• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:27
CEST 12:27
KST 19:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup5StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)66Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2316
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup Back to SC2 after 14 years - Protoss CTRL groups? How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? October World Ranking: herO stays #1, ByuN returns StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ]
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
Fantasy returning? Bot on ladder Sagi.gg Launcher Released BSL Season 23 BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4 2v2v2v2 Tournament [ASL22] Ro8 Day 3
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12343 users

Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 15

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 13 14 15 16 17 488 Next
JMave
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Singapore1806 Posts
July 04 2011 09:53 GMT
#281
On July 04 2011 18:01 edc wrote:
Is the Dragoon the main part of the Protoss army composition? I am very new with BW, and I'm very sorry if my question is terribly obvious to answer.

Yes. most seen in PvT where goons are around until mid-game where you throw in different units to complete your most effective composition against them.

vP and vZ also constitutes dragoons but also doesn't entirely depend on them depending on your opening. vZ doesn't usually gets goons until after templar tech and vP doesn't get goons out that fast if you open with DTs.
火心 Jealous. I always loved that feeling when I was young. Embrace it.
JMave
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Singapore1806 Posts
July 04 2011 14:55 GMT
#282
On July 04 2011 09:01 pedrotrv wrote:
After defending a Two fact push as toss, it's always safe to counter the terran?

do you mean counter attack? i think it depends on the situation and when you counter his attack. if you break off his contain with minimal losses and you didn't lose your nat, then you are far far ahead in the econ game. it would be wise to macro up a bit first then pushing out with a shuttle loaded with zealots to deal with tanks on the cliffs and stuff.

if you destroy his attack before he manages to get a contain, then you can probably win it if you manage to snipe off all the tanks and not step on mines.
火心 Jealous. I always loved that feeling when I was young. Embrace it.
Dagon
Profile Joined August 2010
Romania264 Posts
July 04 2011 16:59 GMT
#283
Hey, quick question.

If I use cloning with my vessels to irradiate more lufkers at once, can I scan a far away area under the fog, and use cloning there? Or do my vessels lose their target once the fog grows back on after the scan expires?
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6642 Posts
July 04 2011 17:50 GMT
#284
On July 05 2011 01:59 Dagon wrote:
Hey, quick question.

If I use cloning with my vessels to irradiate more lufkers at once, can I scan a far away area under the fog, and use cloning there? Or do my vessels lose their target once the fog grows back on after the scan expires?

You can do it, they will irradiate regardless.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
Danger_Duck
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Burkina Faso571 Posts
July 04 2011 23:27 GMT
#285
On July 04 2011 23:55 JMave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2011 09:01 pedrotrv wrote:
After defending a Two fact push as toss, it's always safe to counter the terran?

do you mean counter attack? i think it depends on the situation and when you counter his attack. if you break off his contain with minimal losses and you didn't lose your nat, then you are far far ahead in the econ game. it would be wise to macro up a bit first then pushing out with a shuttle loaded with zealots to deal with tanks on the cliffs and stuff.

if you destroy his attack before he manages to get a contain, then you can probably win it if you manage to snipe off all the tanks and not step on mines.


Usually no. 2 fact usually consists of mines, with seige followup. Goons cannot break even 1 properly placed seige tank after a push. Best choice is to get a 3rd up, and sit outside his natural..

A more uncommon but effective choice is to bulldog to victory right after
TBA
Danger_Duck
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Burkina Faso571 Posts
July 04 2011 23:43 GMT
#286
On July 04 2011 18:53 JMave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2011 18:01 edc wrote:
Is the Dragoon the main part of the Protoss army composition? I am very new with BW, and I'm very sorry if my question is terribly obvious to answer.

