EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 265
| Forum Index > Brood War Strategy |
|
[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
| ||
|
Cryoc
Germany909 Posts
| ||
|
evilfatsh1t
Australia8639 Posts
On July 10 2016 08:34 [[Starlight]] wrote: Have the veteran players here ever come to a consensus on what's the best way to train/improve your macro? i dont think theres any discussion required as to the best way. its play a lot of games (preferably with repetitive builds/building placements etc) end of story. like the above person said, single player also helps a lot actually. i practiced build orders and capping 200/200 asap on single player so that for any build order i practiced i could soon execute them like second nature. doing occassional stupid shit on single player just to throw yourself off is also good just to create an environment where you have to play through distractions. mix it up by changing the number of computers, the races or just going for custom bots so that the overall difficulty is harder | ||
|
jello_biafra
United Kingdom6635 Posts
On July 10 2016 08:14 [[Starlight]] wrote: Heh heh... the cost question aside, that'd be downright EVIL. Anyone know of any VODs with good infested drops? Probably are almost none, 'cuz almost nobody uses Queens.  I'd recommend searching for games on the map Holy World, pretty sure that was the one with the neutral CC you could infest in the middle. Turns out infested terrans are much more effective in ZvP than ZvT. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28637 Posts
On July 10 2016 08:14 [[Starlight]] wrote: Heh heh... the cost question aside, that'd be downright EVIL. Anyone know of any VODs with good infested drops? Probably are almost none, 'cuz almost nobody uses Queens. I've used infested drops on many many occasions. It's hardly ever successful. I've definitely had games where I killed ~10 scvs or 10 marines with a dropped infested, and what is even more fun is dropping two infesteds to get the CC down to 500 and then infesting it. But in all honesty, if you take into consideration the total damage caused by the ~500 infested terrans I've ever built in 1v1 games, it's probably been like, one third of the cost of said infested terrans. I have won games with them though but overall infesteds are a terrible - but very fun- infestment. And yeah, infested terrans are ridiculously overpowered zvp. (Not really a design flaw seeing as how it's a pretty unnatural matchup  ) Reaver is the only kinda-counter there is, and even then you're occasionally gonna be screwed by dumb scarabs. | ||
|
B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
| ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6555 Posts
| ||
|
Liquid`Drone
Norway28637 Posts
If you manage to combine it with dark swarm it's absolutely deadly but even then - marines are prolly doing 8 or 9 damage to the overlord, a group of 8-9 marines can 3-shot it, so it really hinges on a) some distraction unit that draws fire and b) terran not being up to what you are doing and targeting the overlord. and then the perhaps biggest issue is that you are trying to drop an infested terran and retarget rather than throwing down another dark swarm (or seeing as how you have queens - ensnare ), burrowing or unburrowing lurkers, scourging vessels or whatever else that's probably going to be a better use of your time. But hey, I've always maintained that better and faster players than me would be able to have even more success with queen use..  | ||
|
[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On July 11 2016 06:26 jello_biafra wrote: I'd recommend searching for games on the map Holy World, pretty sure that was the one with the neutral CC you could infest in the middle. Turns out infested terrans are much more effective in ZvP than ZvT. Good idea. Thanks, JB. | ||
|
ii.blitzkrieg
Canada1122 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + beat down you guys are probably talking about?: + Show Spoiler + | ||
|
Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On July 09 2016 20:16 Basti1 wrote: The last days I feel that my gaming goes really downward, I had alot of improvement the weeks befor that. But now I feel like my mechanics are slower and my think process seems to be less sharp. I have been training alot from 4-7 hours each day. The question is now, is it possibly better to take a break or to push through the slump? How do you normally fight through performance slumps? thanks for any input take a break when you get the feeling you are getting no where or can't give it 100% anymore. Only a couple of dys, not a whole week, as you don't want to lose ground on what you recently reached. That or play less stressful. Games against friends, 2v2, funmaps, whatever is less stresful for you. | ||
|
LetaBot
Netherlands557 Posts
And how do you protect these expansions from attacks without having your main attack force be to weak? Also when a protoss goes 13 Nexus, can he then stop you from going  1 Factory Double Expand (vs. Protoss) ? | ||
