EPTBut Hydra Lurk is really good combo if your oponent is skiping tanks and Hydra Lurk Defiler is preety good against terran late game. JD vs Flash on Rush Hour is a good example.
Hydras vs Bio - Page 2
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SkelA
Macedonia13032 Posts
But Hydra Lurk is really good combo if your oponent is skiping tanks and Hydra Lurk Defiler is preety good against terran late game. JD vs Flash on Rush Hour is a good example. | ||
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xarthaz
1704 Posts
On June 26 2011 23:53 lyAsakura wrote: hydras have what protoss in sc2 has. the stacking effect. dps output is extremely high because lhydras are on top of lurks, similarly to colossi being on top of stalkers. and with swarm and lurk support, running from marines isnt exactly necessary. Remember, lurkers are basically immortal under swarm, especially against tank heavy army that u speak about.1) What if they add tanks? What will you do then? They could just stand there and watch your hydras explode and that's if you somehow survive to queens with only hydras. 2) hydra lurk is soft counter to sk terran, the hydras were doing nothing more then tanking and keeping the vessel count down. I don't think once in that game you see hydras beating marines cost effectively. in fact, you could see hydras running multiple times once they were out of lurker support | ||
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therockmanxx
Peru1174 Posts
The only possible scenerio is YES ling hydra queen But you would have to be really ahead of T And if u are crazy enough to try this combo I think ur skill wouldnt allow you to micro/multitasking to use ur queens  | ||
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Piste
6171 Posts
 but that's only if you have the upgrades for hydras at the late game, which you usually don't. 3hatch hydras with timing attack can be extremely effective vs FE on maps with failry large choke if terran doesn't scout it. I saw mondragon do it once on Tau Cross vs some good terran, but that's just one in a million case. hydra builds in ZvT are for fun and usually they only work with luck involved. | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
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Ramiel
United States1220 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=223575 That post in particular has a replay of a zvt build that i am working on, that uses +1 hydra, and lurker all game. No muta, and it has shown to be effective Read lower down the blog and you can find my thoughts on the build. Anyway I hope that this helps.This is my new take off of my old idea in this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=81035 | ||
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CakeOrI)eath
United States327 Posts
On June 26 2011 16:12 Grobyc wrote: A +1 hydra will do 5 > 6 > 5 > 6 > 5, etc, etc. BW hp has a hidden decimal, so they are really doing 5.5 dmg every time, it just seems like its 5,6,5,6 because the display rounds the remaining hp. This can also be noticed with muta splash that normally does 9/3/1 dmg but with +1 it will do 10/3.3/1.1 | ||
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saritenite
Singapore1680 Posts
On June 26 2011 23:58 SkelA wrote: Pure Hydra against Bio is not a good idea. This will never work even against bad players because Hydra gets owned by marines. If you compare Hydra vs Marines in every category Marines win with the exeption in HP but thats negated with the medics. But Hydra Lurk is really good combo if your oponent is skiping tanks and Hydra Lurk Defiler is preety good against terran late game. JD vs Flash on Rush Hour is a good example. Hydra Lurker is quite good: one reason marines are able to micro against lurkers is because lings are melee units and easier to pick off. Hydras are more tanky and require less babysitting (surrounds etc) It shuts down marines darting in to pick off lurkers, in that sense. Would be pretty good if the other guy goes SK terran, but you'll have to scout it properly with mutas and not make too many muta too. Look for machine shop on factory/second starport. Hydras can kill vessels too, so you wont need to bring scourge on the midfield; they can sit in base and defend dropships. You can also mix in lings. Hydra lurker ling is very effective for surrounds, and provides a great transition for defiler (fodder for consume) The con of this build is you will have fewer lurkers, and overproducing hydras can result in really late defilers. Terran really doesn't expect hydra play unless he mechs. If your hydra outnumber him you are almost guaranteed to win. Keep in mind your upgrades though; you will need to get speed and range AND lurker tech, so be wary of how you spend your gas | ||
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djbhINDI
United States372 Posts
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
On June 27 2011 04:38 CakeOrI)eath wrote: BW hp has a hidden decimal, so they are really doing 5.5 dmg every time, it just seems like its 5,6,5,6 because the display rounds the remaining hp. This can also be noticed with muta splash that normally does 9/3/1 dmg but with +1 it will do 10/3.3/1.1 Yes I know, I just listed the actual amount of life taken off per hit. | ||
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Zyferous
