• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:20
CEST 05:20
KST 12:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed8Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll2Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension2Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
Who will win EWC 2025? Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL Starcraft in widescreen BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 482 users

Burrowing defilers

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4019 Posts
October 01 2020 11:56 GMT
#1
First a little backstory to my idea:
I'm currently playing a lot of Hunters trying to beat the map with zerg vs 7 CPU. It's not an easy challenge, winning with terran or protoss is a lot easier (mainly with siege tanks or carriers). But I'm sure it's doable with zerg.
The thing that has gotten me every time so far are siege tanks. Combined with all the other assaults and unit compositions like HT, DA, lurkers, air units and general onslaughts it's difficult to hold ground, secure more bases, and most importantly actually push out and destroy enemy bases.

The spoiler part is irrelevant for my thread idea, read only if you care:
+ Show Spoiler +
My strategy right now is to spawn at 11 or 12 (if I get rushed by zerglings or my 11/12 o'clock neighbor is protoss I have to restart), build a proxy hatch to seal off the entrance to both top locations, destroy the neighboring position with zerglings and secure two expansions. I try to keep my sunk count to a neccessary minimum and I get a bunch of lurkers before my defiler tech finishes. I also try to upgrade and replace my proxy hatch to win more time before siege tanks arrive.
Using that tech the next phase is about trying to push out and placing some forward sunkens and spores, while also putting some defensive measures at each base. The rest of the game should be all about killing enemy bases as quickly as possible using classic late game zerg strats.
This strategy looks to be the most promising so far. I'm quite confident it should work.


Unfortunately the last game I lost to DA's because they kept killing my defilers while I was trying to secure the fourth (min only) base. This had me scratching my head because timing is everything. I thought about just keeping my defiler energy low at all times, but that alone doesn't seem efficient enough as a defiler has 80 HP and every spell costs at least 100 energy, so I won't always be able to get the energy significantly below 80, especially with all the multitasking stealing my attention. Sometimes I'm fighting over seconds.

So I had another idea: burrowing my defilers. It'll be ever so slightly more difficult for protoss to feedback them, perhaps giving me that extra second to place a life-saving dark swarm.

And this brought me to the thread idea.
In ZvT, why not use burrow for defilers? We've seen zerg hide their defilers using nydus, a very effective maneuver. They also use spores defensively to zone out vessels a bit. But what about situations where there's no nydus available? I'm imagining burrowing a defiler and putting zerglings on top, for example. Or any other unit. They could be unburrowed or also burrowed with the defiler. If they're unburrowed - at least underneath a dark swarm - the defiler becomes virtually untouchable by vessels unless the unit on top gets killed, e.g. by a siege tank or irradiate. Zerg can use anything from zerglings, drones, hydras, ultras, even overlords or mutalisks, who knows maybe even a lurker could come in handy.
Zerg could perhaps even burrow multiple units over and around a defiler. Let terran try to irradiate the right unit. And then let him try it when they're underneath a dark swarm.
Now I don't think this is a gamebreaking idea, but I think it could add a few wins in the long run. I'm sure if it's a valid idea the top zerg players wouldn't mind eking out just one extra victory against Flash.

PS: Burrow underneath dark swarm would obviously also render the defiler untouchable by siege tanks. I've seen professional games being lost or almost lost due to a defiler getting shot down by siege tanks while under dark swarm. Burrow would prevent that.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2037 Posts
October 01 2020 12:33 GMT
#2
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/49332869?filter=highlights&sort=time
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10671 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-01 13:11:47
October 01 2020 13:08 GMT
#3
On October 01 2020 21:33 kogeT wrote:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/49332869?filter=highlights&sort=time

Thank god someone has finally done it, awesome input on the thread by the way, since the point was how to beat 1v7 Computer and not about the usage of burrowed defilers.

I would say that burrowing defilers can be good, especially under dark swarm as it makes them harder to see / click to iridate as Terran or feedback as Toss, although the utility of it can be kind of hard to utilize in the midst of everything else going on, also I think the general idea behind it is that to unborrow and then cast the spell is a lot more APM intensive than just hiding / keeping your defiler away from any threat and casting it when its ready is generally easier.

