|
Hi everyone,
I play as Zerg against friend of mine that is Terran.
We are both noobs okay, we don't play against other people, just against each other.
So what frustrates me so much that I had to open this topic is:
How the hell do you counter mass Battlecruisers as a ZERG ??
What friend of mine does is - He mass 15 Battlecruisers by the first 15 min of the game, and he send them to destroy my latest expansions.
Spore colonies he destroys insta with Yamato gun, so no talk about them doing anything for my defense.
The rest of the Yamato gun he saves to kill my Defilers or eventually Devourers if I build them.
If I come with my Hydralisks these Battlecruisers kill them easily as most of the expansions on almost any map are smaller than naturals - which means Hydralisks come in line instead of all together - easy target for Battlecruisers.
If i protect Hydralisks with Dark Swarm no big deal - Battlecruisers go away and I cant catch them even with Queen's Ensnare as expansions are divided by river or something else that stops my ground units from catching them (at least they are in maps that we play like "Eye of the storm" or "Beltway".)
If I go with my hydralisks to the other side where Battlecruisers retreat, they all die as hydralisks are relatively squishy.
On the other hand Plague does not do that much damage to Battlecruisers, and many times he has SCV to repair them when they retreat.
So Hydras and Defilers are only ground anti air unit solutions.
Lets see Zerg air solutions:
If I decide to mass Mutalisks, well first of all - they are expensive with Gas.
Even if I manage to get enough of gas at the time when he has that many Battlecruisers, Mutalisks are not so powerfull without Devourers to support them.
Devourers ask for additional Gas, and they are not that hard to kill, specially when he saves Yamato gun for them, and believe me - with 15-20 Battlecruisers he has enough of Yamato!
Even if Battlecruisers are not able to defend themselves, he has Science Vessels to support them with Shield and Irradiate which he saves for my expensive Devourers in case he didn't use Yamato already.
And if Battlecruisers and Science Vessels are not enough - He always has 2-3 VALKYRIES behind, so Mutalisks have no chance anyway.
Scourges are useless as soon as there are at least 5 Battlecruisers as they snip them instantly, and I am talking about 15-20 Battlecruisers.
Now I know that your first thought might be - you are too slow.
And I agree, I wont try to hide that as I am in fact slow, but I wonder what advice can I get?
Many times I wonder what Jaedong or Shine would do if their Terran opponent mass that many Battlecruisers, as I haven't seen any pro ZvT game where that situation happened.
Actually I don't understand why Terran players don't use that strategy against Zerg, as obviously Terran air units are stronger than Zerg air units, and I didn't even mention Wraiths which with their Cloak ability can cause additional troubles to Zerg.
Thanks for reading
|
|
|
A replay would be very helpful.
Plague is good, hydras as well (keep up your upgrades). Also battlecruisers are slow, you should habe way more bases than him so when he attacks one counter attack somewhere else : drop him, hit his natural, anything really.
|
What srj wrote seems like the apparent solution. Be more aggressive. Don't give your friend the time to spend all that money on the BCs.
I would suggest that you go through some of your replays and identify when your friend is weak before 15 min. What is he/she building apart from the BCs? It can't be that much.
Generally speaking, Terran can defend two bases with relatively few units for a long time (until swarm is done), but if you say that you're both rather slow then I'm sure you'll find weak spots. There must be phases where your friend has defenses up that you can beat with mass-something, ling/hydra/lurker/muta.
Also, if Terran is just passively teching and building BCs and you know it's coming, you could just take 4-5 bases, macro up like crazy and mass him to death. But you said speed is an issue so I guess you'd struggle to manage a big economy.
|
Hydra + Defiler with Swarm + Plague kills any amount of BCs any time. If you think he can reparir those with SCVs then understand it will take him 2min to do so so you have time to add 3 expos and build another 50 hydras lol.
Make sure to have enough defilers in bases / over the map to keep plaguing the BC. Basicially once plagued the BC have to go back home.
Alternatively just make 12 devourers + muta (make sure devourers connect 1st)
|
If Zerg got tech, BC's are extremely weak. Once you get defiler+plague+consume, you could potentially kill all BC's with 1 hydra and swarm when they have 1 HP.
