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Active: 635 users

PvT Revolution? 29 Arbiter build

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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KAGA100MAN
Profile Joined October 2017
12 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-15 05:35:17
November 06 2018 02:24 GMT
#1
Yesterday flash showed a really cool pvt build on his streaming channel. The build is basically getting the first arbiter really quick and going for an unbelievably early recall attack

What do you think about this build?.

Flash's gameplay:


The build order:
8 pylon
9 gas
11 gate (start mining gas with 3 probes)
14 core
15 pylon (at the corner of your base)
20 citadel (at the corner pylon, make goon right after core finish)
21 pylon (send scouting probe, goon at ramp)
23 stargate, templar archives (make stargate a little bit faster if you seek perfection)
26 nexus at nat
29 arbiter tribunal, make dt
29 ~ 35
send dt to terran base, dt is for restraining FD type rush from terran, not aiming for a kill. if you see terran is prepared for a dt (they should), just stay back.

35 arbiter
39 goon (2nd goon)
49〜53 add 4 gateways
after you got the first arbiter, make the 2nd arbiter asap,
research goon range, zealot speed, and recall,
pump zealots&goons from 5 gateways.

send arbiter to terran base when arbiter have ~125 energy

9:30 RECALL & GG

Hard counter : BBS, 1fac1star, 2fac 7rax
detail (korean) in https://www.ygosu.com/community/real_article/st1/148059/?page=0&frombest=Y

***UPDATE***

Many vods about 29 arbiter build have been uploaded this week!

Flash's new 29 arbiter build "29 arbiter build ver 1.111" :
+ Show Spoiler +

The difference from original build:
1: hide 2nd pylon outside the base and build cidedal there.
2: research air attack upgrade and make early 3rd pylon for camouflage
3: make forge right after start making 1st arbiter, make cannon at mineral lines if vult drop is a possibility.
4: if dt sees a sign of early aggression from terran, research stasis first.




Flash's lecture to beat 29 arbiter build:
+ Show Spoiler +




Flash's first encounter to 29 arbiter build:
+ Show Spoiler +




Best:
+ Show Spoiler +




Nalra:
+ Show Spoiler +




Rain:
+ Show Spoiler +


badpenny
Profile Joined August 2018
Canada54 Posts
November 06 2018 02:29 GMT
#2
when i first read the title i thought this would be a Moataz thread
Yanokabo
Profile Joined October 2018
268 Posts
November 06 2018 03:31 GMT
#3
Don’t like it for a more skilled opponent. Flash makes it look easy on this noobie but this would die to a 2 fac so hard. And t should see it coming a mile away and this opponent had no army or defenses and the recall really isn’t that fast to where Terran should have so little. Nice stasises though. Surprise and getting building kills are important in this game to help flash win.
castleeMg
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
Canada760 Posts
November 06 2018 04:23 GMT
#4
more of a meme build for the fans, it seems way too flimsy early game... he did it against a 1800 terran, flashes mechanics are insane alone he probably coulda done anything vs this guy and won tbh...
AKA: castle[eMg]@USEast/ iCCup
TheBrochette
Profile Joined July 2018
67 Posts
November 06 2018 04:45 GMT
#5
Thx for the share! As said this build should be weak overrall but could be fun to try
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
November 06 2018 06:39 GMT
#6
I feel like we've seen this thread before.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2268 Posts
November 06 2018 07:51 GMT
#7
On November 06 2018 15:39 ninazerg wrote:
I feel like we've seen this thread before.


ya and the OP was bullied arround
StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
Kurao
Profile Joined April 2018
215 Posts
November 06 2018 08:24 GMT
#8
I think this is more of a fun build than an actually viable one, although it's hilarious that it's FlaSh that showcases these builds for Protoss.

Also, not quite sure where this stemmed from but I remember seeing a stream vod of him getting recall-rushed quite early in TvP, so maybe he wanted to try it out?
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2037 Posts
November 06 2018 09:03 GMT
#9
Peru national build.
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
ortseam
Profile Joined April 2015
996 Posts
November 06 2018 10:48 GMT
#10
Isn't this the Stove without a scout?
Highgamer
Profile Joined October 2015
1407 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-06 13:56:01
November 06 2018 11:21 GMT
#11
On November 06 2018 18:03 kogeT wrote:
Peru national build.


This.

If you learned the game in the past few years on Iccup it was quite common to face this kind of play, not only but seemingly mainly from south-americans.

They figured out that an (early) arbiter in itself causes a lot of problems for any not-so-high-level-Terran and that you can almost always get away with it behind the DT. Of course a good Terran can defend and punish this but, I find, on low/mid-level (or with high skill-difference like Flash vs that guy) the fast arbiter is relatively harder to deal with, similar to how a lot of cheeses or mass-X-strategies can work on lower levels but not against pros.

The build gives you not only the threat of a recall early on but also invis and stasis soon after for regular engagements in case Terran is prepared for the recall. If you cannot recall as soon as you have the arbiter with enough energy you just expand once or twice while increasing army and arbiter count, keeping Terran occupied with multiple recall-attempts.
Additionally, should Terran find the time and cool to push out, armies with arbiters are just generally harder to deal with, more so if Terran is operating from only 2 base and is not maxed, having only few vessels without many EMPs. Chances are high you will get the one good engagement you need in this situation.
The initial DT will force many over-reactions, too, in that specific situation, and so will the threat of the recall.
If Terran stays calm and also takes a 3rd at the right time it can become a normal game, but with more arbiters than usual and the constant pressure of recalls during Terran's macro-phase and during the big push.