|
Wrath
3174 Posts
On July 15 2016 21:19 LetaBot wrote: When do you expand as terran in TvZ, TvP and TvT? And how do you protect these expansions from attacks without having your main attack force be to weak? Also when a protoss goes 13 Nexus, can he then stop you from going 1 Factory Double Expand (vs. Protoss) ?TvZ, you take natural. if you saw him expanding and not massing lings at you. When you get enough marines and pass the muta phase. Try to contain him with bio force. Then do mech switch and try to take double expansions behind while still containing. TvT. I have no idea. Just make sure you are containing him and try to expand and make sure no drops will fuck you up and your territories are secure. TvP. Normal FD will get your expanding slightly inline with Protoss expansion. Your third will come about 8 min mark after getting the 2nd factory and getting some tanks for defense against the attacking goon force that will try to snipe your cc. He will have observers by that time so he will know how to time it. I'm not sure about the 13 nexus. But the best option just bunker rush, once you can take down the nexus, go back and try to play safe from there, be sure he won't 1 base all in you while you are being greedy. | ||
|
LetaBot
Netherlands557 Posts
On July 16 2016 07:53 Wrath wrote: TvZ, you take natural. if you saw him expanding and not massing lings at you. When you get enough marines and pass the muta phase. Try to contain him with bio force. Then do mech switch and try to take double expansions behind while still containing. TvT. I have no idea. Just make sure you are containing him and try to expand and make sure no drops will fuck you up and your territories are secure. TvP. Normal FD will get your expanding slightly inline with Protoss expansion. Your third will come about 8 min mark after getting the 2nd factory and getting some tanks for defense against the attacking goon force that will try to snipe your cc. He will have observers by that time so he will know how to time it. I'm not sure about the 13 nexus. But the best option just bunker rush, once you can take down the nexus, go back and try to play safe from there, be sure he won't 1 base all in you while you are being greedy. What about the 3rd or 4th base? are there any guidelines for that? | ||
|
Highgamer
1405 Posts
Obviously, when to expand is relative to your opening/strategy of choice. As an overall guideline I would say this: In the non-mirrors, Terran never needs more bases than the opponent to win, yet Terran cannot win a long war of attrition if their opponents are ahead in base-count. So, you try to get your natural up to match your opponents natural. With the regular openings it's relatively safe, and by doing so, you put pressure on your opponent to expand further (as Terran is fine with 2base vs 2base, theoretically...). Whether you keep on expanding depends on whether or not you can hit a good timing on 2 base or not: that means whether you can send out an army soon enough that is stronger and more cost-efficient so that it can overwhelm the opponents forces. Taking more bases than your opponent early on is very risky, because Terran has the lowest production rate for the longest part of the game. Zerg and Protoss feel the need to take a faster 3rd, but they can also dare to do so more easily. The natural is being taken as prescribed in the build-order and opening strategy, either greedy or safely or behind a little push/harrass. As for the 3rd, it can also be specifically outlined in the build-order, like e.g. for the 2/1upgrade-200supply-push from 3 bases in TvP: + Show Spoiler + Roughly speaking: After you took your natural and secured it with turrets if needed, you get a second factory, an armory and +1 attack, and then you can start your 3rd CC in the main. Using speed-vultures and mines for map-control is essential to safely take your 3rd. Sometimes you can take the 3rd earlier (and right on location) if Protoss is being greedy; sometimes you should delay your 3rd and go for more factories if Protoss is not taking a 3rd. Generally speaking though, I would say that in TvP, picking the right time for your 3rd is an art of it's own, much more so than in the other matchups. There is so much room for good (and: bad) preparation and decision making here, you can see that if you compare Flash to other Terrans. Very broadly speaking, you either go for a 2base-push while taking your own 3rd, OR you grab your third straight away in anticipation of/in response to a semi-early 3rd from Protoss. From here on, you're fine with 3bases (if they all have gas) for a while as far as income is concerned - and it's really hard for Terran to defend far-out 4th bases on most maps. So you wait until you can make your big push and then secure a 4th and maybe 5th while Protoss is occupied defending. If your push loses steam too early then even taking the 4th can be problematic. In TvZ grabbing an early 3rd just doesn't work because you don't want to give Zerg