Hydras vs Bio

On June 26 2011 22:58 blahblahblahwhatever wrote:
I don't like the argument that bio rips hydras apart because bio rips every zerg unit apart (except for guardians maybe) just as easily.

My 2 cents:

1) Hydra-ling-queen would work against bio because ensnare counters stim. Marines are so deadly not because of their damage but because stim allows them to deliver their damage at an insane rate. Take away stim with ensnare and marines become next to useless. And because you've spent so much gas on queens, wouldn't hydras be the ideal unit to pick off the ensnared marines?

2) The other way they could be used is as a replacement for ultras in the late game. I'm sure that defilers and 3/3 hydras are more than a match for bio. Jaedong beat Flash like this for Christ's sake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TtWegXOOGg

On June 26 2011 23:53 lyAsakura wrote:


1) What if they add tanks? What will you do then? They could just stand there and watch your hydras explode and that's if you somehow survive to queens with only hydras.

2) hydra lurk is soft counter to sk terran, the hydras were doing nothing more then tanking and keeping the vessel count down. I don't think once in that game you see hydras beating marines cost effectively. in fact, you could see hydras running multiple times once they were out of lurker support

On June 26 2011 16:12 Grobyc wrote:
A +1 hydra will do 5 > 6 > 5 > 6 > 5, etc, etc.

On June 26 2011 23:58 SkelA wrote:
Pure Hydra against Bio is not a good idea. This will never work even against bad players because Hydra gets owned by marines. If you compare Hydra vs Marines in every category Marines win with the exeption in HP but thats negated with the medics.

But Hydra Lurk is really good combo if your oponent is skiping tanks and Hydra Lurk Defiler is preety good against terran late game. JD vs Flash on Rush Hour is a good example.

On June 27 2011 04:38 CakeOrI)eath wrote:


BW hp has a hidden decimal, so they are really doing 5.5 dmg every time, it just seems like its 5,6,5,6 because the display rounds the remaining hp. This can also be noticed with muta splash that normally does 9/3/1 dmg but with +1 it will do 10/3.3/1.1

On June 27 2011 02:07 xarthaz wrote:
hydras have what protoss in sc2 has. the stacking effect. dps output is extremely high because lhydras are on top of lurks, similarly to colossi being on top of stalkers. and with swarm and lurk support, running from marines isnt exactly necessary. Remember, lurkers are basically immortal under swarm, especially against tank heavy army that u speak about.

On June 27 2011 04:38 CakeOrI)eath wrote:


BW hp has a hidden decimal, so they are really doing 5.5 dmg every time, it just seems like its 5,6,5,6 because the display rounds the remaining hp. This can also be noticed with muta splash that normally does 9/3/1 dmg but with +1 it will do 10/3.3/1.1

On June 26 2011 23:05 CaffeineFree-_- wrote:
I'm surprised no one suggested vanilla style guardian/hydra. You have to open 2h muta though

On June 28 2011 05:43 tedster wrote:


This is pretty much the most viable hydra build you're going to see against a bio terran + expected tanks, I'm not sure why it hasn't been pointed out more. It's old but still viable.

On June 27 2011 13:03 Zyferous wrote:
The ball effect also applies to marines, and marines have it better due to their higher dps and the medics constantly healing them. Also marines essentially cost half as much as a hydralisk.

Lurkers are immortal under swarm because burrow doesn't allow them to take splash damage. Hydralisks, on the other hand are not burrowed and still melt to tanks even underneath a swarm....

On June 29 2011 11:00 Jragon wrote:


I remember reading a thread a while ago where this got discussed; doesn't swarm negate the direct damage of a tank but the splash damage still applies? This is why you see everything but a single lurker die to tanks under swarm, but that lurker survives under constant tank fire until the swarm expires. Same deal for archon damage under swarm.

On June 29 2011 11:48 saritenite wrote:


You are right, but it's also because burrowed units do not take damage from splash. I'm pretty sure tank splash also does damage to the primary target, though I can't remember. But even if burrowed lurkers were close to each other under the swarm they would not take the splash damage.

On June 30 2011 01:58 Keftes wrote:
Okay, for those of you saying that this build is weak, why don't you try if for yourselves? People are saying MM shreds hydras lol? This build is not weak at all, and is viable till the B level. I have used it so many times because it is an all around, SAFE BUILD. Just think about it:

-Terran goes standard 1 barracks fe. You can wait till terran tries to move out. By the time he gets 1 control group, you will have 2 and a half almost 3 control groups. Test it, after 1 mm group moves out you will shread them and you can expo all over the map till mass tanks come. Heck, you can even hydra bust the nat, get it over quickly.
-Terran goes mass wraiths, no problem here. In fact pros put down a den when they see wraiths sometimes.
-Terran goes vulture/wraith transition, again no problem same as above
-Terran goes mass goliaths or something, hydra is the perfect counter


The only 2 (rare nowadays) builds this would be really hard to use on would be a 2 racks no expo build and a tank vulture mine build. Otherwise, you are good until you get to B with this.

The only thing I would add is a +1 ranged attacks. Why not, it is cheap and easy to upgrade. And you have to realize how mobile you are with this. You don't have to burrow/unborrow, attack at right time with lings, etc. This build is strong.

