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Hi everyone,
I play as Zerg against friend of mine that is Terran.
We are both noobs okay, we don't play against other people, just against each other.
So what frustrates me so much that I had to open this topic is:
How the hell do you counter mass Battlecruisers as a ZERG ??
What friend of mine does is - He mass 15 Battlecruisers by the first 15 min of the game, and he send them to destroy my latest expansions.
Spore colonies he destroys insta with Yamato gun, so no talk about them doing anything for my defense.
The rest of the Yamato gun he saves to kill my Defilers or eventually Devourers if I build them.
If I come with my Hydralisks these Battlecruisers kill them easily as most of the expansions on almost any map are smaller than naturals - which means Hydralisks come in line instead of all together - easy target for Battlecruisers.
If i protect Hydralisks with Dark Swarm no big deal - Battlecruisers go away and I cant catch them even with Queen's Ensnare as expansions are divided by river or something else that stops my ground units from catching them (at least they are in maps that we play like "Eye of the storm" or "Beltway".)
If I go with my hydralisks to the other side where Battlecruisers retreat, they all die as hydralisks are relatively squishy.
On the other hand Plague does not do that much damage to Battlecruisers, and many times he has SCV to repair them when they retreat.
So Hydras and Defilers are only ground anti air unit solutions.
Lets see Zerg air solutions:
If I decide to mass Mutalisks, well first of all - they are expensive with Gas.
Even if I manage to get enough of gas at the time when he has that many Battlecruisers, Mutalisks are not so powerfull without Devourers to support them.
Devourers ask for additional Gas, and they are not that hard to kill, specially when he saves Yamato gun for them, and believe me - with 15-20 Battlecruisers he has enough of Yamato!
Even if Battlecruisers are not able to defend themselves, he has Science Vessels to support them with Shield and Irradiate which he saves for my expensive Devourers in case he didn't use Yamato already.
And if Battlecruisers and Science Vessels are not enough - He always has 2-3 VALKYRIES behind, so Mutalisks have no chance anyway.
Scourges are useless as soon as there are at least 5 Battlecruisers as they snip them instantly, and I am talking about 15-20 Battlecruisers.
Now I know that your first thought might be - you are too slow.
And I agree, I wont try to hide that as I am in fact slow, but I wonder what advice can I get?
Many times I wonder what Jaedong or Shine would do if their Terran opponent mass that many Battlecruisers, as I haven't seen any pro ZvT game where that situation happened.
Actually I don't understand why Terran players don't use that strategy against Zerg, as obviously Terran air units are stronger than Zerg air units, and I didn't even mention Wraiths which with their Cloak ability can cause additional troubles to Zerg.
Thanks for reading
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A replay would be very helpful.
Plague is good, hydras as well (keep up your upgrades). Also battlecruisers are slow, you should habe way more bases than him so when he attacks one counter attack somewhere else : drop him, hit his natural, anything really.
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What srj wrote seems like the apparent solution. Be more aggressive. Don't give your friend the time to spend all that money on the BCs.
I would suggest that you go through some of your replays and identify when your friend is weak before 15 min. What is he/she building apart from the BCs? It can't be that much.
Generally speaking, Terran can defend two bases with relatively few units for a long time (until swarm is done), but if you say that you're both rather slow then I'm sure you'll find weak spots. There must be phases where your friend has defenses up that you can beat with mass-something, ling/hydra/lurker/muta.
Also, if Terran is just passively teching and building BCs and you know it's coming, you could just take 4-5 bases, macro up like crazy and mass him to death. But you said speed is an issue so I guess you'd struggle to manage a big economy.
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Hydra + Defiler with Swarm + Plague kills any amount of BCs any time. If you think he can reparir those with SCVs then understand it will take him 2min to do so so you have time to add 3 expos and build another 50 hydras lol.
Make sure to have enough defilers in bases / over the map to keep plaguing the BC. Basicially once plagued the BC have to go back home.
Alternatively just make 12 devourers + muta (make sure devourers connect 1st)
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If Zerg got tech, BC's are extremely weak. Once you get defiler+plague+consume, you could potentially kill all BC's with 1 hydra and swarm when they have 1 HP.
 Defiler
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the thread title sounds like a Chuck Tingle book
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On May 18 2020 09:44 Veky wrote:
Hi everyone,
I play as Zerg against friend of mine that is Terran.
