EPTHelpless against Battlecruisers - Page 2
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4328 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19201 Posts
If he skips turrets do a mass doom drop in his main with lurkers. The noob way however is this: If he skips tanks and doesn't wall, then rush all your ling research and mass lings. BCs can only shoot one thing at a time and a hundred lings running into their base will certainly get you to win condition faster. I also doubt that he scouts well and tries to kill of your expansions. Try to make your hatcheries at as many different mineral lines as possible. BCs are slow and it will take him a long time to travel to each base. | ||
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Veky
5 Posts
On May 21 2020 10:01 ninazerg wrote: You should upload some replays. They should be in a file path like: C:\Users\[your username]\Documents\StarCraft\Maps\Replays\AutoSave You can also search your computer for "AutoSave" to find it. Then go to bwreplays.com and click the "Upload" button in the top right. You can also drag files from your computer directly to the bwreplays page on your browser. A link to the replay will appear at the top of the page. Copy and paste that link to here, like so: http://bwreplays.com/qqweh Now other users will be able to download your replay and watch it at their own pace. I hope that helps. I followed your guide and here is upload http://bwreplays.com/atjij Thanks for everyone with your tips.. Its painful how much gas Zerg need, specially if I build complete army which consists of different units Different units such as muta, hydra, defiler, queen, devourer...I mean to beat Battlecruisers I need these types of units. I improved a little bit with use of F2,F3 and F4, but friend of mine is on same level like me, he is not using these and our apm is same - around 70. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
What you think about balance is meaningless. You could had just spammed hydras and beat your friend that way. In fact that might be a good way to train yourself. I've never played that map before, but there's something wrong with two of the drones mining on that map on your side. Don't know if you can fix it, but you never even tried to alter the pathfinding and tell that drone on the bottom right minerals to move a bit more to the left before mining again which would had fixed it. You can't have gotten tired of "Fighting Spirit" so play that map instead so you can familiarise yourself with one of the most famous and most played maps. Circuit Breaker is pretty good too. You went 8 gas into nothing. This is not an opener. 2 seige tanks and a bunker. Was all he had for the first 11 minutes of the game. 15 mins he had "only" 6 BC. Exaggeration doesn't help you get the advice you need. The biggest difference between you and your friend is that your friend has an aim and you don't. Even if that aim was get 12 BC and go attack. And with that he think you think he was overwhelming you. All the advice formerly given assumed that you have at least hundreds of more hours than you have ever played. But don't worry, we all were noobs once. Improvement can be easy and rapid at your stage. First step is recognising that you know nothing.  Portal:BeginnersRead this website and get your friend to read it. Also read Category:ZvT Builds and get your friend to read Category:TvZ Builds. At the very least memorise an opening build order and practice doing it and you'll find that you improved yourself.I recommend starting with the least complicated ones and go from 5 pool to 7 pool, 9 pool, 12 pool, 12 hatch, Hatch gas pool, 2 hatch lurker, 3 hatch lurker at the end. If you want you can also go mutas instead of lurkers. For your friend he should try out Barracks Barracks Supply, Sparks Terran, 1Rax FE, Ayumi build, +1 5 Rax, TvZ 9 Minute Push, SK Terran in order of difficulty. Since he seems to like BC, he can easily adapt SK terran to make BC instead of science vessels. Maybe not the play the early ones at the same time though as one will decisively counter the other, but learning that way is a good way to see the relationship between units, economy and expanding. Also note that you can often take later CC at like 20 supply to be safer from Zerg, and in the case of Zerg, the first lings can be placed in front of the terran base or middle of map to make creep colonies or morph sunkens for defence. | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
On May 23 2020 05:46 Veky wrote: I followed your guide and here is upload http://bwreplays.com/atjij Thanks for everyone with your tips.. Its painful how much gas Zerg need, specially if I build complete army which consists of different units Different units such as muta, hydra, defiler, queen, devourer...I mean to beat Battlecruisers I need these types of units. I improved a little bit with use of F2,F3 and F4, but friend of mine is on same level like me, he is not using these and our apm is same - around 70. Okay, neat! There are a ton of things I could say about this particular replay, but I don't want to blast you with tons of advice all at once. Instead, I want to give you a few simple concepts that you can build upon as you play more StarCraft. Investments pay for armies, not savings - In your original post, you mentioned that you felt like you didn't have enough vespene gas. When I watched the replay, I saw that the first building you built was a vespene geyser, and I would guess that you felt like you needed it in order to start saving up gas early on. Not a bad idea! Sometimes, it's good to save up money, but another hidden resource is time. As you play the game, every second that goes by, your enemy is also building their base and their army. If they have more income than you, then they can build more army than you. What you want to think about early in the game is how you can invest your money so you can have more (or equal) income than your opponent. If you watch the replay yourself, you'll see there are times when you have thousands of minerals but very little gas. That's your cue to send a drone to go build a base at a new location with vespene gas. As you play a lot more games, you'll have a better idea of when to take a new base well before you have a shortage of resources. The drones mining minerals will also need to eventually have a new location to mine from, and it's important to set up a new base location before your minerals are almost gone, or even completely gone. You definitely want to think about how you can increase your income rather than stockpiling money. Scouting - Everyone will tell you that you need to scout the map out. Sending units to explore will clue you in on what you need to do and possible adjustments that you need to make. There are a limited number of strategic possibilities for your opponent, and you need to mentally eliminate some of those possibilities, so you don't find yourself trying to prepare for everything possible. In this case, the mini-map is going to help you a lot. If you have trouble seeing enemies, you can change the mini-map colors with shift+tab so all enemy units are red on the mini-map. There are many, many ways to scout, but most of your scouting is going to come from overlords and