EPT[H, D] going hydra/lurk tvz
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DarkSaieden
South Africa254 Posts
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leejas
United States440 Posts
I'd play Hydra/Lurk similar to how Terran plays mech. You really wouldn't want to swarm way too much. Using a lot of plague to discourage the Terran would be a key component. Then use your lurkers to push up slowly, and with a lot of Hydras plagued vessels are a very minor issue. It would depend greatly on your opening; it might be more viable to avoid a muta opening in this case. It's a very passive game, whittling down the Terran as he moves in. You'll be looking to play a "zone control" style type game, holding ground and pushing when he backs off. Muta openings are only effective if you have the micro to support them. You'd play a muta opening against someone who has similar to lower micro ability as you. Most terrans know how to block muta openings now, so if you can turtle them in effectively with a lurker opening (I'd move for a 2hatch, then double expand) you'd be ahead later on. Backstab with a large force before your hydra army gets up if they try to push into your expo(s). Go hive as you secure your fourth gas only though. Make sure you keep the Terran gas starved; If you are up at least 1-2gases, he'd have to split his gas between tanks and vessels. Expect to see TONS of tanks later on; thats the ideal counter to this. You're going to be fighting a gas war. | ||
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MapleLeafSirup
Germany950 Posts
Adding hydras at this point instead of teching to ultras is a very good strategy indeed. You are much more dangerous for a terran opponent f you mix upgraded hydralisks in your ling/lurk/defiler army because plague becomes a huge threat. But you have to consider that this is more micro-intensive than going for ultralisks because defilers play an even bigger role. Don't do this if terran goes for a tank-heavy build ofc, hydras are supposed to counter SK terran. Going for pure hydra lurk is a strategy for the midgame. SK terrans will get crushed completely if they don't scout it properly and a) go for SK terran with a lack of tanks b) attack too early This strategy is really macro-based. Get upgrades off two evolution chambers and a late hive because you need the money. Focus your play on flanking the terran army in a good position. It will be tough to kill his base but you should be able to kill his army several times. Just focus a macro-based play in the midgame and try to starve him out if you cannot counter him. Be patient and take the map. While getting 2-2 you might be able to tech to hive for defiler but you need a lot of gas for it. If he scouts what you are doing you could be screwed. He will get more tanks and less vessels and attack later. The usual timing push against standard fast hive tech will fail horribly against hydra lurk in midgame. Be aware of this fact and hide your hydras from scan. Building a queen's nest for fake hive tech might be a good trick against thinking opponents. | ||
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DarkSaieden
South Africa254 Posts
I have had success with the late game hydra switch. Some times all you need is just a single control group of hydra to back up the lurk/ling/defiler and push into the nat. On medusa its particularly effective as you can flank his entire main and nat if you get up the back door. Also, how go about hydra before third for a nat bust, if its at all possible? Idea being to waste scans, snipe turrets and possibly bunkers, ravage nat with lurks. | ||
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
On April 16 2010 17:50 leejas wrote: Hydra/lurk TvZ is suuuuuuper gas heavy, then factoring defilers and you're gonna look for a very greedy build opening. I'd want to know how you would go about securing all the bases and resources you would need to go Hydra/Lurk. I'd play Hydra/Lurk similar to how Terran plays mech. You really wouldn't want to swarm way too much. Using a lot of plague to discourage the Terran would be a key component. Then use your lurkers to push up slowly, and with a lot of Hydras plagued vessels are a very minor issue. It would depend greatly on your opening; it might be more viable to avoid a muta opening in this case. It's a very passive game, whittling down the Terran as he moves in. You'll be looking to play a "zone control" style type game, holding ground and pushing when he backs off. Muta openings are only effective if you have the micro to support them. You'd play a muta opening against someone who has similar to lower micro ability as you. Most terrans know how to block muta openings now, so if you can turtle them in effectively with a lurker opening (I'd move for a 2hatch, then double expand) you'd be ahead later on. Backstab with a large force before your hydra army gets up if they try to push into your expo(s). Go hive as you secure your fourth gas only though. Make sure you keep the Terran gas starved; If you are up at least 1-2gases, he'd have to split his gas between tanks and vessels. Expect to see TONS of tanks later on; thats the ideal counter to this. You're going to be fighting a gas war. Don't do this. You're going to play hydra lurker similar to the way you play ling lurker, with hydras taking the role of lings. Essentially they're support units like lings are but with more damage potential. With ling lurker ou're just looking for more map control to get your 4th gas, defilers and ultras. It's really only used for attacking if you gain a good advantage and feel like pressing it like JD does here With hydra lurker you're pretty much going to use that unit composition for a long time, and it only works on maps with backyard expos that zerg can grab freely (outsider, judgement day, medusa, etc). The reason is because you need way more money to pull it of. As for how to play, I think Jaedong gives the best demonstration of how to use hydra / lurker in this game. On top of that this games just really fucking awesome. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmobXYMqXx8 My last bit of advice is you shouldn't shy away from what you suck at. If you suck at muta micro and scourging then work on that instead of avoid it altogether cause hydra lurker isnt really that applicable on a majority of maps. | ||
