Yea- you would really have to rape every battle you fight later on hard because you're going to be contained to hell. What are you going to do vs mutes? Put down 3 spores at each because you just dont have enough units? The obvious benefit, though, is that Lurk will mean you can gg against lings, but you'll have to survive to then barring his own switch (which will be easier w/ more money).

Alpha

France1495 Posts

January 26 2005 09:28 GMT

#22

On January 26 2005 17:10 Day[9] wrote:
hydra is very strong in ZvZ

i've beaten a shitload of really really strong korean zergs going hydra in ZvZ, its just REALLY difficult to do. fortunately i have no life and i've practiced it a shitload

i'm like really good

well we know ur micro with lings is just amazing but

would u share some of those reps Day? ^^

evanthebouncy

China491 Posts

January 26 2005 09:29 GMT

#23

On January 26 2005 17:08 LegendaryDreams wrote:
Mobility is key to zerg success.

here u have it, mobility is the greatest strength of z, mutaling is more mobile, thus easier to play. Remember that ling>hydra in small scale, but i think two lurk into your muta/ling force is realy a boost if you can manage to get enuf $$.

Liquid`Drone

Norway28733 Posts

January 26 2005 15:11 GMT

#24

ive had a fair amount of success with going hydra zvz. I've played it quite a lot tho. someone posted the best counter here though, pure muta+take isle + sunken
if there are lurkers present, lings are _useless_.

and I think hydra is better against koreans than nonkoreans. the best nonkorean zergs won't lose against it unless they're well behind after the early game. everyone but the best korean zergs can lose against hydra queen. what I've done is like, before I intend on attacking, I expand to another part of the map, expecting him to find it. then when he attacks that expansion with his mutas, I ensnare them and counter him, so I get to first attack his sunkens/lings and then the mutabackup afterwards.

plague is also ridiculously strong against mutas. :o

and also, you gotta fast expand to have success with hydra. then you're forced to turtle for a little while, but the force you will eventually break out with will *kill* his force in a head on battle.

EvilTeletubby

Baltimore, USA22258 Posts

January 26 2005 17:18 GMT

#25

Any good reps to share of that Eri? Sounds incredibly interesting. ^_^

Liquid`Drone

Norway28733 Posts

January 26 2005 17:21 GMT

#26

I definitely have a couple but I dunno what they're called + 1.10. been a while since I did that now. tt.

Pent

Russian Federation270 Posts

January 26 2005 19:45 GMT

#27

When you go hydra, the opponent makes you stay at home and defend your own base with mutas flying around.. He expoes during that time, so when you can finally leave the base with say a half of your army, your hydra force will meet.. MUCH MORE HYDRA!!!

Ilikestarcraft

Korea (South)17733 Posts

January 26 2005 20:17 GMT

#28

I have a question will scourge+lurk do well against mutaling?

Liquid`Drone

Norway28733 Posts

January 26 2005 20:41 GMT

#29

scourge lurk would beat mutaling if you have enough scourges to beat his mutas
which you won't have, after spending gas on lurkers
and if you're going scourge and he's going muta, you will have more minerals than him and you can win with zerglings instead of lurkers then.

lurkers >>>>> lings though.

Carnac

Germany / USA16648 Posts

January 26 2005 21:02 GMT

#30

On January 27 2005 02:21 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I definitely have a couple but I dunno what they're called + 1.10. been a while since I did that now. tt.

you can use bwchart to find zvz reps, should not be that hard to find them i guess? unless your replay folder is a total mess ^^

kCiNNiCk

United Kingdom313 Posts

January 26 2005 21:08 GMT

#31

I used to use Hydra/lurk, and it worked really well, if u could lurk rush with about 6-8 hydra and 1-2 lurk, if u kill ovies in his base (there wont be many cus they would be out scoutin ur base) then ur lurks cant be seen killin him

.

But back to reality, mutaling > hydra. Most games you wont even have the chance to get lurks cus you'll already be dead.

RaiZ

2813 Posts

January 26 2005 21:39 GMT

#32

Someone teached me a very good counter to hydras and i was simply amazed by how he got rid of it with too much ease. I won't share. That's why i think mutas glings is the only way to play.
Maybe with a little luck you can own with hydras but chances are like 50/50 :/ even less T_T

GuruOftheHasuType

United Kingdom34 Posts

January 26 2005 22:25 GMT

#33

HydraScourge! Saw a rep when Yell0w completely turned round a zvz once by doing this.

baelrog

Austria705 Posts

January 26 2005 22:47 GMT

#34

hyds are also at a very high level effective. there is a fast expo build then add third hatch an pressure a lot with lings while taking gas. this also distracts your opponent then put 2-3 spores at both bases and start pumping drones then hyds just dont get overrun by lings in the beginnig. the muta player will be in a bad position because of worse eco so he has the choice to just mass lings while u are pumping drones to recover from spore building and overrun u or expand. if he expands u are i a good position move out when u have both hyd ups and at least +1 attack for hyds. but scout if u see far too many zerglings u should wait even linger. but bevcause of expansion and muta costs he cant mass ling and muta+ expand.

Moggle

Canada327 Posts

January 27 2005 01:22 GMT

#35

I used to use a 3 hatch hydra build for ZvZ and I still use it occassionally. Its basically expand and see how many drones you can make while getting a hydra den and getting +1 carapace followed by +1 attack for the fags who get +1 armor =(

The only time it really horribly fails is if I can't get my expo up or if they go extremely fast mutas (Evo chamber allows Spores but then you become very turtly =_=)

If you don't get crazily flanked, hydras are quite the wicked.

ZeItL

Germany93 Posts

January 27 2005 02:00 GMT

#36

And as no one has mentioned it ...

... well Tsunami used to go Hyds in ZvZ.

and he did it 1 Base. Dunno how he kept up with his victims though.

SexyMedic

United States282 Posts

January 27 2005 02:54 GMT

#37

On January 27 2005 11:00 ZeItL wrote:
And as no one has mentioned it ...

... well Tsunami used to go Hyds in ZvZ.

and he did it 1 Base. Dunno how he kept up with his victims though.

Subkaiser also had his own hydra "rush" build. I forgot the exact build but he expoed with spores, and would get very fast armor and range but no speed. He would just send out all his guys crawling into the other guys base. Most people weren't prepared to deal with +1 armor that early, and got completely cut down.

It's a decent build versus less experienced players and is certaintly not the premiere counter to muta ling, but it worked because it came unusually early, and nobody else ever went fast +1 armor and moved out without speed.

edit: didnt read 2 posts above. apparently people did go +1 armor back then, hah.

Monsen

Germany2548 Posts

January 27 2005 03:04 GMT

#38

Hmm, when you go expand->Hydra, won't your (muta) opponent just expand while you turtle, then sunken up (10+) and go guards on your sorry ass ?

Liquid`Drone

Norway28733 Posts

January 27 2005 03:10 GMT

#39

guard is a viable counter, yes. but guards usually arrive right after you time your grand attack. 10 sunkens might just not be enough to defend. when going hydra with expansion you will normally lair reasonably fast, at least I do, and while scouting is hard (and often impossible), if I manage to scout _mass_ sunkens, I will opt for dropping him.

Q-Tip

Canada101 Posts

January 27 2005 03:14 GMT

#40

Hydra/Lurk also costs alot of gas.In ZvZ gas is hard to come by and usually by the time you get to the point where you can hydra/lurk,the game is usually over.

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