zerglings. There are many locations where overlords can hover over without fear of being hit from the ground. If you think your opponent is going to build air units, you can research Pneumatized Carapace at your lair, which will greatly increase the speed of your overlords, so they can escape from danger. Zerglings are good for scouting because of their low cost, and their high speed. One thing you need to look for is whether or not your opponent has left their base. Placing a zergling outside of their entrance will let you know if the opponent is still inside their base, or leaving. If the opponent is building a lot of air units, you may need to place zerglings around the opponent's base to spot for air units leaving their base. You don't need everything at once - When you play against a particular unit type or combo of unit types, you need to have a response that makes the most of the limited time and income that you have. Your response to battlecruisers in the game you played was to get spore colonies, scourge, mutalisks, queens, defilers, hydralisks -- all while mining from only two extractors. Doing this, you will have a little bit of everything, but never enough of what you need. I'll make two suggestion: First one is to make only hydralisks and a few defilers. Second suggestion is to get double spires (like you did), but only make air units. No hydralisks or defilers. You can get everything you want once you have 4 or 5 bases mining minerals and gas for you. Before that, it's going to be difficult to get absolutely every kind of upgrade and unit that you want. If you go with a ground-based army against a battlecruiser fleet, you'll want to build a nydus canal between your farthest base, and where your main base is rallying units to. This will make it easier to jump your units to the other side of the map. If you are scouting the map by putting zerglings around, you'll know where the battlecruisers are going, and the nydus canal will make it easier to get there. You need at least two evolution chambers to get your ranged attack and carapace to match the battlecruiser upgrades. If you go with an air-based force against a battlecruiser fleet, you're going to want to build a large number of devourers to combat the battlecruisers. You'll need two spires to match the upgrades of the battlecruiser fleet. Devourers are not gas-heavy. To transform a mutalisk into a devourer costs 150 minerals and only 50 gas. The total cost per devourer is 250 minerals, and 150 gas for each mutalisk and transformation. You will probably need to have 3-4 bases to pay for the cost of this, but 24 devourers will definitely kill 12 battlecruisers unless you don't upgrade your units and don't get the irradiated ones away from the healthy ones. | ||
Ty2
United States1434 Posts
You could be fancy and go defiler swarm to protect hydras or go plague, but just sticking to armies that use only one or two units with no spellcasting and need for good positioning and foresight and only need a-move might be more better for your level. Key is to just have a metric crap ton of shit, whatever you make. Don't try being cutesy. And again, the key to winning is just have a ton of shit, and more shit than your opponent, which is really the way you win games in StarCraft. Also, don't be afraid to just lay down 4, even 5, 8? hatcheries all at once when that money gets big if that's what it takes for you to make sure your money is spent, because ultimately, that is better than having only 3 bases and 3 hatcheries and 3000+ money. ![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/5/5c/Divine_Wind.gif) It's all in the scourge Also in your replay like others have mentioned, you don't seem to have a handle of basic mining optimization and resource management. What you want to do in games is not think from a "He might attack me any time now, I need some defenses now in case that happens" mindset. You want to actually get away with as much as you humanly can so that you get ahead in resources and have more than your opponent. Ideally, you make as little defense as needed, and maximize your economy through pumping out tons of drones. Can't really overdo the drones. What does as little defense look like? I guess that's hard, but I'd recommend starting out to try to be as greedy as you can be, like, super naughty greedy. Just really pump out the drones thinking of how disgustingly greedy you're being. You might think, wow, you just made what feels like 30 drones, but don't stop there, because you're gonna make 100 more right now. And you won't have even made a single bit of defense. Really just test that out, push those boundaries, feel that taste of freedom of wow i have way more resources way earlier than I'm used to having. The difference between good and bad resource management early game can easily mean the difference between having 5,000 minerals 10 minutes sooner as opposed to ten minutes later, and that much more resources you're gonna have in comparison to your opponent. I'm exaggerating and oversimplifying to make a point, but that's the difference making four drones, instead of two sunken colonies can make within the first 3 minutes of play since those two drones gets you more money, lets you afford drones sooner, those drones mine more stuff and let you get more money faster for other drones/army...get that third base even faster, etc so that 10 minutes later, damn, you're really rich. So my 3 points are basically: 1) Have primarily tons of scourge, and a couple hydra to beat BCs 2) Make 4, even 6+ Hatcheries placed in your main/1st base all clumped together so you spend your money. Ctrl+click larvae so you have 12 larvae selected at a time, or box them optionally if it's allowed. 3) Have better resource management, i.e., instead of making those spore colonies and sunkens, instead invest into drones, and don't be afraid to be too greedy. That way you'll have WAY more (think upwards of 5,000) minerals and gas than you normally would have at any point in time which means a much bigger army than the usual. That's 200 more lings than you normally would have. Wow. | ||
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Zestypasta
United States61 Posts
1. Plague 2. Mass scourge I would recommend plague. I remember one of my first games back to broodwar I had a zvt game with mass bc's. I was focusing so much on taking expansions I didn't notice that he was making them. When I noticed, I started making scourge/hydras/defilers. At that point it was him just trying to get rid of defilers using irradiate (sci vessel spell), then coming in with bc's. It worked surprisingly well for him for a couple of engagements. I did eventually get a plague off. After that it was a *lot* easier. I know you said the bc's yamato your defilers. That spell takes a while to fire; you should be able to cast plague if they can cast yamato. In addition, dark swarm with hydras can hold off bc's if he gets an irrad. or is about to snipe your defiler. Use this to buy time for another defiler to hatch/get there or reinforce with hydras. Plague is a good response because you should always have defilers vs terran imo. When everything is one hp, send in some mutas to destroy everything. | ||
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