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Mod Edit:
False alarm, IdrA hosted the game on a random map from his download folder:
- FrozenArbiter
On July 29 2009 09:27 IdrA wrote:
uuuh i dont have time to read the whole thread right now but i hosted that game
i must have just dled a rigged map while playing on iccup, can someone tell me the file name so i can delete it?
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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that is definitely something
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United States4991 Posts
Oh snap, cheating with stacked minerals lol
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8748 Posts
DRAMAAAAAAAAAAA
AMERICAAAAAAAAAAA
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i dont get it, nice 1st post anyways
providing replay of idra and everything
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
holy fuck stacked minerals
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
LMfao uh ooohhhh.....
Edit: LOL, nice edit on the title.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On July 29 2009 06:48 OmgIRok wrote:
i dont get it, nice 1st post anyways
providing replay of idra and everything
The minerals are stacked...like a money map...like an edited ums map....DING DONG DING!
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dimaga is a cheater ? O__O!
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Props to the guy at gg.net who found noticed this. Most of us would not have seen this.
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O_O It took me a second to figure it out...
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damn...
who won the game btw?
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yeah you can see two drones mining from the same patch at times. also the top two mineral patches have shadows like black holes
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It could just be a bad version of a map. Did he even host the game? Sometimes that stuff just happens due to lame maps being around.
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The map might've been dl'd from someone who made it. It doesn't look like he was able to exploit it a lot either (not much drone saturation). But yea, DRAMA.
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What about IdrA's base? Did it have stacked minerals as well? If so, this would favor the Terran more than the Zerg due to the worker saturation...
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
lol how ca you do this??
they were playing UMS obs map?
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On July 29 2009 06:53 MYM.Testie wrote:
It could just be a bad version of a map. Did he even host the game? Sometimes that stuff just happens due to lame maps being around.
On July 29 2009 06:37 arb wrote:
EDIT : Oh wow, he was actually moving the double mining drones away when idras scv would come..
quoted from the Highlander results and reps news.
and selboN, no, idra didn't have stacked minerals.
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On July 29 2009 06:53 MYM.Testie wrote:
It could just be a bad version of a map. Did he even host the game? Sometimes that stuff just happens due to lame maps being around.
This is true, I once played in a tournament and the there was no option to upgrade lurkers LOL
I seriously doubt DIMAGA would do such a thing on such a tournament, why wouldnt they host the iCCup map? and even if DIMAGA did do this there was no gurantee that he would've spawned at the top and not bottom, but w/e
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This will need some looking into..
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On July 29 2009 06:58 lokiM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 06:53 MYM.Testie wrote:
It could just be a bad version of a map. Did he even host the game? Sometimes that stuff just happens due to lame maps being around. This is true, I once played in a tournament and the there was no option to upgrade lurkers LOL
iccup official mappack, it's.... gaia obs I belive
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On July 29 2009 06:58 lokiM wrote: even if DIMAGA did do this there was no gurantee that he would've spawned at the top and not bottom, but w/e
You can easily make sure you spawn at the top by turning random start location off in ums.
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On July 29 2009 06:58 lokiM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 06:53 MYM.Testie wrote:
It could just be a bad version of a map. Did he even host the game? Sometimes that stuff just happens due to lame maps being around. This is true, I once played in a tournament and the there was no option to upgrade lurkers LOL I seriously doubt DIMAGA would do such a thing on such a tournament, why wouldnt they host the iCCup map? and even if DIMAGA did do this there was no gurantee that he would've spawned at the top and not bottom, but w/e
It's one thing with a bugged ums map (I believe you're talking about Gaia or something), rigging maps to get stacked minerals is something completely different...
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United States4991 Posts
Game name was idra
I don't know if Dimaga is someone who hosts the game with opponent's name or if that means Idra hosted it.
This was played on melee btw, not UMS.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On July 29 2009 06:58 lokiM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 06:53 MYM.Testie wrote:
It could just be a bad version of a map. Did he even host the game? Sometimes that stuff just happens due to lame maps being around. This is true, I once played in a tournament and the there was no option to upgrade lurkers LOL I seriously doubt DIMAGA would do such a thing on such a tournament, why wouldnt they host the iCCup map? and even if DIMAGA did do this there was no gurantee that he would've spawned at the top and not bottom, but w/e
It is true that it's a big gamble, HOWEVER, someone willing to cheat and also capable of swallowing their ego, would realize that they have waaaaaaay worse than a 50/50 shot at beating IdrA under normal conditions making a gamble like this well worth it ;o
So if it was an intentional map rig (as opposed to using a map from your download folder that you didn't know was tainted), it's still possible.
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On July 29 2009 07:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 06:58 lokiM wrote: even if DIMAGA did do this there was no gurantee that he would've spawned at the top and not bottom, but w/e You can easily make sure you spawn at the top by turning random start location off in ums.
Oh shit really? o_o never knew that
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wow this is terribly lame. Counted at least 6 stacked minerals used in the main and nat. There are stacked minerals at the 3rd base as well
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On July 29 2009 07:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 06:58 lokiM wrote: even if DIMAGA did do this there was no gurantee that he would've spawned at the top and not bottom, but w/e You can easily make sure you spawn at the top by turning random start location off in ums.
Would have been great if it wasn't turned off and Idra spawned at the top....actually if dimaga did do it intentionally he should have made it so idra spawned and cheated hahaha that would have been dramalicious!!!
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On July 29 2009 07:01 Shauni wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 06:58 lokiM wrote:On July 29 2009 06:53 MYM.Testie wrote:
It could just be a bad version of a map. Did he even host the game? Sometimes that stuff just happens due to lame maps being around. This is true, I once played in a tournament and the there was no option to upgrade lurkers LOL I seriously doubt DIMAGA would do such a thing on such a tournament, why wouldnt they host the iCCup map? and even if DIMAGA did do this there was no gurantee that he would've spawned at the top and not bottom, but w/e It's one thing with a bugged ums map (I believe you're talking about Gaia or something), rigging maps to get stacked minerals is something completely different...
for rela
i was just adding an example to Testie's statement
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Well we know that Idra doesn't need to cheat to win, and I'm sure the CJ house doesn't keep rigged maps on their machines, so there's no way this is Idra's fault. Who was the host?
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I guess this is why Idra lost the first game lol
From gosugamers.net:
#17 if you watch it again carefully, you can see DIMAGA moves away the drones that would be stacked as idra's scv comes close, so idra, and everyone else wouldn't notice. But someone did notice, and DIMAGA should be banned from all leagues now.
Fail 
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United States33389 Posts
On July 29 2009 06:53 MYM.Testie wrote:
It could just be a bad version of a map. Did he even host the game? Sometimes that stuff just happens due to lame maps being around.
must... resist...
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This is why replays are so important. Gotta have some way to sniff out the dirty cheaters.
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well thats a goddamn tragedy
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On July 29 2009 07:06 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 06:53 MYM.Testie wrote:
It could just be a bad version of a map. Did he even host the game? Sometimes that stuff just happens due to lame maps being around. must... resist...
Listen testie played on a lot of bogus maps where the fog of war was mysteriously gone he knows about this sort of thing
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We need a statement from idra(who visits) to tell us who hosted the map
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On July 29 2009 06:53 MYM.Testie wrote:
It could just be a bad version of a map. Did he even host the game? Sometimes that stuff just happens due to lame maps being around.
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On July 29 2009 07:02 HnR)Insane wrote:
Game name was idra
I don't know if Dimaga is someone who hosts the game with opponent's name or if that means Idra hosted it.
This was played on melee btw, not UMS.
I have met quite a few people who host games with their opponent's nickname, and iirc they tend to be russian. So I guess dimaga isn't far off in that department.
As for the melee thing it's been circulating around for a while that there's a new type of hack which can alter maps - in melee / one vs one settings even - this way, with stacked minerals and fixed start locations.
It's a goddamn shame that someone who won a legit trip (!) to a WCG already would resort to this. Even with all that money on the line...
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On July 29 2009 07:06 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 06:53 MYM.Testie wrote:
It could just be a bad version of a map. Did he even host the game? Sometimes that stuff just happens due to lame maps being around. must... resist...
Everyone should be using the latest iccup map pack instead of their generic download folder.
I have separate folders for each iccup season map pack, in case I want to play an older version, and I'm a D noob that hardly plays.
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oh god I love SC drama.
I can't wait to see how this one plays out.
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I'm sure we'll find out what really happened soon enough, the host of the game will need to answer some questions.
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On July 29 2009 07:06 Yaqoob wrote:I guess this is why Idra lost the first game lol From gosugamers.net: Show nested quote +#17 if you watch it again carefully, you can see DIMAGA moves away the drones that would be stacked as idra's scv comes close, so idra, and everyone else wouldn't notice. But someone did notice, and DIMAGA should be banned from all leagues now. Fail
Oh shit! Now it's on.
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Can't wait to see how this plays out lol
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bwrepinfo says creator was idra.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On July 29 2009 07:08 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 06:53 MYM.Testie wrote:
It could just be a bad version of a map. Did he even host the game? Sometimes that stuff just happens due to lame maps being around.
LOLOLOLOL!
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On July 29 2009 07:09 Naib wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:02 HnR)Insane wrote:
Game name was idra
I don't know if Dimaga is someone who hosts the game with opponent's name or if that means Idra hosted it.
This was played on melee btw, not UMS. I have met quite a few people who host games with their opponent's nickname, and iirc they tend to be russian. So I guess dimaga isn't far off in that department. As for the melee thing it's been circulating around for a while that there's a new type of hack which can alter maps - in melee / one vs one settings even - this way, with stacked minerals and fixed start locations.It's a goddamn shame that someone who won a legit trip (!) to a WCG already would resort to this. Even with all that money on the line...
On July 29 2009 07:09 Glider wrote:
I'm sure we'll find out what really happened soon enough, the host of the game will need to answer some questions.
It would appear not. It's a new hack, and DIMAGA was spotted removing drones when Idra scouted to hide his cheating.
All recent foreign tournaments should examine their replays for evidence of mineral stack hacking.
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Sooo... Idra created a game using a hacked map, and Dimaga used it to his advantage while idra didnt?
Didn't idra have the same advantage as Dimaga? If so, he's def the one to blame since he actually made the game 
:O
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On July 29 2009 07:14 (paladin)roMAD wrote:
edit: beaten
edit: nvm >_>
idra created map D:!?!?
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On July 29 2009 07:08 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 06:53 MYM.Testie wrote:
It could just be a bad version of a map. Did he even host the game? Sometimes that stuff just happens due to lame maps being around.
Oh the irony! LOL! HAHA!
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
Oh shit, drama incoming !
selboN get Your ass at iccup sometimes !
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On July 29 2009 07:11 kNyTTyM wrote:
bwrepinfo says creator was idra.
UH OH! LETS JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS GUYS!
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On July 29 2009 07:09 Naib wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:02 HnR)Insane wrote:
Game name was idra
I don't know if Dimaga is someone who hosts the game with opponent's name or if that means Idra hosted it.
