On April 17 2007 22:17 Reflex] wrote: I overlap hotkeys, for example 1 to 0 will be all hotkeyed to my nexus at the beginning. Then as the game progresses I just hotkey like most of the other people here - 1: scout 2 to 6: gateways, stargates etc etc.
Imo its much easier to remember and refer to them that way.
And btw m3, for most people its much faster to 1d2d3d4d5z6z7z than clicking on each building individually to make units unless you have kor-like hand movements.
i dont play toss or anything, but i was watching some draco fpvods and he does f2/double taps a gate hotkey and clicks each building individually.
On April 30 2007 20:59 OhThatDang wrote: why dont you just...save the screen and press shift + f3 on your gates instead of double pressing 3,3 to get back to gates ?
Personally, I find double tapping much easier and more natural. I usually like to Oov style time my gates by keeping one attached to 4 and checking it, then double tapping to get back and do a round of macro.
Later on when I have tons of gates and units filling my keys, I usually just make my way to my gates manually and macro gets slopy any way since im maxed/fighting a big battle/qeueing up units in a bunch of gates.
Probably not the right way to do it. I should probably pay more attention to pros like Haji does and model after them.
i use 1 and 2 for goons but also have templars and obs mised in with them. then i use 3 for zealots and 4 for shuttles. 5-8 gateways and 9 and 0 for my nexuses. later on in the game if i need it, i overwrite some of my gateway hotkeys to unit hotkeys.
On April 30 2007 20:26 LastRomantic wrote: Really? I think it's much faster to click on buildings and press buttons, because both hands in use.
Also, what happens when you go over 10 gateways :O
no...
you only need to click on gateways when you get past the hotkey amount... and that never happens until your maxed out at 200/200. basically you should be using hotkeys to utilize speed until you HAVE to click. if you think clicking is faster you just suck at using the keyboard.
Im trying to learn starcraft and i played a game against the computer the other day.. my first game Anyway, i tried my best to use as much keys i could.. and i hotkeyed nexus to 9 but i kept hitting "-" and it reduces game speed .. its so annoying lol. So is there any good way to practice? Like keep the hand at a certain spot and keep ur index finger on a certain key so your hand kind of see the keyboard and memorize the location of other keys ? =/
On April 30 2007 20:26 LastRomantic wrote: Really? I think it's much faster to click on buildings and press buttons, because both hands in use.
Also, what happens when you go over 10 gateways :O
no...
you only need to click on gateways when you get past the hotkey amount... and that never happens until your maxed out at 200/200. basically you should be using hotkeys to utilize speed until you HAVE to click. if you think clicking is faster you just suck at using the keyboard.
practice.
How come like 90% of pros are shown in fpvods and during games to click through their production buildings using mouse then...? At least that's what I thought I was seeing.
That\'s because most of their hotkeys are already used -_-;;;
Watch Bisu vs Hwasin in RLT, GOM MSL1. He had hotkeyed about 4 Gateways, but still ended up clicking several Gateways, only because other things were taking up his hotkey space (Nexii, units, Observers, etc.)
On May 12 2007 01:35 ahmadmz wrote: Im trying to learn starcraft and i played a game against the computer the other day.. my first game Anyway, i tried my best to use as much keys i could.. and i hotkeyed nexus to 9 but i kept hitting "-" and it reduces game speed .. its so annoying lol. So is there any good way to practice? Like keep the hand at a certain spot and keep ur index finger on a certain key so your hand kind of see the keyboard and memorize the location of other keys ? =/
well it sounds like your not using all your fingers right. at the start of the game your index finger should always be on p and your middle finger on 0(nexus) with your ring finger on 9(scouting probe)... the thumb rests on control. pop the windows and printer keys out and now you can acess the shift button with your thumb aswell. your hand wont leave this position until you need to make a gateway. practice shifting between the two. your pinky can bounce down to 'b' again for 'build' while still using your index to make pylons. also note in this position you can use your ring finger for 'y' for the core. if you fe you can use your ring finger again for 'n' to make the nexus. the other time you need to move your hand out of this position early is for the gateway, i prefer to use my index on 'b' and my middle on 'g'. making the transition wont be hard with practice.
if you want to master hotkeys you should first map out what every hot key is for that race and then figure out what hotkeys you use at what points in time in the game. i'll admit it's complicated but when i did it it helped my games drastically.
if you struggle to use the hotkeys correctly just play a computer on the slowest setting. watch your hands and watch while you play and study the correct positions to hold them in.
when i watched foru at wcg 2005 his hand moved all over the entire keyboard. at wcg 2006 iloveoov was the same way. They have MASTERED the keyboard and you have to aswell if you want to master starcraft.
On May 12 2007 10:53 Equinox_kr wrote: That\'s because most of their hotkeys are already used -_-;;;
Watch Bisu vs Hwasin in RLT, GOM MSL1. He had hotkeyed about 4 Gateways, but still ended up clicking several Gateways, only because other things were taking up his hotkey space (Nexii, units, Observers, etc.)