There are answers for Terran to all this but they're surely harder to find than to just learn that build and rely on the relative imba that arbiters are on a certain level. (sorry, it's he sourness talking)
Dazed.
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3301 Posts
November 06 2018 17:24 GMT
#12
seems like a slightly flimsier and faster variant of dt expand into 2 base arbiter. very abusive style but you my as well go for the more stable variant
Never say Die! ||| Fight you? No, I want to kill you.
Moopower
Profile Joined May 2017
128 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-08 23:56:25
November 08 2018 23:55 GMT
#13
How come corsair/goon hasn't been a viable strategy since 05? I know siege tanks can move out of the web but if you land a few good ones you can really let your army survive alot longer to deal damage while tanks are moving away. The main reason why you have to get a lot of zealots to suicide is to counteract the siege tank splash damage, but if you take away a good amount of tanks from the equation even a few seconds can be crucial to snowball army advantage of who wins the fight. Corsair can land d-web more consistently and often since the corsair itself is much faster to reproduce and they are quicker than an arbiter so you can dodge EMPs better, although you'd have to spread out your sairs to make sure they don't clump.

I'm thinking just a fleet of 6-8 corsairs that are kept alive and dweb every engagement you're ready for another one usually. Then the rest you can get goons and a fewer zealots than normal when the d-webs expire.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42607 Posts
November 09 2018 03:47 GMT
#14
On November 09 2018 08:55 Moopower wrote:
How come corsair/goon hasn't been a viable strategy since 05? I know siege tanks can move out of the web but if you land a few good ones you can really let your army survive alot longer to deal damage while tanks are moving away. The main reason why you have to get a lot of zealots to suicide is to counteract the siege tank splash damage, but if you take away a good amount of tanks from the equation even a few seconds can be crucial to snowball army advantage of who wins the fight. Corsair can land d-web more consistently and often since the corsair itself is much faster to reproduce and they are quicker than an arbiter so you can dodge EMPs better, although you'd have to spread out your sairs to make sure they don't clump.

I'm thinking just a fleet of 6-8 corsairs that are kept alive and dweb every engagement you're ready for another one usually. Then the rest you can get goons and a fewer zealots than normal when the d-webs expire.

1 emp and the game is over.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
TaardadAiel
Profile Joined May 2017
Bulgaria750 Posts
November 09 2018 08:44 GMT
#15
On November 09 2018 08:55 Moopower wrote:
How come corsair/goon hasn't been a viable strategy since 05? I know siege tanks can move out of the web but if you land a few good ones you can really let your army survive alot longer to deal damage while tanks are moving away. The main reason why you have to get a lot of zealots to suicide is to counteract the siege tank splash damage, but if you take away a good amount of tanks from the equation even a few seconds can be crucial to snowball army advantage of who wins the fight. Corsair can land d-web more consistently and often since the corsair itself is much faster to reproduce and they are quicker than an arbiter so you can dodge EMPs better, although you'd have to spread out your sairs to make sure they don't clump.

I'm thinking just a fleet of 6-8 corsairs that are kept alive and dweb every engagement you're ready for another one usually. Then the rest you can get goons and a fewer zealots than normal when the d-webs expire.

Very mechanically intensive, protoss army scales badly Vs Terran and this is basically useless supply when not dwebing, EMP screws you over big time. Some reasons off the top of my head.
WriterReV hwaiting!
Yanokabo
Profile Joined October 2018
268 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-09 23:10:21
November 09 2018 23:08 GMT
#16
If you can split up the corsairs to different control groups the game isn’t over. No reason to bunch vs Terran ground unlike vs muta scourge in pvz. It could still work. Toss haven’t gone far enough out on the diving board of theory. Remember there was a time when people said opening forge first would never work in any matchup and look where we are today.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42607 Posts
November 10 2018 00:26 GMT
#17
It’s not impossible, it’s just worse than alternatives.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
ArmadA[NaS]
Profile Joined January 2014
United States347 Posts
November 10 2018 21:43 GMT
#18
Stork losing with this build lol. If the best PvTer ever loses with it, it's gotta be an awful build. Fun to play around with though.
Moopower
Profile Joined May 2017
128 Posts
November 11 2018 03:50 GMT
#19
I'd say Rain and Snow are better PvTer than Stork. Stork has long been past his prime.
Moopower
Profile Joined May 2017
128 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-11 04:01:57
November 11 2018 03:59 GMT
#20
So waiting on 1 arbiter and getting it EMPed is not game over vs getting 2-3 corsairs getting EMPed? Arbiters barely have any atk value so they are essentially taking up supply just as corsairs would. So for 2 corsairs the wait time to get a couple d-webs vs one stasis I'd argue is much faster time frame. Sure it doesn't disable as long but the effects it has and pros are something to consider.

You obviously would not stack corsairs together, you'd move it in a control group and when you come to engage in a fight, you split them like how zerg players practice muta splitting for irradiates.
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