This was played on melee btw, not UMS. I have met quite a few people who host games with their opponent's nickname, and iirc they tend to be russian. So I guess dimaga isn't far off in that department. As for the melee thing it's been circulating around for a while that there's a new type of hack which can alter maps - in melee / one vs one settings even - this way, with stacked minerals and fixed start locations. It's a goddamn shame that someone who won a legit trip (!) to a WCG already would resort to this. Even with all that money on the line...
So there is a hack that allows to put stacked minerals on normal maps whether on ICCup or East?
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CA10828 Posts
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On July 29 2009 07:17 Kennigit wrote:UH OH! LETS JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS GUYS!
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On July 29 2009 07:08 arb wrote:
We need a statement from idra(who visits) to tell us who hosted the map
Idra's going to be pissed when he sees this, and rightfully so.
it's pretty revolting to see this, one thing is combat ex cheating to get B- on iccup which is in it's self disgusting, but this... this is a pro euro player in a tournament with a prize pool, run by the community and against other professionals.
appalling to say the least, and congrats to dimaga he just lost any respect he had in the community and probably his spot on anymore community run tournaments.
I would also like a rep pack of all previous dimaga tournament wins made available to check if this is the first time, or if this has been done often.
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8748 Posts
On July 29 2009 07:14 Senx wrote:Sooo... Idra created a game using a hacked map, and Dimaga used it to his advantage while idra didnt? Didn't idra have the same advantage as Dimaga? If so, he's def the one to blame since he actually made the game :O
the map file wasnt hacked. dimaga allegedly loaded a hack, similar to how one would load a map hack. this hack modifies the playing field so that the hacker's position has stacked mineral patches.
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On July 29 2009 07:17 crucifix wrote:
Oh shit, drama incoming !
selboN get Your ass at iccup sometimes !
I'm not current with TL IDs, who are you? D: <3 anyways
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On July 29 2009 07:17 Kennigit wrote:UH OH! LETS JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS GUYS!
ESPORTS!
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On July 29 2009 07:17 Kennigit wrote:UH OH! LETS JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS GUYS!
Too late. About 10 people already did.
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We need Idra in here ASAP!
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On July 29 2009 07:19 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:14 Senx wrote:Sooo... Idra created a game using a hacked map, and Dimaga used it to his advantage while idra didnt? Didn't idra have the same advantage as Dimaga? If so, he's def the one to blame since he actually made the game :O the map file wasnt hacked. dimaga allegedly loaded a hack, similar to how one would load a map hack. this hack modifies the playing field so that the hacker's position has stacked mineral patches.
Oh wow Dimaga is boned
BONED
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On July 29 2009 07:20 deathgod6 wrote:
We need Idra in here ASAP!
sleeping in the koreas
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I think idra rigged the map so he could have some competition
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On July 29 2009 07:21 StorrZerg wrote:
I think idra rigged the map so he could have some competition
+1 haha
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United States12607 Posts
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On July 29 2009 07:19 Etherone wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:08 arb wrote:
We need a statement from idra(who visits) to tell us who hosted the map Idra's going to be pissed when he sees this, and rightfully so. it's pretty revolting to see this, one thing is combat ex cheating to get B- on iccup which is in it's self disgusting, but this... this is a pro euro player in a tournament with a prize pool, run by the community and against other professionals. appalling to say the least, and congrats to dimaga he just lost any respect he had in the community and probably his spot on anymore community run tournaments. I would also like a rep pack of all previous dimaga tournament wins made available to check if this is the first time, or if this has been done often.
Wow, you're already comfortable with saying all of this? And if you're wrong? Are you going to give him a public apology? Let it play out. See what the players have to say. Sheesh.
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United States4991 Posts
On July 29 2009 07:19 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:14 Senx wrote:Sooo... Idra created a game using a hacked map, and Dimaga used it to his advantage while idra didnt? Didn't idra have the same advantage as Dimaga? If so, he's def the one to blame since he actually made the game :O the map file wasnt hacked. dimaga allegedly loaded a hack, similar to how one would load a map hack. this hack modifies the playing field so that the hacker's position has stacked mineral patches.
Wow really? I thought the hack was just a hack to let him choose which start position he is (so like, he always gets top position). That's super crazy if it's a hack which actually adds mineral fields to the map --a
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rofl dimaga soooooo dirty!
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Even if it was a simple mistake (I.E Idra accidentally having dl'd a rigged map from an ICCUP user and hosting it)... the fact that DIMAGA clearly KNEW the map was rigged in his favo (stacked minerals), and continued to play out the game, pretending like nothing was wrong is cause for concern.
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On July 29 2009 07:19 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:14 Senx wrote:Sooo... Idra created a game using a hacked map, and Dimaga used it to his advantage while idra didnt? Didn't idra have the same advantage as Dimaga? If so, he's def the one to blame since he actually made the game :O the map file wasnt hacked. dimaga allegedly loaded a hack, similar to how one would load a map hack. this hack modifies the playing field so that the hacker's position has stacked mineral patches.
So is there an easy way to spot this hack in game? or with a replay analyzer?
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On July 29 2009 07:11 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:09 Naib wrote:On July 29 2009 07:02 HnR)Insane wrote:
Game name was idra
I don't know if Dimaga is someone who hosts the game with opponent's name or if that means Idra hosted it.
This was played on melee btw, not UMS. I have met quite a few people who host games with their opponent's nickname, and iirc they tend to be russian. So I guess dimaga isn't far off in that department. As for the melee thing it's been circulating around for a while that there's a new type of hack which can alter maps - in melee / one vs one settings even - this way, with stacked minerals and fixed start locations.It's a goddamn shame that someone who won a legit trip (!) to a WCG already would resort to this. Even with all that money on the line... Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:09 Glider wrote:
I'm sure we'll find out what really happened soon enough, the host of the game will need to answer some questions. It would appear not. It's a new hack, and DIMAGA was spotted removing drones when Idra scouted to hide his cheating. All recent foreign tournaments should examine their replays for evidence of mineral stack hacking.
Wait.. there is a new hack that allows a player to join a legit map in 1v1/melee mode and change its mineral content???!! Jeez we need a fix for this ASAP if that's the case.
I just think we should really make sure what happened before crucifying anyone. Moving the drones from crystals doesn't seem to be 100% incriminating. sometimes I move my workers around early game to optimize eco since they tend to stuck when empty crystal is available. Of course I didn't see the rep, the drones could already be well saturated and moving them when scv is around in this case is extremely suspicious.
ps. From the shadow of the minerals, it seems quite a few crystals are stacked (shadow much darker)
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It's an old enough game i'd think it's possible, but somebody doing that on purpose is disgusting. Still, let's not jump to conclusions other than that we should be inconclusive.
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On July 29 2009 07:23 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 29 2009 07:19 Etherone wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:08 arb wrote:
We need a statement from idra(who visits) to tell us who hosted the map Idra's going to be pissed when he sees this, and rightfully so. it's pretty revolting to see this, one thing is combat ex cheating to get B- on iccup which is in it's self disgusting, but this... this is a pro euro player in a tournament with a prize pool, run by the community and against other professionals. appalling to say the least, and congrats to dimaga he just lost any respect he had in the community and probably his spot on anymore community run tournaments. I would also like a rep pack of all previous dimaga tournament wins made available to check if this is the first time, or if this has been done often. Wow, you're already comfortable with saying all of this? And if you're wrong? Are you going to give him a public apology? Let it play out. See what the players have to say. Sheesh.
absolutely, and that is why i requested a reppack of all his tournament wins, although maybe his tournament losses should be included as well considering the outcome of the set.
nothing pisses me off more than cheating, especially on pro levels and within the foreign sc community no less.
since he moved his stacked drones when idra was scouting, i could hardly see how this is anything but cheating, although on the off chance this is just a coincidence I would gladly apologize to dimaga.
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That's too bad. I was really impressed with how well Dimaga did and only lost 1-2 with the 3rd game being to a *gasp* one base quick rush from IdrA.
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On July 29 2009 07:23 HnR)Insane wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:19 Liquid`NonY wrote:On July 29 2009 07:14 Senx wrote:Sooo... Idra created a game using a hacked map, and Dimaga used it to his advantage while idra didnt? Didn't idra have the same advantage as Dimaga? If so, he's def the one to blame since he actually made the game :O the map file wasnt hacked. dimaga allegedly loaded a hack, similar to how one would load a map hack. this hack modifies the playing field so that the hacker's position has stacked mineral patches. Wow really? I thought the hack was just a hack to let him choose which start position he is (so like, he always gets top position). That's super crazy if it's a hack which actually adds mineral fields to the map --a
i wish there was Jaedong hack
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
aren't there programs to extract the map?
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Fuckin slippery cossack sluts!
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On July 29 2009 07:30 Kentor wrote:
aren't there programs to extract the map?
I think the map is extracted automatically when the replay is played... could be wrong.
EDIT: lol wtf is wrong with you louder
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was the same hack used in the other games by dimaga? Has anyone checked? Why would he hack only 1/3 games...? :\.
As others have said, im pretty sure more evidence, and idra, who hosted the map, needs to post the version he used to check if it is in fact rigged or not, before we all jump down dimaga's throat as a cheater without hearing the full story.
Havent watched the rep, but the whole 'moving drones' thing does sound sus as fuck.
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Germany2896 Posts
On July 29 2009 07:30 Kentor wrote:
aren't there programs to extract the map?
rexplorer
On July 29 2009 07:19 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:14 Senx wrote:Sooo... Idra created a game using a hacked map, and Dimaga used it to his advantage while idra didnt? Didn't idra have the same advantage as Dimaga? If so, he's def the one to blame since he actually made the game :O the map file wasnt hacked. dimaga allegedly loaded a hack, similar to how one would load a map hack. this hack modifies the playing field so that the hacker's position has stacked mineral patches.
I doubt that. While I believe that it could be possible to write a hack which allows you to choose the starting position(at least if you are host) I doubt it is possible to create minerals on the fly.
There also were hacks to make other players load your map even if you are not host, but it is not too likely that you can make the host himself download&use your version.
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wow, this is sad  I NEED THAT REPLAY ASAPILY!
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On July 29 2009 07:30 Kentor wrote:
aren't there programs to extract the map?
This one?
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LoL
You would think that people would... stop... cheating... Then again, I guess not. Hopefully this turns out to be some sort of weird coincidence, but so far most of the evidence seems to contradict that.
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can you make any specific conclusions here?
they played melee with a rigged map that idra hosted and dimaga abused that?
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Or, you can just upload to repdepot and DL it off of there.
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On July 29 2009 07:35 s.a.y wrote:
can you make any specific conclusions here?
they played melee with a rigged map that idra hosted and dimaga abused that?
If you feel compelled to post in a topic please read it.
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It's already up and I think it's the second-most downloaded rep lol iirc
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On July 29 2009 07:36 selboN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:35 s.a.y wrote:
can you make any specific conclusions here?
they played melee with a rigged map that idra hosted and dimaga abused that? If you feel compelled to post in a topic please read it.
i did, multiple times, thanks for asking.