We are both noobs okay, we don't play against other people, just against each other.
What maps do you play? And are you playing no rush cause 20 BCs take a long time to build ina normal game..
This is the problem really. BCs take a long time to research/build so your best bet is to kill them before he's able to make it or at least make him focus on making other units so he cannot get BCs that quickly.
They don't get used that much compeitiviely for that reason.
Pound for pound they are quite effective at killing zerg units especially at a low level (when you reach a decent number).
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Thanks to everyone for suggestions!
Will definitely try to speed up, see what I can do with Mutas and add more expos.
Plague on the other hand does not lower Battlecruiser health to 1hp like it does to Marines for example.
Instead it lowers them to around 50% of their total hp, and it takes time for Plague to lower it that down..,its not instant like it is with Marines.
But will try to make more of Defilers, only thing that frustrates me with Zerg is amount of Gas they need for their units.
On top of building Mutas, additional cost is needed to build Devourers or Guardians. All money and effort in building them just to watch them die by single Irradiate..
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What maps do you play? And are you playing no rush cause 20 BCs take a long time to build ina normal game..
This is the problem really. BCs take a long time to research/build so your best bet is to kill them before he's able to make it or at least make him focus on making other units so he cannot get BCs that quickly.
They don't get used that much compeitiviely for that reason.
Pound for pound they are quite effective at killing zerg units especially at a low level (when you reach a decent number).
Well, we play Eye of the storm or Beltway mostly, but when I try to rush him early he defend himself with bunker or mines as at that moment I don't have upgrade for Overlord speed..
I noticed even when I cover lings with Dark Swarm, they die from Siege Tanks or he put Irradiate on few of them (Irradiate apparently can be cast on units under dark swarm).
I know I could kill those tanks with Broodlings, but God this game is so hard when you are slow :D
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On May 19 2020 02:02 Veky wrote:
Thanks to everyone for suggestions!
Will definitely try to speed up, see what I can do with Mutas and add more expos.
Plague on the other hand does not lower Battlecruiser health to 1hp like it does to Marines for example.
Instead it lowers them to around 50% of their total hp, and it takes time for Plague to lower it that down..,its not instant like it is with Marines.
But will try to make more of Defilers, only thing that frustrates me with Zerg is amount of Gas they need for their units.
On top of building Mutas, additional cost is needed to build Devourers or Guardians. All money and effort in building them just to watch them die by single Irradiate..
No it drains by 300 HP, BC will have 200 HP left, but the charm with Defiler is consume ability making you able to re-plague the BC's whenever they reach 300 HP, that will make them 1 HP.
However as KogeT said, no one with plagued BC's would keep attacking, they would fall back and heal most likely in your skill lvl. An expert would most likely try to quickly finish the game even though their plagued with momentum. Trying to bash your army quickly so you have no defense left, this is where Swarm comes handy as that nullifies his ability to kill your army just that, quickly.
Dont underestimate Defilers. Hot tip 
At non-expert lvl Burrowing Defilers here and there might work wonders too, to randomly plague armies.
About Swarm: Yes a Tank in Siege can kill stuff under swarm but only with its splash, it doesnt hit directly but just infront of your unit. A burrowed lurker under Swarm wont get damaged by splash though but by direct hit (he aims at a ling that is behind your burrowed lurker making the shot land ontop of lurker = Direct hit)
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Push his natural with swarm + lurkers, there's no way he has enough to defend if he is rushing BCs.
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Honestly, if your opponent can get 15 BC by 15 mins, and you can't kill him before then, then that just means he is so far ahead of you in skill, that there is no advice that can help you beat him. He got to have 3 mining bases and 3 starports extremely early. He could do anything and you will still lose.
Also, no replay.
On May 18 2020 09:44 Veky wrote:
Many times I wonder what Jaedong or Shine would do if their Terran opponent mass that many Battlecruisers, as I haven't seen any pro ZvT game where that situation happened. You do see Battlecruisers in pro games ZvT, usually when the T has enough science vessels going SK terran using 2 BC to divert attention to a close Z base, but by the time a terran has 4 BC on the map, the game is already decided one way or another. Zerg usually spots it coming and either splits 6 scourge into each BC, build spores or defiler. Terran never masses BC deliberately as that's a lot of resources doing nothing and doing nothing gets your expansions killed. The real question you should be asking is why your opponent can mass so many BC without decisively losing. You watch pro games, so it should be simple enough for you to copy some sort of standard build and then crush his ridiculously risky mass BC rush strat.
