EPT[H]2v2 vs ZZ
| Forum Index > Brood War Strategy |
|
[jOyO]
United States920 Posts
| ||
|
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
| ||
|
akamufu
Korea (South)321 Posts
| ||
|
Judicator
United States7270 Posts
but back to your question, sunk near your drones so you can actually defend with them 2-3 is enough and if your ally can time a few rines over around the same time it makes things much easier for you | ||
|
BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
if you can't survive there is obviously something wrong with your sunken placement or your defensive micro. use your drones to defend. 2 hatches and a pool can make a nice pocket to place a sunk in. | ||
|
-Centaurus-
Russian Federation28 Posts
| ||
|
Blind
United States2529 Posts
| ||
|
DevAzTaYtA
Oman2005 Posts
16 acad 16 refinery 18 depot 2 more rines (or 1 rine 1 scV) 2 bats 2 medics gogogogo | ||
|
DevAzTaYtA
Oman2005 Posts
| ||
|
born-to-porn
Denmark400 Posts
ZZ is considered imbalanced in 2v2 and that is because of the way they can totally dominate the map and divide their opponents from one another, meaning that if one ally needs help and his partner moves out to help him, the two zergs can simply doubleteam this army and rape it. | ||
|
-Centaurus-
Russian Federation28 Posts
| ||
|
CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2709 Posts
SUNKEN PLACEMENT. 12 pool (at least). 2 sunkens. Have your ally scout early to see when you need to start building lings. 1 sunk needs to be in your min line so you can defend it with drones. 1 sunk needs to cover the rest of the area that your primary sunk cannot handle. You need lings to defend this one (it's of course coverd by your other sunk but it's not enough). Don't go overbord with lings and don't be afraid to use drones to defend. One or both of them will expo and there will be muta tech coming. Your T ally should go a rine rusch and must bring *at least* 2 firebats because of lings numbers. At this point I usually choose to slow down my spire and mutas and add at least 1 1/2 group of lings (as many as I can build before T moves out actually) once I have enough drones. If you don't the other team will likely rape the T if he moves out. With lings however you can get up to the front door of the expanding Z and actually have a chance to break the sunks. Just make sure to micro the bats. It should be close. If you get through you basically have the game there but most likely he'll be panicbuilding sunkens and just rallying everything so he'll barely make it. Even without drone kills I consider this to be OK. From now on you have to pressure all the time untill he breaks. Remember that he must get more sunks to def against the new wave of MNM while your mutas are coming at the same time, if he can't get mutas in time you can kill a few drones (you must have spores yourself though) but most probably he'll need a few spores. That leaves his eco severly lacking (2 bases to protect with spores) so he can't power drones and really use his expo. Watch out for scourge tho. Depending on what the other Z did you will either have more lings to figth initially or his eco will kick in eventually (which can be v dangerous). Anyway after the opening the most important thing is to not lose your mutas (rines are a nice safe zone) and not walk into a flank (mutas are nice scouts). Also defend your main base against massive ling raids, I like to keep my lings there untill the marines are almost at the target because they are fast and it keeps you from being GG'd in 5 secs by 4 groups of ling. Otherwise the T "ball of doom" is even nicer with a muta cloud above it. | ||
|
Mortality
United States4790 Posts
Stay alive. You need to stay in the game and absorb the damage from your opponents so your partner can get big quickly. Once your partner has his expo running and 4+ rax with upgraded rines, he will stomp all over the Zergs. Try to keep a more mobile army so if they try to double your partner instead of doubling you then you can help him, but defeintly do make sunkens/spores, but make them ONLY as needed. I've seen retards turtle up too quickly and cost their ally the game. Better to die because of insufficient defense than too much defense, but ideally you don't want to die at all. | ||
|
BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On September 08 2006 02:29 DevAzTaYtA wrote: teh following build will own them: 16 acad 16 refinery 18 depot 2 more rines (or 1 rine 1 scV) 2 bats 2 medics gogogogo you should make the medics first so they can store up some energy  | ||
|
Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On September 08 2006 11:07 BlackJack wrote: you should make the medics first so they can store up some energy Also, if you didn't wall (but you really should wall in 2v2) you can put your two medics on your ramp and tell them to hold position with the marines sitting behind. =D | ||
|
[jOyO]
United States920 Posts
| ||
|
Mortality
United States4790 Posts
You can also consider getting 200 gas at the start and instead of just getting ling speed, get speed + melee attack. This will make it harder for them to just over power you with lings. | ||
|
iNsaNe-
Finland5201 Posts
| ||
|
CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2709 Posts
On September 11 2006 09:43 Mortality wrote: You shouldn't need more than 2 sunkens. You shouldn't really be teching at all though. Instead of going to lair, pull drones from gas after ling speed and if you see them go lair, then get evo. By the time they have mutas up, your partner will be all powered up and will overrun them. You can also consider getting 200 gas at the start and instead of just getting ling speed, get speed + melee attack. This will make it harder for them to just over power you with lings. I disagree. Even a slow tech forces them to consider your airpower. Two decent zerg will crusch almost any terran if they have nothing else to worry about. And considering they have map control they don't. Lings are nice but mutas are the only thing that allows you to keep up with their mobilty. Plus, 12 mutas can bring down 2 spore easily, and building 3 or even 4 is an incredible waste. | ||
|
Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On September 11 2006 11:00 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: I disagree. Even a slow tech forces them to consider your airpower. Two decent zerg will crusch almost any terran if they have nothing else to worry about. And considering they have map control they don't. Lings are nice but mutas are the only thing that allows you to keep up with their mobilty. Plus, 12 mutas can bring down 2 spore easily, and building 3 or even 4 is an incredible waste. Your presence in the game and the fact that resources are more limited with 4 players on a map than with 2 players on a map gives the Terran a considerable advantage over the Zergs. Further, if you waste money on tech, that is money you can't devote to lings. If you can keep your ling power up, then you can use your lings in combination with your partner to keep your opponents from getting any ground advantage. Now they are dependent on mutas, and more than likely at least one of them is still playing off of one base, meanwhile with your ling support and his ever-growing mnm army, your partner can now expand freely to his natural. 2v2 TZ vs ZZ is all about giving your Terran partner the breathing room he needs to become an unstoppable machine. The Zerg opponents want to deny that from happening, but attacking the Terran is usually impossible since the Z on the TZ team is mobile enough to help and since the Terran likely walled, so the ZZ will instead likely focus on the Z so that they can use a ground/air combo more effectively. Your goal as the Z on the TZ team is to survive and to keep your opponents' lings at bay. | ||
|
FreeZEternal
Korea (South)3396 Posts
| ||
|
CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2709 Posts
On September 11 2006 11:27 Mortality wrote: Your presence in the game and the fact that resources are more limited with 4 players on a map than with 2 players on a map gives the Terran a considerable advantage over the Zergs. Further, if you waste money on tech, that is money you can't devote to lings. If you can keep your ling power up, then you can use your lings in combination with your partner to keep your opponents from getting any ground advantage. Now they are dependent on mutas, and more than likely at least one of them is still playing off of one base, meanwhile with your ling support and his ever-growing mnm army, your partner can now expand freely to his natural. 2v2 TZ vs ZZ is all about giving your Terran partner the breathing room he needs to become an unstoppable machine. The Zerg opponents want to deny that from happening, but attacking the Terran is usually impossible since the Z on the TZ team is mobile enough to help and since the Terran likely walled, so the ZZ will instead likely focus on the Z so that they can use a ground/air combo more effectively. Your goal as the Z on the TZ team is to survive and to keep your opponents' lings at bay. Surving is allways the 1st priority, I just disagree with using all of your resources on lings. Your T ally needs help with very specific things where lings can be usefull, but surving isn't one of them. His main problem will be to move out and actually cause damage to the enemy in the early game, which he will need to do if your opponents are not total retards who throw everything they have against you several times. (Which happens suprisingly often) I build lings early on to get enough stuff so that the T can move across the map and possibly assult a sunken wall. After that I get mutas (or rather while doing that).The trick is of course to tech as fast as you can while maintaing defense. If you don't get mutas the enemy has no reason to go mutas either. Generally I'd say that going lurkers is the worst thing the enemy can do but if your not giving them any incentive to not do that one of them will. Lurkers are bad news because they are good against rines and rape lings. One zerg with lurks can easily use them to help contain the T, expanding while the other guy powers. The other guy then builds a lot more mutas than you could ever hope for with your 1 exp and threaten both of you (hiya spores) and your allys base just like if it was a regular TvZ. The other guy has then finished his powering and is also building mutas (for a short while untill one or both switch to whatever). There's now a metric fuckton of mutas in the air and it's pretty likely that your scewed. Regardless you can't do much, both Z's are as mobile as you are and together they pack x4 the punch. Then T get's irradiate but it's to late because the zergs have added another exp or gotten hive tech or just have a shitload of units and then they win. I want one of the enemy to go lurkers (hydras works to but lurks are nicer) but I don't want them doing it if I can't stop it, and an easy way to stop it is to be able to get mutas before he makes the switch from lurks to mutas. Of course which map you play on can be incredibly important as well. It's much easier to turtle out 2 Z's on luna (or two tosses for that matter) because they can't get more than one gas exp. In other maps it's a lot harder because two 3 gas zergs are really scare. Edit: After reading my post it basically boils down to 1 thing. 2Z has map control, you need to break it or threaten it at least for a little while so they can't use it to outgrow you. Mutas are better for this than zerglings. | ||
|
Mortality
United States4790 Posts
Presumably your OL are flying around the map studying your opponents' bases. If you see one making for hydra tech, you know that he's the one you need to work on first unless he is in a much weaker position. I agree with the last thing you said. You DO need to threaten it or break it. But if you break it, you want to do it at the opportune moment. By constantly powering with lings (possibly with +1 attack) and having your partner constantly power mnm off 3 rax (possibly with +1 attack), you can completely kill off at least one of them before that tech advantage is, breaking them down. If you choose not to break it so much as threaten it, then use your Terran ally to threaten it. A little bit of tech on your end can't do enough to threaten 2 Zerg opponents, but a Terran pushing out and gaining a critical macro edge puts the Zergs in a precarious position. In short: -Breaking them requires you to have a critical ground advantage before their tech kicks in, and since they can double you and your partner lacks sufficient mobility to help you early, this means that they can tech faster than you while still putting you on the defensive. By powering ground all-in, you allow yourself the ability to turn the tables SOONER. -Threatening them requires having something they can't counter easily, but since there are two of them and one of you and your partner isn't as mobile early, they can counter ANYTHING you can offer. No, your only option is to let your Terran partner threaten them and work in a support position. -And I'll add one last point: if you go all-in ground, they will have at most 2x your power. If you go for tech, your ground force will be half ass and then they actually CAN get 4x your power. Your decision to tech MAKES your ground force useless. | ||
| ||