a free 4 base economy, I think. Afaik, the 2base-bio-style you see in 99% of TvZs is taylored around the idea of keeping the pressure high so that Z cannot just drone up and tech like crazy on 3bases. Therefore you press as much money and production out of 2bases as you can, apply max pressure, while taking one or even two bases at once a bit later as you have enough map-control to do the mech-switch. I guess if you go mech early you also take your 3rd earlier, but I have no experience with this. In TvT taking an early 3rd creates the chance for your opponent to lock you down on 3 bases for the rest of the game which is very bad for you. Also you're very vulnerable to drops if you have 3 bases too early. So generally you see both players staying on 2base for a while, powering out units to fight for a favorable position on the map (siege-lines) and/or defend stuff like drops/air-play. At some point gas will be scarce and minerals will pile up, then it's the right time to start taking 3rd, 4th and so on. When you have 3-4 bases rolling and due to the strong defender's advantage in TvT, players quickly secure as many bases as they can once resources allow it. edit: on the defense-question: A) Exactly because Terran is forced to move out at some point with as big of a push as possible, it's crucial to not take more bases than necessary too early, but rather take the ones you need asap early on to have your timing ready before the opponent is strong enough to afford attacks on your expansion without giving your push free reign. Sometimes it's better to sacrifice a base (lift and evacuate SCVs) for a while and keep on pushing. B) Terran has probably the biggest potential to maximise defenses with minimal units, like 1-2 well placed tanks per base, maybe a bunker, many turrets and mines, a tight wall, repair and scv-blocking. Support units have to be sent to help from the rally point. Sometimes a well placed Vessel (with EMP) or wraith or valkyrie can shut down shuttles, arbiters, guardians etc. The problem is that mere mortals hardly have the multi-tasking and control to do all that shit, especially in TvP, but that's how the pros do it. In TvZ you can literally defend for the win once you have split the map. | ||
|
B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
The zealots also make me waste so much time with my hydras chasing them or me microing them to avoid them from getting killed that he can get enough cannons up in time. Then he just goes for early leg speed and makes my life hard. | ||
|
Liquid`Drone
Norway28637 Posts
3 hatch from 2 base however should be really good, his tech ends up being super slow and you can drone up heavily while waiting for hydra speed to kick in, at which point you can push him back, take your third and enter mid game in a really healthy position. I do think that if he does 2 gate before core, you should abandon any plans for killing him with a hydra bust, rather focus on getting 3 bases with full lair tech; if he 2 gates before core he can't really triple tech, so either mutas dominate non-corsair, hydras dominate lacking templar, or lurkers dominate lacking observer. Watch out for maelstrom I guess- when I've noticed that I couldn't get air control, that is one way I've somewhat frequently managed to stage a comeback. | ||
|
StarFoxeR
68 Posts
| ||
|
Highgamer
1405 Posts
On July 18 2016 08:13 StarFoxeR wrote: I have a couple replays any advice on where I can post them that maybe someone will take a look and maybe help me out ? Also do I upload them somewhere or ? Generally people like you just make a thread, ask for advice on their play and post a link to the replays (you can upload them on a somewhat trustworthy free-upload-page, just search for "free upload" in your search-enginge of choice; iccup.com has a replay-upload-option, too, but for me it's all in russian...). It would be good if in your OP you wrote something about what exactly you think your problem is or what you want advice on, but don't expect people to only comment on that. Also, name your thread in an appropriate, informative way (NOT "replay, need help", but rather "[H] TvP dealing with shuttle harrass" or "ZvP lategame strategy" something like that, unless it's really general opinions about your game that you want). | ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6555 Posts
On July 18 2016 06:37 B-royal wrote: If you go 3 hatch hydra against protoss and he went 2nd gate before cyber core, is this supposed to be advantageous for you or bad? In my opinion it should be very good for me, but the zealots hit very early such that i'm forced to make a lot of lings making me strapped for cash. The zealots often are also able to scout the den earlier than normal. The zealots also make me waste so much time with my hydras chasing them or me microing them to avoid them from getting killed that he can get enough cannons up in time. Then he just goes for early leg speed and makes my life hard. lets hunt pokemons :D,zvt vs mech is impossible ^^ | ||
| ||
