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[G] Complete TvP Walls on Fighting Spirit 1.3 - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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sabas123
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands3122 Posts
February 20 2013 10:10 GMT
#21
interesting walls, but i really dislike the brigde wall at bottem left
The harder it becomes, the more you should focus on the basics.
traceurling
Profile Joined December 2012
United States1240 Posts
February 20 2013 18:46 GMT
#22
On February 14 2013 06:49 Jaevlaterran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2013 04:02 traceurling wrote:
On February 14 2013 01:01 Jaevlaterran wrote:
On February 13 2013 21:08 kade wrote:
On February 12 2013 19:13 Jaevlaterran wrote:
There is really no reason not to wall imo. Just laziness if the wall is open for marines like mine are you can with an fd fend off an early goon by simply walking them out. Also another great thing is to start building the second supply with the barracks scv just to hide your tech.


if you're going to open fd its much better to just simcity instead of wall. your factory will be faster.




This is the liquipedia version of a normal FD:

9/10 - Supply Depot
12/18 and 250 minerals - Barracks and Refinery
13/18 - Scout
@100% Refinery - 3 SCVs on gas at 88 Gas take 2 SCVs off
15/18 - Supply Depot
16/26 - Factory
16/26 - Marine
@100% Factory - Machine Shop and put two SCVs back on Gas
@100% Machine Shop - Tank, upgrade Mines
@100% Tank - attack and build Vulture
@400 minerals - expand

Place the first supply depot on the wall. Place the barracks on the wall. Start the supply with the barracks scv to make a tight wall when you have 100 minerals after refinery. Finish the supply depot. Place the factory. How does this change the factory timing?

Making a wall when doing FD changes very little. At least this build order is unchanged. But there are plenty of variants of FD, I mean liquipedia lists 4 different FDs.


Well of course, you always get less mining time when your SCVs have to travel to where they're going to build...


on non-korean level is it reeeeeally that important


Not super important but it's always nice to optimize your builds where you can
"Appreciate the things you have before they become the things you had."
ninini
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden1204 Posts
February 21 2013 19:04 GMT
#23
On the 5 o clock wall, you can stack the supplies on eachother, and move the rax accordingly to the right. That's still tight, because of the white terrain that you can't pass with units. You can't see it here, because the rax is on top of it.

I always need 4 supplies to wall the top-right 3rd, but I'm gonna try that wall. About walling the bridge. Generally, as protoss, attacking terran other than out in the open is a bad idea, and if he wants to attack me at the bridge, by all means, go ahead. I tend to put a turret and 1-2 supplies there, to defend against busts, and it works well. A complete wall is better, but it also obstructs your units. I can see pros and cons, but I definately recommend building a single supply and turret there.

Anyway, I personally never ever wall a ramp main in TvP. In TvZ, walls are useful, but in TvP I just think it's a hinderance.
The build that walls are supposed to deal with is 2 gate zealot builds, and proxy or not, he will go for gas steal, because that's just what protoss does. The gas steal isn't the problem, but if the protoss knows what he's doing he will make sure to pylon your wall too, and when he does that, you're screwed.
On top of that. You need to pull scv's for ages, to repair the wall, which wastes a lot of resources.

The safe way and imo the best way to deal with 2 gate zealot cheese is to just build a bunker in your main, that protects your mineral line and production. Sometimes, you can also follow it up with a 2nd rax, and do a counter with mass rines, especially against proxy gateways. The more he delays his dragoon production, the easier it is to kill him off with a counter attack.

Against less bad builds, like the 2 zealot harass before goon build, a supply + barracks sim city is all you need. Build the Barracks to the right of the CC, if possible. If you keep taking too much damage to that build, just put up a bunker. Since he's not committing to zealots, it puts you slightly behind, but there's not a significant difference.
bulbasaur)
Profile Joined October 2011
Poland11 Posts
February 21 2013 22:29 GMT
#24
You should upload semi walls where terrans use command center + supply+ rax in natural to make powerfull half wall during rax exp. I have seen mong and pros doing it.
sabas123
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands3122 Posts
February 22 2013 09:08 GMT
#25
btw the 5oclock wall is should be depo depo in a vertica line instead of diagonal, it safes more space for an army go in and out, and has the same wall. might be not zling tight thou
The harder it becomes, the more you should focus on the basics.
skzlime
Profile Joined July 2005
Hungary462 Posts
February 24 2013 12:02 GMT
#26
On February 14 2013 01:01 Jaevlaterran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2013 21:08 kade wrote:
On February 12 2013 19:13 Jaevlaterran wrote:
There is really no reason not to wall imo. Just laziness if the wall is open for marines like mine are you can with an fd fend off an early goon by simply walking them out. Also another great thing is to start building the second supply with the barracks scv just to hide your tech.


if you're going to open fd its much better to just simcity instead of wall. your factory will be faster.




This is the liquipedia version of a normal FD:

9/10 - Supply Depot
12/18 and 250 minerals - Barracks and Refinery
13/18 - Scout
@100% Refinery - 3 SCVs on gas at 88 Gas take 2 SCVs off
15/18 - Supply Depot
16/26 - Factory
16/26 - Marine
@100% Factory - Machine Shop and put two SCVs back on Gas
@100% Machine Shop - Tank, upgrade Mines
@100% Tank - attack and build Vulture
@400 minerals - expand

Place the first supply depot on the wall. Place the barracks on the wall. Start the supply with the barracks scv to make a tight wall when you have 100 minerals after refinery. Finish the supply depot. Place the factory. How does this change the factory timing?

Making a wall when doing FD changes very little. At least this build order is unchanged. But there are plenty of variants of FD, I mean liquipedia lists 4 different FDs.


I prefer 11rax 11gas FD, in which case you build 2nd supply depot after you have put down the factory. you can still make a wall by delaying the first rine so both your tank and 2nd depot are quicker, but it will weaken your earlier FD by 1-2 marine(s). 11/11 is a more agressive FD, while 12 refinery gives you slightly better econ and faster nat CC and is suited for defensive play vs 2 gate without giving up control like siege expand does (allows for a stronger 2fact timing attack vs tech/greed).
life is balanced, L2P
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