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I just checked the replay really quick, and yeah... If you repeatedly alternate clicks a couple mineral patches, it'll eventually select you onto the stacked patch, which of course has a different number of minerals on it. The AI too was a bit strange, haha. Drones skipping patches that were open, and moving onto stacked patches with another drone.
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On July 29 2009 07:37 s.a.y wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:36 selboN wrote:On July 29 2009 07:35 s.a.y wrote:
can you make any specific conclusions here?
they played melee with a rigged map that idra hosted and dimaga abused that? If you feel compelled to post in a topic please read it. i did, multiple times, thanks for asking.
At the moment it is in question if there is a hack to stack minerals. Not that IdrA made a bugged map and Dimaga abused it.
Edit: rep -> map
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I was really hoping this was idra's doing. And he did it just to show how much better he is than everyone. T.T
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DIMAGA didn't cheat
download the map Here and host it on melee, the top bases are definately stacked
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why isn't dimaga defending himself?
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I've never heard of a hack that could spawn extra minerals, that doesn't even sound possible technically.
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drama 
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United States20661 Posts
Sick. Respect for Idra, winning on a broken map.
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On July 29 2009 07:41 Last Romantic wrote:
Sick. Respect for Idra, winning on a broken map.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Alright, drama to fill the days up till the PL semi's. ^^
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On July 29 2009 07:39 YPang wrote:
why isn't dimaga defending himself?
he probably isn't here, it's 00:42 in his timezone
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
i'm gonna compare the md5 of the map from the rep to the one from the iccup mappack, one sec...
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On July 29 2009 07:39 YPang wrote:
why isn't dimaga defending himself?
Because the world doesn't revolve around TL? Maybe that's why.
Who here can say they would notice something like this, in-game? I personally have never observed workers mining while playing. The only thing I look at in the mineral line is searching for idle workers.
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
On July 29 2009 07:39 YPang wrote:
why isn't dimaga defending himself?
The thread is like an hour old...
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Why does this continue to happend...I still remember all the "top foreigner" players that have been caught hacking/abusing/bm'ing etc over the years...it's sad that people resort to this stuff and even sadder everyone who takes great delight in bashing the fuck out of them.
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Noone has said it yet (it might be obvious dunno) but as Idras minerals bugged/hacked in a similar way? Or was everyone too busy watching the north base to investigate the holy foreign nerd?
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United States20661 Posts
Oh whoops. Despite.
Hm... put up a good fight though :o
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On July 29 2009 07:44 Carnac wrote:The thread is like an hour old...
and worth gold, thats for sure!
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On July 29 2009 07:39 lokiM wrote:DIMAGA didn't cheat download the map Here and host it on melee, the top bases are definately stacked
What? no they're not... I used rexplorer to rip the map and the mins aren't stacked
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Couldn't find any stacked minerals in the other games from the series so I really doubt it was something Dimaga did. There was 24 extra mineral patches added to those top bases altogether (although Dimaga didn't use the mineral only). Someone check Idra's Iccup profile to see if he's faced Lastshadow lately?
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
:o dunno this probably doesnt mean much
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if idra did host... none of this makes sense
maybe he just had a bad map and Movie or Much gave to him to mess around with
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yes we have established that it's the map and not DIMAGA, and IdrA was the host so.. most likely just hosted a bad map that he got from some random user
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On July 29 2009 07:19 Etherone wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:08 arb wrote:
We need a statement from idra(who visits) to tell us who hosted the map Idra's going to be pissed when he sees this, and rightfully so. it's pretty revolting to see this, one thing is combat ex cheating to get B- on iccup which is in it's self disgusting, but this... this is a pro euro player in a tournament with a prize pool, run by the community and against other professionals. appalling to say the least, and congrats to dimaga he just lost any respect he had in the community and probably his spot on anymore community run tournaments. I would also like a rep pack of all previous dimaga tournament wins made available to check if this is the first time, or if this has been done often.
lol, way too early
also funny how Dimaga seemed to know about this :o
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On July 29 2009 07:46 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:39 lokiM wrote:DIMAGA didn't cheat download the map Here and host it on melee, the top bases are definately stacked What? no they're not... I used rexplorer to rip the map and the mins aren't stacked
the minerals are stacked and it is the map
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LOL
This is the best post ever...
Start the flamming wars!
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On July 29 2009 07:46 Kentor wrote:it's definitely the map
ohboyohboyohboy
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On July 29 2009 07:47 lokiM wrote:
yes we have established that it's the map and not DIMAGA, and IdrA was the host so.. most likely just hosted a bad map that he got from some random user
That's so much less interesting.
It's like the whole AT&T banned 4chan drama... oh wait they didn't, they were just trying to stop a DDoS attack and 4chan was fine in like 8 hours.
It's over before it gets interesting.
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On July 29 2009 07:47 lokiM wrote:
yes we have established that it's the map and not DIMAGA, and IdrA was the host so.. most likely just hosted a bad map that he got from some random user
if thats the case, dimaga is still a dick for not telling its a fucked map imo.
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On July 29 2009 07:39 lokiM wrote:DIMAGA didn't cheat download the map Here and host it on melee, the top bases are definately stacked
NvM , I was doing it wrong. The map is stacked yeah.
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On July 29 2009 07:50 eXigent. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:39 lokiM wrote:DIMAGA didn't cheat download the map Here and host it on melee, the top bases are definately stacked I downloaded the map and played it on melee. I used 2 drones each time to try and mine. The map does NOT have stacked minerals. 1 Drone always had to wait for the other to finish, on every single mineral patch at the top base. So I dunno what you mean. I can upload the replay to prove it if you want.
Things get interesting again!!!
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On July 29 2009 07:50 mcJ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:47 lokiM wrote:
yes we have established that it's the map and not DIMAGA, and IdrA was the host so.. most likely just hosted a bad map that he got from some random user if thats the case, dimaga is still a dick for not telling its a fucked map imo.
Would you notice? I wouldn't
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Seems unlikely there's foul play in there if IdrA's the host. One can blame DIMAGA for not speaking out about this though, especially if he noticed it (which as he apparently moved his drones, he did).
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On July 29 2009 07:50 eXigent. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:39 lokiM wrote:DIMAGA didn't cheat download the map Here and host it on melee, the top bases are definately stacked I downloaded the map and played it on melee. I used 2 drones each time to try and mine. The map does NOT have stacked minerals. 1 Drone always had to wait for the other to finish, on every single mineral patch at the top base. So I dunno what you mean. I can upload the replay to prove it if you want.
I did the same and the minerals weren't stacked when I tried it as well.
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Also, if you extract the map from a replay, what makes you think it wouldn't have saved the altered map if dimaga hacked to change it?
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On July 29 2009 07:51 nevake wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:50 eXigent. wrote:On July 29 2009 07:39 lokiM wrote:DIMAGA didn't cheat download the map Here and host it on melee, the top bases are definately stacked I downloaded the map and played it on melee. I used 2 drones each time to try and mine. The map does NOT have stacked minerals. 1 Drone always had to wait for the other to finish, on every single mineral patch at the top base. So I dunno what you mean. I can upload the replay to prove it if you want. I did the same and the minerals weren't stacked when I tried it as well.
I just tried and the minerals ARE stacked.
edit: if you send them both to the same minerals patch one will sit there and the other will mine. Let them go through a single cycle and then you will see they stack.
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On July 29 2009 07:51 nevake wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:50 eXigent. wrote:On July 29 2009 07:39 lokiM wrote:DIMAGA didn't cheat download the map Here and host it on melee, the top bases are definately stacked I downloaded the map and played it on melee. I used 2 drones each time to try and mine. The map does NOT have stacked minerals. 1 Drone always had to wait for the other to finish, on every single mineral patch at the top base. So I dunno what you mean. I can upload the replay to prove it if you want. I did the same and the minerals weren't stacked when I tried it as well.
So no reports are conflicting. Some people found no stacked minerals, some did? So what's going on, are you all checking the same map?
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Kentor what program is that?
and only a few of them are stacked keep sending ur units around to different patches and you'll find it
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On July 29 2009 07:46 mcJ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:44 Carnac wrote:On July 29 2009 07:39 YPang wrote:
why isn't dimaga defending himself? The thread is like an hour old... and worth gold, thats for sure!
o yeah hope this wasnt a hack and just the map though
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United States12607 Posts
Hacked map or not, nobody's explained this yet:
On July 29 2009 06:37 arb wrote:
EDIT : Oh wow, he was actually moving the double mining drones away when idras scv would come..
Just wow
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its because you guys are clicking the same mineral, if you take 2 drones and keep trying it over and over you'll see its stacked... you can even see the shadows
the same thing happened to me I thought they werent stacked but I kept trying and you can clearly tell they're stacked
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are you guys using different maps?
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On July 29 2009 07:52 Zzoram wrote:
Also, if you extract the map from a replay, what makes you think it wouldn't have saved the altered map if dimaga hacked to change it?
Actually i thought about this. The program extracts the map from the replay and in the replay the map was already altered
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you cant send the workers all at once, or they will wait in line. If you send 1 worker, and then a 2nd one right as the first get's there, then they will both mine at the same time.
Actually i thought about this. The program extracts the map from the replay and in the replay the map was already altered
I guess the only way to prove this is to have idra upload the original map
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On July 29 2009 07:51 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:50 mcJ wrote:On July 29 2009 07:47 lokiM wrote:
yes we have established that it's the map and not DIMAGA, and IdrA was the host so.. most likely just hosted a bad map that he got from some random user if thats the case, dimaga is still a dick for not telling its a fucked map imo. Would you notice? I wouldn't
thats why he moved drones away when scv was near.right
idra hosted rigged map to laugh at him in case of beating him with such disadvantage.
but since he lost, this shall not be revealed!
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just a bad version of the map.
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You guys are just testing it wrong >_>
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On July 29 2009 07:53 lokiM wrote:
its because you guys are clicking the same mineral, if you take 2 drones and keep trying it over and over you'll see its stacked... you can even see the shadows
the same thing happened to me I thought they werent stacked but I kept trying and you can clearly tell they're stacked
Wait... so in order to mine on the stacked mins, you have to keep clicking?
Doesn't this confirm it's Dimaga or am I missing something?
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
lmfao TL Detectives unite! I feel like we're trying to solve a crime scene, this shit is intense.
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Greg!!! Where are youuuuuuuu!!?!?????
