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Germany1302 Posts
Hey TL,
I probably typed and deleted this post several times because it feels like this does not really justify as "strategy" but maybe still has some ideas for me. I was never really good at this game, play at about 100APM and despite this only play Terran since the game came out. Being my age I enjoy playing 3v3 and 4v4 games and I realized only recently, that I have never researched what a Terran is supposed to do in this kind of games. If you go mech the game might very well be over before you get anything, if you go marines versus zealots and lings those are also pretty useless until you get a decent number or medics. I'll not even go into 6-8 player games always ending up with "very high latency" setting reducing your options to micro marines and vultures to almost zero. Going through this cycle of thoughts always leaves me with the conclusion that I should play Z or P in those games and being stubborn with my only argument to still play T. But here we go, maybe there is actually a decent argument and strategy for T that someone can share with me? Open for anything from buildorders to general nostalgia discussion to coaching :-P
Thanks / sorry!
Chosi
PS: I play regular maps, not fastest or anything.
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Just to clarify are you playing regular hunters or BGH and if neither exactly what maps are you playing? The reason I ask is because walling in can be very important as T in 3v3.
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Germany1302 Posts
I play Hunters or BGH or regular 8 player maps. Also I need to point out I play with random EU people and most of the time there is little or no communication or combined strategy.
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The first 5 minutes as terran can be very scary in team games, especially if you cant communicate with your ally. Learn a good wall in and go 2 fact (3 fact if bgh) vultures with mines. Either have a scv patrolling the map or have 2 scvs behind the depot to repair. If youre even a few seconds late on that repair you'll get busted. Against zerg you will want to start first rax in main 2nd rax at wall If youre in a spawn where the marine will pop outside of the wall. Bio is a viable option against zerg opponents. I personally dont like walling in at the 12 on bgh or hunters because its so easy to harass the scv there so ill build sim city with bunker in the main. Once you have mines start pushing out and containing opponents. Holding the middle is important in 3v3.
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Germany1302 Posts
Problem seems to me that it's rather easy to survive as terran since most of the times the enemies just ignore you and go for a zerg or toss in your team. And I sit in my main and wait for my vultures to pop out when my first ally leaves the game. At that point I might or even should be able to leverage my advantage and beat win 2v3 and punish their rush builds. But often i am not good enough and it's not what I hope for in a game. So I go at least 2 rax bio every game, most of the time with no wall and rather a bunker close to my cc so I can even participate in the game before it's over. 3v3 and 4v4 are most often won by the more decisive and aggressive team, since you hardly defent a rush from 3 players or even 4.
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At a low level the strategy is pretty different and I would agree with what Kid said. 2 fact vultures is very strong in 3v3 and will probably make your teammates a lot happier than if you opened with a bio build. If you open with vultures and each game is turning into a 2v3... one of the three happened:
A: your doing your build inefficiently (which is an easy fix)
B: your allies don't know how to wall/micro/build static defense (which there is nothing you can do about)
C: your enemies are all opening with really aggressive builds like 6 pool/99gate/8rax (which means you need to be good enough to win the 2v3 versus low economy opponents)
If you want an opening that allows you to help your allies early game you can try 8 rax or some sort of 2 barracks build (without academy). You can transition these into either bio or mech based on what you think will work better. It will be difficult though because you will have to micro well (which is very fun when you get good at it!) and if you mess up and engage an enemy at the wrong time they will kill your little marine army very easily. One of the issues with terran is that marines are weak in small numbers which makes it very hard to protect your allies during the early part of the game. Based on your issue though, I think you will have a lot more fun doing one of these openings...unless the latency defeats you!
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On April 19 2020 15:27 puppykiller wrote:
At a low level the strategy is pretty different and I would agree with what Kid said. 2 fact vultures is very strong in 3v3 and will probably make your teammates a lot happier than if you opened with a bio build. If you open with vultures and each game is turning into a 2v3... one of the three happened:
A: your doing your build inefficiently (which is an easy fix)
B: your allies don't know how to wall/micro/build static defense (which there is nothing you can do about)
C: your enemies are all opening with really aggressive builds like 6 pool/99gate/8rax (which means you need to be good enough to win the 2v3 versus low economy opponents)
If you want an opening that allows you to help your allies early game you can try 8 rax or some sort of 2 barracks build (without academy). You can transition these into either bio or mech based on what you think will work better. It will be difficult though because you will have to micro well (which is very fun when you get good at it!) and if you mess up and engage an enemy at the wrong time they will kill your little marine army very easily. One of the issues with terran is that marines are weak in small numbers which makes it very hard to protect your allies during the early part of the game. Based on your issue though, I think you will have a lot more fun doing one of these openings...unless the latency defeats you!