 Defiler
|
the thread title sounds like a Chuck Tingle book
|
On May 18 2020 09:44 Veky wrote:
Hi everyone,
I play as Zerg against friend of mine that is Terran.
We are both noobs okay, we don't play against other people, just against each other.
What maps do you play? And are you playing no rush cause 20 BCs take a long time to build ina normal game..
This is the problem really. BCs take a long time to research/build so your best bet is to kill them before he's able to make it or at least make him focus on making other units so he cannot get BCs that quickly.
They don't get used that much compeitiviely for that reason.
Pound for pound they are quite effective at killing zerg units especially at a low level (when you reach a decent number).
|
Thanks to everyone for suggestions!
Will definitely try to speed up, see what I can do with Mutas and add more expos.
Plague on the other hand does not lower Battlecruiser health to 1hp like it does to Marines for example.
Instead it lowers them to around 50% of their total hp, and it takes time for Plague to lower it that down..,its not instant like it is with Marines.
But will try to make more of Defilers, only thing that frustrates me with Zerg is amount of Gas they need for their units.
On top of building Mutas, additional cost is needed to build Devourers or Guardians. All money and effort in building them just to watch them die by single Irradiate..
|
What maps do you play? And are you playing no rush cause 20 BCs take a long time to build ina normal game..
This is the problem really. BCs take a long time to research/build so your best bet is to kill them before he's able to make it or at least make him focus on making other units so he cannot get BCs that quickly.
They don't get used that much compeitiviely for that reason.
Pound for pound they are quite effective at killing zerg units especially at a low level (when you reach a decent number).
Well, we play Eye of the storm or Beltway mostly, but when I try to rush him early he defend himself with bunker or mines as at that moment I don't have upgrade for Overlord speed..
I noticed even when I cover lings with Dark Swarm, they die from Siege Tanks or he put Irradiate on few of them (Irradiate apparently can be cast on units under dark swarm).
I know I could kill those tanks with Broodlings, but God this game is so hard when you are slow :D
|
On May 19 2020 02:02 Veky wrote:
Thanks to everyone for suggestions!
Will definitely try to speed up, see what I can do with Mutas and add more expos.
Plague on the other hand does not lower Battlecruiser health to 1hp like it does to Marines for example.
Instead it lowers them to around 50% of their total hp, and it takes time for Plague to lower it that down..,its not instant like it is with Marines.
But will try to make more of Defilers, only thing that frustrates me with Zerg is amount of Gas they need for their units.
On top of building Mutas, additional cost is needed to build Devourers or Guardians. All money and effort in building them just to watch them die by single Irradiate..
No it drains by 300 HP, BC will have 200 HP left, but the charm with Defiler is consume ability making you able to re-plague the BC's whenever they reach 300 HP, that will make them 1 HP.
However as KogeT said, no one with plagued BC's would keep attacking, they would fall back and heal most likely in your skill lvl. An expert would most likely try to quickly finish the game even though their plagued with momentum. Trying to bash your army quickly so you have no defense left, this is where Swarm comes handy as that nullifies his ability to kill your army just that, quickly.
Dont underestimate Defilers. Hot tip 
At non-expert lvl Burrowing Defilers here and there might work wonders too, to randomly plague armies.
About Swarm: Yes a Tank in Siege can kill stuff under swarm but only with its splash, it doesnt hit directly but just infront of your unit. A burrowed lurker under Swarm wont get damaged by splash though but by direct hit (he aims at a ling that is behind your burrowed lurker making the shot land ontop of lurker = Direct hit)
|
Push his natural with swarm + lurkers, there's no way he has enough to defend if he is rushing BCs.
|
Honestly, if your opponent can get 15 BC by 15 mins, and you can't kill him before then, then that just means he is so far ahead of you in skill, that there is no advice that can help you beat him. He got to have 3 mining bases and 3 starports extremely early. He could do anything and you will still lose.
Also, no replay.