On June 30 2011 01:58 Keftes wrote:
Okay, for those of you saying that this build is weak, why don't you try if for yourselves? People are saying MM shreds hydras lol? This build is not weak at all, and is viable till the B level. I have used it so many times because it is an all around, SAFE BUILD. Just think about it:

-Terran goes standard 1 barracks fe. You can wait till terran tries to move out. By the time he gets 1 control group, you will have 2 and a half almost 3 control groups. Test it, after 1 mm group moves out you will shread them and you can expo all over the map till mass tanks come. Heck, you can even hydra bust the nat, get it over quickly.
-Terran goes mass wraiths, no problem here. In fact pros put down a den when they see wraiths sometimes.
-Terran goes vulture/wraith transition, again no problem same as above
-Terran goes mass goliaths or something, hydra is the perfect counter


The only 2 (rare nowadays) builds this would be really hard to use on would be a 2 racks no expo build and a tank vulture mine build. Otherwise, you are good until you get to B with this.

The only thing I would add is a +1 ranged attacks. Why not, it is cheap and easy to upgrade. And you have to realize how mobile you are with this. You don't have to burrow/unborrow, attack at right time with lings, etc. This build is strong.

On June 30 2011 01:58 Keftes wrote:
Okay, for those of you saying that this build is weak, why don't you try if for yourselves? People are saying MM shreds hydras lol? This build is not weak at all, and is viable till the B level. I have used it so many times because it is an all around, SAFE BUILD. Just think about it:

-Terran goes standard 1 barracks fe. You can wait till terran tries to move out. By the time he gets 1 control group, you will have 2 and a half almost 3 control groups. Test it, after 1 mm group moves out you will shread them and you can expo all over the map till mass tanks come. Heck, you can even hydra bust the nat, get it over quickly.
-Terran goes mass wraiths, no problem here. In fact pros put down a den when they see wraiths sometimes.
-Terran goes vulture/wraith transition, again no problem same as above
-Terran goes mass goliaths or something, hydra is the perfect counter


The only 2 (rare nowadays) builds this would be really hard to use on would be a 2 racks no expo build and a tank vulture mine build. Otherwise, you are good until you get to B with this.

The only thing I would add is a +1 ranged attacks. Why not, it is cheap and easy to upgrade. And you have to realize how mobile you are with this. You don't have to burrow/unborrow, attack at right time with lings, etc. This build is strong.

On June 26 2011 15:02 Grobyc wrote:
A good Terran won't let you catch him out of position and unstimmed. MnM rips apart mass hydra unless you have lurker support, and tanks destroy both hydras and lurkers when he has 3+.

Not having mutas out puts absolutely no pressure on the Terran as well. He can simply sit in his base until he has 5ish tanks and then push out and kill you.

Hydralurk can be viable late game, but even then it's still only really seen against a SK Terran (no tanks) because tanks still rip shit apart, unless you have insane defiler usage and the map permits it.

This might work on players who have bad macro in the lower tanks, but I see you running in to a lot of trouble once you get to D+/C-.

This build simply puts you at a huge disadvantage as an opener. Like I said, hydralurk can be viable late game, but that's something you transition in to. Lair units are absolutely necessary to deal with Terran mid game.

On June 30 2011 22:28 arb wrote:

The only time hydralurker really realistically works, is if they do the very rare(atleast from my experience) skip tanks straight into SK terran Nada style.

But since most terrans wont do this, i suggest just doing lurker ling till you get better at it.

On June 30 2011 23:50 Keftes wrote:
I will try to post replays for evidence soon...
You will be surprised how fast you can get 2 control groups of hydras. In fact, by standard muta timing, you will have about 1 and a half groups of hydras with both upgrades range and speed with +1 almost half way. Trick is to 3 hatch, then drone, with a late 2nd gas (not as fast as you would take it with mutas) You will have a surplus of minerals and enough gas to upgrade and make hydras at the same time.
Again, I'll try to get a replay up.

On July 01 2011 04:50 jidolboy wrote:


But by standard 3 hatch muta timing, terran will most likely to have 1 or maybe 1 and 1/2 group of marine pumping from 2-4 barracks (depending on build) with tanks, and +1 weapon researching. you won't be able bust their natrual with the build assuming they built 2 bunkers after seeing hydralisk den with their scan.
By the time you get your 3rd gas, terran will just shred your hydra with 2-3 groups of rines with 3-5 tanks
But then again, i'm only D player Terran, so any higher rank, feel free to correct me

On July 01 2011 06:59 xarthaz wrote:

Yeah and with terran not pumping turrets like mad due to muta threat, they will have a ton of spare resources to make for a booming macro - thats kinda how it works, kind of impossible to alter the muta paradigm without losing efficiency.

On June 30 2011 23:50 Keftes wrote:
I will try to post replays for evidence soon...
You will be surprised how fast you can get 2 control groups of hydras. In fact, by standard muta timing, you will have about 1 and a half groups of hydras with both upgrades range and speed with +1 almost half way. Trick is to 3 hatch, then drone, with a late 2nd gas (not as fast as you would take it with mutas) You will have a surplus of minerals and enough gas to upgrade and make hydras at the same time.
Again, I'll try to get a replay up.

On July 01 2011 15:04 JMave wrote:
Well, it would be quite hard to actually really pry this apart without any replays from OP or from people who claim this to be of very effective use.

I am very interested to know how you manage your gas with your carapace and hydra upgrades along with the timing of everything being done. Because even if he assumes 3 hatch lurker, he won't be moving out very soon, adding a few bunkers at his door and you are potentially screwed because you are now on a diminishing time window. His own +1 upgrades will probably be done and you won't have a defiler in time to protect yourself.

On July 02 2011 04:11 HaFnium wrote:


I have posted the replays many times alrdy, check the last page for it, the replay was even posted in the TL replay section.

Is it very effective? I doubt it but i think this build can be quite fun and is viable at the lower levels.