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On July 29 2009 07:54 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:53 lokiM wrote:
its because you guys are clicking the same mineral, if you take 2 drones and keep trying it over and over you'll see its stacked... you can even see the shadows
the same thing happened to me I thought they werent stacked but I kept trying and you can clearly tell they're stacked Wait... so in order to mine on the stacked mins, you have to keep clicking? Doesn't this confirm it's Dimaga or am I missing something?
no... omg
just make a bunch of workers and watch them you can tell they're mining from multiple mineral fields
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On July 29 2009 07:55 InfeSteD wrote:
Greg!!! Where are youuuuuuuu!!?!?????
it's 8 AM in Korea
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hahahah omg this is hilarioussss
must dl rep immediately
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we could just wait for either Digmaga or Idra to clear things up
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On July 29 2009 07:54 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:53 lokiM wrote:
its because you guys are clicking the same mineral, if you take 2 drones and keep trying it over and over you'll see its stacked... you can even see the shadows
the same thing happened to me I thought they werent stacked but I kept trying and you can clearly tell they're stacked Wait... so in order to mine on the stacked mins, you have to keep clicking? Doesn't this confirm it's Dimaga or am I missing something?
you don't have to keep clicking, the workers move to another mineral patch if the current one they want to mine is occupied
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but in the map extracted from the replay, only 12 o'clocks minerals are stacked?
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On July 29 2009 07:55 SilverskY wrote:
lmfao TL Detectives unite! I feel like we're trying to solve a crime scene, this shit is intense.
lol
Damn, I was just about to go to sleep and this thread poped up.
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On July 29 2009 07:56 gotwater wrote:
we could just wait for either Digmaga or Idra to clear things up
wait? what?
THIS
IS.
DRAMMAAAAAA
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
On July 29 2009 07:52 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:51 nevake wrote:On July 29 2009 07:50 eXigent. wrote:On July 29 2009 07:39 lokiM wrote:DIMAGA didn't cheat download the map Here and host it on melee, the top bases are definately stacked I downloaded the map and played it on melee. I used 2 drones each time to try and mine. The map does NOT have stacked minerals. 1 Drone always had to wait for the other to finish, on every single mineral patch at the top base. So I dunno what you mean. I can upload the replay to prove it if you want. I did the same and the minerals weren't stacked when I tried it as well. So no reports are conflicting. Some people found no stacked minerals, some did? So what's going on, are you all checking the same map?
some people just don't know how to find it. if you extract the map from the replay it will be stacked. and yeah extracting it doesnt mean much if the map is altered by a hack
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So.. the map was altered and Idra Hosted the map?
And Dimaga is the cheater? this is weird... really weird.
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On July 29 2009 07:56 zulu_nation8 wrote:
but in the map extracted from the replay, only 12 o'clocks minerals are stacked?
nope, most of the north bases are stacked
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On July 29 2009 07:53 JWD wrote:Hacked map or not, nobody's explained this yet: Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 06:37 arb wrote:
EDIT : Oh wow, he was actually moving the double mining drones away when idras scv would come..
Just wow
He definently knew they were stacked and said nothing, also went to great lengths to ensure Idras SCV never saw the drones mining them until after the scv died.
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I don't think extracting the map from the replay is going to produce accurate results, because the hack could conflict with it.
But yes, if you watch the replay, there are CLEARLY multiple drones mining one patch, and this occurs ONLY in Dimaga's base. Also, it's apparent that he moves them away when scouted, as has already been said. In addition to this, if you repeatedly click on and off a patch, you'll eventually select the second patch with a different mineral count, as shown in the OP's screenshots.
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On July 29 2009 07:57 lokiM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:56 zulu_nation8 wrote:
but in the map extracted from the replay, only 12 o'clocks minerals are stacked? nope, most of the north bases are stacked
so only the player who spawns at top gets the advantage, and the spawning points on the map are random?
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This all doesn't explain how Dimaga would not say anything as in good sportsmanship if it was just rigged "map" but instead just keep playing...how is that not suspicious?
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So the extracted map shows stacked minerals in dimaga's half of the map only, and a hack was used to modify the map, that's the version that would be in the replay so that doesn't tell us too much. The replay shows him strategically moving his double stacked mining drones away when Idra has vision. That tells a lot.
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On July 29 2009 07:57 FranzF1 wrote:
So.. the map was altered and Idra Hosted the map?
And Dimaga is the cheater? this is weird... really weird.
hard to say, we could be just downloading the altered map that was saved in the replay. Only way to know if the actual map was stacked is to have Idra release the map (not the replay version)
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
I'm gonna make a youtube video of dimaga moving drones away from the SCV... brb
EDIT: AHHHH HAKU TEMPLAAA
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On July 29 2009 07:59 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:57 lokiM wrote:On July 29 2009 07:56 zulu_nation8 wrote:
but in the map extracted from the replay, only 12 o'clocks minerals are stacked? nope, most of the north bases are stacked so only the player who spawns at top gets the advantage, and the spawning points on the map are random?
yes, this would be my guess because IdrA was the host and he spawned at the bottom
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On July 29 2009 07:57 FranzF1 wrote:
So.. the map was altered and Idra Hosted the map?
And Dimaga is the cheater? this is weird... really weird.
It still makes no sense for Idra to host a hack map and not cheat on it himself.
If that adding mineral hack exists this is proof
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lol drama this is why exatcly i leave from created game when i see download going on when i know i got all iccup maps 100%
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On July 29 2009 07:59 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:57 lokiM wrote:On July 29 2009 07:56 zulu_nation8 wrote:
but in the map extracted from the replay, only 12 o'clocks minerals are stacked? nope, most of the north bases are stacked so only the player who spawns at top gets the advantage, and the spawning points on the map are random?
The hack altered the map, the replay saved the altered map, so extracting the map from the replay shows the stacked minerals.
Dimaga moving his drones to hide the fact he's using stacked minerals so he clearly knew they were stacked and was hiding the fact from Idra's scout.
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On July 29 2009 07:53 JWD wrote:Hacked map or not, nobody's explained this yet: Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 06:37 arb wrote:
EDIT : Oh wow, he was actually moving the double mining drones away when idras scv would come..
Just wow
I just watched the replay and I didn't see this at all. While the scv was scouting, Dimaga never had more then a 1 to 1 drone mineral ratio so he never had to move drones around.
If you watch game 2 (no stacked minerals) he uses that same idea and only uses 9 drones for his main.
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On July 29 2009 07:57 FranzF1 wrote:
So.. the map was altered and Idra Hosted the map?
And Dimaga is the cheater? this is weird... really weird.
It has to be an accident I would think...seems unlikely Idra would knowingly give his opponent an unfair advantage, especially in a $1000 tournament.
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The map's top bases' outer two minerals on both sides/top/bottom are all double stack, there was no hack used to "add minerals", or if there was, it was unnecessary. If Idra hosted map, Dimiga couldn't have known the map had stacked minerals and thus it's incredibly unlikely that he used a hack to guarantee himself the top position.
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I can't wait for idra to wake up and see this
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I don't see exactly where DIMAGA moved drones away from idras scv? some1 give me a time of when it happens?
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Oh man, waiting for IdrA's reaction
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On July 29 2009 08:02 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:57 FranzF1 wrote:
So.. the map was altered and Idra Hosted the map?
And Dimaga is the cheater? this is weird... really weird. It has to be an accident I would think...seems unlikely Idra would knowingly give his opponent an unfair advantage, especially in a $1000 tournament.
Idra wouldn't do this on purpose, and he may have done nothing at all. Dimaga may have been using a hack to alter the map after it started.
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On July 29 2009 08:02 kNyTTyM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:53 JWD wrote:Hacked map or not, nobody's explained this yet: On July 29 2009 06:37 arb wrote:
EDIT : Oh wow, he was actually moving the double mining drones away when idras scv would come..
Just wow I just watched the replay and I didn't see this at all. While the scv was scouting, Dimaga never had more then a 1 to 1 drone mineral ratio so he never had to move drones around. If you watch game 2 (no stacked minerals) he uses that same idea and only uses 9 drones for his main.
Watch it again, there's clearly more than 1 drone mining per patch at many times.
Or just click the patches until it selects the bogus ones.
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On July 29 2009 08:00 motbob wrote:
I'm gonna make a youtube video of dimaga moving drones away from the SCV... brb
EDIT: AHHHH HAKU TEMPLAAA
Please upload this and embed it. Actually, the thread creator needs to embed it in the first post.
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On July 29 2009 08:01 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:59 zulu_nation8 wrote:On July 29 2009 07:57 lokiM wrote:On July 29 2009 07:56 zulu_nation8 wrote:
but in the map extracted from the replay, only 12 o'clocks minerals are stacked? nope, most of the north bases are stacked so only the player who spawns at top gets the advantage, and the spawning points on the map are random? The hack altered the map, the replay saved the altered map, so extracting the map from the replay shows the stacked minerals. Dimaga moving his drones to hide the fact he's using stacked minerals so he clearly knew they were stacked and was hiding the fact from Idra's scout.
That's very elaborate, but without Idra how can you prove he used a hack to modify the map? That Idra accidentally or purposefully (the former far more likely) hosted an edited map and Dimiga noticed and took advantage is far more simple. Occam's Razor suggests the simpler explanation.
But we obviously need Idra's feedback on the map he made.
Is there actually proof of such a hack existing?
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On July 29 2009 08:03 lokiM wrote:
I don't see exactly where DIMAGA moved drones away from idras scv? some1 give me a time of when it happens?
watch the first part of the replay up to where hsi scv dies.
i mostly observered it on the bottom 3-4 patches
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On July 29 2009 08:02 Nightmarjoo wrote:
The map's top bases' outer two minerals on both sides/top/bottom are all double stack, there was no hack used to "add minerals", or if there was, it was unnecessary. If Idra hosted map, Dimiga couldn't have known the map had stacked minerals and thus it's incredibly unlikely that he used a hack to guarantee himself the top position.
Can you use a hosthack to change the map that is hosted?
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On July 29 2009 08:05 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:03 lokiM wrote:
I don't see exactly where DIMAGA moved drones away from idras scv? some1 give me a time of when it happens? watch the first part of the replay up to where hsi scv dies. i mostly observered it on the bottom 3-4 patches
Well, honestly i do it myself sometimes too, just to have equal worker count on each base. Seriously i didnt see where Dimaga actually moved away drones to hide the fact that he's mining stacked minerals
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On July 29 2009 08:05 Nightmarjoo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:01 Zzoram wrote:On July 29 2009 07:59 zulu_nation8 wrote:On July 29 2009 07:57 lokiM wrote:On July 29 2009 07:56 zulu_nation8 wrote:
but in the map extracted from the replay, only 12 o'clocks minerals are stacked? nope, most of the north bases are stacked so only the player who spawns at top gets the advantage, and the spawning points on the map are random? The hack altered the map, the replay saved the altered map, so extracting the map from the replay shows the stacked minerals. Dimaga moving his drones to hide the fact he's using stacked minerals so he clearly knew they were stacked and was hiding the fact from Idra's scout. That's very elaborate, but without Idra how can you prove he used a hack to modify the map? That Idra accidentally or purposefully (the former far more likely) hosted an edited map and Dimiga noticed and took advantage is far more simple. Occam's Razor suggests the simpler explanation. But we obviously need Idra's feedback on the map he made. Is there actually proof of such a hack existing?
Even if that was the case, dimaga shouldn't have hidden the fact that the wrong map was used, he could've said something fairly early in the game. Unless he didn't notice, which is possible.