Yes. most seen in PvT where goons are around until mid-game where you throw in different units to complete your most effective composition against them.

vP and vZ also constitutes dragoons but also doesn't entirely depend on them depending on your opening. vZ doesn't usually gets goons until after templar tech and vP doesn't get goons out that fast if you open with DTs.


vZ definitely not main. Zealots are the main part of your composition, and goons are really only to counter lurkers, keeping ovies out of the open, and deal extra damage to kiting units
TBA
JMave
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Singapore1806 Posts
July 05 2011 01:08 GMT
#287
On July 05 2011 08:43 Danger_Duck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2011 18:53 JMave wrote:
On July 04 2011 18:01 edc wrote:
Is the Dragoon the main part of the Protoss army composition? I am very new with BW, and I'm very sorry if my question is terribly obvious to answer.

Yes. most seen in PvT where goons are around until mid-game where you throw in different units to complete your most effective composition against them.

vP and vZ also constitutes dragoons but also doesn't entirely depend on them depending on your opening. vZ doesn't usually gets goons until after templar tech and vP doesn't get goons out that fast if you open with DTs.


vZ definitely not main. Zealots are the main part of your composition, and goons are really only to counter lurkers, keeping ovies out of the open, and deal extra damage to kiting units


did you read what i said? i didn't say it was the main composition. and you are wrong as well. zealots are not your main composition in pvz. when you reach late game, you hardly ever make more than 1 group of them.
火心 Jealous. I always loved that feeling when I was young. Embrace it.
JMave
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Singapore1806 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 01:23:21
July 05 2011 01:12 GMT
#288
On July 05 2011 08:27 Danger_Duck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2011 23:55 JMave wrote:
On July 04 2011 09:01 pedrotrv wrote:
After defending a Two fact push as toss, it's always safe to counter the terran?

do you mean counter attack? i think it depends on the situation and when you counter his attack. if you break off his contain with minimal losses and you didn't lose your nat, then you are far far ahead in the econ game. it would be wise to macro up a bit first then pushing out with a shuttle loaded with zealots to deal with tanks on the cliffs and stuff.

if you destroy his attack before he manages to get a contain, then you can probably win it if you manage to snipe off all the tanks and not step on mines.


Usually no. 2 fact usually consists of mines, with seige followup. Goons cannot break even 1 properly placed seige tank after a push. Best choice is to get a 3rd up, and sit outside his natural..

A more uncommon but effective choice is to bulldog to victory right after



edit: on second thought, i think countering 2 fac and all is very situation dependent and it would be hard to give a solid answer.
火心 Jealous. I always loved that feeling when I was young. Embrace it.
NationInArms
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1553 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 18:59:55
July 05 2011 05:10 GMT
#289
What's more standard/better/macro-oriented/popular; the TvZ 9 Minute build or the 1 Vessel 3 Tank Push? I want a more macro intensive and standard build that's good for beginners for TvZ and these are the best two I've heard about.

answers anybody? or has this already been asked.
BW for life | Fantasy, MMA, SlayerS_Boxer | Taengoo! n_n | "Lelouch vi Britannia commands you! Obey me, subjects! OBEY ME, WORLD!" | <3 Emi
Magus
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada450 Posts
July 05 2011 08:35 GMT
#290
On July 05 2011 10:08 JMave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2011 08:43 Danger_Duck wrote:
On July 04 2011 18:53 JMave wrote:
On July 04 2011 18:01 edc wrote:
Is the Dragoon the main part of the Protoss army composition? I am very new with BW, and I'm very sorry if my question is terribly obvious to answer.

Yes. most seen in PvT where goons are around until mid-game where you throw in different units to complete your most effective composition against them.

vP and vZ also constitutes dragoons but also doesn't entirely depend on them depending on your opening. vZ doesn't usually gets goons until after templar tech and vP doesn't get goons out that fast if you open with DTs.


vZ definitely not main. Zealots are the main part of your composition, and goons are really only to counter lurkers, keeping ovies out of the open, and deal extra damage to kiting units


did you read what i said? i didn't say it was the main composition. and you are wrong as well. zealots are not your main composition in pvz. when you reach late game, you hardly ever make more than 1 group of them.

Late game armies are primarily zealot/archon/templar with a few goons...

Plague and swarm and cracklings >>> Goons.