I'd like to add support to the 2 Barracks opener. It makes for convenient walling setups close to your CC (in situations where walling your choke is suboptimal, or you just like having the freedom to go in and out without the hassle) and you can add a Bunker if you feel you are likely to get rushed (if you are 12 Terran and have Zergs at 11 and 1, for example - in this case, if you were going to choke wall, you likely need two Barracks anyway, one just for walling but unable to produce because the Marines spawn out to your opponents).
Opting to open for 2 Barracks production allows you to help your allies pressure opponents in the early game, particularly if there is a Terran on the other team that walled their choke, or if you can get behind a Zerg's mineral line outside of the range of Sunken colonies. Can even place a Bunker in those situations, sometimes.
After that, going into mech or biomech is situational, as puppykiller mentioned above. Bio really struggles against P/T-heavy teams in the mid-lategame, but if there are two Zergs it may be worthwhile. Either way, Siege Tanks should always enter your composition because of how much space they control in the choke-heavy and imbalanced mineral spawns of Hunters maps (being able to shell mineral lines over water in some locations, even from your main if you are at 9 and enemy is at 11/12 trying to take their nat, for example).
Overall, I've found 2 Barracks MnM play into biomech into full mech to be a very enjoyable way to play; I picked it up from an ICCup player named superpizza who used to do really well against my team of friends.
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On April 21 2020 00:20 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2020 15:27 puppykiller wrote:
At a low level the strategy is pretty different and I would agree with what Kid said. 2 fact vultures is very strong in 3v3 and will probably make your teammates a lot happier than if you opened with a bio build. If you open with vultures and each game is turning into a 2v3... one of the three happened:
A: your doing your build inefficiently (which is an easy fix)
B: your allies don't know how to wall/micro/build static defense (which there is nothing you can do about)
C: your enemies are all opening with really aggressive builds like 6 pool/99gate/8rax (which means you need to be good enough to win the 2v3 versus low economy opponents)
If you want an opening that allows you to help your allies early game you can try 8 rax or some sort of 2 barracks build (without academy). You can transition these into either bio or mech based on what you think will work better. It will be difficult though because you will have to micro well (which is very fun when you get good at it!) and if you mess up and engage an enemy at the wrong time they will kill your little marine army very easily. One of the issues with terran is that marines are weak in small numbers which makes it very hard to protect your allies during the early part of the game. Based on your issue though, I think you will have a lot more fun doing one of these openings...unless the latency defeats you! I'd like to add support to the 2 Barracks opener. It makes for convenient walling setups close to your CC (in situations where walling your choke is suboptimal, or you just like having the freedom to go in and out without the hassle) and you can add a Bunker if you feel you are likely to get rushed (if you are 12 Terran and have Zergs at 11 and 1, for example - in this case, if you were going to choke wall, you likely need two Barracks anyway, one just for walling but unable to produce because the Marines spawn out to your opponents). Opting to open for 2 Barracks production allows you to help your allies pressure opponents in the early game, particularly if there is a Terran on the other team that walled their choke, or if you can get behind a Zerg's mineral line outside of the range of Sunken colonies. Can even place a Bunker in those situations, sometimes. After that, going into mech or biomech is situational, as puppykiller mentioned above. Bio really struggles against P/T-heavy teams in the mid-lategame, but if there are two Zergs it may be worthwhile. Either way, Siege Tanks should always enter your composition because of how much space they control in the choke-heavy and imbalanced mineral spawns of Hunters maps (being able to shell mineral lines over water in some locations, even from your main if you are at 9 and enemy is at 11/12 trying to take their nat, for example). Overall, I've found 2 Barracks MnM play into biomech into full mech to be a very enjoyable way to play; I picked it up from an ICCup player named superpizza who used to do really well against my team of friends.