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*WAITS IMPATIENTLY!* (did i even spell right?)
F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F55F5F5F5F5
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Can anyone confirm what the latest hacks floating around do to see if they can create stacked minerals after a game starts?
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On July 29 2009 08:07 (paladin)roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:05 arb wrote:On July 29 2009 08:03 lokiM wrote:
I don't see exactly where DIMAGA moved drones away from idras scv? some1 give me a time of when it happens? watch the first part of the replay up to where hsi scv dies. i mostly observered it on the bottom 3-4 patches Well, honestly i do it myself sometimes too, just to have equal worker count on each base. Seriously i didnt see where Dimaga actually moved away drones to hide the fact that he's mining stacked minerals
This
When you make 2 hatcheries in your main you have to send more drones to your natural, it's too hard to tell and it doesn't look like he did that on purpose at all to me
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On July 29 2009 08:07 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:05 Nightmarjoo wrote:On July 29 2009 08:01 Zzoram wrote:On July 29 2009 07:59 zulu_nation8 wrote:On July 29 2009 07:57 lokiM wrote:On July 29 2009 07:56 zulu_nation8 wrote:
but in the map extracted from the replay, only 12 o'clocks minerals are stacked? nope, most of the north bases are stacked so only the player who spawns at top gets the advantage, and the spawning points on the map are random? The hack altered the map, the replay saved the altered map, so extracting the map from the replay shows the stacked minerals. Dimaga moving his drones to hide the fact he's using stacked minerals so he clearly knew they were stacked and was hiding the fact from Idra's scout. That's very elaborate, but without Idra how can you prove he used a hack to modify the map? That Idra accidentally or purposefully (the former far more likely) hosted an edited map and Dimiga noticed and took advantage is far more simple. Occam's Razor suggests the simpler explanation. But we obviously need Idra's feedback on the map he made. Is there actually proof of such a hack existing? Even if that was the case, dimaga shouldn't have hidden the fact that the wrong map was used, he could've said something fairly early in the game.
Agreed.
I saw a replay once that an iccup admin reviewed where the player used a modified map that had neutral heros and units in his base. So he had picked protoss and rushed mc while turtling in his main, the other guy was like "lol I'll just sit here and win". He had bcs and crazy strong units etc pretty quickly. Adding stacks to iccup maps would be a sinch, and iccup has no way to prevent it really. They just go by the map name.
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we know more drama than TNT
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On July 29 2009 08:04 Mikilatov wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:02 kNyTTyM wrote:On July 29 2009 07:53 JWD wrote:Hacked map or not, nobody's explained this yet: On July 29 2009 06:37 arb wrote:
EDIT : Oh wow, he was actually moving the double mining drones away when idras scv would come..
Just wow I just watched the replay and I didn't see this at all. While the scv was scouting, Dimaga never had more then a 1 to 1 drone mineral ratio so he never had to move drones around. If you watch game 2 (no stacked minerals) he uses that same idea and only uses 9 drones for his main. Watch it again, there's clearly more than 1 drone mining per patch at many times. Or just click the patches until it selects the bogus ones.
Sorry I didn't mention the period. It comes after the drone transfer + drones on gas until his natural is decently saturated.
In both reps from around 3:20 to 5:30. I used the desty and heartbreak reps
You can see he likes to keep about a 1:1 ratio and then at the next round of drones after 5 minutes are put onto his main line.
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On July 29 2009 07:54 Itachii wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:51 motbob wrote:On July 29 2009 07:50 mcJ wrote:On July 29 2009 07:47 lokiM wrote:
yes we have established that it's the map and not DIMAGA, and IdrA was the host so.. most likely just hosted a bad map that he got from some random user if thats the case, dimaga is still a dick for not telling its a fucked map imo. Would you notice? I wouldn't thats why he moved drones away when scv was near.right idra hosted rigged map to laugh at him in case of beating him with such disadvantage. but since he lost, this shall not be revealed!
So Idra KNEW he wouldn't get the north base?
So if he did he would of just abused it himself eh but was just hoping he wouldn't get it?
Stupid argument. If Dimaga did move drones (and this can be proven as malicious rather than just moving to diff piles or running from units) then it just means he's an asshole for taking advantage of the map. Can anyone here say Idra is of good enough moral standing that if he DID notice it he wouldn't use it either? Dunno, but it seems clear Dimaga didn't go into the game knowing he would do this.
ALSO... if Idra did know the map was messed up, then he would EXPECT Dimaga to try and abuse it. Since nothing was said in game this either means that Idra might not of known the map was messed up, or when he saw no double-mining with his scout he assumed Dimaga never noticed it or he decided to just play along for whatever reason.
Just more questions to answer lol.
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Trinidad/Tobago1177 Posts
On July 29 2009 08:02 YPang wrote:
dramaga
LOL. I hope DIMAGA is not another localhost =[
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A few things i wanted to say, has anyone checked the map for a trigger that forces one player to spawn in a location? Plus even though Idra hosted isn't it possible they played before with Dimega hosting first with the map?
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On July 29 2009 08:14 infinity2k9 wrote:
A few things i wanted to say, has anyone checked the map for a trigger that forces one player to spawn in a location? Plus even though Idra hosted isn't it possible they played before with Dimega hosting first with the map?
melee has no triggers
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On July 29 2009 08:14 infinity2k9 wrote:
A few things i wanted to say, has anyone checked the map for a trigger that forces one player to spawn in a location? Plus even though Idra hosted isn't it possible they played before with Dimega hosting first with the map?
it's melee so no triggers ;p
damn you NightMarjoo
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On July 29 2009 08:15 Nightmarjoo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:14 infinity2k9 wrote:
A few things i wanted to say, has anyone checked the map for a trigger that forces one player to spawn in a location? Plus even though Idra hosted isn't it possible they played before with Dimega hosting first with the map? melee has no triggers
Oh so it definitely was played on melee then? Well. It would be retarded to take a 50/50 risk of giving yourself an advantage.
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On July 29 2009 08:15 lokiM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:14 infinity2k9 wrote:
A few things i wanted to say, has anyone checked the map for a trigger that forces one player to spawn in a location? Plus even though Idra hosted isn't it possible they played before with Dimega hosting first with the map? it's melee so no triggers ;p damn you NightMarjoo
aha I have marred your post (and it's night somewhere)!
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On July 29 2009 08:16 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:15 Nightmarjoo wrote:On July 29 2009 08:14 infinity2k9 wrote:
A few things i wanted to say, has anyone checked the map for a trigger that forces one player to spawn in a location? Plus even though Idra hosted isn't it possible they played before with Dimega hosting first with the map? melee has no triggers Oh so it definitely was played on melee then? Well. It would be retarded to take a 50/50 risk of giving yourself an advantage.
And if Idra hosted, I can't imagine he'd think he would need an advantage to win.
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which means he mistakenly hosted a rigged map
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Makes you wonder whos using stacked min maps on iccup then. Idra would be only playing at high levels if he accidently picked it up too.
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Which also means he is damn lucky that he didn't spawn at 12
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On July 29 2009 08:22 Not_A_Notion wrote:
Which also means he is damn lucky that he didn't spawn at 12
Yea that could've been disastrous.
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Idra wouldn't play out the game if he saw there were stacked minerals... 1) he doesn't need to use any kind of advantage to beat people, and 2) something like that could cause him a lot of trouble so he would avoid it...
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
OK i rewatched the replay.. it's pretty clear that if Dimaga was hacking, he wasn't trying to hide it.
When idra's SCV first comes up the ramp, it stops before getting to the mins of Dimaga's main. However, Dimaga had no way of knowing it would stop. If he were trying to hide the stacked mins, he would have transferred his drones right away. He didn't.
On July 29 2009 08:22 Not_A_Notion wrote:
Which also means he is damn lucky that he didn't spawn at 12
Thinking about that shitstorm makes me shudder.
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if idra hosted the game, it is his mistake, not dimagas. then idra is the cheater, even if he spawned at the "wrong corner".
if dimaga had a trigger to pull off a hack, then dimaga is the cheater.
i hate when people are so bias towards idra.
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for my two cents, after watching the sequence with the scouting scv, I really didn't think it was all that conclusive that dimaga moved drones out of the way. If he did, he did a really bad job. The SCV was very close to actively stacking drones for quite some time. He did move some drones at the top patches that were stacking, but those drones went to the extractor. It's not weird that he selected the closest drones for that.
He was also stacking visibly later on when idra moved his pre-muta attack into the nat.
Maybe I'm missing something though. This sure is a mystery, it sounds so weird that you don't know what to think. It's a good thing that it didn't affect the outcome of the series.
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Man, I hope Starcraft 2 solves the garbage map issue by pushing out Blizzard stamped maps (community made and chosen, or Blizzard made) and forcing their use through automated match making. Then there can only be the explanation of cheating if something goes wrong, making it more cut and dry.
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On July 29 2009 07:08 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 06:53 MYM.Testie wrote:
It could just be a bad version of a map. Did he even host the game? Sometimes that stuff just happens due to lame maps being around.
Someone explain, i thought testie was only caught map hacking, not rigged maps, there was other times where he was caught?
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I wonder if anyone would even notice stacked workers.
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Fair point but its something that could be easy to miss out on also, I do believe if he had spotted it he would have called it but if he hadn't.., but then "if ifs and buts", waiting to see that vid of drones being moved, I can't really see it so i need it explained
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On July 29 2009 08:24 Zzoram wrote:
Man, I hope Starcraft 2 solves the garbage map issue by pushing out Blizzard stamped maps (community made and chosen, or Blizzard made) and forcing their use through automated match making. Then there can only be the explanation of cheating if something goes wrong, making it more cut and dry.
That would force them to be very active in the community to make sure the blizzard maps were relatively balanced and popular, and they have never indicated they wanted to be that involved.
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On July 29 2009 08:24 s.a.y wrote:
if idra hosted the game, it is his mistake, not dimagas. then idra is the cheater, even if he spawned at the "wrong corner".
if dimaga had a trigger to pull off a hack, then dimaga is the cheater.
i hate when people are so bias towards idra.
Yes, but what is idras motivation for doing this? It does not make sense that he would cheat. Still, the evidence does point towards that. :/
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On July 29 2009 08:24 rei wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:08 Kennigit wrote:On July 29 2009 06:53 MYM.Testie wrote:
It could just be a bad version of a map. Did he even host the game? Sometimes that stuff just happens due to lame maps being around. Someone explain, i thought testie was only caught map hacking, not rigged maps, there was other times where he was caught?
I think the point is that it's ironic that Testie would defend the accused cheater, since he himself was caught for cheating. I don't think the type of cheating really matters for the joke to work.
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On July 29 2009 08:24 rei wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:08 Kennigit wrote:On July 29 2009 06:53 MYM.Testie wrote:
It could just be a bad version of a map. Did he even host the game? Sometimes that stuff just happens due to lame maps being around. Someone explain, i thought testie was only caught map hacking, not rigged maps, there was other times where he was caught?