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replay would be nice but also, dont forget you can drop right on his siege tanks if he goes for vultures + tanks.
oh and wraith with their cloak abillity get revealed when plagued
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You should upload some replays.
They should be in a file path like: C:\Users\[your username]\Documents\StarCraft\Maps\Replays\AutoSave
You can also search your computer for "AutoSave" to find it. Then go to bwreplays.com and click the "Upload" button in the top right. You can also drag files from your computer directly to the bwreplays page on your browser. A link to the replay will appear at the top of the page. Copy and paste that link to here, like so:
http://bwreplays.com/qqweh
Now other users will be able to download your replay and watch it at their own pace. I hope that helps.
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On May 19 2020 02:02 Veky wrote:
Thanks to everyone for suggestions!
Will definitely try to speed up, see what I can do with Mutas and add more expos.
Plague on the other hand does not lower Battlecruiser health to 1hp like it does to Marines for example.
Instead it lowers them to around 50% of their total hp, and it takes time for Plague to lower it that down..,its not instant like it is with Marines.
But will try to make more of Defilers, only thing that frustrates me with Zerg is amount of Gas they need for their units.
On top of building Mutas, additional cost is needed to build Devourers or Guardians. All money and effort in building them just to watch them die by single Irradiate..
As a Zerg, keep practicing the art of Plague, as it is ridiculously strong.
On May 19 2020 00:21 Crunchums wrote:
the thread title sounds like a Chuck Tingle book
lol
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Bah, you realize that you wont win by destroying Bcs... This is a classic case of not seeing the real goal because of to many BCs trees... Yeah, BCs look shiny, big and full of energy, but to be honest energy takes ages to get, they are big and slow and you will never win the game because of destoying infintive BCs...
To win the game you need to destroy all Buidlings of the opponent or he/she/it needs to leave...
Of course your struggle with gas, for zerg you need it for basicly everthing and if you go for all tech and every unit you will not have anything left for any particle unit...
Not even on fastess possible map you can go for everthing, so dont even think about going for it on normal maps ...
If he goes for same strategy everytime, exploit his/her/its weakness from the start...
For BCs he needs to go full tech tree to the end ...
CC-> Barracks>Factory>Starport>Science Facility>Science Faciltiy add- on for Bcs (name doent come to me right now)> and he needs starport add-on + ressources+ yamato upgrade -> 400minerals and 300 gas per BC ... let that sink in 400 fucking minerals with 300 fucking gas ... 5,3 hydras + more than 150 gas for you ... with same ammount ...
If you cant mico well... Mass unit and a+mass unit/selected group and attack ... if he has some tanks ... Mass lings + hydras no need for defiller ... you dont need to wait for some special units... just take some bases and mass and go ... 9-12 drones per base and go ... one strategy not 100 ...
you cant defend ? make some sunken be it at entrances, at minerals against drop... Try to use strategies,, tactics, buidlings or whatever that reduce you attention so you can use it for usefull stuff ... you are slow? raillypoint of minerals than select all workers on minerals and shift click on all minerals here and than -> all workers that are not mining will go mining on the clicked mineral( remember to not select gas mining workers, if not they will also go to mine minerals ) .
IF Base has around 9 - 15 workers it becomes building for soldiers, mages ... Try to use screen hotkeys -> one place for all or many of your army making hatcheries... rallypoint on place so you just use your screenhotkeys F2-f4 and your army is ther ready to attack ... shift+ F2-F4 to save screenplace... try to hotkey your army making hatcheries and know your unitmaking hotkeys ... so you can while you doing something else go fast for example 5 + your unit while you doing something else like spreading overlords or whatever... you can use screenplaces also for your worker making hatcheries ... until you dont need any workers anymore ...
Put your priorities right... What is the most important right now ?
