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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
Analysis: As in the previous game versus a C rank Zerg I can't seem to withstand a mass mutalisk build even with enough turrets. You see the thing is that I attempted a half-assed Ayumi/Rush build in order to exploit him but I still got my ass raped. Furthermore, when i tried more attacks, he constantly destroyed me... I tried to mass up but by then he went 4 base Crazy Zerg fast. Questions: ... besides the mess up with the early build. What did I do wrong? | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17726 Posts
A good example of this strategy in use is Flash vs Typeb on eye of the storm. Really study this game. If the best terran in the world reacts to crazy zerg like this you should too. After learning how to use this, im now pretty confident against crazy zerg while it was like my kryptonite before. Of course before you can even use this your macro has to be good. If you have bad scv production in mid game your all in isnt going to be as strong. It still will pack a punch though. Thats the beauty of this strategy. Theres a period when zerg only has muta ling or their ultra production hasnt reached that critical mass+full ups yet. They will be very vulnerable at that point. I cant see your rep since im at school. Ayumi if not scouted by your opponent would have killed him upright or killed his nat hatch if you executed your build perfectly. If you're asking about the build playing with your build in single player until its perfect or playing your friends on team melee while trying to execute your build is the best bet. The goal is to have your build engrained by muscle memory. The ideal is being able to the build in your sleep. The goal with team melee is since if someone is controlling they're going to be harassing with lings and trying to mess you up with pressure. You have to learn to deal with pressure while executing your build. Its almost like playing an A level player mechanics wise. I dont think ayumi isnt actually really that good with the all in 8 rax strat since you cut scvs so early. But im pretty sure if you executed the build perfectly you would be so ahead that you will probably kill your opponent with your second attack when hes trying to redrone. If you fail with the build theres not much you can do. You cut scvs really early to kill or cripple the zerg its a price you pay. | ||
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rackdude
United States882 Posts
User was warned for this post. | ||
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stambe
Bulgaria492 Posts
On March 25 2010 09:48 kineSiS- wrote: Link: http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=33721 Analysis: As in the previous game versus a C rank Zerg I can't seem to withstand a mass mutalisk build even with enough turrets. You see the thing is that I attempted a half-assed Ayumi/Rush build in order to exploit him but I still got my ass raped. Furthermore, when i tried more attacks, he constantly destroyed me... I tried to mass up but by then he went 4 base Crazy Zerg fast. Questions: ... besides the mess up with the early build. What did I do wrong? Can someone clear it up what an Ayumi/Rush build is exactly ? | ||
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Trowabarton756
United States870 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On March 26 2010 02:29 stambe wrote: Can someone clear it up what an Ayumi/Rush build is exactly ? In short it's 1rax fe -> build 3rax more before refinery, then academy, then attack when stim is finished. I haven't watched the replay and I hate replying to threads when I haven't watched an attached replay, but just from reading the OP it seems like there's something seriously wrong with his initial approach of "half-ass[ing]" a timing attack build beyond anything else. You can't half-ass a build when the build focuses everything around one single timing attack. If you're going to do it you have to do it, and if you're not, then you just shouldn't even try. If you fail with the ayumi attack then you are really behind as you have a low scv count and you are behind in tech, and the upcoming mutalisks will bother you much more and for a much longer period of time than they would in a normal 1rax fe vs 3hatch muta game. | ||
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commiboi
United States74 Posts
Just some things I noticed. - The ayumi timing was way late, but you can still use your force to pressure - Think your micro vs mutas could have been better, you let him get some free marine kills with muta - I think a big mistake is going to his nat, you could have used your force to pressure his third. He got got free kills from the sunken, took out your force, and managed to safely get a 3rd. Usually you want to take out expos before going for his main. -You have low scv saturation around 8:30, dunno if it was cus of cutting scvs for ayumi or not making any -The battle at 11:40ish, your marines were split and were in a line formation away form medics. You need to have your marines and medics clumped when you are fighting muta/ling. Also firebats do wonders, forgetting bats vs muta ling is one big mistake I make >.> -late ves Btw, Im just a D+ ish Z/T player so take my advice with a grain of salt ^^ | ||
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
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zobz
Canada2175 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On March 30 2010 02:08 kineSiS- wrote: Could anyone link to this game....? Cause it seems like there are several games of Flash versus TypeB. . . . there's only one Flash vs type-b game. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On March 30 2010 02:54 zobz wrote: I heard "crazy zerg" mentioned in hyung jun becomes a progamer too. Is it 12 pool/gas muta to four base lurker, or muta to ultra? 2 hatch mass muta to 4 base ultra while getting evo ups | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
