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TvZ SK Terran into mass BC with hidden bases

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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QuadroX
Profile Joined August 2017
386 Posts
March 11 2021 08:55 GMT
#1
Does anyone noticed at lower levels (1200-1400 MMR) so many Korean Terrans go mass BCs with hiding bases on the map? Was there any guide uploaded for this build?

It's starts with SK bio then hiding bases and take fast gas all over the map hoping that Z does not scout (very fast 3rd at random location, then 4th, 5th etc.), then it's 12min BCs out of 4 starports. I know it's been discussed a lot and usual answer "you're bad", "you were behind", "just don't let the game go into this state" etc. But somehow it's popular. It's not a one-off weird BC game anymore, lots of different people go to that exact build. I wonder why it's happening and what's the best response.

Having like 4 BCs at a time arriving at your base is no joke, spores/nydus killed with yamato, defilers can be sniped and it takes so much scourge to connect to them (even 12 scourge can die easily). Is it only "not letting them get there" or there is a way to come back as a Zerg from this dire state?
GGmano
Profile Joined February 2021
103 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-03-11 11:13:03
March 11 2021 11:11 GMT
#2
1 defiler with plague and swarm and hyds would do really good against stacked bc if the terran only have bio+bc and no tank terran would hard time against defiler lurker and hyds
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2037 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-03-11 11:55:20
March 11 2021 11:40 GMT
#3
There is currently a strong TvZ meta for 3-4 starport battlecruiser, for sure.

But I am not sure about the hidden base? Also why hide a base as terran vs zerg, if you can take any base and hold it with group of marines lol. Or you just mean other corner base? (that is not hidden, just normal expansion pattern)
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
March 11 2021 15:02 GMT
#4
Any replays/videos to show this? Im interested.
-.-
QuadroX
Profile Joined August 2017
386 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-03-11 18:51:42
March 11 2021 18:51 GMT
#5
On March 11 2021 20:40 kogeT wrote:
There is currently a strong TvZ meta for 3-4 starport battlecruiser, for sure.

But I am not sure about the hidden base? Also why hide a base as terran vs zerg, if you can take any base and hold it with group of marines lol. Or you just mean other corner base? (that is not hidden, just normal expansion pattern)


Good to know it's confirmed as new meta trend. Means I'm not going completely crazy. :D

Yes other corner or mid-left/mid-right on Shakuras. I just got used to the idea that T takes closer bases first, maybe it's not hidden in this sense.
QuadroX
Profile Joined August 2017
386 Posts
March 11 2021 18:53 GMT
#6
On March 12 2021 00:02 MeSaber wrote:
Any replays/videos to show this? Im interested.


I'm too insecure to post mine since I played really badly in those games taken completely off guard but I'll post once I have a decent game or find somebody else's.
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2037 Posts
March 11 2021 21:05 GMT
#7
On bigger map it is quite natural to secure the far corner + natural 3rd
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-03-12 09:45:41
March 12 2021 09:43 GMT
#8
If you get to four bases in decent time without taking damage, just start attack moving units everywhere all of the time. He will hold on for a while, but he won't be able to keep up and will eventually run out of money, since he'll fail at securing additional expansions. If the game is going like this, you can just make some scourge to trade gas for gas against battle cruisers.. Spore colonies are also very cost effective because just two of them, which cost no gas, defeat one battle battle cruiser, which costs much gas.

Plague is also great. If you want a style that counters battle cruisers, and which is also a bit of an anti SK-Terran style, try hydralisk lurker defiler. You'll be able to plague BCs, swarm hydralisks, just attack battle cruisers cost effectively with hydralisks, and if he insists on playing without tanks, he'll have a hard time. Many Terran experts add tanks as a reaction to hydralisk lurker (with eventual defiler) play.
Whenever he sends one vessel forth, just send your hydralisks forth to block the irradiation attempt. If he then sends marines forth to deal with your hydralisks, just plague him.