On May 18 2020 09:44 Veky wrote:
Many times I wonder what Jaedong or Shine would do if their Terran opponent mass that many Battlecruisers, as I haven't seen any pro ZvT game where that situation happened. You do see Battlecruisers in pro games ZvT, usually when the T has enough science vessels going SK terran using 2 BC to divert attention to a close Z base, but by the time a terran has 4 BC on the map, the game is already decided one way or another. Zerg usually spots it coming and either splits 6 scourge into each BC, build spores or defiler. Terran never masses BC deliberately as that's a lot of resources doing nothing and doing nothing gets your expansions killed. The real question you should be asking is why your opponent can mass so many BC without decisively losing. You watch pro games, so it should be simple enough for you to copy some sort of standard build and then crush his ridiculously risky mass BC rush strat.
|
replay would be nice but also, dont forget you can drop right on his siege tanks if he goes for vultures + tanks.
oh and wraith with their cloak abillity get revealed when plagued
|
You should upload some replays.
They should be in a file path like: C:\Users\[your username]\Documents\StarCraft\Maps\Replays\AutoSave
You can also search your computer for "AutoSave" to find it. Then go to bwreplays.com and click the "Upload" button in the top right. You can also drag files from your computer directly to the bwreplays page on your browser. A link to the replay will appear at the top of the page. Copy and paste that link to here, like so:
http://bwreplays.com/qqweh
Now other users will be able to download your replay and watch it at their own pace. I hope that helps.
|
On May 19 2020 02:02 Veky wrote:
Thanks to everyone for suggestions!
Will definitely try to speed up, see what I can do with Mutas and add more expos.
Plague on the other hand does not lower Battlecruiser health to 1hp like it does to Marines for example.
Instead it lowers them to around 50% of their total hp, and it takes time for Plague to lower it that down..,its not instant like it is with Marines.
But will try to make more of Defilers, only thing that frustrates me with Zerg is amount of Gas they need for their units.
On top of building Mutas, additional cost is needed to build Devourers or Guardians. All money and effort in building them just to watch them die by single Irradiate..
As a Zerg, keep practicing the art of Plague, as it is ridiculously strong.
On May 19 2020 00:21 Crunchums wrote:
the thread title sounds like a Chuck Tingle book
lol
|
Bah, you realize that you wont win by destroying Bcs... This is a classic case of not seeing the real goal because of to many BCs trees... Yeah, BCs look shiny, big and full of energy, but to be honest energy takes ages to get, they are big and slow and you will never win the game because of destoying infintive BCs...
To win the game you need to destroy all Buidlings of the opponent or he/she/it needs to leave...
Of course your struggle with gas, for zerg you need it for basicly everthing and if you go for all tech and every unit you will not have anything left for any particle unit...
Not even on fastess possible map you can go for everthing, so dont even think about going for it on normal maps ...
If he goes for same strategy everytime, exploit his/her/its weakness from the start...
For BCs he needs to go full tech tree to the end ...
CC-> Barracks>Factory>Starport>Science Facility>Science Faciltiy add- on for Bcs (name doent come to me right now)> and he needs starport add-on + ressources+ yamato upgrade -> 400minerals and 300 gas per BC ... let that sink in 400 fucking minerals with 300 fucking gas ... 5,3 hydras + more than 150 gas for you ... with same ammount ...
If you cant mico well... Mass unit and a+mass unit/selected group and attack ... if he has some tanks ... Mass lings + hydras no need for defiller ... you dont need to wait for some special units... just take some bases and mass and go ... 9-12 drones per base and go ... one strategy not 100 ...
you cant defend ? make some sunken be it at entrances, at minerals against drop... Try to use strategies,, tactics, buidlings or whatever that reduce you attention so you can use it for usefull stuff ... you are slow? raillypoint of minerals than select all workers on minerals and shift click on all minerals here and than -> all workers that are not mining will go mining on the clicked mineral( remember to not select gas mining workers, if not they will also go to mine minerals ) .
IF Base has around 9 - 15 workers it becomes building for soldiers, mages ... Try to use screen hotkeys -> one place for all or many of your army making hatcheries... rallypoint on place so you just use your screenhotkeys F2-f4 and your army is ther ready to attack ... shift+ F2-F4 to save screenplace... try to hotkey your army making hatcheries and know your unitmaking hotkeys ... so you can while you doing something else go fast for example 5 + your unit while you doing something else like spreading overlords or whatever... you can use screenplaces also for your worker making hatcheries ... until you dont need any workers anymore ...
Put your priorities right... What is the most important right now ?
