• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 04:57
CET 10:57
KST 18:57
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
Foreign Brood War BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Data analysis on 70 million replays BW General Discussion MBCGame Torrents
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile ZeroSpace Megathread The Perfect Game
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
Physical Exertion During Gam…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 960 users

Burrowing defilers

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
October 01 2020 11:56 GMT
#1
First a little backstory to my idea:
I'm currently playing a lot of Hunters trying to beat the map with zerg vs 7 CPU. It's not an easy challenge, winning with terran or protoss is a lot easier (mainly with siege tanks or carriers). But I'm sure it's doable with zerg.
The thing that has gotten me every time so far are siege tanks. Combined with all the other assaults and unit compositions like HT, DA, lurkers, air units and general onslaughts it's difficult to hold ground, secure more bases, and most importantly actually push out and destroy enemy bases.

The spoiler part is irrelevant for my thread idea, read only if you care:
+ Show Spoiler +
My strategy right now is to spawn at 11 or 12 (if I get rushed by zerglings or my 11/12 o'clock neighbor is protoss I have to restart), build a proxy hatch to seal off the entrance to both top locations, destroy the neighboring position with zerglings and secure two expansions. I try to keep my sunk count to a neccessary minimum and I get a bunch of lurkers before my defiler tech finishes. I also try to upgrade and replace my proxy hatch to win more time before siege tanks arrive.
Using that tech the next phase is about trying to push out and placing some forward sunkens and spores, while also putting some defensive measures at each base. The rest of the game should be all about killing enemy bases as quickly as possible using classic late game zerg strats.
This strategy looks to be the most promising so far. I'm quite confident it should work.


Unfortunately the last game I lost to DA's because they kept killing my defilers while I was trying to secure the fourth (min only) base. This had me scratching my head because timing is everything. I thought about just keeping my defiler energy low at all times, but that alone doesn't seem efficient enough as a defiler has 80 HP and every spell costs at least 100 energy, so I won't always be able to get the energy significantly below 80, especially with all the multitasking stealing my attention. Sometimes I'm fighting over seconds.

So I had another idea: burrowing my defilers. It'll be ever so slightly more difficult for protoss to feedback them, perhaps giving me that extra second to place a life-saving dark swarm.

And this brought me to the thread idea.
In ZvT, why not use burrow for defilers? We've seen zerg hide their defilers using nydus, a very effective maneuver. They also use spores defensively to zone out vessels a bit. But what about situations where there's no nydus available? I'm imagining burrowing a defiler and putting zerglings on top, for example. Or any other unit. They could be unburrowed or also burrowed with the defiler. If they're unburrowed - at least underneath a dark swarm - the defiler becomes virtually untouchable by vessels unless the unit on top gets killed, e.g. by a siege tank or irradiate. Zerg can use anything from zerglings, drones, hydras, ultras, even overlords or mutalisks, who knows maybe even a lurker could come in handy.
Zerg could perhaps even burrow multiple units over and around a defiler. Let terran try to irradiate the right unit. And then let him try it when they're underneath a dark swarm.
Now I don't think this is a gamebreaking idea, but I think it could add a few wins in the long run. I'm sure if it's a valid idea the top zerg players wouldn't mind eking out just one extra victory against Flash.

PS: Burrow underneath dark swarm would obviously also render the defiler untouchable by siege tanks. I've seen professional games being lost or almost lost due to a defiler getting shot down by siege tanks while under dark swarm. Burrow would prevent that.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2041 Posts
October 01 2020 12:33 GMT
#2
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/49332869?filter=highlights&sort=time
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10686 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-01 13:11:47
October 01 2020 13:08 GMT
#3
On October 01 2020 21:33 kogeT wrote:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/49332869?filter=highlights&sort=time

Thank god someone has finally done it, awesome input on the thread by the way, since the point was how to beat 1v7 Computer and not about the usage of burrowed defilers.

I would say that burrowing defilers can be good, especially under dark swarm as it makes them harder to see / click to iridate as Terran or feedback as Toss, although the utility of it can be kind of hard to utilize in the midst of everything else going on, also I think the general idea behind it is that to unborrow and then cast the spell is a lot more APM intensive than just hiding / keeping your defiler away from any threat and casting it when its ready is generally easier.