On March 30 2010 03:27 koreasilver wrote: Huh? Where does someone go 2hatch mass muta into 4hatch ultras skipping lurkers and defilers? And since was anything other than 3hatch into fast hive skipping lurkers called crazy zerg? Trust me, 2 Hatch muta into 7 Hatch Crazy Zerg works so well. Basically I've been playing Zerg as Terran was not my main race and I basically harass with +1 Carapace as long as I can, which at D+ level is really easy (unless you versed a hacker,which I did) and you get your third, while building sunkens and then near hive you set up 4 Sunkens get a nydus/ultralisk den and you should've at the same time been upgrading carapace and melee attack and basically I can get about 16-19 ultras that way. It's also a quicker timing than 3 Hatch because your third is established before your mutas come out. Also, there isn't a Build Order for Crazy Zerg so I'm assuming from what I've done is get mutalisks and while making mutalisks get +1 Carapace (personal preference) and get dual carapaces for Carapace upgrade and Melee attack upgrade. All the while you should get a third establish and probably get sunkens at natural and third if he decides to go SK Terran and then preceed to establish a Muta/Ling army while creating more sunkens. Eventually what I like to do is save till 2K-2K then with my 7 Hatcheries I mass ultras till no gas then mass lings and also I get scourge. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
And no, there is an established build order for Crazy Zerg, and I have never heard anyone calling a non-3hatch build Crazy Zerg before. Crazy Zerg has always been 3hatch mutas into ultras since the build came out around the Blue Storm period. 3hatch -> put down evo when starting lair and start carapace while delaying lingspeed -> mutas with more lings than usual -> ultras. Crazy Zerg doesn't work off 2hatch as you have less minerals, less larva, and you don't have the economic backing to get your +1 carapace early. You won't be able to create the ling mass that will allow you to fight head on with your mutas until you get ultras out. You do not get upgrades for your mutas nor do you get more than ~11 mutas as you are conserving all your gas in order to be able to create ultras asap. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17726 Posts
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
On March 30 2010 04:24 koreasilver wrote: Even on specific maps like Match Point where you can quickly double expand off of 2hatch mutas they are unable to skip lurkers. They get their den asap after their fourth hatch and delay hive because they are living on the edge of their mutalisks to hold off the Terran before their economy kicks in. Most of the time they barely get lurkers out in time to fend off the Terran. How are you supposed to skip everything and rush to ultras without getting killed. Maybe I've missed a progame where someone pulls it off but so far to me it just doesn't make any sense. And no, there is an established build order for Crazy Zerg, and I have never heard anyone calling a non-3hatch build Crazy Zerg before. Crazy Zerg has always been 3hatch mutas into ultras since the build came out around the Blue Storm period. 3hatch -> put down evo when starting lair and start carapace while delaying lingspeed -> mutas with more lings than usual -> ultras. Crazy Zerg doesn't work off 2hatch as you have less minerals, less larva, and you don't have the economic backing to get your +1 carapace early. You won't be able to create the ling mass that will allow you to fight head on with your mutas until you get ultras out. You do not get upgrades for your mutas nor do you get more than ~11 mutas as you are conserving all your gas in order to be able to create ultras asap. Pretty sure I stated a specific level at which it works. Anyways the reason why 2 hatchery works is because you can get your third quicker than a 3 hatch build would and the carapace will be later, but with correct mutalisk harass (I like to skip lings) you can do horrendous damage. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
And you're basically hinging everything on muta micro to be able to defend yourself while expanding and teching. The only way you could possibly double expand AND skip lurkers and defilers and go straight into mutas is if your opponent gets his entire base razed by your first 11 mutas which just does not happen anymore as pretty much everyone knows how to play against 2hatch mutas now. And lets just say that your opponent sucks and you are killing him with your mutas. Carapace is late and your ultras are going to suck so there's no point in rushing for ultras anyway. It just doesn't make any good sense. | ||
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
On March 30 2010 10:29 koreasilver wrote: Saying that "it works at D+" is so stupid and pointless. You could probably rush to ultras off of 2base only using zerglings against D- players. Doesn't mean that it's a good build or that it makes any kind of good sense. And you're basically hinging everything on muta micro to be able to defend yourself while expanding and teching. The only way you could possibly double expand AND skip lurkers and defilers and go straight into mutas is if your opponent gets his entire base razed by your first 11 mutas which just does not happen anymore as pretty much everyone knows how to play against 2hatch mutas now. And lets just say that your opponent sucks and you are killing him with your mutas. Carapace is late and your ultras are going to suck so there's no point in rushing for ultras anyway. It just doesn't make any good sense. Not true, they'll have 4 carapace and speed with the help of cracklings, also since I'm on three bases so quickly this will allow me to get gas to 2.5K by the time I pump ultras. And who said I am double-expanding. YOU DID. I feel that on Match Point mutas solely can take on up to 2 Control Groups of marines because the numerous cliffs and ramps. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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