And the most important thing of all
USE BURROW some lings at his entrance, ambush fucking stupid BCs ... lure him with some overlords his fleet comes your hydras are ready like 25 or whatever depending on his army size ... BCs are over burrowed hydras ... Surprise mf piece of priek Terran ... How doesi t feel to lose your stupid BCs army in 5 seconds ? trying to flee? hahahah To slow and dead ... He is defending and you cant break ? No need to get feel fear Take hole map ... Use burrow to not let him expand ... Send one overlord to or so suicide into his base to see what he is doing ... have them spread around the map ... overproduce them if you have some minerals to spare...
He makes anti air? You can also go Dark swarm + mass hydras ...
Ultralisk with some lings are also good...
Most import have 3-4 gas you will need it ... Zerg needs gas ...
|
On May 22 2020 02:12 Leonix wrote:
USE BURROW some lings at his entrance, ambush fucking stupid BCs ...
It sounds like you also have stumbled into this Mass BC issue lol
|
On May 22 2020 02:12 Leonix wrote:
Bah, you realize that you wont win by destroying Bcs... This is a classic case of not seeing the real goal because of to many BCs trees... Yeah, BCs look shiny, big and full of energy, but to be honest energy takes ages to get, they are big and slow and you will never win the game because of destoying infintive BCs...
To win the game you need to destroy all Buidlings of the opponent or he/she/it needs to leave...
Of course your struggle with gas, for zerg you need it for basicly everthing and if you go for all tech and every unit you will not have anything left for any particle unit...
Not even on fastess possible map you can go for everthing, so dont even think about going for it on normal maps ...
If he goes for same strategy everytime, exploit his/her/its weakness from the start...
For BCs he needs to go full tech tree to the end ...
CC-> Barracks>Factory>Starport>Science Facility>Science Faciltiy add- on for Bcs (name doent come to me right now)> and he needs starport add-on + ressources+ yamato upgrade -> 400minerals and 300 gas per BC ... let that sink in 400 fucking minerals with 300 fucking gas ... 5,3 hydras + more than 150 gas for you ... with same ammount ...
If you cant mico well... Mass unit and a+mass unit/selected group and attack ... if he has some tanks ... Mass lings + hydras no need for defiller ... you dont need to wait for some special units... just take some bases and mass and go ... 9-12 drones per base and go ... one strategy not 100 ...
you cant defend ? make some sunken be it at entrances, at minerals against drop... Try to use strategies,, tactics, buidlings or whatever that reduce you attention so you can use it for usefull stuff ... you are slow? raillypoint of minerals than select all workers on minerals and shift click on all minerals here and than -> all workers that are not mining will go mining on the clicked mineral( remember to not select gas mining workers, if not they will also go to mine minerals ) .
IF Base has around 9 - 15 workers it becomes building for soldiers, mages ... Try to use screen hotkeys -> one place for all or many of your army making hatcheries... rallypoint on place so you just use your screenhotkeys F2-f4 and your army is ther ready to attack ... shift+ F2-F4 to save screenplace... try to hotkey your army making hatcheries and know your unitmaking hotkeys ... so you can while you doing something else go fast for example 5 + your unit while you doing something else like spreading overlords or whatever... you can use screenplaces also for your worker making hatcheries ... until you dont need any workers anymore ...
Put your priorities right... What is the most important right now ?
And the most important thing of all
USE BURROW some lings at his entrance, ambush fucking stupid BCs ... lure him with some overlords his fleet comes your hydras are ready like 25 or whatever depending on his army size ... BCs are over burrowed hydras ... Surprise mf piece of priek Terran ... How doesi t feel to lose your stupid BCs army in 5 seconds ? trying to flee? hahahah To slow and dead ... He is defending and you cant break ? No need to get feel fear Take hole map ... Use burrow to not let him expand ... Send one overlord to or so suicide into his base to see what he is doing ... have them spread around the map ... overproduce them if you have some minerals to spare...
He makes anti air? You can also go Dark swarm + mass hydras ...
Ultralisk with some lings are also good...
Most import have 3-4 gas you will need it ... Zerg needs gas ...
terrrible advice. BCs and tanks shred hydraling.
|
My friend started killing Terrans when he copied a Lurker bust build order from a Jaedong replay. He wasn’t very good, he just followed the build order and started winning instead of losing.