United States270 Posts
On June 27 2011 02:07 xarthaz wrote: hydras have what protoss in sc2 has. the stacking effect. dps output is extremely high because lhydras are on top of lurks, similarly to colossi being on top of stalkers. and with swarm and lurk support, running from marines isnt exactly necessary. Remember, lurkers are basically immortal under swarm, especially against tank heavy army that u speak about. The ball effect also applies to marines, and marines have it better due to their higher dps and the medics constantly healing them. Also marines essentially cost half as much as a hydralisk. Lurkers are immortal under swarm because burrow doesn't allow them to take splash damage. Hydralisks, on the other hand are not burrowed and still melt to tanks even underneath a swarm. Hydralurk is viable, but pure hydra is not. The difference between hydralurk and lurkerling is that you'll have fewer lurkers due to hydras also costing gas, which basically offsets any advantage you would've gotten with hydras having a ranged attack. To put into comparison, both hydras and lings die in two shots from a tank, while lings deal higher dps for lower range. But remember that you can also make approximately four lings to one hydra, so it also offsets that. All in all, there's a reason why you don't see widespread hydralurk play in ZvT. | ||
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djbhINDI
United States372 Posts
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
On June 27 2011 04:38 CakeOrI)eath wrote: BW hp has a hidden decimal, so they are really doing 5.5 dmg every time, it just seems like its 5,6,5,6 because the display rounds the remaining hp. This can also be noticed with muta splash that normally does 9/3/1 dmg but with +1 it will do 10/3.3/1.1 Holy shit. I have played for 10 years and had no clue of the hidden decimal. This game is so awesome. | ||
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_Quasar_
Russian Federation4405 Posts
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tedster
984 Posts
On June 26 2011 23:05 CaffeineFree-_- wrote: I'm surprised no one suggested vanilla style guardian/hydra. You have to open 2h muta though This is pretty much the most viable hydra build you're going to see against a bio terran + expected tanks, I'm not sure why it hasn't been pointed out more. It's old but still viable. | ||
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Djagulingu
Germany3605 Posts
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
i think that until C levels you can win a lot of games with good hydra push builds though. I used to make 2 or 3 hatcheries before pool, then saturate shitloads of drones and somehow go for 4 hatch mass hydra first push without any evo upgrades. the good thing here is that we can be greedier than usual and get a mineral expo with our 3th or 4th hatch (but this way it's harder to hide all the hydras from terran's scouting). during the first push i generally transition to lair to make lurks/mutas later in the game. obv the strat is more suitable the more the opponent is not going for 4-5 rax in the begining. if you are very sure that he will go 2-3 rax most of the time, then i think it's worth to try some hydra builds. | ||
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YejinYejin
United States1053 Posts
On June 28 2011 05:43 tedster wrote: This is pretty much the most viable hydra build you're going to see against a bio terran + expected tanks, I'm not sure why it hasn't been pointed out more. It's old but still viable. Silver Build on Monty Hall, anybody? http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/2903/vod | ||
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Jragon
Australia1471 Posts
On June 27 2011 13:03 Zyferous wrote: The ball effect also applies to marines, and marines have it better due to their higher dps and the medics constantly healing them. Also marines essentially cost half as much as a hydralisk. Lurkers are immortal under swarm because burrow doesn't allow them to take splash damage. Hydralisks, on the other hand are not burrowed and still melt to tanks even underneath a swarm.... I remember reading a thread a while ago where this got discussed; doesn't swarm negate the direct damage of a tank but the splash damage still applies? This is why you see everything but a single lurker die to tanks under swarm, but that lurker survives under constant tank fire until the swarm expires. Same deal for archon damage under swarm. | ||
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saritenite
Singapore1680 Posts
On June 29 2011 11:00 Jragon wrote: I remember reading a thread a while ago where this got discussed; doesn't swarm negate the direct damage of a tank but the splash damage still applies? This is why you see everything but a single lurker die to tanks under swarm, but that lurker survives under constant tank fire until the swarm expires. Same deal for archon damage under swarm. You are right, but it's also because burrowed units do not take damage from splash. I'm pretty sure tank splash also does damage to the primary target, though I can't remember. But even if burrowed lurkers were close to each other under the swarm they would not take the splash damage. | ||
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