It's still funny when a known cheater insta-defends a possible other cheater like they have a god given insta-bond.
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On July 29 2009 08:23 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:22 Not_A_Notion wrote:
Which also means he is damn lucky that he didn't spawn at 12 Thinking about that shitstorm makes me shudder.
Yeah, that would be TERRIBLE. I bet CJ would kick him out for it, which is why I doubt he would do it. He's living the dream, no way he would risk cheating..
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Are there hacks that allow you to change the map that is hosted and/or pick your start location? I know that there are hosthacks but I don't know what's possible with those.
Rigging a map like that doesn't seem that good if you need to get lucky with your spawn first.
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Hey guys I have nothing new to add to the discussion but I'm going to make a post saying stuff that's already been said anyways.
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Could have been incidental ... Dimaga might have not even noticed that the minerals were stacked but was rather just moving Drones away because he thought they were stacking onto the same mineral patch and NOT mining, which would be highly ironic. It was definitely early enough in the game that this kind of optimization is still fairly common, especially for Zergs.
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someone needs to make a GIF of the two bottom stacked min patches in Dimaga's base at around 8:50
4 drones in near perfect harmony mining 2 patches
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Here's how I see it...
If it's a mineral stacking HACK, then yes, it was Dimaga.
If it's a rigged map, then it's an accident. Idra was the host. Idra would not 50% gamble an advantage when he's the better player without it. That's statistically detrimental.
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With the rigged map:
If he landed on the rigged side, he'd still have an advantage, albeit a greater one.
If he landed on the non-rigged side, he'd have a disadvantage.
With the non-rigged map:
He has the advantage regardless of side, because he's a better player.
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It'd actually HURT Idra to host a rigged map that gives a random player that bonus.
So I see no way Idra can be at fault here.
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On July 29 2009 08:34 Mikilatov wrote:
Here's how I see it...
If it's a mineral stacking HACK, then yes, it was Dimaga.
If it's a rigged map, then it's an accident. Idra was the host. Idra would not 50% gamble an advantage when he's the better player without it. That's statistically detrimental.
So I see no way Idra can be at fault here.
Yeah, plus the worst that could happen to dimaga is he gets banned from foreign tournaments and tries to come back with a new name. Idra could get kicked out of CJ, and sent home with a horrible shame that would haunt him forever.
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On July 29 2009 08:34 Mikilatov wrote:
Here's how I see it...
If it's a mineral stacking HACK, then yes, it was Dimaga.
If it's a rigged map, then it's an accident. Idra was the host. Idra would not 50% gamble an advantage when he's the better player without it. That's statistically detrimental.
So I see no way Idra can be at fault here.
unless IdrA made the map to use it against other people and accidentally hosted it this time.
i dont think this is true but just something else to consider.
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On July 29 2009 08:36 statix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:34 Mikilatov wrote:
Here's how I see it...
If it's a mineral stacking HACK, then yes, it was Dimaga.
If it's a rigged map, then it's an accident. Idra was the host. Idra would not 50% gamble an advantage when he's the better player without it. That's statistically detrimental.
So I see no way Idra can be at fault here. unless IdrA made the map to use it against other people and accidentally hosted it this time. i dont think this is true but just something else to consider.
Ok, still only considering this game, after 8th drone pops out maybe type a "Yo IdrA, I think there's something wrong with map" from Dimaga?
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On July 29 2009 08:36 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:34 Mikilatov wrote:
Here's how I see it...
If it's a mineral stacking HACK, then yes, it was Dimaga.
If it's a rigged map, then it's an accident. Idra was the host. Idra would not 50% gamble an advantage when he's the better player without it. That's statistically detrimental.
So I see no way Idra can be at fault here. Yeah, plus the worst that could happen to dimaga is he gets banned from foreign tournaments and tries to come back with a new name. Idra could get kicked out of CJ, and sent home with a horrible shame that would haunt him forever.
lol, you can't just remake an ukranian A- zerg with a different nickname. same goes for idra, how many A level terran are there in usa?
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On July 29 2009 08:36 statix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:34 Mikilatov wrote:
Here's how I see it...
If it's a mineral stacking HACK, then yes, it was Dimaga.
If it's a rigged map, then it's an accident. Idra was the host. Idra would not 50% gamble an advantage when he's the better player without it. That's statistically detrimental.
So I see no way Idra can be at fault here. unless IdrA made the map to use it against other people and accidentally hosted it this time. i dont think this is true but just something else to consider.
Again, it's too hard to believe that Idra would want to cheat on iccup. With his training and skill, he already has the advantage over foreign players. Also, cheating could get him in trouble with CJ.
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On July 29 2009 08:38 s.a.y wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:36 Zzoram wrote:On July 29 2009 08:34 Mikilatov wrote:
Here's how I see it...
If it's a mineral stacking HACK, then yes, it was Dimaga.
If it's a rigged map, then it's an accident. Idra was the host. Idra would not 50% gamble an advantage when he's the better player without it. That's statistically detrimental.
So I see no way Idra can be at fault here. Yeah, plus the worst that could happen to dimaga is he gets banned from foreign tournaments and tries to come back with a new name. Idra could get kicked out of CJ, and sent home with a horrible shame that would haunt him forever. lol, you can't just remake an ukranian A- zerg with a different nickname. same goes for idra, how many A level terran are there in usa?
Even so, Idra would not cheat because:
Idra gains very little if he cheats, as he's the favourite to win anyways
Idra loses much more, since he can get shamed out of CJ and Korea
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I'm the one in charge of the GG.net blacklist for hackers/abusers etc. and we'll ofc look in to this. Can anyone help me out by PMing the info/link to the mineral stacking hack that apparently exists?
And because I know there will be jokes: Yes I also intend to use to further my own iccups progamerzz careerzzz. Obviously.
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On July 29 2009 08:38 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:36 statix wrote:On July 29 2009 08:34 Mikilatov wrote:
Here's how I see it...
If it's a mineral stacking HACK, then yes, it was Dimaga.
If it's a rigged map, then it's an accident. Idra was the host. Idra would not 50% gamble an advantage when he's the better player without it. That's statistically detrimental.
So I see no way Idra can be at fault here. unless IdrA made the map to use it against other people and accidentally hosted it this time. i dont think this is true but just something else to consider. Ok, still only considering this game, after 8th drone pops out maybe type a "Yo IdrA, I think there's something wrong with map" from Dimaga?
Would you really noticed stacked mins unless it was really obvious and loads of them? Hes hardly going to be paying attention to it.
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On July 29 2009 08:41 Lord_of_Chaos wrote:
I'm the one in charge of the GG.net blacklist for hackers/abusers etc. and I'll ofc look in to this. Can anyone help me out by PMing the info/link to the mineral stacking hack that apparently exists?
And because I know there will be jokes: Yes I also intend to use to further my own iccups progamerzz careerzzz. Obviously.
hahahahah
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has anyone looked at any other reps of dimaga?
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First Idra words "skilless f*cking cheater"
xDDDD
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On July 29 2009 08:36 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:34 Mikilatov wrote:
Here's how I see it...
If it's a mineral stacking HACK, then yes, it was Dimaga.
If it's a rigged map, then it's an accident. Idra was the host. Idra would not 50% gamble an advantage when he's the better player without it. That's statistically detrimental.
So I see no way Idra can be at fault here. Yeah, plus the worst that could happen to dimaga is he gets banned from foreign tournaments and tries to come back with a new name. Idra could get kicked out of CJ, and sent home with a horrible shame that would haunt him forever.
I don't think IdrA would ever be kicked out for something like that haha
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On July 29 2009 06:52 Pads wrote:
Props to the guy at gg.net who found noticed this. Most of us would not have seen this.
Where is their thread about this?
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On July 29 2009 08:45 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:36 Zzoram wrote:On July 29 2009 08:34 Mikilatov wrote:
Here's how I see it...
If it's a mineral stacking HACK, then yes, it was Dimaga.
If it's a rigged map, then it's an accident. Idra was the host. Idra would not 50% gamble an advantage when he's the better player without it. That's statistically detrimental.
So I see no way Idra can be at fault here. Yeah, plus the worst that could happen to dimaga is he gets banned from foreign tournaments and tries to come back with a new name. Idra could get kicked out of CJ, and sent home with a horrible shame that would haunt him forever. I don't think IdrA would ever be kicked out for something like that haha
KeSPA banned offensive ceremonies and ppp. You don't think a team would do something if they found out they had a cheater?
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I dont get it, why would someone rig a map that way? I mean, you dont know what position your going to be in, and I don't see how it specifically helps you if the benefit can be given to all players?
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On July 29 2009 08:45 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:36 Zzoram wrote:On July 29 2009 08:34 Mikilatov wrote:
Here's how I see it...
If it's a mineral stacking HACK, then yes, it was Dimaga.
If it's a rigged map, then it's an accident. Idra was the host. Idra would not 50% gamble an advantage when he's the better player without it. That's statistically detrimental.
So I see no way Idra can be at fault here. Yeah, plus the worst that could happen to dimaga is he gets banned from foreign tournaments and tries to come back with a new name. Idra could get kicked out of CJ, and sent home with a horrible shame that would haunt him forever. I don't think IdrA would ever be kicked out for something like that haha
You have GOT to be kidding...
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Just to make things more clear. There are 2 times when dimaga moves his drones off of the stacked patch when the SCV is in his main. The first time, he takes 1 drone from each stacked patch, and puts them onto his gas mine. He didn't take the 2 closest drones, he chose 1 drone from each stacked patch. Thats pretty fishy.
The 2nd time is at exactly 4:30. Idras scout scv is coming around the bottom of dimagas mineral patch. He has 1 drone on each patch, and another drone is headed towards the stacked mineral patch. Seeing the scv right there, it looks like dimaga stops his drone before it goes to the stacked patch, turns it around, and sends it to his expo. Out of all his drones, he picks the one that is about to goto the stacked patch, just as idras scv is going by. Seems a bit fishy yes?
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
Idra doesn't cheat on Iccup, look at his rank ROFLFLFL
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On July 29 2009 08:48 eXigent. wrote:
Just to make things more clear. There are 2 times when dimaga moves his drones off of the stacked patch when the SCV is in his main. The first time, he takes 1 drone from each stacked patch, and puts them onto his gas mine. He didn't take the 2 closest drones, he chose 1 drone from each stacked patch. Thats pretty fishy.
The 2nd time is at exactly 4:30. Idras scout scv is coming around the bottom of dimagas mineral patch. He has 1 drone on each patch, and another drone is headed towards the stacked mineral patch. Seeing the scv right there, it looks like dimaga stops his drone before it goes to the stacked patch, turns it around, and sends it to his expo. Out of all his drones, he picks the one that is about to goto the stacked patch, just as idras scv is going by. Seems a bit fishy yes?
Yeah, regardless if a hack was used or not, DIMAGA probably knew about the stacked minerals and was abusing them.
