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ImTerribleAtBW
4 Posts
-3 gate goon allin -2 gates forward at their wallin, zealots -1 base reaver drop, scouted it last on 4 player map -mass speedlings behind sunken, couldn't scout it, no drones made past 9 -2 hatch muta multiple games What am I supposed to do? I can't even make a tank or a mine in ANY of these games. I'm getting cheesed out before I can do anything. It's honestly infuriating and depressing that I can't get anything resembling a non-allin stomp. | ||
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whaski
Finland576 Posts
On April 05 2020 00:01 ImTerribleAtBW wrote: I honestly want to quit this game. I play Terran and I've literally been 1-base allin-ed 6 consecutive games. I use 1-rax expand in every match-up, here's what I faced: -3 gate goon allin -2 gates forward at their wallin, zealots -1 base reaver drop, scouted it last on 4 player map -mass speedlings behind sunken, couldn't scout it, no drones made past 9 -2 hatch muta multiple games What am I supposed to do? I can't even make a tank or a mine in ANY of these games. I'm getting cheesed out before I can do anything. It's honestly infuriating and depressing that I can't get anything resembling a non-allin stomp. Rax fe is risky in TvT and TvP. Maybe you should learn bunker expand in TvP? It is most common in sponsored games? Or maybe even siege expand? TvZ rax fe 2 rax academy is pretty much what you play against Zerg. Maybe you should give replay so someone like KogeT can help you. | ||
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whaski
Finland576 Posts
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WGT-Baal
France3343 Posts
You should probably provide a (or several) replay(s). (And read the rulea for strategy posts, but you re new so i ll ignore that for now) If you do not fully know what to do to defend, i d suggest checking out the simple question/ simole answer thread, read liquipedia for terran strategies and look up day9's youtube series about bw, which explain the usual flow of each match up amd shows example games. 2 hatch mutas isnt all-in at all, it s very standard actually. Reaver play of one base before expand is also a safe protoss build. For the others i d say your wall was bad. Hard to say without a replay. Is your build done correctly? Scouting? Expanding isnt free, it s not like sc2. Lots of 1 base openings are standard in bw as well. Terran has good 1 base pushes in tvp too for example. Also, any win is good, there is nothing dirty about an all-in. Learning to defend better will also be beneficial to you. In ladder (i assume this is ladder games) the point is to win, doesn't matter how it s done. You re gonna lose a lot of games to a lot of weird things, and it s ok. That s how you learn. Good luck | ||
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ImTerribleAtBW
4 Posts
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ImTerribleAtBW
4 Posts
I guess I'll just take later expands in all matchups, try to get more units before I move down the ramp. | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3343 Posts
On April 05 2020 00:19 ImTerribleAtBW wrote: Yes, I do realize 2 hatch muta isn't an all-in from 1 base, but it's one of the fastest rushes Zerg can use. It's definitely less all-in than the mass speedling behind a sunken colony... I guess I'll just take later expands in all matchups, try to get more units before I move down the ramp. 2 hatch mutas hit you around 6mins, so you should have plenty of time for expo+def. Get turrets  But sometimes you also need to realise the main reason you lost to the allin wasn't that the allin was great, but it was that you messed up your own build (macro wise usually) | ||
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whaski
Finland576 Posts
On April 05 2020 00:19 ImTerribleAtBW wrote: Yes, I do realize 2 hatch muta isn't an all-in from 1 base, but it's one of the fastest rushes Zerg can use. It's definitely less all-in than the mass speedling behind a sunken colony... I guess I'll just take later expands in all matchups, try to get more units before I move down the ramp. Well here is one + Show Spoiler + tvp- bunker FE vs standard 9 depo 11 rax 12 gas 13 scout (N search) 15 depo(with rax scv) @88 gas -2 scv 17 factory-> start marine (total 3, 2 if cross pos) 22 CC (low ground)+ add on + 1 gas (2 on gas) /// 23 CC if 3 marine 23 bunker /// after depo if 3 marine 24 depo+1 gas (total 3) 27 aca -2nd tank checkpoint- 32 armory @2nd tank 2nd gas @ 2nd tank 38 2x scan asap 2nd factory +1 when armory done siege mode after 2nd factory scan @ 7 minute (first goliath) - 3 gate=not reaver - 2 gate=cannot rule out reaver 3rd cc starport @ 50% +1+ebay (~72) After 4 goliaths-> 3rd factory, start vulture science facility @ 100% starport+ 2nd armory Vulture speed after 3rd save up gas for 9 factories as soon as gas allows ~~ begin building depo 3 at a time, produce 8 vulture, 1 tank constantly) After 9 factory built->add on+vessel After vessel->mine upgrade push out as vessel pops, 4th and 5th cc, +1 addon And here is tutorial from the guy who knows how terran works... | ||
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Cryoc
Germany909 Posts
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Piste
6167 Posts
Maybe try a bit safer build like a fac expand. Also, if you are not able to scout, have an scv at your opponents choke to see when he comes out and generally just play a bit safer unless you feel like taking risks. If your scv gets sniped, send out another one right away. | ||
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kogeT
Poland2031 Posts
I don't think this is a good build to start with vs T/P Also, I think there is much more cheese at lower lvls off MMR, so playing safe should be usually better. | ||
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Highgamer
1399 Posts