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DarkSaieden
South Africa254 Posts
my muta micro is ok if im playing enough games. my issue with scourging is that i find it takes a lot of my attention compared to just keeping my defilers near my hydra force (if i have 3+ groups of hyda, i just add a defiler into each control group) i played a game earlier (forgot to save rep  ) where my opponent went for a very fast 2 tank, 2 vult marine push which managed to survive JUST in time (3 sunks, 12 lings waiting in the middle, lurks on main ramp), and then i moved out took another base, and went on for 30 min with him in his nat (snuck in an island expo tho) and me taking over the map, defending his mech harass and eventually BC which took out most of my main, but i was just so ahead at that point.next im gonna try to go 2 hatch -> double expo and see how that feels. | ||
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
On April 16 2010 22:10 DarkSaieden wrote: thanks for all the help. my muta micro is ok if im playing enough games. my issue with scourging is that i find it takes a lot of my attention compared to just keeping my defilers near my hydra force (if i have 3+ groups of hyda, i just add a defiler into each control group) i played a game earlier (forgot to save rep ) where my opponent went for a very fast 2 tank, 2 vult marine push which managed to survive JUST in time (3 sunks, 12 lings waiting in the middle, lurks on main ramp), and then i moved out took another base, and went on for 30 min with him in his nat (snuck in an island expo tho) and me taking over the map, defending his mech harass and eventually BC which took out most of my main, but i was just so ahead at that point.next im gonna try to go 2 hatch -> double expo and see how that feels. Just keep your scourge near you defilers? I think most of your defilers are gonan get irradiated anyway. As a terra I'm generally willing to sacrifice a vessel if it means taking out a defiler at a key place. | ||
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rockslave
Brazil318 Posts
On April 16 2010 21:36 SubtleArt wrote: With hydra lurker you're pretty much going to use that unit composition for a long time, and it only works on maps with backyard expos that zerg can grab freely (outsider, judgement day, medusa, etc). The reason is because you need way more money to pull it of. As for how to play, I think Jaedong gives the best demonstration of how to use hydra / lurker in this game. On top of that this games just really fucking awesome. You posted the same link twice! | ||
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Likkzi
Poland72 Posts
One of the sickest ZvT performances in record. Hydralisk/Lurker combo included. | ||
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Blind
United States2529 Posts
12/17 hatch 11/17 pool 13/18 hatch 3 pairs of lings to get 15/18 lings 15/18 drone 16/18 overlord 2 drones to get to 18/18 At this point, I get my first extractor, and a second extractor very soon after (I don't have a set BO at this point. I try to feel it out). First 100 gas I get lair, and when resources permit, evol chamber, followed by den, followed by another evol chamber. How fast you get these depend on how aggressive the Terran is being. If he's being too aggressive, you'll have to make colonies and obviously the tech buildings will be delayed. If you'd like to play a really passive style, I've also tried double evol chamber with upgrades before lair. The upgrades will be done pretty quick, and then you can start on getting 2/2 upgrades soon after too as the lair will be finished soon. Your lurkers will be delayed though. This is a bit more gimmicky than the previous build, but I've had some success with it as well. Whatever you choose, here are some of my thoughts on hydra/lurk: - Emphasize economy and upgrades. Once I get lurker tech, I stay on the defensive side while double expanding for 4 bases total. - Make sure you micro in battles E.g., as his marines run away from your lurker, try to pick the off with hydras. Have your hydras target tanks while lurkers target m&m. - Positioning is especially important as it's difficult to engage him if he's playing a tank-heavy army in response. If he's attacking one of your expansions across the map, position some of your units in between his base and his army so that it's hard for him to reinforce. This also allows for a nice flank as you can approach his army from his back and his front. Double factory tanks eat up hydra/lurk, so try not to engage unless he's unsieged and moving towards your base. | ||
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
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DarkSaieden
South Africa254 Posts
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
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