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On July 29 2009 08:48 eXigent. wrote:
Just to make things more clear. There are 2 times when dimaga moves his drones off of the stacked patch when the SCV is in his main. The first time, he takes 1 drone from each stacked patch, and puts them onto his gas mine. He didn't take the 2 closest drones, he chose 1 drone from each stacked patch. Thats pretty fishy.
The 2nd time is at exactly 4:30. Idras scout scv is coming around the bottom of dimagas mineral patch. He has 1 drone on each patch, and another drone is headed towards the stacked mineral patch. Seeing the scv right there, it looks like dimaga stops his drone before it goes to the stacked patch, turns it around, and sends it to his expo. Out of all his drones, he picks the one that is about to goto the stacked patch, just as idras scv is going by. Seems a bit fishy yes?
Not saying Dimaga isn't guilty but this still doesn't explain away the possibility of him just noticing that two Drones were stacked and thinking they weren't mining (or would be replaced immediately if taken off) and switching them to gas for efficiency purposes. It's the kind of thing I do in the early game and I'm a D+ player....
As for the expo thing, balancing Drones is a possible explanation. Again, maybe the odds of all these coincidences is too low, I don't know. Just know that if you were playing on a rigged map and didn't know it was rigged, it would look like Drones were stacking retardedly and you would make an effort to spread them out.
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On July 29 2009 08:46 Dazed_Spy wrote:
I dont get it, why would someone rig a map that way? I mean, you dont know what position your going to be in, and I don't see how it specifically helps you if the benefit can be given to all players?
You would need a hack to ensure you get the correct starting location, something like that should be easy to make, and I assume it already exists. If you are not the host you would also need a hack to have the game played on your map.
Doesn't iccup launcher only check for memory modification during the game, not in the lobby?
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For the lazy:
B+
Statistics
339 - 313 - 0
| iCCup | Destination 1.1
124 | 41%
Which doesn't make sense, because he's played over 650 games according to those stats, but only 124 on Destination 1.1 made up 41% of games? Unless the statistics include last season.
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wow, this is pretty blatant cheating, anyone who watches the replay with both eyes can see it.
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He's only B+? I see he has been A- in his history but still, lower than i expected
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On July 29 2009 08:56 Zzoram wrote:For the lazy: B+ Statistics 339 - 313 - 0 | iCCup | Destination 1.1 124 | 41% Which doesn't make sense, because he's played over 650 games according to those stats, but only 124 on Destination 1.1 made up 41% of games? Unless the statistics include last season.
Because he transferred stats from another account, for map/race stats it only counts the games played on that account.
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What is this maddness???
When this is finally resolved I hope to see a newspost.
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how can a guy like Idra only have like 55% wining rate??
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On July 29 2009 08:59 SkytoM wrote:
how can a guy like Idra only have like 55% wining rate??
Maybe by playing koreans? and other "guys like idra"
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On July 29 2009 09:00 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:59 SkytoM wrote:
how can a guy like Idra only have like 55% wining rate?? Maybe by playing koreans? and other "guys like idra"
i thought there are no Idras around. also do koreans even iccup? don't they train in their houses only to keep builds secret? and an amateur korean shouldn't beat idra.
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On July 29 2009 08:45 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:36 Zzoram wrote:On July 29 2009 08:34 Mikilatov wrote:
Here's how I see it...
If it's a mineral stacking HACK, then yes, it was Dimaga.
If it's a rigged map, then it's an accident. Idra was the host. Idra would not 50% gamble an advantage when he's the better player without it. That's statistically detrimental.
So I see no way Idra can be at fault here. Yeah, plus the worst that could happen to dimaga is he gets banned from foreign tournaments and tries to come back with a new name. Idra could get kicked out of CJ, and sent home with a horrible shame that would haunt him forever. I don't think IdrA would ever be kicked out for something like that haha
It would really make CJ look bad if they kept IdrA on the team for cheating.
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On July 29 2009 09:01 SkytoM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 09:00 keV. wrote:On July 29 2009 08:59 SkytoM wrote:
how can a guy like Idra only have like 55% wining rate?? Maybe by playing koreans? and other "guys like idra" i thought there are no Idras around. also do koreans even iccup? don't they train in their houses only to keep builds secret? and an amateur korean shouldn't beat idra.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=94532
Lots of progamers use ICCUP
well, not lots. But they do.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
Idra does worse on iccup than he does in tournaments cause he leaves games early when they don't really count. At least that's my theory.
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On July 29 2009 08:59 SkytoM wrote:
how can a guy like Idra only have like 55% wining rate??
Shows you how playing at korean hours makes a world of a difference.
Though I am also surprised he is only B+ after that many games.
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On July 29 2009 09:01 SkytoM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 09:00 keV. wrote:On July 29 2009 08:59 SkytoM wrote:
how can a guy like Idra only have like 55% wining rate?? Maybe by playing koreans? and other "guys like idra" i thought there are no Idras around. also do koreans even iccup? don't they train in their houses only to keep builds secret? and an amateur korean shouldn't beat idra.
Because everything you said here is wrong. I'll just say, no.
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On July 29 2009 09:04 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 09:01 SkytoM wrote:On July 29 2009 09:00 keV. wrote:On July 29 2009 08:59 SkytoM wrote:
how can a guy like Idra only have like 55% wining rate?? Maybe by playing koreans? and other "guys like idra" i thought there are no Idras around. also do koreans even iccup? don't they train in their houses only to keep builds secret? and an amateur korean shouldn't beat idra. Because everything you said here is wrong. I'll just say, no.
i was going to say something but this was better haha
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On July 29 2009 09:01 SkytoM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 09:00 keV. wrote:On July 29 2009 08:59 SkytoM wrote:
how can a guy like Idra only have like 55% wining rate?? Maybe by playing koreans? and other "guys like idra" i thought there are no Idras around. also do koreans even iccup? don't they train in their houses only to keep builds secret? and an amateur korean shouldn't beat idra.
http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/ladder.html
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On July 29 2009 09:01 SkytoM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 09:00 keV. wrote:On July 29 2009 08:59 SkytoM wrote:
how can a guy like Idra only have like 55% wining rate?? Maybe by playing koreans? and other "guys like idra" i thought there are no Idras around. also do koreans even iccup? don't they train in their houses only to keep builds secret? and an amateur korean shouldn't beat idra.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=94532
Take a look at that thread to see how many korean pros play iccup. Theres also similar threads going back most seasons.
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On July 29 2009 08:56 Zzoram wrote:For the lazy: B+ Statistics 339 - 313 - 0 | iCCup | Destination 1.1 124 | 41% Which doesn't make sense, because he's played over 650 games according to those stats, but only 124 on Destination 1.1 made up 41% of games? Unless the statistics include last season.
ICCUP stats never make sense to me.
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On July 29 2009 09:01 SkytoM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 09:00 keV. wrote:On July 29 2009 08:59 SkytoM wrote:
how can a guy like Idra only have like 55% wining rate?? Maybe by playing koreans? and other "guys like idra" i thought there are no Idras around. also do koreans even iccup? don't they train in their houses only to keep builds secret? and an amateur korean shouldn't beat idra.
Have you seen the who is who iccup thread? My god can you be that dumb?
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lol. what senseless noob bashing..
i'm used to wc3 stats i'm very 'sorry'. Grubbys and moons made 100-0 back then and everything under 80% win was a shame.
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According to the Who Is Who thread, Idra is Universe and sleepwalker. When did he switch to BenLinus? Which by the way, is such a great name for him.
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On July 29 2009 09:05 Garnet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:56 Zzoram wrote:For the lazy: B+ Statistics 339 - 313 - 0 | iCCup | Destination 1.1 124 | 41% Which doesn't make sense, because he's played over 650 games according to those stats, but only 124 on Destination 1.1 made up 41% of games? Unless the statistics include last season. ICCUP stats never make sense to me.
124 is 41% of 300... could the formula they use not count past 300 lol?
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
For those of you just joining us in this thread
- Idra hosted the game
- The map itself was messed up
- It doesn't look like Dimaga was trying to hide anything (some people disagree with this)
- Idra has no reason to cheat, and especially has no reason to host with a map with a 50% chance of giving his opponent the advantage.
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On July 29 2009 08:31 Crunchums wrote:
Hey guys I have nothing new to add to the discussion but I'm going to make a post saying stuff that's already been said anyways.
^ sums up whole thread
FUCK NOW IM CONTRIBUTING
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Anyone consider the possibility that the coincidental timing between Dimaga moving his drones and Idra's SCV arriving results from Dimaga seeing the SCV? I mean... I'd want to put my screen on the red dot in my base when I see it on the minimap. And if I happened to see stacked drones as a result, I would move them to another patch or another base.
Another possibility: Idra hosts rigged mapped by accident. Dimaga notices the stacking. Dimaga thinks, "hey, this gives me a much better chance of beating Idra, chances are, no one will find out, and even if they do find out, it'll be pretty easy for me to deny noticing it." Considering how much everyone's arguing right now, it's pretty clear that it'll be extremely difficult providing solid evidence that Dimaga did in fact notice.
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On July 29 2009 09:10 motbob wrote:
For those of you just joining us in this thread
- Idra hosted the game
- The map itself was messed up
- It doesn't look like Dimaga was trying to hide anything (PEOPLE WHO WATCHED THE REPLAY disagree with this)
- Idra has no reason to cheat, and especially has no reason to host with a map with a 50% chance of giving his opponent the advantage.
Fixed
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I'm going to watch the replay now, I need to see the suspicious behaviour myself. We should probably all do this.
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On July 29 2009 09:12 Nylan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 09:10 motbob wrote:
For those of you just joining us in this thread
- Idra hosted the game
- The map itself was messed up
- It doesn't look like Dimaga was trying to hide anything (PEOPLE WHO WATCHED THE REPLAY disagree with this)
- Idra has no reason to cheat, and especially has no reason to host with a map with a 50% chance of giving his opponent the advantage. Fixed
yeah though your post is kinda bullshit cause many of those who do agree also watched the replay.
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On July 29 2009 09:08 SkytoM wrote:
lol. what senseless noob bashing..
i'm used to wc3 stats i'm very 'sorry'. Grubbys and moons made 100-0 back then and everything under 80% win was a shame.
Its not "senseless noob bashing" when you derail the thread with dumb questions that could easily be answered with common sense and the search function.
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On July 29 2009 09:13 Zzoram wrote:
I'm going to watch the replay now, I need to see the suspicious behaviour myself. We should probably all do this.
....
why do you post stuff like this
On July 29 2009 08:01 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 07:59 zulu_nation8 wrote:On July 29 2009 07:57 lokiM wrote:On July 29 2009 07:56 zulu_nation8 wrote:
but in the map extracted from the replay, only 12 o'clocks minerals are stacked? nope, most of the north bases are stacked so only the player who spawns at top gets the advantage, and the spawning points on the map are random? The hack altered the map, the replay saved the altered map, so extracting the map from the replay shows the stacked minerals. Dimaga moving his drones to hide the fact he's using stacked minerals so he clearly knew they were stacked and was hiding the fact from Idra's scout.
if you hadn't actually seen it yourself :S
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Honestly if you dont see dimaga was trying to hide anything youre either. Very bad at noticing details , or an Idra hater that doesnt want to admit someone had to cheat to beat him.