Like people said, if T has 15 BCs, your problem is waaay upstream from that. Find a way to kill them early (copy and practice an aggressive build order), and if that also doesn’t work, they may be a lot more skilled than you.
|
Sounds like he could be a lot better than you and is messing with you.Maybe post a replay if you can.
|
Bisutopia19201 Posts
Does he build turrets and tanks?
If he skips turrets do a mass doom drop in his main with lurkers.
The noob way however is this:
If he skips tanks and doesn't wall, then rush all your ling research and mass lings. BCs can only shoot one thing at a time and a hundred lings running into their base will certainly get you to win condition faster. I also doubt that he scouts well and tries to kill of your expansions. Try to make your hatcheries at as many different mineral lines as possible. BCs are slow and it will take him a long time to travel to each base.
|
On May 21 2020 10:01 ninazerg wrote:You should upload some replays. They should be in a file path like: C:\Users\[your username]\Documents\StarCraft\Maps\Replays\AutoSave You can also search your computer for "AutoSave" to find it. Then go to bwreplays.com and click the "Upload" button in the top right. You can also drag files from your computer directly to the bwreplays page on your browser. A link to the replay will appear at the top of the page. Copy and paste that link to here, like so: http://bwreplays.com/qqwehNow other users will be able to download your replay and watch it at their own pace. I hope that helps.
I followed your guide and here is upload
http://bwreplays.com/atjij
Thanks for everyone with your tips..
Its painful how much gas Zerg need, specially if I build complete army which consists of different units
Different units such as muta, hydra, defiler, queen, devourer...I mean to beat Battlecruisers I need these types of units.
I improved a little bit with use of F2,F3 and F4, but friend of mine is on same level like me, he is not using these and our apm is same - around 70.
|
Now you you posted a replay:
What you think about balance is meaningless. You could had just spammed hydras and beat your friend that way. In fact that might be a good way to train yourself.
I've never played that map before, but there's something wrong with two of the drones mining on that map on your side. Don't know if you can fix it, but you never even tried to alter the pathfinding and tell that drone on the bottom right minerals to move a bit more to the left before mining again which would had fixed it. You can't have gotten tired of "Fighting Spirit" so play that map instead so you can familiarise yourself with one of the most famous and most played maps. Circuit Breaker is pretty good too.
You went 8 gas into nothing. This is not an opener.
2 seige tanks and a bunker. Was all he had for the first 11 minutes of the game.
15 mins he had "only" 6 BC.
Exaggeration doesn't help you get the advice you need. The biggest difference between you and your friend is that your friend has an aim and you don't. Even if that aim was get 12 BC and go attack. And with that he think you think he was overwhelming you. All the advice formerly given assumed that you have at least hundreds of more hours than you have ever played. But don't worry, we all were noobs once. Improvement can be easy and rapid at your stage. First step is recognising that you know nothing.
Portal:Beginners
Read this website and get your friend to read it. Also read Category:ZvT Builds and get your friend to read Category:TvZ Builds. At the very least memorise an opening build order and practice doing it and you'll find that you improved yourself.
I recommend starting with the least complicated ones and go from 5 pool to 7 pool, 9 pool, 12 pool, 12 hatch, Hatch gas pool, 2 hatch lurker, 3 hatch lurker at the end. If you want you can also go mutas instead of lurkers.
For your friend he should try out Barracks Barracks Supply, Sparks Terran, 1Rax FE, Ayumi build, +1 5 Rax, TvZ 9 Minute Push, SK Terran in order of difficulty. Since he seems to like BC, he can easily adapt SK terran to make BC instead of science vessels.
Maybe not the play the early ones at the same time though as one will decisively counter the other, but learning that way is a good way to see the relationship between units, economy and expanding. Also note that you can often take later CC at like 20 supply to be safer from Zerg, and in the case of Zerg, the first lings can be placed in front of the terran base or middle of map to make creep colonies or morph sunkens for defence.
|
On May 23 2020 05:46 Veky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2020 10:01 ninazerg wrote:You should upload some replays. They should be in a file path like: C:\Users\[your username]\Documents\StarCraft\Maps\Replays\AutoSave You can also search your computer for "AutoSave" to find it. Then go to bwreplays.com and click the "Upload" button in the top right. You can also drag files from your computer directly to the bwreplays page on your browser. A link to the replay will appear at the top of the page. Copy and paste that link to here, like so: http://bwreplays.com/qqwehNow other users will be able to download your replay and watch it at their own pace. I hope that helps. I followed your guide and here is upload http://bwreplays.com/atjijThanks for everyone with your tips.. Its painful how much gas Zerg need, specially if I build complete army which consists of different units Different units such as muta, hydra, defiler, queen, devourer...I mean to beat Battlecruisers I need these types of units. I improved a little bit with use of F2,F3 and F4, but friend of mine is on same level like me, he is not using these and our apm is same - around 70.
