EPTUnfortunately I can't find any reps of me doing that recently, so can't post those.
PvZ fast expo as toss
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phexac
United States186 Posts
Unfortunately I can't find any reps of me doing that recently, so can't post those. | ||
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sundance
Slovakia3201 Posts
Just don't go fast exp if you suck with it. | ||
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MaTRiX[SiN]
Sweden1282 Posts
after ur first 1-3 cannons go 2 gate, attack once u got 4 zealots and try to see what tech he's got (walk past defence line with zealot or w/e). if he's double expanding and it's a map that's not like temple (where u only have to defend 1 place for 2 expands) keep making units from ur 2 gates while teching up to archives+robo. and pressure him try to slow him down etc. if he's going fast hydra stop probes and add more gates (so that u have 5~6) and get zeal speed asap. u should be able to outmacro him with that and then get citadel storm etc if muta get cannons at both ur nexuses and get 1 port to get some sairs for defence untill u got archons. if lurk just make sure u got enough cannons in front so he cant lurk/ling push attack u. also u want to watch out for slow drops on cliffs or in main etc. get robo+archives and add more gates etc...should be able to outmacro him unless he does alot of damage early. (not alot of people open lurk vs fe tho) make sure to get ur macro up in time and u do most of the time want to get 1 port(about same time u build citadel) and build some corsairs for scout & harrass. dont make alot of cannons unless u know it's 100% necessary. it'll slow u down alot to make many cannons early on. ideally u only make 1 cannon to hold off lings at the start.. | ||
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LastWish
2015 Posts
1. mutas - cannons, corsairs 2. low eco hydras (one base) - cannons at natural 3. mass hydras into drop - storm, revear, some cannons 4. 1 base fastlings - hold probe production, more cannons, more zealots, building placement 5. mass expand usually to mass ling with mutas - many zealots, +1 asap | ||
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MaTRiX[SiN]
Sweden1282 Posts
On May 15 2005 11:52 LastWish wrote: possible openings and early counters : 1. mutas - cannons, corsairs 2. low eco hydras (one base) - cannons at natural 3. mass hydras into drop - storm, revear, some cannons 4. 1 base fastlings - hold probe production, more cannons, more zealots, building placement 5. mass expand usually to mass ling with mutas - many zealots, +1 asap cannons at natural isnt good vs hydra..if he just holds his attack a bit he'll have enough hydra to break it...cannons arent very strong vs hydralisks at all..better to go zealots imo edit: also even if u hold with cannons u cant counter attack him and ur macro will be very slow.. | ||
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Regentropfen
Germany277 Posts
On May 15 2005 11:59 MaTRiX[SiN] wrote: cannons at natural isnt good vs hydra..if he just holds his attack a bit he'll have enough hydra to break it...cannons arent very strong vs hydralisks at all..better to go zealots imo edit: also even if u hold with cannons u cant counter attack him and ur macro will be very slow.. if z goes 1 base hydra and u dont have speedzeals, u have to build cannons or u'll die if zerg has a little bit of micro..... | ||
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EchoOfRain
United States516 Posts
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FroST(TE)
United States909 Posts
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pfff
Belgium1352 Posts
build: 8 pylon at nat, 10 or 11 forge at nat (good building placement is needed), scout with the pylon probe and the forge probe, the build diverges a lot from here. options are, (you will scout him pretty early with 2 probe scouts) if he hatches first at nat, cannon rush him, this doesnt even have to work, max you will lose is 1 pylon, he either has to use a lot of drones (depending on how late he scouted youre rush) or he has to get a shitload of lings (useless vs youre cannoned expo and every 2 lings = 1 drone less). on some positions, like the bottom left on nost, you have pretty much impossible to stop cannon placements, with a pylon blocking of his lings and a cannon behind the mins. the goal of this rush isnt to kill anything (if you do stop his nat and kill his hatch, then dont go FE, just play 1 base toss vs 1 base zerg, should be a really easy win) its to keep him up his toes and to make him unable to constantly power his econ, he needs to either use his drones to attack, use drones to get sunks or get lings, all this harms his econ. other possibility, he hatches at main, just go 13 or 14 nexus, you can even gate (block off cannons with this) and maybe even gas before youre first cannon, then just go into midgame. always send out youre first zeal in this situation, some zergs are dumb enough to pump pure drones and not get lings at all. 12 pool into hatch at expo, this depends, some positions you can nexus first and then cannon, others you have to cannon first. then midgame, basically (im still pretty much talking about min only nat maps, this build is different (not a lot different, but zerg has more tech options so you have to play more carefully)), its you going +1 speedzeals. do not lose those speedzeals, i just try to keep the zerg busy (vs lurk ling, kill lings, then run when lurks burrow, vs mass hydras, run until you can get off a good surround), kill any expands if they get greedy and just keep him busy until you can get a gas expo up with lots off cannons,... this strat really needs more timing then it needs micro/macro. | ||
