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Hello!
{My background, you can skip if you want}
I'm Theon from Croatia.
My cousin introduced me to Starcraft since it was released.
I used to play singleplayer and some matches with my cousin (but he would steam roll me)
Over a long time I stumbled upon this page which helped me beat my cousin, but that was couple of years ago.
Starcraft 2 is nearing it's release so I've decided to get better at Brood War and instead of lurking this forums as I did before, I come to you posting/asking for help.
{"Problem"}
From the title you see I play Zerg although everyone around me says they are the hardest.
I've played couple of matches with my friend and uploaded the replays so you can analyse my game and help me get better
Replay #1
{My analysis}
- I need to hotkey my Ovies and keep an eye on them
- my Ovie dies, and I continue forcing 3 Hatch Muta which I learned so hard instead of adapting to Terran 2 rax
- bad 3rd hatch positioning (I need some guidelines on how to build Zerg structures)
- I need to survey my choke better to prevent Bunkers like those
- as my nat Hatch dies I change my build order and don't build a Spire after Lair
- my workers idle for quite some time
Replay #2
- I opt for 9 pool, but fail --> I don't a-move Lings thus I don't kill the scout, and I send them to the wrong spawn, then force them into Terran base which is now guarded
- I should have used 9 pool defensively, and build more Lings after my initial failed attack
- I don't use drones for defense at all, or try to run with them
Replay #3
- I win this one, but the game lasts longer so you might evaluate my terrible terrible dama... game
- open with imperfect 9 pool to prevent cheese
- build an Extractor and than don't harvest for some time, horrible
- sent a drone to 11 o'clock to build expansion but I forget about it
- overall I need better macro
I hope I don't bother you too much asking for help.
You can (if you want to) analyse my friend's game, so I'll pass him the advice
Just FYI, my and my friend use voice chat, so no "gg" etc. ingame
Should I try the iCCup or stick playing with my friend?
Maybe someone wants to spar with me, and teach me the game?
P.S. Sorry for long post (and I hope I didn't break any rules)! You can delete my other post (which I posted because I couldn't open new topics): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=115257¤tpage=6
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First of all, I am not a very good player myself (Iccup D+/C-)so I may be wrong as well. And I don't play z or t.
Watched the first game..
You should have sent your first overlord to 2 o clock. (minor problem i know) Then pull it back immediately you have seen the build of terran.
Lost temple is quite an old map, meaning that the modern strategies may not apply too well in that map. You are unlucky to be in the 12 o clock position, because on other positions you can use the 2nd hatchery to build sunken colonies to defend early marine/medic aggression.
It is one of the reason why the 2 barracks build is so rare now.
Also you have sacrificed a lot of zerglings/drones to try to kill that bunker. Damaging the bunker is no use, because the terran can just repair it, so make sure you can kill the bunker before you attack or don't attack to save your units. I think you need like 12 lings to break a bunker but I'm not exactly sure.
The game could have been over very early if the terran chose to attack you have you sacrificed the lings 2 times.
Basically after you have lost your natural there is very little way to come back.
2nd game...
You sunken up too late.
I think you should learn more about the basics of the game first before you go onto iccup. A good way is to try to force yourself to spam more. Try to use more hotkeys, select different units keep tracking of your base etc... When your apm reaches 100 then maybe you can try to go on iccup.
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Thanks for the advice (to you and everyone else who will post)
About maps, well so far we will probably play only default maps that are already in StarCraft.
I guess I should learn 'older' build orders and strategies...
I uses hotkeys 1-4 units and 5-0 hatches
But, I need to learn to rehotkey every couple of seconds and use F keys a lot more
Well, that all counts towards being faster which I hope is only matter of experience
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+1 for reviewing your own replays! This'll help you improve a LOT.
In response to your own comments:
Find places to position your ovies safely. this would be cliffs around the map where he can peek over but the terran can't see him early on. As you play more games you'll have a better feel about how to adjust builds when you get put in a tight situation.
9pool is meant to be aggressive. You can keep those lings outside his choke to deny scouting and detect when he moves out, allowing you to respond and build sunkens while dancing your lings to delay his push.
Being aware of the game and it's progress is pretty important to your build. A good thing to do earlier on is to hotkey a building or unit you need to pay attention to on one of your lesser used keys. I use 4 and 0 to check up on buildings that are really key to my build order or game rhythm. This means my extractor as it builds, spire, defiler mound, spawning pool, any building I need to keep track of I key up. Biggest help comes with evo chambers when I need to keep up with upgrades).