And the most important thing of all
USE BURROW some lings at his entrance, ambush fucking stupid BCs ... lure him with some overlords his fleet comes your hydras are ready like 25 or whatever depending on his army size ... BCs are over burrowed hydras ... Surprise mf piece of priek Terran ... How doesi t feel to lose your stupid BCs army in 5 seconds ? trying to flee? hahahah To slow and dead ... He is defending and you cant break ? No need to get feel fear Take hole map ... Use burrow to not let him expand ... Send one overlord to or so suicide into his base to see what he is doing ... have them spread around the map ... overproduce them if you have some minerals to spare...
He makes anti air? You can also go Dark swarm + mass hydras ...
Ultralisk with some lings are also good...
Most import have 3-4 gas you will need it ... Zerg needs gas ...
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On May 22 2020 02:12 Leonix wrote:
USE BURROW some lings at his entrance, ambush fucking stupid BCs ...
It sounds like you also have stumbled into this Mass BC issue lol
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On May 22 2020 02:12 Leonix wrote:
Bah, you realize that you wont win by destroying Bcs... This is a classic case of not seeing the real goal because of to many BCs trees... Yeah, BCs look shiny, big and full of energy, but to be honest energy takes ages to get, they are big and slow and you will never win the game because of destoying infintive BCs...
To win the game you need to destroy all Buidlings of the opponent or he/she/it needs to leave...
Of course your struggle with gas, for zerg you need it for basicly everthing and if you go for all tech and every unit you will not have anything left for any particle unit...
Not even on fastess possible map you can go for everthing, so dont even think about going for it on normal maps ...
If he goes for same strategy everytime, exploit his/her/its weakness from the start...
For BCs he needs to go full tech tree to the end ...
CC-> Barracks>Factory>Starport>Science Facility>Science Faciltiy add- on for Bcs (name doent come to me right now)> and he needs starport add-on + ressources+ yamato upgrade -> 400minerals and 300 gas per BC ... let that sink in 400 fucking minerals with 300 fucking gas ... 5,3 hydras + more than 150 gas for you ... with same ammount ...
If you cant mico well... Mass unit and a+mass unit/selected group and attack ... if he has some tanks ... Mass lings + hydras no need for defiller ... you dont need to wait for some special units... just take some bases and mass and go ... 9-12 drones per base and go ... one strategy not 100 ...
you cant defend ? make some sunken be it at entrances, at minerals against drop... Try to use strategies,, tactics, buidlings or whatever that reduce you attention so you can use it for usefull stuff ... you are slow? raillypoint of minerals than select all workers on minerals and shift click on all minerals here and than -> all workers that are not mining will go mining on the clicked mineral( remember to not select gas mining workers, if not they will also go to mine minerals ) .
IF Base has around 9 - 15 workers it becomes building for soldiers, mages ... Try to use screen hotkeys -> one place for all or many of your army making hatcheries... rallypoint on place so you just use your screenhotkeys F2-f4 and your army is ther ready to attack ... shift+ F2-F4 to save screenplace... try to hotkey your army making hatcheries and know your unitmaking hotkeys ... so you can while you doing something else go fast for example 5 + your unit while you doing something else like spreading overlords or whatever... you can use screenplaces also for your worker making hatcheries ... until you dont need any workers anymore ...
Put your priorities right... What is the most important right now ?
And the most important thing of all
USE BURROW some lings at his entrance, ambush fucking stupid BCs ... lure him with some overlords his fleet comes your hydras are ready like 25 or whatever depending on his army size ... BCs are over burrowed hydras ... Surprise mf piece of priek Terran ... How doesi t feel to lose your stupid BCs army in 5 seconds ? trying to flee? hahahah To slow and dead ... He is defending and you cant break ? No need to get feel fear Take hole map ... Use burrow to not let him expand ... Send one overlord to or so suicide into his base to see what he is doing ... have them spread around the map ... overproduce them if you have some minerals to spare...
He makes anti air? You can also go Dark swarm + mass hydras ...
Ultralisk with some lings are also good...
Most import have 3-4 gas you will need it ... Zerg needs gas ...
terrrible advice. BCs and tanks shred hydraling.
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My friend started killing Terrans when he copied a Lurker bust build order from a Jaedong replay. He wasn’t very good, he just followed the build order and started winning instead of losing.
Like people said, if T has 15 BCs, your problem is waaay upstream from that. Find a way to kill them early (copy and practice an aggressive build order), and if that also doesn’t work, they may be a lot more skilled than you.
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EPT