But is 2 rax bio really that much faster at helping friends compared to 2 fact vults? I mean u still need to build the academy and research range and stim in order to be useful, the same way a vult build needs to research mines and speed for vults. So there is significant delay due to the teching up in both builds, the only advantage is that u need 2 production buildings (the 2 rax) instead of 3 (1 rax + 2 facts)
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On April 21 2020 03:06 att wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2020 00:20 Jealous wrote:On April 19 2020 15:27 puppykiller wrote:
At a low level the strategy is pretty different and I would agree with what Kid said. 2 fact vultures is very strong in 3v3 and will probably make your teammates a lot happier than if you opened with a bio build. If you open with vultures and each game is turning into a 2v3... one of the three happened:
A: your doing your build inefficiently (which is an easy fix)
B: your allies don't know how to wall/micro/build static defense (which there is nothing you can do about)
C: your enemies are all opening with really aggressive builds like 6 pool/99gate/8rax (which means you need to be good enough to win the 2v3 versus low economy opponents)
If you want an opening that allows you to help your allies early game you can try 8 rax or some sort of 2 barracks build (without academy). You can transition these into either bio or mech based on what you think will work better. It will be difficult though because you will have to micro well (which is very fun when you get good at it!) and if you mess up and engage an enemy at the wrong time they will kill your little marine army very easily. One of the issues with terran is that marines are weak in small numbers which makes it very hard to protect your allies during the early part of the game. Based on your issue though, I think you will have a lot more fun doing one of these openings...unless the latency defeats you! I'd like to add support to the 2 Barracks opener. It makes for convenient walling setups close to your CC (in situations where walling your choke is suboptimal, or you just like having the freedom to go in and out without the hassle) and you can add a Bunker if you feel you are likely to get rushed (if you are 12 Terran and have Zergs at 11 and 1, for example - in this case, if you were going to choke wall, you likely need two Barracks anyway, one just for walling but unable to produce because the Marines spawn out to your opponents). Opting to open for 2 Barracks production allows you to help your allies pressure opponents in the early game, particularly if there is a Terran on the other team that walled their choke, or if you can get behind a Zerg's mineral line outside of the range of Sunken colonies. Can even place a Bunker in those situations, sometimes. After that, going into mech or biomech is situational, as puppykiller mentioned above. Bio really struggles against P/T-heavy teams in the mid-lategame, but if there are two Zergs it may be worthwhile. Either way, Siege Tanks should always enter your composition because of how much space they control in the choke-heavy and imbalanced mineral spawns of Hunters maps (being able to shell mineral lines over water in some locations, even from your main if you are at 9 and enemy is at 11/12 trying to take their nat, for example). Overall, I've found 2 Barracks MnM play into biomech into full mech to be a very enjoyable way to play; I picked it up from an ICCup player named superpizza who used to do really well against my team of friends. But is 2 rax bio really that much faster at helping friends compared to 2 fact vults? I mean u still need to build the academy and research range and stim in order to be useful, the same way a vult build needs to research mines and speed for vults. So there is significant delay due to the teching up in both builds, the only advantage is that u need 2 production buildings (the 2 rax) instead of 3 (1 rax + 2 facts)
You can help with just Marines to bust down Terran Depot + Barracks, well before they have Vultures or you have Academy. Same applies to putting Marines in a Bunker behind a mineral line. This works best if you have P/Z allies and they are rushing one of the opponents. You can build a Bunker at home to defend.
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T in 3V3 bgh relies more on their allies early game than any other race. If you have a pz ally you basically need them to make units ASAP and gain early presence on the map while you either get vultures or MM. a TTT team is usually doomed from the start due to them being separated and 3v1’d before you can get any momentum. T can be very powerful if your allies are competent enough to let you tech quickly and get mines on the map to isolate the protoss or Zerg player. I would recommend mines over MMs unless you’re against a double Zerg or triple Zerg team
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TLADT24920 Posts
Haven't had a chance to read all the replies, but from my very limited experience, I say go for what you want but make sure to get support from your allies early on because it's pretty easy to die as a Terran in the early game in 3v3/4v4 team games lol. I personally prefer bio to mech so opening 2 raxs and getting a bunker asap (depends on what the enemy+allies spawn as) seems like a must.
My only reference: + Show Spoiler +https://tl.net/blogs/521684-br-3v3-with-intotherainbow-and-2pacalypse-pt-1
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EPT