As others have mentioned, you just picked the "wrong" build for a 1350 points player or let's just say a more difficult build. 1Rax-FE can be made much safer but that requires good scouting/game sense and quite a bit of micro/multi-tasking at times. I'd reserve that for later. Beginner-friendly safe builds in TvP and TvT generally include instant marine-production (up to at least 2-3) to fend of cheese, and a factory and some units from it before attempts to go down the ramp. In TvP, if you don't have good enough marine- and SCV-micro against zealots yet, then you're only really safe with a zealot-tight wall. For that matchup I'd learn siege-expo (with wall) and FD ("FakeDouble") and explore the corresponding defensive reactions before moving on to a more economic opening like 1RaxFE. Both these builds allow you to play very safe by siegeing/mining up your natural before you expand, adding a bunker and turrets if needed against shuttle-play/DTs. TvT is being played quite aggressively these days from what I can tell, so at least 1Factory-Expand or even 2Factory-openings would be good to start off I assume. In TvZ, if you can't wall off ling-tight, then the usual 1rax-FE has it's problems against early-pools or speedling-allins, but you can learn to solve the problems. To be safe, scout with 2 SCVs (one at 11 supply, the second shortly before the barracks finishes building), build your CC inside your main as a rule of thumb and float it to the natural, read/watch about how to defend 9pool, and immediatelly build a bunker when you move down the ramp and keep your marines close to the ramp (to block run-bys). Against 2hatch-muta, you can scout that Zerg might be going for it with your SCV (lair starting very early on 2 hatch; seeing the spire; you can also tell by the timing of the 2nd gas but I'm not an expert on that). If you have to suspect that it's 2hatch-muta, then you build your engineering-bay after 2nd rax and academy, and add at least 2 turrets in each mineral-line and at your barracks (total of 6) for the first wave, bring your marines to defend, and keep building turrets. Your goal is just to survive and damage the mutas until you have enough marine&medic to move out. This game is brutal to learn (but awesome to master), your ladder-opponents will be better than you for quite a while, they will rush you because you're a beginner - so you better learn to shake off any (understandable) frustration about losing-streaks. Start every game with the intent to win or survive as long as possible (but no late gg-timing), but be at ease with another loss due to your lack of experience. If a day on ladder is too much to handle then better just take a break. Things will look very differently with a day or even a few hours to calm down. | ||
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Jealous
10107 Posts
> Surprised that you get rushed. Lol. Aggro > Greedy > Safe/Standard > Aggro. It's a strategy game. | ||
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llIH
Norway2142 Posts
I would recommend learning to defend the cheese and then going with more greedy builds as you learn the game more. There are plenty of good advice above. | ||
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blackmanpl
63 Posts
bw has a very high learning curve, right now the entry level is, pretty much brutal. Pick protoss for start, it's a race for novice players in brood war, you will start winning some games with that. What is your apm? | ||
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Highgamer
1399 Posts
On April 05 2020 05:57 blackmanpl wrote: @1350mmr you probably lack the necessary control and understanding. bw has a very high learning curve, right now the entry level is, pretty much brutal. Pick protoss for start, it's a race for novice players in brood war, you will start winning some games with that. What is your apm? I say don't pick Protoss, not for that reason. | ||
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oshibori_probe
United States2932 Posts
Good luck to you OP. | ||
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puppykiller
United States3126 Posts
If it makes you feel better, you should know that eventually you can get really good at fighting cheese and even have a huge advantage facing it. | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2220 Posts
On April 05 2020 00:01 ImTerribleAtBW wrote: -3 gate goon allin -2 gates forward at their wallin, zealots -1 base reaver drop, scouted it last on 4 player map -mass speedlings behind sunken, couldn't scout it, no drones made past 9 -2 hatch muta multiple games all of these happen even at very high level of play. 6 games in a row is kinda bad luck tho. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On April 05 2020 00:01 ImTerribleAtBW wrote: Don't 1-rax expand every matchup? Scout better. Most of those aren't even cheese.I honestly want to quit this game. I play Terran and I've literally been 1-base allin-ed 6 consecutive games. I use 1-rax expand in every match-up, here's what I faced: -3 gate goon allin -2 gates forward at their wallin, zealots -1 base reaver drop, scouted it last on 4 player map -mass speedlings behind sunken, couldn't scout it, no drones made past 9 -2 hatch muta multiple games What am I supposed to do? I can't even make a tank or a mine in ANY of these games. I'm getting cheesed out before I can do anything. It's honestly infuriating and depressing that I can't get anything resembling a non-allin stomp. -3 gate goon allin: You are going to have to scout better. keep scv in thier base for as long as possible. Build front bunker, repair and get range or build tank as soon as possible. -2 gates forward at their wallin, zealots: Cheese. You need to simcity with the rax and CC and depot to survive. Micro marines away from zealot and divide them.. -1 base reaver drop, scouted it last on 4 player map. You should have been able to scout it in time. Since you are dying to cheese, maybe adapt and send out a second SCV as soon as the first SCV scouts an empty position. Both SCV should then arrive at the two last position at the same time. -mass speedlings behind sunken, couldn't scout it, no drones made past 9: Have an SCV in their base. That sunken hurts the speedling rush massively. Camera hotkey your ramp and react to pull scvs in front of ramp and marines behind. -2 hatch muta multiple games: This isn't a cheese, it's completely standard. Only becomes an all-in if the Zerg decides to stick to mutas and thinks he can finish you off and never drones up. It's 100% scoutable and scannable. Build turrets and don't stop building turrets if the Z keeps destroying turrets. The pros could have something like 16 turrets aginst an all-in 2 base muta to defeat it. | ||
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