Drops are also good with this style. Just be passive, expanding everywhere, and then as soon as he moves out of his base to shut down one of your expansions, you drop in his base (It's also ok to just walk in to his natural after he has walked out a bit). It's a lot easier to do than it is to play against, which is what you need at lower levels. It's easier for Terran to just park a battle cruiser above a mineral line than it is for Zerg to defend against it, so why not take what you have that's easier for you? Hydra lurker (defiler) is one such thing, and attack moving everywhere all of the time once you get to the late game healthily is an other.
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
9-BiT
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States1089 Posts
March 12 2021 13:28 GMT
#9
On March 11 2021 20:40 kogeT wrote:
There is currently a strong TvZ meta for 3-4 starport battlecruiser, for sure.

But I am not sure about the hidden base? Also why hide a base as terran vs zerg, if you can take any base and hold it with group of marines lol. Or you just mean other corner base? (that is not hidden, just normal expansion pattern)

Which pros are doing this? I haven’t seen anybody going 3/4 port battle cruiser.
kwark_uk: @father_sc learn to play maybe?
MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
March 13 2021 16:11 GMT
#10
Can we get some vods here showing some BCs?
-.-
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
March 14 2021 07:53 GMT
#11
Send one zergling to every expansion on the map
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2037 Posts
March 15 2021 08:38 GMT
#12
On March 12 2021 22:28 9-BiT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2021 20:40 kogeT wrote:
There is currently a strong TvZ meta for 3-4 starport battlecruiser, for sure.

But I am not sure about the hidden base? Also why hide a base as terran vs zerg, if you can take any base and hold it with group of marines lol. Or you just mean other corner base? (that is not hidden, just normal expansion pattern)

Which pros are doing this? I haven’t seen anybody going 3/4 port battle cruiser.


https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10138 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-03-15 14:15:42
March 15 2021 14:13 GMT
#13
Should also be noted that at low MMR, Terrans are much more likely to not macro M&M properly, so they will end up floating resources. This makes it even easier to do BCs, and even float the gas needed to get double Armory upgrades.

EDIT: Also yea, prevention is the best solution, if they are investing in BCs then in theory you should be able to overpower them because those resources are not being spent on active army. As for hidden bases, you should really have Zerglings patrolling in extra bases, they are the cheapest form of scouting really.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
QuadroX
Profile Joined August 2017
386 Posts
March 15 2021 15:27 GMT
#14
On March 12 2021 18:43 vOdToasT wrote:
If you get to four bases in decent time without taking damage, just start attack moving units everywhere all of the time. He will hold on for a while, but he won't be able to keep up and will eventually run out of money, since he'll fail at securing additional expansions. If the game is going like this, you can just make some scourge to trade gas for gas against battle cruisers.. Spore colonies are also very cost effective because just two of them, which cost no gas, defeat one battle battle cruiser, which costs much gas.

Plague is also great. If you want a style that counters battle cruisers, and which is also a bit of an anti SK-Terran style, try hydralisk lurker defiler. You'll be able to plague BCs, swarm hydralisks, just attack battle cruisers cost effectively with hydralisks, and if he insists on playing without tanks, he'll have a hard time. Many Terran experts add tanks as a reaction to hydralisk lurker (with eventual defiler) play.
Whenever he sends one vessel forth, just send your hydralisks forth to block the irradiation attempt. If he then sends marines forth to deal with your hydralisks, just plague him.

Drops are also good with this style. Just be passive, expanding everywhere, and then as soon as he moves out of his base to shut down one of your expansions, you drop in his base (It's also ok to just walk in to his natural after he has walked out a bit). It's a lot easier to do than it is to play against, which is what you need at lower levels. It's easier for Terran to just park a battle cruiser above a mineral line than it is for Zerg to defend against it, so why not take what you have that's easier for you? Hydra lurker (defiler) is one such thing, and attack moving everywhere all of the time once you get to the late game healthily is an other.


Aside from preventing it tips transitioning to hydra-lurker-defiler is actually very interesting idea. The only downside is you have not upgraded hydras and invest time and gas to have those upgrades (speed/range/attack).

Spores cost only minerals but the downside you always lose a drone making spore. You hurt yourself by doing it, and spores can be sniped with yamato eventually (free energy spell vs lost drone + resources).
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