On April 30 2007 20:26 LastRomantic wrote: Really? I think it's much faster to click on buildings and press buttons, because both hands in use.
Also, what happens when you go over 10 gateways :O
no...
you only need to click on gateways when you get past the hotkey amount... and that never happens until your maxed out at 200/200. basically you should be using hotkeys to utilize speed until you HAVE to click. if you think clicking is faster you just suck at using the keyboard.
practice.
I'm guessing I can do 3click click z click z click z click d click d faster than I can do 3z4z5z6d7d8d, no matter how much I train the latter. Simply, one of them uses two hands, and the other uses one hand. I suppose I could do 3z4z with both hands, but that's still slow because I have to move my hand back.
I always thought most players had more than 7 gateways well before they get to 200/200. I suppose it's matchup dependent and game dependent.
Plus, even at like 150 supply, I like having most of my units keyed. I prefer macro with mouse and 1a2a3a4a instead of macro with keyboard and unit attacking with mouse.
i'm a zerg player so i don't really know toss, but a good way to learn hotkeys is to download some pro reps and use bwchart to analyze them, it should tell u every hotkey the player used and at what stage of the game, that's how I learned my zerg hotkeys (from non other than savior and july ^^), bwchart is good for many things, and its free, i highly recommand it. ^^
On April 30 2007 20:26 LastRomantic wrote: Really? I think it's much faster to click on buildings and press buttons, because both hands in use.
Also, what happens when you go over 10 gateways :O
no...
you only need to click on gateways when you get past the hotkey amount... and that never happens until your maxed out at 200/200. basically you should be using hotkeys to utilize speed until you HAVE to click. if you think clicking is faster you just suck at using the keyboard.
practice.
I'm guessing I can do 3click click z click z click z click d click d faster than I can do 3z4z5z6d7d8d, no matter how much I train the latter. Simply, one of them uses two hands, and the other uses one hand. I suppose I could do 3z4z with both hands, but that's still slow because I have to move my hand back.
I always thought most players had more than 7 gateways well before they get to 200/200. I suppose it's matchup dependent and game dependent.
Plus, even at like 150 supply, I like having most of my units keyed. I prefer macro with mouse and 1a2a3a4a instead of macro with keyboard and unit attacking with mouse.
are you fucking serious? do you really think that 4d5d6d7d8d9d or 4z5z6z7z8z9z0z is THAT hard to do? when i started practicing it i got incredibly fast in 10 minutes. this is like saying you couldn't learn how to transition intbetween two or three guitar chords with your left hand no mater how much you practiced. and if that's the case... you must be retarded.
if anyone has four fingers and a thumb with their left hand can do what i've just explained. and no... you NEVER bring your hand off the mouse and use both hands on the keyboard. With simple practice you can master any hand combination required in starcraft.
saying you can click fast to produce makes you sound stupid... think about this for a second... if your clicking to produce you have to be watching your mouse cursor while you transition between making dragoons templars zealots and dts.... if your using your hands for macro you can be watching the minimap or checking for other various things like what your food is so you know when to make your next pylons or checking to see that your probes arn't idle.
this is exactly why forigners fucking suck at this game. STOP FUCKING CLICKING WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO. if you really play starcraft all the time (and if you read tl.net then you do) then you should get the dicipline to actually get good at how the game is supposed to be played. if your not using EVERY hotkey on the keyboard (and a shitton of forigners don't) and that includes the f2 f3 f4 keys then i can't even fathom why you would be playing in the first place. If you can't off the top of your head say what every hotkey is for every action with your own race you should be ashamed of yourself (i'm not implying LastRomantic dosn't).
If you don't know this, just go into single player, type the coes in, and start mastering this shit.
this game is more fun when you utilize the keyboard. you have more control over the game. all it takes is practice. Everyone who is reading this look at your keyboard right now. Look at your left shift key. Do you still have the windows and printer keys on your keyboard??... if you do you should feel like a god damn newb. take a pencile and break them off now. With this out of the way you can access shift and ctrl easily no mater what location your hands are on the keyboard.
practice practice practice! if i see another post on this thread with someone telling me that mass clicking is some how more efficent than using hotkey patterns i'm going to upercut my monotor out of sheer frustration. i can do 4d5d6d7d8d9d0d in litterally half a second while still watching the minimap for a terran dropship.
if this keyboard stuff is really that hard to figure out then set a coustom game on slow vs a computer and watch your hands while you play. you'll be amazed at all the keys you could have been accessing easily instead of frantically clicking on shit with your eyes at the bottom right hand of the screen.
at times my girlfriend watches me play. she asked me what i was doing with my left hand when i played. i showed her some simple patterns i follow. after 15 mintues she could go 4d5d6d7d8d9d0 with ease.
I apologize if i sound bitter... but there is a massive missunderstanding in the forigner community about clicking over hotkey usage; also known as "Forigner style," the term koreans use for our excessive amount of clicking, and is looked upon as a joke in korea.
On April 30 2007 20:26 LastRomantic wrote: Really? I think it's much faster to click on buildings and press buttons, because both hands in use.