Just watch the bottom patch while idras scv is alive. Just before the scv gets there the 2nd mining drone(on that patch) is moved to his natural. After idras scv dies dimaga doesnt bother evening things out and keeps his drones there.
He knew it was stacked people.
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How could IdrA have hosted a hacked map? Why not just create from the official ICCUP map pack.
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On July 29 2009 09:15 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 09:13 Zzoram wrote:
I'm going to watch the replay now, I need to see the suspicious behaviour myself. We should probably all do this. .... why do you post stuff like this Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 08:01 Zzoram wrote:On July 29 2009 07:59 zulu_nation8 wrote:On July 29 2009 07:57 lokiM wrote:On July 29 2009 07:56 zulu_nation8 wrote:
but in the map extracted from the replay, only 12 o'clocks minerals are stacked? nope, most of the north bases are stacked so only the player who spawns at top gets the advantage, and the spawning points on the map are random? The hack altered the map, the replay saved the altered map, so extracting the map from the replay shows the stacked minerals. Dimaga moving his drones to hide the fact he's using stacked minerals so he clearly knew they were stacked and was hiding the fact from Idra's scout. if you hadn't actually seen it yourself :S
I'm sorry, I was restating something that someone else said. I guess I got overly excited.
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On July 29 2009 09:10 inReacH wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 09:05 Garnet wrote:On July 29 2009 08:56 Zzoram wrote:For the lazy: B+ Statistics 339 - 313 - 0 | iCCup | Destination 1.1 124 | 41% Which doesn't make sense, because he's played over 650 games according to those stats, but only 124 on Destination 1.1 made up 41% of games? Unless the statistics include last season. ICCUP stats never make sense to me. 124 is 41% of 300... could the formula they use not count past 300 lol?
If you look at the number of games it has listed for him under race stats it shows 302 games, 124/302 = ~41%. The race/map stats are taken from the matchlist which does not include games played under different accounts before transferring stats.
I watched the replay and only saw one instance of anything that even remotely looked like Dimaga was attempting to hide something from Idra, but I don't think it was really particularly suspicious even in that case.
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On July 29 2009 09:17 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 09:15 7mk wrote:On July 29 2009 09:13 Zzoram wrote:
I'm going to watch the replay now, I need to see the suspicious behaviour myself. We should probably all do this. .... why do you post stuff like this On July 29 2009 08:01 Zzoram wrote:On July 29 2009 07:59 zulu_nation8 wrote:On July 29 2009 07:57 lokiM wrote:On July 29 2009 07:56 zulu_nation8 wrote:
but in the map extracted from the replay, only 12 o'clocks minerals are stacked? nope, most of the north bases are stacked so only the player who spawns at top gets the advantage, and the spawning points on the map are random? The hack altered the map, the replay saved the altered map, so extracting the map from the replay shows the stacked minerals. Dimaga moving his drones to hide the fact he's using stacked minerals so he clearly knew they were stacked and was hiding the fact from Idra's scout. if you hadn't actually seen it yourself :S I'm sorry, I was restating something that someone else said. I guess I got overly excited.
I guess it's been too long since the last TL esports drama ^^
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Well, by around ~1:50 you can see 3 drones mining from the 2 bottom patches in the main. This is before there is much going on, so if you look at your main, you can see it.
The worst part is that those 3 drones actively mine 2 patches at the bottom while one patch at the top is being ignored for quite a while.
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On July 29 2009 09:08 SkytoM wrote:
lol. what senseless noob bashing..
i'm used to wc3 stats i'm very 'sorry'. Grubbys and moons made 100-0 back then and everything under 80% win was a shame.
Um, Grubby and Moon's skilled level compared to everyone elses' in WC3 is not the same as Idra's skill level compared to everyone elses' in SC.
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8748 Posts
On July 29 2009 09:11 B1nary wrote:
Anyone consider the possibility that the coincidental timing between Dimaga moving his drones and Idra's SCV arriving results from Dimaga seeing the SCV? I mean... I'd want to put my screen on the red dot in my base when I see it on the minimap. And if I happened to see stacked drones as a result, I would move them to another patch or another base.
Another possibility: Idra hosts rigged mapped by accident. Dimaga notices the stacking. Dimaga thinks, "hey, this gives me a much better chance of beating Idra, chances are, no one will find out, and even if they do find out, it'll be pretty easy for me to deny noticing it." Considering how much everyone's arguing right now, it's pretty clear that it'll be extremely difficult providing solid evidence that Dimaga did in fact notice.
i dont think the people running highlander would just go "lol ok he said he didnt notice, np"
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On July 29 2009 09:16 arb wrote:
Honestly if you dont see dimaga was trying to hide anything youre either. Very bad at noticing details , or an Idra hater that doesnt want to admit someone had to cheat to beat him.
Just watch the bottom patch while idras scv is alive. Just before the scv gets there the 2nd mining drone(on that patch) is moved to his natural. After idras scv dies dimaga doesnt bother evening things out and keeps his drones there.
He knew it was stacked people.
If you're going to tell me that I'm a) bad at watching replays or b) biased just because I hold an opinion, then get the fuck out.
I've already said that when Idra's SCV went up the ramp, it stopped. Dimaga had no way of knowing it wasn't going to go straight to his minerals, so if he were trying to hide something, he would have moved the stacked drones. He didn't.
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Curious to see what happens next. Ironic that Dimaga still lost :S would be more drama if he won.
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Even if he did notice why would he risk moving his drones around and make it obvious in replay, when he could just leave it as normal and get the advantage and if Idra noticed then he could say 'well you hosted game' anyway.
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Well this is going to be harder to do in SC2 as maps and replays are different files. Slight changes at map will mean that you can't run that replay without having correct map.
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On July 29 2009 09:16 arb wrote:
Honestly if you dont see dimaga was trying to hide anything youre either. Very bad at noticing details , or an Idra hater that doesnt want to admit someone had to cheat to beat him.
Just watch the bottom patch while idras scv is alive. Just before the scv gets there the 2nd mining drone(on that patch) is moved to his natural. After idras scv dies dimaga doesnt bother evening things out and keeps his drones there.
He knew it was stacked people.
there's no point into listening to you
for 1 you don't play zerg and don't understand that you have to transfer drones in order to even the drones per base, DIMAGA did nothing 'suspicious', you guys that keep saying this make me laugh, if he was trying to hide it then why didn't he do anything when IdrA was scanning? he would've definitely saw stacked drones.
If there is no hack that completely alters a playing field and changes the map within a game, then this is already solved
IDRA HOSTED A BOGUS MAP BY ACCIDENT AND DIMAGA JUST HAPPENED TO BE ON TOP
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On July 29 2009 09:23 tobi9999 wrote:
Curious to see what happens next. Ironic that Dimaga still lost :S would be more drama if he won.
He won the game or are you talking about the series?
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Yeah, so from around 1:48 onwards, you can clearly see drones mining stacked minerals at the bottom of the main. If you are an A level player, you should realize how many drones you have, and that there is 1 patch not being mined at the top when you have 9 drones, which doesn't make sense. That would probably make you look closer at what your drones are doing to see if they glitched.
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For those that can't see or are too lazy to open the rep, here's a quick sample:
+ Show Spoiler +
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uuuh i dont have time to read the whole thread right now but i hosted that game
i must have just dled a rigged map while playing on iccup, can someone tell me the file name so i can delete it?
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RoX.DIMAGA wrote:
LOL yea realy i see now replay and its realy stack i was OO WTF ?? and see the map in DOWNLOAD same names just have some " " and in that map only in 12 hours always same shit(4 drones mining top 2 minerals), i dont remmeber who create game i think it was idra ...
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_ iCCup _ Destination 1.1
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On July 29 2009 09:27 IdrA wrote:
uuuh i dont have time to read the whole thread right now but i hosted that game
i must have just dled a rigged map while playing on iccup, can someone tell me the file name so i can delete it?
ANTICLIMAX
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On July 29 2009 09:29 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 09:27 IdrA wrote:
uuuh i dont have time to read the whole thread right now but i hosted that game
i must have just dled a rigged map while playing on iccup, can someone tell me the file name so i can delete it? ANTICLIMAX
Yeah, less exciting, but probably better for the Starcraft scene.
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It's only anticlimax if dimaga didn't notice. Let's hope so.
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Idra has spoken! Somewhat anticlimactic. So much potential for a huge shitfest from something like this, like if Dimaga hosted or Idra spawned 12.
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On July 29 2009 09:27 IdrA wrote:
uuuh i dont have time to read the whole thread right now but i hosted that game
i must have just dled a rigged map while playing on iccup, can someone tell me the file name so i can delete it?
What about your iccup stats, everyone's confused!
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when you xfer stats it doesnt show all your games, it's never been like that
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Easy solution to this problem guys:
Put official iccup maps in their own folder. I just rename the folder that I DL from iccup's website and stick it inside my maps folder. That way, there is no possible mixup if you are hosting, since maps you DL automatically go into Download and not whatever named iccup folder you have.
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To whomever said that it was weird the drones he moved for gas, I'm not a high level zerg player, but even I pick the drones from patches that are oversaturated when I am picking my gas drones, it kills two birds with one stone and I don't need to pick the closest drones because they take so long to go in and out of the geyser it doesn't really matter if I take one from the top and one from the bottom.
However, as a 140 apm user I find it weird that he didn't notice the drones were stacked and all mining later, but I bet a player of that calibre doesn't sit around watching his drones mine like I do.
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Problem solved. All this spectulation got most of the people who posted in this thread nowhere. Good job to everyone who bumped this thread up to 15 pages on conjecture.
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okthx, actions were taken:
-banned idra's city (seoul) for hosting a rigged map
-banned dimaga's city
-banned some other cities cuz why not
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Oh snap, nice find, hahahaha.
EDIT: Thanks unk.
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Braavos36375 Posts
On July 29 2009 09:40 unk. wrote:
okthx, actions were taken:
-banned idra's city (seoul) for hosting a rigged map
-banned dimaga's city
-banned some other cities cuz why not
Rofl. Thread locked.
Summary:
Idra created on a rigged Destination in favor of 12:00 (stacked minerals). Dimaga spawned there (imagine if Idra spawned there, LOLOL).
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Osaka27149 Posts
On July 29 2009 09:43 Hot_Bid wrote:
Idra created on a rigged Destination in favor of 12:00 (stacked minerals). Dimaga spawned there (imagine if Idra spawned there, LOLOL).
Jut burn the motherfucker down right now.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On July 29 2009 09:40 unk. wrote:
okthx, actions were taken:
-banned idra's city (seoul) for hosting a rigged map
-banned dimaga's city
-banned some other cities cuz why not
Give this man a star.
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Belgium9947 Posts
Yeah can you even imagine what wouldve happened if IdrA had spawned at that position? All the accusations?
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EPT
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