EPTOn July 18 2009 02:07 TwoStep wrote:
So I am the only to notice skyhigh poor play recently.
So I am the only to notice skyhigh poor play recently.
what poor play?
Why Samsung KHAN Will Win the Proleague - Page 2
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
what poor play? | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
Stork, Jangbi, and FBH are such amazing players when they're on. Each of them used to be S-class in at least two matchups and they all had a cool style. There's a chance they'll lift themselves up by the bootstraps and play the way they used to... | ||
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FranzF1
Chile1710 Posts
1- Khan was on vacation... JB, Stork and FBH were just party and stuff, now its time for the real game 2- STX doesnt have July on the lineup 3- CJ, Hite?? wtf KHAN>>>>All 4- Oz??? lets see... JD and Backho only 2 players T_T you are dead OZ 5- SKTt1? WAT... Stork, jangbi, fbh > Bisu, Best, fantasy 6- ![[image loading]](http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/1505/ec9db4ec84b1ec9d80jx4.gif) ![[image loading]](http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/4046/4783510acac3fnormalbg9.gif) http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?type=players&id=43&part=ceremonies&video_part=2 FUCK YEAH!! KHAN HWAITING! | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
On July 18 2009 01:59 Musoeun wrote: The STX lite comment: 1) Yes, was exaggeration, but 2) Has a grain of truth. In all but ZvZ, Calm is at least EffOrt's equal, and I'd argue is a superior player. I'm a fan of Kwanro, and not of by.hero, but Kwanro's style is highly hit-or-miss (though mostly hitting recently) while by.hero is good, solid, and improving. I would also take July over sAviOr any day. Modesty adds one more decent Zerg to the list that CJ doesn't match. Effort vs Calm in ZvZ is nowhere near close. Effort is #2 in ZvZ ELO, 8-2 in his last 10, 21-9 overall (70%) and 2-0'd Jaedong recently. Calm is TENTH on the ZvZ ranking, 5-5 in his last 10, and 23-20 (53%) overall. I can't see how you can argue they are even remotely equal, let alone say that Calm is "superior." In the Protoss lineup, I think it's clear that Kal is better than Much right now, and has more left in the tank. While Movie has an ability to come up with one-off builds that work really well, he also has the ability to get completely trapped in his base by OZ's random b-team Zerg. Shuttle is much more solid overall even if his macro's occasionally spotty. Clear win for STX. Unfortunately the maps are not very P-friendly, thus even if Kal is superior to Much and Movie, its not as big a deal. If it ever gets to an Ace match, Effort is the favorite. Terran is the interesting one. In TvT, CJ holds a huge advantage, but in an STX vs CJ match STX should be looking to send Zergs against the Terrans. Hwasin is clearly not as good as Iris, but I feel like sKyHigh's TvT may not be as good as his early results. Hwasin-sKyHigh I call a push. The question is whether STX's extra random Terrans (Notice, Last) who can both win games offset Iris and the failure known as Memory - and whether, if they don't, this offset's CJ's relative Protoss weakness. Again, the P weakness doesn't matter as much, because there will be more Z and T players in the lineups. That's why Iris and Effort are so great in these Bo7s, their ZvZ and TvT skills are very valuable. If I pick top seven players from each team, I'd arrange them like in order: Effort, skyhigh, Iris, Kwanro, Much, sAvior, Movie Calm, Kal, Hwasin, July, Shuttle, by.hero, Last And 1 on 1, in that order, I'd expect your winners to be Effort, Kal, Iris, Kwanro, Shuttle, by.hero, Last, 4-3 STX. I think Kal is better than skyhigh, despite the failed cheese loss in their last meeting, but the kicker is in the tail-end of the lineup, where STX has just a touch more depth than CJ. Of course, if I'm wrong about movie, and he's actually the next big Protoss, that throws my calculation out the window. I disagree, but that's certainly a fair assessment. It's going to be a close match if they play. And when it's close, you usually take the team with the best Ace. | ||