Also, what happens when you go over 10 gateways :O
no...
you only need to click on gateways when you get past the hotkey amount... and that never happens until your maxed out at 200/200. basically you should be using hotkeys to utilize speed until you HAVE to click. if you think clicking is faster you just suck at using the keyboard.
practice.
I'm guessing I can do 3click click z click z click z click d click d faster than I can do 3z4z5z6d7d8d, no matter how much I train the latter. Simply, one of them uses two hands, and the other uses one hand. I suppose I could do 3z4z with both hands, but that's still slow because I have to move my hand back.
I always thought most players had more than 7 gateways well before they get to 200/200. I suppose it's matchup dependent and game dependent.
Plus, even at like 150 supply, I like having most of my units keyed. I prefer macro with mouse and 1a2a3a4a instead of macro with keyboard and unit attacking with mouse.
are you fucking serious? do you really think that 4d5d6d7d8d9d or 4z5z6z7z8z9z0z is THAT hard to do? when i started practicing it i got incredibly fast in 10 minutes. this is like saying you couldn't learn how to transition intbetween two or three guitar chords with your left hand no mater how much you practiced. and if that's the case... you must be retarded.
if anyone has four fingers and a thumb with their left hand can do what i've just explained. and no... you NEVER bring your hand off the mouse and use both hands on the keyboard. With simple practice you can master any hand combination required in starcraft.
saying you can click fast to produce makes you sound stupid... think about this for a second... if your clicking to produce you have to be watching your mouse cursor while you transition between making dragoons templars zealots and dts.... if your using your hands for macro you can be watching the minimap or checking for other various things like what your food is so you know when to make your next pylons or checking to see that your probes arn't idle.
this is exactly why forigners fucking suck at this game. STOP FUCKING CLICKING WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO. if you really play starcraft all the time (and if you read tl.net then you do) then you should get the dicipline to actually get good at how the game is supposed to be played. if your not using EVERY hotkey on the keyboard (and a shitton of forigners don't) and that includes the f2 f3 f4 keys then i can't even fathom why you would be playing in the first place. If you can't off the top of your head say what every hotkey is for every action with your own race you should be ashamed of yourself (i'm not implying LastRomantic dosn't).
If you don't know this, just go into single player, type the coes in, and start mastering this shit.
this game is more fun when you utilize the keyboard. you have more control over the game. all it takes is practice. Everyone who is reading this look at your keyboard right now. Look at your left shift key. Do you still have the windows and printer keys on your keyboard??... if you do you should feel like a god damn newb. take a pencile and break them off now. With this out of the way you can access shift and ctrl easily no mater what location your hands are on the keyboard.
practice practice practice! if i see another post on this thread with someone telling me that mass clicking is some how more efficent than using hotkey patterns i'm going to upercut my monotor out of sheer frustration. i can do 4d5d6d7d8d9d0d in litterally half a second while still watching the minimap for a terran dropship.
if this keyboard stuff is really that hard to figure out then set a coustom game on slow vs a computer and watch your hands while you play. you'll be amazed at all the keys you could have been accessing easily instead of frantically clicking on shit with your eyes at the bottom right hand of the screen.
at times my girlfriend watches me play. she asked me what i was doing with my left hand when i played. i showed her some simple patterns i follow. after 15 mintues she could go 4d5d6d7d8d9d0 with ease.
I apologize if i sound bitter... but there is a massive missunderstanding in the forigner community about clicking over hotkey usage; also known as "Forigner style," the term koreans use for our excessive amount of clicking, and is looked upon as a joke in korea.
start training now
As zerg I do 0sm9sm8sm7sm6sm5sm4sm very quickly; it's not that hard. It'd be really pointless to click since the hatches are so far away from each other.
However, clicking gates and then pressing the hotkey to make the units seems faster after a certain amount of gates. I mean, you're going to have to click for your gates past your sixth or seventh or whatever anyways.
I never said to click things on the bottom right hand. That is ridiculous and stupid. By clicking I mean clicking on the gateways to go through them quickly. Similarly, you would click on raxes or factories to go through a production round quickly. As far as I know, this is what most progamers use, from watching fpvods. Like when oov is macroing from his six raxes or whatever, he doesn't do 5m6m7m8m9m0m; he clicks through them while pressing m each time.
As for bringing hand off mouse, some progamers actually do that ;; and it doesn't harm their game.
And then you have people like BoxeR who only hotkey like... their first two production buildings. But then he's BoxeR and does whatever the hell he wants.
Incidentally I need to actually use my mouse more ~~ I'm like 40% hotkey T-T
The only thing I don't like about clicking for macro is rally points. Like as zerg, I can 4r5r6r7r8r9r0r pretty easily, but I always wonder what protoss does after like fifteen gates.
On May 13 2007 22:09 LastRomantic wrote: Incidentally I need to actually use my mouse more ~~ I'm like 40% hotkey T-T
The only thing I don't like about clicking for macro is rally points. Like as zerg, I can 4r5r6r7r8r9r0r pretty easily, but I always wonder what protoss does after like fifteen gates.
EPT