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pfff
Belgium1352 Posts
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DuSkie
Czech Republic451 Posts
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learning88
United States160 Posts
pfff, in your post you said that if you stop the Zerg's nat expo and kill his hatch, you should go one base. However, wouldn't it be better to still fast expand so that you have an immense lead in economy? | ||
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sundance
Slovakia3201 Posts
On June 13 2005 15:13 learning88 wrote: In what positions is this fast expand safe? And what build order from the Zerg can really mess up the Protoss? pfff, in your post you said that if you stop the Zerg's nat expo and kill his hatch, you should go one base. However, wouldn't it be better to still fast expand so that you have an immense lead in economy? What map? If LT then best position is 9.It's Decent far away from other mains and has sexi cliff for this build  | ||
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pfff
Belgium1352 Posts
On June 13 2005 15:13 learning88 wrote: In what positions is this fast expand safe? And what build order from the Zerg can really mess up the Protoss? pfff, in your post you said that if you stop the Zerg's nat expo and kill his hatch, you should go one base. However, wouldn't it be better to still fast expand so that you have an immense lead in economy? well, if youre cannon rush succeeded, there is basically no way at all youre going to lose in this situation, except if you get caught off guard by either lings before you get cannons up at youre main, or if you get caught off guard by his one base tech. vs both these options not going early expo is safer. if you go still expo, you'll probably still win, but it is a little bit unsafer. | ||
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GunnRun
United States20 Posts
but then agn, he's a pro ._. | ||
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sTrAtO
Mexico1084 Posts
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Resonate
United Kingdom8402 Posts
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BigBalls
United States5354 Posts
When I used to fast expo, I would do a dual probe scout. I'd make a pylon outside, then scout, then make a forge outside, scout the opposite way. If I found my opponent and he wasnt linging, I'd make a nexus, then a gate, then a photon. If he was linging, i would use my judgment on when to make photons (either before or after nexus). After the expo is up, you have to make units, while simultaneously teching and upgrading. The key is not letting him get more than 3 bases. If you do, you're in for some trouble. You need +1 and zealot speed to allow yourself to be able to control the ground for a few minutes and grab an expo or two. Smart zergs will go mainly lings with +1 armor, have 2-3 gas, go muta into hive tech, and go ultra/ling, while stopping your expansion attempts. Keys to winning: 1. You need to sneak a probe an establish another gas expo (if there is no gas at your natural, i.e. nostalgia). If you get another base running with good photon protection, you can get about 12 gates working and have a ton of archons/temps to neutralize his forces. 2. You need to be very aware of what your opponent is doing. Keep your probe alive in his base as long as possible, try and figure out if hes going to ling for a while then tech, if he's going to hydra, lurker, muta, whatever. If he hydras and you go sair youre in trouble. If there is a cliff above your expo on the map and you dont have a robo or sair, youre screwed. If he goes muta and you go 3 gate zeal then tech and youre low on photons, youre dead. You need to be very precise and if it looks like he is doing something particular, guard against it. 3. Scout with dts. It might prevent a few expos and save you the game. If he manages to take a natural expansion and fortify it, the only way you can get through is with carriers or recalling into the main base. You must control the ground as long as possible. You do want carriers or arbiters late game, as they are so powerful against zerg. Having backup sairs with your air units is a great idea to kill off scourge. The best replay I had of pvz expo toss was trek v day on nostalgia. Let me find it, post it somewhere then put it up here. | ||
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BigBalls
United States5354 Posts
its not the most recent patch, so you might have to get a converter | ||
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NonYold
United States2814 Posts
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GroT
Belgium3003 Posts
On June 13 2005 16:13 pfff wrote: well, if youre cannon rush succeeded, there is basically no way at all youre going to lose in this situation, except if you get caught off guard by either lings before you get cannons up at youre main, or if you get caught off guard by his one base tech. vs both these options not going early expo is safer. if you go still expo, you'll probably still win, but it is a little bit unsafer. this isn't just about fast expanding in pvz, it's a big golden rule: when you're ridiculously far ahead, don't take any chances at all | ||
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orzhady
Sweden180 Posts
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FuckTeamliquid
United States12 Posts
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Empyrean
17015 Posts
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GoDFaTHeR
United States1 Post
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