliaths will kill an interceptor in 5 hits instead of 4 if the Protoss has those upgrades. This 25% increase in interceptor survivability makes a big difference in damage output and cost of replacing interceptors.

That's very good information. Although what would you say is the effective increase (assuming fully loaded carriers) considering overkill? Around 25% or would it be significantly less?
I can't think of a way for me to test this unfortunately.

StRyKeR

United States1739 Posts

May 11 2021 15:44 GMT

On May 11 2021 07:05 Magic Powers wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yea, hard to calculate the actual effective increase in survivability. but typically you never focus fire interceptors because they're too small, so goliath damage is generally spread out evenly across interceptors, which lessens overkill.

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