Okay, neat!
There are a ton of things I could say about this particular replay, but I don't want to blast you with tons of advice all at once. Instead, I want to give you a few simple concepts that you can build upon as you play more StarCraft.
Investments pay for armies, not savings - In your original post, you mentioned that you felt like you didn't have enough vespene gas. When I watched the replay, I saw that the first building you built was a vespene geyser, and I would guess that you felt like you needed it in order to start saving up gas early on. Not a bad idea! Sometimes, it's good to save up money, but another hidden resource is time. As you play the game, every second that goes by, your enemy is also building their base and their army. If they have more income than you, then they can build more army than you.
What you want to think about early in the game is how you can invest your money so you can have more (or equal) income than your opponent. If you watch the replay yourself, you'll see there are times when you have thousands of minerals but very little gas. That's your cue to send a drone to go build a base at a new location with vespene gas. As you play a lot more games, you'll have a better idea of when to take a new base well before you have a shortage of resources. The drones mining minerals will also need to eventually have a new location to mine from, and it's important to set up a new base location before your minerals are almost gone, or even completely gone.
You definitely want to think about how you can increase your income rather than stockpiling money.
Scouting - Everyone will tell you that you need to scout the map out. Sending units to explore will clue you in on what you need to do and possible adjustments that you need to make. There are a limited number of strategic possibilities for your opponent, and you need to mentally eliminate some of those possibilities, so you don't find yourself trying to prepare for everything possible.
In this case, the mini-map is going to help you a lot. If you have trouble seeing enemies, you can change the mini-map colors with shift+tab so all enemy units are red on the mini-map.
There are many, many ways to scout, but most of your scouting is going to come from overlords and zerglings. There are many locations where overlords can hover over without fear of being hit from the ground. If you think your opponent is going to build air units, you can research Pneumatized Carapace at your lair, which will greatly increase the speed of your overlords, so they can escape from danger.
Zerglings are good for scouting because of their low cost, and their high speed. One thing you need to look for is whether or not your opponent has left their base. Placing a zergling outside of their entrance will let you know if the opponent is still inside their base, or leaving. If the opponent is building a lot of air units, you may need to place zerglings around the opponent's base to spot for air units leaving their base.
You don't need everything at once - When you play against a particular unit type or combo of unit types, you need to have a response that makes the most of the limited time and income that you have. Your response to battlecruisers in the game you played was to get spore colonies, scourge, mutalisks, queens, defilers, hydralisks -- all while mining from only two extractors. Doing this, you will have a little bit of everything, but never enough of what you need. I'll make two suggestion: First one is to make only hydralisks and a few defilers. Second suggestion is to get double spires (like you did), but only make air units. No hydralisks or defilers. You can get everything you want once you have 4 or 5 bases mining minerals and gas for you. Before that, it's going to be difficult to get absolutely every kind of upgrade and unit that you want.
If you go with a ground-based army against a battlecruiser fleet, you'll want to build a nydus canal between your farthest base, and where your main base is rallying units to. This will make it easier to jump your units to the other side of the map. If you are scouting the map by putting zerglings around, you'll know where the battlecruisers are going, and the nydus canal will make it easier to get there. You need at least two evolution chambers to get your ranged attack and carapace to match the battlecruiser upgrades.
