EPT[G] Easy ways to get your PvZ past D+ - Page 2
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
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MiniRoman
Canada3953 Posts
If Zerg sim cities and you cant attack then save your guys, expand and start working on a good army composition, get your robo up for shuttle harass + obs. Once you have goons/storm/archons to compliment your beefy zealots Z should still be on lair units and this is when you have the biggest advantage. At this point your army should be pretty untouchable. Expand more and just keep checks on all the expos, If you kept zerg on 3 bases then you should have a big lead when he gets hive up, just cover your ass vs drops / Z nexus hunting and macro ftw. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
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Waffles
Romania605 Posts
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On November 18 2009 15:28 MiniRoman wrote: Should really focus on securing a 3rd while you zeal blitzkreg. When Z goes muta make sure you have enough cannons and keep making sairs. You can run your speedzeals around to buy time if you are being pressured by the mutas directly as they expand at this time. Once you get 5-6 sair zerg air is just completly worthless and as long as you get cannons up at your 3rd your army should be able to easily protect your expansion. Always go for templar tech vs Z. It's affordable and if you just mass zeal without it its basically all in for no reason. If Zerg sim cities and you cant attack then save your guys, expand and start working on a good army composition, get your robo up for shuttle harass + obs. Once you have goons/storm/archons to compliment your beefy zealots Z should still be on lair units and this is when you have the biggest advantage. At this point your army should be pretty untouchable. Expand more and just keep checks on all the expos, If you kept zerg on 3 bases then you should have a big lead when he gets hive up, just cover your ass vs drops / Z nexus hunting and macro ftw. The only problem with the way that this guy is proposing the +1 Speedlot attack is that he wants 6 freaking Gates pumping out Zealots nonstop and rolling over the guy in the midgame. A normal +1 Speedlot goes off of 4 Gates max (including the one at the natural) and saves up that money for a faster expansion. The Zealots in that case are not meant to be game ending, but rather as a stall for you to get a 3rd expansion up since your Zealots are basically taking map control for you. The third is going to be extremely delayed in this case because you're going Zealots + Mass sairs. If you're getting mass corsairs in addition to the 6 gate Zealots, it's pretty much all in. I would refer you to a lot of JangBi's PvZs where he went for exactly this kind of strategy, except he did a +1 Speedlot rush followed by 2 Stargate Sair/DT. Example game that never got the 2 Stargate Sair/DT part, but you could tell he was going for it because of the 2 Stargates and lack of a third expo. Sorry for not finding a better example, but this game was still fresh in my mind due to epic fail from a certain player. | ||
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stack
Canada348 Posts
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Papvin
Denmark612 Posts
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monkxly
Canada241 Posts
3 hatch spire 5 hatch hydra with 2 sunkens (standard build for most z's) Hydra production at 42 supply 3 hatch spire 5 hatch muta 3 hatch muta 3 hatch spire 5 hatch lurker 3 hatch lurker O.o | ||
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Misder
United States1557 Posts
this seems more of a rush/all in build because of the really late 3rd expansion and counters. once they set up a contain with lurkers or map control with muta, its going to be impossible to expand/win. | ||
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Adeny
Norway1233 Posts
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On November 18 2009 23:24 monkxly wrote: Hmm well speaking from z's point of view, here are a list of counters for it 3 hatch spire 5 hatch hydra with 2 sunkens (standard build for most z's) Hydra production at 42 supply 3 hatch spire 5 hatch muta 3 hatch muta 3 hatch spire 5 hatch lurker 3 hatch lurker O.o First of all, for the D->C- level mechanics, assuming both that you opponent and you have approximately equivalent grasps of your build, 1) 3hatch spire -> 5hatch hydra with 2 sunkens will not counter this. There is a timing where you can break his 3rd. 2) 3 hatch spire 5 hatch muta you will see coming and you can change build 3) 3 hatch muta you will also see and can change build like above, as your build will not have deviated much from the normal FE yet. 4) 3 hatch spire -> 5 hatch lurker will not counter this build at D+->C- level. You can run circles around the lurker and go wherever they are not. 5) 3 hatch lurker is more annoying, especially if they set up a contain with ling support, and you forget to get obs the moment you see lurkers morphing. However, with this build you will have excessive gas, so use it to get archons, and at D+->C- level you will be able to roll his contain the moment obs+archon pops out. On November 19 2009 00:32 Adeny wrote: Not that I don't appreciate the effort, but how is this any different from the build NonY laddered with on bluestorm in the previous TSL? Because I guess most have seen those already. I haven't seen this reps actually or heard of the build he used, but I'll go check that out. On November 18 2009 23:44 Misder wrote: this build seemed good at the very beginning, and i might be able to pull this build off once or twice, but it seems very suseptible to many builds ie. anything with mass mutas or mass lurkers with support... especially with the late templar archives this seems more of a rush/all in build because of the really late 3rd expansion and counters. once they set up a contain with lurkers or map control with muta, its going to be impossible to expand/win. You can time the templar archives for whenever you want. If he goes pure hydra, don't bother getting it earlier. If he goes lurker ling contain, get it a bit earlier and bust it fast with zeal archon. It's also not all-in, because your economy is not screwed, and even if you find that his base is well defended and impenetrable (pretty much doesn't happen at D->C-) then you can immediately expand because you have a HUGE army, which will be able to prevent any further expansions if you scout for them. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On November 18 2009 15:48 Waffles wrote: this is the build to get started with but from my experience, ive had more people do 2 hatch lurk contain into some variation of the 5 hatch hydra than reg 3 spire into 5 den. i play at D/D+ level. I feel that D/D+ players notice DTs less as they have less multi task. if i just slip in to the base(no sunken/overlord or other units just bllocking the choke) then i get at least 5 drone kills.Id say this is more to get from D- to D 2 hatch lurk is no problem. DTs are useful, yes, but most of the time I see people go for DT harass, they overemphasize watching the DT, and therefore their available multitask for elsewhere drops, and their macro slips. More often than not I have to be harassing with my army while DT dropping / run into expansions without spores that my corsairs just cleared in order for the DT harass to succeed, as otherwise their bases are usually guarded. I'd suspect that doing this would hurt D+ macro more than the build I mentioned, but by all means use DTs when appropriate. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12816 Posts
I do believe mass muta/scourge is the correct counter as it offers the mobility to deal with your zealots. Some good sunk/simCity is also good option there was a recent savior game where he does the most beautiful sim city ever... I'll see if I can find it | ||
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aG.Admirai
Canada55 Posts
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On November 20 2009 11:46 evanthebouncy! wrote: haha yeah the part where you mention that multitask for zerg is way harder for protoss is true. All protoss need is 1a2a3a into different bases and zerg has to burrow lurkers make sunkens and flank with lings xD I do believe mass muta/scourge is the correct counter as it offers the mobility to deal with your zealots. Some good sunk/simCity is also good option there was a recent savior game where he does the most beautiful sim city ever... I'll see if I can find it I think you're referring to Savior vs Pusan + Show Spoiler + But generally when you attack first, either his natural or 3rd has only one sunken, and you go to that base. It's pretty amazing how little micro +1 zealots take against unupgraded zerg units, even lurkers. It's also good that if the zerg goes mass muta/scourge to counter you, first low level zergs have bad micro. All you have to do is get corsairs and templars and 1a2a3a after you get enough units. There's just so many ways to make the zerg's job harder than your job, and it makes for easy wins at low level. | ||
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