The builds I suggest the most to learn for a beginning player:
Overpool (This gives you a good chance against a cheesey player & later on helps to stop those pesky scouts from bothering your expo hatch placement)
3 hatch muta Standard, then work on transitioning to lategame.
Most "standard" maps these days are pretty balanced and may defuse some of the weirder things older maps might have (ie: spawn at 12 o'clock on Lost Temple is awkward to expo at). Once you learn those two build orders, work on the lurker variation, then 2hatch style. These 5 builds are the building blocks you should work on before tweaking them.
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Overpool --> gonna learn it right now (I think it's not that much different from 9 pool in terms of difficult performing)
3 Hatch Muta --> I learnt this one on liqupedia. It took me a long time, but I can easily perform it against AI and I usually transition to Lurker/Ling then Defiler/Ultras, but I was thinking I might experiment by using Queens to snipe Tanks with broodling
What (default) maps do you recommend? Or is it imperative that me and my friend download that iCCup map pack?
P.S. I've played 3 more games with my friend (Hari), two ZvZ (won and lost), and ZvP (I won that one, but went with cheese 4 pool and hurt his economy really badly, but game still lasted 40mins)
If you want I could upload them at RepDepot and do another self analysis
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Python is played a lot. It leans towards the Terrans, but not so much as Lost Temple (It's a more balanced Lost Temple in a lot of ways).
I recommend playing Luna, Python, Fighting Spirit. Luna and Python are older, but more basic. Fighting Spirit can show you the ways you can secure and abuse an easier third gas.
Destination and New Heartbreak Ridge are also fun maps to play. They're 2 player maps, so you know exactly where the other person spawns, vs. the other 3 mentioned above.
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Here is another compilation of 3 replays.
I hope I don't bother you too much, but it's also easier for me to self analyse while typing it out here on the forums.
Replay #4
- victory for me in this ZvZ
- I think I waited far too long to build an Extractor
- got population locked :S
- I forgot to save larvae for Mutas
- should have made another expansion after the initial Muta harass which locked his pop
- after he lost his army I should have moved in and take him out
- I need better game sanse; when I get his army I should counter
- Evolution Chamber was totally unused when it could have been used
Replay #5
- idle workers
- I should have countered when I destroyed his Lurkers because I had a much larger army with Lings and Mutas ---> again, I need better game sanse (and scouting = could destroy his expansion)
- went too much defensive after I got scared by his initial attacks with Lurkers, need to keep cool (I could win)
- pop locked again :S
- If I had sent Lings and Mutas faster to my main I wouldn't have lost Lair, and probably wipe out his army and could proceed to win the game
- forgot about upgrades
Replay #6
- I win this one
- this time, I went with 4 pool cheese build which managed to hurt his economy and scare him so he proceeds to build tons of Photons (my response were Guardians)
- I should have built an expansion instead of another Hatch at my main
- population locked, again (I really need to work on my macro and watching the population)
- idle workes, and idle production
- I should have sent out my overlords to detect those Observers instead of keeping them too safe at my base
- definitely I need to scout a lot more with couple of Lings so I can deny him the exp.
- if I had protected Guardians with Scourge I would have won the game by 30min mark
- and I should have pressed on the attack with Guardians after the initial owning with them thus not giving him time to build Scouts
- I mustn't limit myself to only 3 bases when I can have more
So far, me 3 : 3 Hari
I still need to beat his Terran
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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we know you like your lessons but plugging someone elses thread with this is kinda.. 
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I used to have a lot of respect for you. Lately I have been losing it, and now, well, this is just terrible. You could at least offer him advice and then say "If you want more detailed information/to go over this, please see...". Instead, you are basically saying "The only way you get good is by paying me money".
Shameful self-plug. I really hope not many people use your service.
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Calgary26003 Posts
Yea come on, don't do this please.
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It's really nice of you that you noticed my thread, but ...
Even if I had money, I strongly doubt I would use it to 'invest' into something that would not return me the profit.
Sorry if it sounded too harsh.
@ Chill: Your FPVODs are really helpful!
Back to topic:
I've been practicing Overpool.
What version should I use considering the fact I currently play only Blizzard maps, and how should I transition?
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Try to smooth out your early game, learn the transitions of each build (atleast the main builds for start). Try to pay more attention to everywhere, don't leave anything idle because you forgot about it ;].
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EPT