If you go with an air-based force against a battlecruiser fleet, you're going to want to build a large number of devourers to combat the battlecruisers. You'll need two spires to match the upgrades of the battlecruiser fleet. Devourers are not gas-heavy. To transform a mutalisk into a devourer costs 150 minerals and only 50 gas. The total cost per devourer is 250 minerals, and 150 gas for each mutalisk and transformation. You will probably need to have 3-4 bases to pay for the cost of this, but 24 devourers will definitely kill 12 battlecruisers unless you don't upgrade your units and don't get the irradiated ones away from the healthy ones.
|
United States1434 Posts
tbh I'd just mass scourge. And I mean like 100+ scourge. Can't overdo the scourge really, and I mean it. Then control group and do 1a2a3a4a5a, and then box select the rest of the scourge and attack move a location on the minimap where BCs are. Box scourges and attack move them repeatedly until all scourge are used. Try to make them a bit spread out if you can spare the attention. Then make a ton more scourge to probably clean up the remnants. It's the most cost effective way to deal with BCs. And just mass tons of hydra w/ all of the leftover excess minerals you'll get. Scourges alone though are more than enough to make it work.
You could be fancy and go defiler swarm to protect hydras or go plague, but just sticking to armies that use only one or two units with no spellcasting and need for good positioning and foresight and only need a-move might be more better for your level. Key is to just have a metric crap ton of shit, whatever you make. Don't try being cutesy. And again, the key to winning is just have a ton of shit, and more shit than your opponent, which is really the way you win games in StarCraft. Also, don't be afraid to just lay down 4, even 5, 8? hatcheries all at once when that money gets big if that's what it takes for you to make sure your money is spent, because ultimately, that is better than having only 3 bases and 3 hatcheries and 3000+ money.
![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/5/5c/Divine_Wind.gif)
It's all in the scourge
Also in your replay like others have mentioned, you don't seem to have a handle of basic mining optimization and resource management. What you want to do in games is not think from a "He might attack me any time now, I need some defenses now in case that happens" mindset. You want to actually get away with as much as you humanly can so that you get ahead in resources and have more than your opponent. Ideally, you make as little defense as needed, and maximize your economy through pumping out tons of drones. Can't really overdo the drones.
What does as little defense look like? I guess that's hard, but I'd recommend starting out to try to be as greedy as you can be, like, super naughty greedy. Just really pump out the drones thinking of how disgustingly greedy you're being. You might think, wow, you just made what feels like 30 drones, but don't stop there, because you're gonna make 100 more right now. And you won't have even made a single bit of defense. Really just test that out, push those boundaries, feel that taste of freedom of wow i have way more resources way earlier than I'm used to having.
The difference between good and bad resource management early game can easily mean the difference between having 5,000 minerals 10 minutes sooner as opposed to ten minutes later, and that much more resources you're gonna have in comparison to your opponent. I'm exaggerating and oversimplifying to make a point, but that's the difference making four drones, instead of two sunken colonies can make within the first 3 minutes of play since those two drones gets you more money, lets you afford drones sooner, those drones mine more stuff and let you get more money faster for other drones/army...get that third base even faster, etc so that 10 minutes later, damn, you're really rich.
So my 3 points are basically:
1) Have primarily tons of scourge, and a couple hydra to beat BCs
2) Make 4, even 6+ Hatcheries placed in your main/1st base all clumped together so you spend your money. Ctrl+click larvae so you have 12 larvae selected at a time, or box them optionally if it's allowed.
3) Have better resource management, i.e., instead of making those spore colonies and sunkens, instead invest into drones, and don't be afraid to be too greedy. That way you'll have WAY more (think upwards of 5,000) minerals and gas than you normally would have at any point in time which means a much bigger army than the usual. That's 200 more lings than you normally would have. Wow.
|
In my mind, you have two always-good options:
1. Plague
2. Mass scourge
I would recommend plague.
I remember one of my first games back to broodwar I had a zvt game with mass bc's. I was focusing so much on taking expansions I didn't notice that he was making them. When I noticed, I started making scourge/hydras/defilers. At that point it was him just trying to get rid of defilers using irradiate (sci vessel spell), then coming in with bc's. It worked surprisingly well for him for a couple of engagements. I did eventually get a plague off. After that it was a *lot* easier.
I know you said the bc's yamato your defilers. That spell takes a while to fire; you should be able to cast plague if they can cast yamato. In addition, dark swarm with hydras can hold off bc's if he gets an irrad. or is about to snipe your defiler. Use this to buy time for another defiler to hatch/get there or reinforce with hydras.
Plague is a good response because you should always have defilers vs terran imo. When everything is one hp, send in some mutas to destroy everything.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