Early and midgame is all about zealots and storm too.
Mortician
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Bulgaria2332 Posts
July 05 2011 09:27 GMT
#291
On July 05 2011 17:35 Magus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2011 10:08 JMave wrote:
On July 05 2011 08:43 Danger_Duck wrote:
On July 04 2011 18:53 JMave wrote:
On July 04 2011 18:01 edc wrote:
Is the Dragoon the main part of the Protoss army composition? I am very new with BW, and I'm very sorry if my question is terribly obvious to answer.

Yes. most seen in PvT where goons are around until mid-game where you throw in different units to complete your most effective composition against them.

vP and vZ also constitutes dragoons but also doesn't entirely depend on them depending on your opening. vZ doesn't usually gets goons until after templar tech and vP doesn't get goons out that fast if you open with DTs.


vZ definitely not main. Zealots are the main part of your composition, and goons are really only to counter lurkers, keeping ovies out of the open, and deal extra damage to kiting units


did you read what i said? i didn't say it was the main composition. and you are wrong as well. zealots are not your main composition in pvz. when you reach late game, you hardly ever make more than 1 group of them.

Late game armies are primarily zealot/archon/templar with a few goons...

Plague and swarm and cracklings >>> Goons.

Early and midgame is all about zealots and storm too.


it all really, REALLY depends on the game, but most of the time when you are on 4 bases you start massing reavers and goons compliment reavers well
"If anything, the skill cap in sc2 is higher [than sc1] because there are a lot more things you can do at one given time. " darmousseh
JMave
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Singapore1806 Posts
July 05 2011 10:41 GMT
#292
On July 05 2011 17:35 Magus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2011 10:08 JMave wrote:
On July 05 2011 08:43 Danger_Duck wrote:
On July 04 2011 18:53 JMave wrote:
On July 04 2011 18:01 edc wrote:
Is the Dragoon the main part of the Protoss army composition? I am very new with BW, and I'm very sorry if my question is terribly obvious to answer.

Yes. most seen in PvT where goons are around until mid-game where you throw in different units to complete your most effective composition against them.

vP and vZ also constitutes dragoons but also doesn't entirely depend on them depending on your opening. vZ doesn't usually gets goons until after templar tech and vP doesn't get goons out that fast if you open with DTs.


vZ definitely not main. Zealots are the main part of your composition, and goons are really only to counter lurkers, keeping ovies out of the open, and deal extra damage to kiting units


did you read what i said? i didn't say it was the main composition. and you are wrong as well. zealots are not your main composition in pvz. when you reach late game, you hardly ever make more than 1 group of them.

Late game armies are primarily zealot/archon/templar with a few goons...

Plague and swarm and cracklings >>> Goons.

Early and midgame is all about zealots and storm too.

again, its zealot/archon/templar and not strictly zealots. zealots are so inefficient once zerg gets hive and his upgrades. cracklings are also > zealots btw.
火心 Jealous. I always loved that feeling when I was young. Embrace it.
don_kyuhote
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
3007 Posts
July 05 2011 14:17 GMT
#293
If you are protoss and you go 1 gate core double expand against siege expand terran, what are you most afraid of?
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6642 Posts
July 05 2011 16:37 GMT
#294
On July 05 2011 23:17 don_kyuhote wrote:
If you are protoss and you go 1 gate core double expand against siege expand terran, what are you most afraid of?

Either the fast 2 fact follow up or a fast vulture drop.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
Xanatoss
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany539 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 18:08:12
July 05 2011 18:00 GMT
#295
Is there a widely approved method of Observer control in PvT? I used to have them grouped with my Dragoon control groups but they tend to fly into Turrets as I engage fortified positions. On the other hand, if I let them follow a goon of the group I have to recollect and allocate them after each engagement and they tend to be to sluggish so that goons risk running into mines until Obs catches up.