Also I almost feel like hiding the Defiler inside of an Overlord is much safer than burrowing and easier / faster to execute, to drop a Defiler from an Overlord and then cast the spell. Also not to mention that the Defiler cannot be detected inside of an overlord, unless your opponent sees you load it in.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
radley
Profile Joined August 2008
Poland582 Posts
October 01 2020 22:15 GMT
#4
Oh you haven't yet see me beating Terran's brood war campaign without mining any gas in any of missions.
TL+ Member
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
October 02 2020 01:03 GMT
#5
I actually just finished the challenge
I hope it's ok if I post the link to the replay. I'm by no means a good player and better players might cringe at this, but it does make me proud.
The game was pretty close. I did end up using burrowed defilers, but I can't tell whether or not that had much of an impact on the outcome.

bwreplays.com
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-02 06:57:32
October 02 2020 06:51 GMT
#6
burrowing defilers is a thing and so is putting them above a gas so they're not visible. Also, burrowing anything, whether it be lurker or defiler, on top of a burrowed lurker is usually a good idea. I have seen high level zerg do all of these things pretty often. it's just hard to notice that they are actually doing these things but the better you get, the more appreciation for how many effective actions they are doing.

The main weaknesses of this tactic is likely the amount of extra actions required to burrow them in the first place (it's not that easy to stack burrowed units). It's also not good against siege tanks and it takes time for units to spread out if you un-burrow although these are minor issues. I usually see it being done in midgame up to the earlier part of the late game, before you need to defend the onslaught of terran harass.
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
October 02 2020 11:03 GMT
#7
Thanks, I'll be watching for those burrow moments! I must've missed them or forgot they happened, and I guess that can easily happen since it's such a minor thing.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
October 02 2020 11:51 GMT
#8
@anc13nt ure wrong there. Its very easy to burrow units on top of each other. You use Patrol on the unit who is already burrowed. The unit will then move and turn exactly on the already burrowed unit where you click U.

You can do this in rapid succession with multiple units at the same time as long they have a brief pause between em to not collide. I.e p, left, p, left, p, left... wait for first unit to arrive then u, u ,u .
-.-
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-02 13:09:45
October 02 2020 13:09 GMT
#9
On October 02 2020 20:51 MeSaber wrote:
@anc13nt ure wrong there. Its very easy to burrow units on top of each other. You use Patrol on the unit who is already burrowed. The unit will then move and turn exactly on the already burrowed unit where you click U.

You can do this in rapid succession with multiple units at the same time as long they have a brief pause between em to not collide. I.e p, left, p, left, p, left... wait for first unit to arrive then u, u ,u .


Did not know that. Interesting. Sure beats spam clicking on the burrowed unit or moving a unit beyond it and then stopping it. I will try it out once I have the time.
Brainojack
Profile Joined March 2018
Canada195 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-02 13:47:14
October 02 2020 13:43 GMT
#10
Since this tactic is in the context of a 1v7comp thread, How effective is putting defilers above a gas, or having other units over top the burrowed defiler? Compy doesn't have to click in the GUI
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
October 02 2020 14:12 GMT
#11
Just tried the patrol burrow, it works! Pretty neat
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
trigger 66
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 3131
Leta 1040
BeSt 760
firebathero 362
Zeus 337
Killer 321
Jaedong 261
910 248
EffOrt 241
Bale 139
[ Show more ]
sorry 138
Dewaltoss 111
JulyZerg 90
Sacsri 80
zelot 59
Mind 23
Sharp 22
Noble 18
Shinee 13
Hm[arnc] 10
Terrorterran 5
Dota 2
singsing3950
NeuroSwarm156
XcaliburYe10
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0727
hungrybox268
AZ_Axe38
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor196
Other Games
summit1g10810
mouzStarbuck429
RotterdaM154
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 41
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 35
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota260
League of Legends
• Jankos2513
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3m
CranKy Ducklings10
WardiTV 2025
2h 3m
OSC
5h 3m
IPSL
7h 3m
Bonyth vs KameZerg
BSL 21
10h 3m
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
23h 3m
Wardi Open
1d 2h
StarCraft2.fi
1d 6h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 7h
Replay Cast
1d 14h
[ Show More ]
WardiTV 2025
2 days
StarCraft2.fi
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
StarCraft2.fi
3 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
WardiTV 2025
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
WardiTV 2025
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
IPSL
6 days
Sziky vs JDConan
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-12-04
RSL Revival: Season 3
Light HT

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
Kuram Kup
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
RSL Offline Finals
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.