Also I almost feel like hiding the Defiler inside of an Overlord is much safer than burrowing and easier / faster to execute, to drop a Defiler from an Overlord and then cast the spell. Also not to mention that the Defiler cannot be detected inside of an overlord, unless your opponent sees you load it in.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
radley
Profile Joined August 2008
Poland582 Posts
October 01 2020 22:15 GMT
#4
Oh you haven't yet see me beating Terran's brood war campaign without mining any gas in any of missions.
TL+ Member
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4019 Posts
October 02 2020 01:03 GMT
#5
I actually just finished the challenge
I hope it's ok if I post the link to the replay. I'm by no means a good player and better players might cringe at this, but it does make me proud.
The game was pretty close. I did end up using burrowed defilers, but I can't tell whether or not that had much of an impact on the outcome.

bwreplays.com
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-02 06:57:32
October 02 2020 06:51 GMT
#6
burrowing defilers is a thing and so is putting them above a gas so they're not visible. Also, burrowing anything, whether it be lurker or defiler, on top of a burrowed lurker is usually a good idea. I have seen high level zerg do all of these things pretty often. it's just hard to notice that they are actually doing these things but the better you get, the more appreciation for how many effective actions they are doing.

The main weaknesses of this tactic is likely the amount of extra actions required to burrow them in the first place (it's not that easy to stack burrowed units). It's also not good against siege tanks and it takes time for units to spread out if you un-burrow although these are minor issues. I usually see it being done in midgame up to the earlier part of the late game, before you need to defend the onslaught of terran harass.
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4019 Posts
October 02 2020 11:03 GMT
#7
Thanks, I'll be watching for those burrow moments! I must've missed them or forgot they happened, and I guess that can easily happen since it's such a minor thing.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
October 02 2020 11:51 GMT
#8
@anc13nt ure wrong there. Its very easy to burrow units on top of each other. You use Patrol on the unit who is already burrowed. The unit will then move and turn exactly on the already burrowed unit where you click U.

You can do this in rapid succession with multiple units at the same time as long they have a brief pause between em to not collide. I.e p, left, p, left, p, left... wait for first unit to arrive then u, u ,u .
-.-
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-02 13:09:45
October 02 2020 13:09 GMT
#9
On October 02 2020 20:51 MeSaber wrote:
@anc13nt ure wrong there. Its very easy to burrow units on top of each other. You use Patrol on the unit who is already burrowed. The unit will then move and turn exactly on the already burrowed unit where you click U.

You can do this in rapid succession with multiple units at the same time as long they have a brief pause between em to not collide. I.e p, left, p, left, p, left... wait for first unit to arrive then u, u ,u .


Did not know that. Interesting. Sure beats spam clicking on the burrowed unit or moving a unit beyond it and then stopping it. I will try it out once I have the time.
Brainojack
Profile Joined March 2018
Canada195 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-02 13:47:14
October 02 2020 13:43 GMT
#10
Since this tactic is in the context of a 1v7comp thread, How effective is putting defilers above a gas, or having other units over top the burrowed defiler? Compy doesn't have to click in the GUI
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4019 Posts
October 02 2020 14:12 GMT
#11
Just tried the patrol burrow, it works! Pretty neat
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
SEL Masters #4 - Day 2
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 280
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 31916
Sharp 65
NaDa 39
Icarus 7
Dota 2
monkeys_forever1044
NeuroSwarm137
League of Legends
JimRising 917
Trikslyr82
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K620
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox759
Other Games
summit1g15426
shahzam1375
WinterStarcraft256
Maynarde116
RuFF_SC226
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3301
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH243
• Mapu15
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra2910
• Rush1921
• Lourlo233
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
6h 40m
WardiTV European League
12h 40m
ShoWTimE vs sebesdes
Percival vs NightPhoenix
Shameless vs Nicoract
Krystianer vs Scarlett
ByuN vs uThermal
Harstem vs HeRoMaRinE
PiGosaur Monday
20h 40m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 12h
Replay Cast
1d 20h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Epic.LAN
4 days
[ Show More ]
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Online Event
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Liquipedia Results

Completed

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.