In addition, how much Damage has a Reaver-Harass into Expand Opening to deal (PvT) in order to be at least equal (Econ) versus 2 Gate Range Expand (Bisu/Oov opening). Assuming that the T is Siege Expanding or 1 Rax Expanding.
The chair slowly turns around. You see his face, but it can't be. He's not supposed to be here. Not him. Not a Protoss. Not THAT Protoss. MC says, "Hi Greg, long time no see." You back slowly out of the booth. But you can't. It's already forcefielded.
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6642 Posts
July 05 2011 18:05 GMT
#296
On July 06 2011 03:00 Xanatoss wrote:
Is there a widely approved method of Observer control in PvT? I used to have them grouped with my Dragoon control groups but they tend to fly into Turrets as I engage fortified positions. On the other hand, if I let them follow a goon of the group I have to recollect and allocate them after each engagement and they tend to be to sluggish so that goons risk running into mines until Obs catches up.

I think people generally group them with the dragoons, 1 per group of 11 goons, but you still have to micro it a bit manually, especially before you get obs speed.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
tedster
Profile Joined May 2009
984 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 18:47:30
July 05 2011 18:47 GMT
#297
On July 05 2011 23:17 don_kyuhote wrote:
If you are protoss and you go 1 gate core double expand against siege expand terran, what are you most afraid of?


It depends on the map but if they anticipate/scout well a fast 2fact can be killer. Hardcore vulture harass can be very difficult to deal with on some maps/positions especially if they went quick dropships.

wups beaten
the last wcs commissioner
tedster
Profile Joined May 2009
984 Posts
July 05 2011 18:50 GMT
#298
On July 06 2011 03:00 Xanatoss wrote:
In addition, how much Damage has a Reaver-Harass into Expand Opening to deal (PvT) in order to be at least equal (Econ) versus 2 Gate Range Expand (Bisu/Oov opening). Assuming that the T is Siege Expanding or 1 Rax Expanding.


It's tricky to tell since you are ostensibly getting a tech advantage as well, but you have to do some pretty serious damage nowadays. Especially with the popularity of Rax-Expand, Terran can have such an enormous econ advantage that it's very difficult to catch up with a fast Reaver into expand these days, and it's just a lot less common than it used to be. Take a look at Stork's build leading up to his last OSL silver for a good idea of what has to happen for a fast Reaver opening to work.
the last wcs commissioner
djbhINDI
Profile Joined June 2011
United States372 Posts
July 05 2011 20:29 GMT
#299
Hey guys,
Where can I find a guide on how to use ICCUP? (Channels, Friends, Messages, etc.)
Thanks in advance
You can't emphasize enough how much you need to be a paradigm shifter. - Savior
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
July 05 2011 23:23 GMT
#300
When i scout an early pool as T should i always send scvs to block the ramp?
If yes how many? And how should i control the blocking SCVs?
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
Prev 1 13 14 15 16 17 488 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Sparkling Tuna Cup
19:00
Weekly #149 (SHIN Mod Edition)
Krystianer vs TBD
CranKy Ducklings96
CranKy Ducklings SOOP15
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 9485
FanTaSy 1230
Hyuk 747
Horang2 590
BeSt 466
Stork 202
Pusan 181
Zeus 97
sorry 95
Killer 94
[ Show more ]
Mind 88
Last 75
Shinee 70
Hyun 67
ggaemo 44
PianO 42
Snow 36
Bale 35
ToSsGirL 29
Hm[arnc] 28
JYJ 23
Sacsri 14
Aegong 7
EffOrt 6
Noble 5
Dota 2
XcaliburYe138
Counter-Strike
byalli1147
fl0m250
x6flipin120
Other Games
gofns35622
singsing2327
Mew2King78
ArmadaUGS74
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick686
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream137
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 58
• Adnapsc2 15
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 12
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2282
League of Legends
• Lourlo1179
Upcoming Events
INu's Battles
1h 33m
herO vs Classic
Percival vs Rogue
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
4h 33m
MilkiCow vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
BSL Open Qualifier
8h 33m
BSL Open Qualifier
8h 33m
Replay Cast
12h 33m
Afreeca Starleague
23h 33m
Rush vs Light
WardiTV Weekly
1d
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 5h
Replay Cast
1d 12h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 23h
Soma vs Soulkey
[ Show More ]
INu's Battles
2 days
SHIN vs Cure
ByuN vs Zoun
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
INu's Battles
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Copium Cup
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.