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structuralinertia
Australia1426 Posts
samsung have been luring everyone else into a false sense of security, so if they can somehow find their a-game again they're a good shot at upsetting everyone. I hope.... | ||
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BisuBoi
United States350 Posts
And then on the flipside, Jangbi vs Bisu is a loss for Khan, but Best vs Stork is no way in hell going to be a SKT win. Stork's PvP is 10x better than Best's. Best had a hot streak but once everyone realized he's a macro hound without any tactical sense, his days were numbered. Stork's got his number and will not come up short vs this guy. Then you look at the other matchups possible. As if Best's vZ is better than Stork's? And Jangbi's sure as hell is better than Best's. Bisu is the best toss out of all 4 of them, but Best is the worst. Best and worst vs 2 very very solid toss. In my op, it's equal if not favoring Khan. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On July 18 2009 03:38 BisuBoi wrote: Hotbid I have to disagree with you on Stork/JB < Bisu/Best. You look at those pairs of toss and if they faced off, at worst, Khan would go 1-1. Stork vs Bisu is a cointoss, but JB will wreck Best. I don't know how you can say JB is slumping (he is) and not mention how utter shat Best is right now. And then on the flipside, Jangbi vs Bisu is a loss for Khan, but Best vs Stork is no way in hell going to be a SKT win. Stork's PvP is 10x better than Best's. Best had a hot streak but once everyone realized he's a macro hound without any tactical sense, his days were numbered. Stork's got his number and will not come up short vs this guy. Then you look at the other matchups possible. As if Best's vZ is better than Stork's? And Jangbi's sure as hell is better than Best's. Bisu is the best toss out of all 4 of them, but Best is the worst. Best and worst vs 2 very very solid toss. In my op, it's equal if not favoring Khan. Stork and Best are pretty similar in PvP skill, Bisu is clearly superior to both of them currently, and JangBi is somewhere in between or around Stork/Best. | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
>.> <.< I kid, I kid. | ||
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NonFactor
Sweden698 Posts
On July 18 2009 03:45 fanatacist wrote: Stork and Best are pretty similar in PvP skill, Bisu is clearly superior to both of them currently, and JangBi is somewhere in between or around Stork/Best. Fanboy. Stork whooped Bisu last time they met, and will do so again. Best is horrible currently, slumping even more then Stork and Jangbi. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
On July 18 2009 03:38 BisuBoi wrote: Hotbid I have to disagree with you on Stork/JB < Bisu/Best. You look at those pairs of toss and if they faced off, at worst, Khan would go 1-1. Stork vs Bisu is a cointoss, but JB will wreck Best. I don't know how you can say JB is slumping (he is) and not mention how utter shat Best is right now. And then on the flipside, Jangbi vs Bisu is a loss for Khan, but Best vs Stork is no way in hell going to be a SKT win. Stork's PvP is 10x better than Best's. Best had a hot streak but once everyone realized he's a macro hound without any tactical sense, his days were numbered. Stork's got his number and will not come up short vs this guy. Then you look at the other matchups possible. As if Best's vZ is better than Stork's? And Jangbi's sure as hell is better than Best's. Bisu is the best toss out of all 4 of them, but Best is the worst. Best and worst vs 2 very very solid toss. In my op, it's equal if not favoring Khan. Stork: 2123 ELO, 5-5 L10 overall, 5-3 PvP since losing to Jangbi in March Jangbi: 2128 ELO, 2-8 L10 overall, 1-6 in PvP since beating Stork in Lost Saga MSL back in March Best: 2123 ELO, 5-5 L10 overall, 2-2 in PvP since losing to Bisu in Batoo OSL in MSL Bisu: 2298 ELO, 8-2 L10 overall, 10-3 in PvP since beating Best in March Looking at that, I'd say Bisu >> Stork >= Best = Jangbi at the moment in PvP and overall. Jangbi is playing like ass so who knows what form his vZ and vT will be in? Bisu is so much better than them in every MU, and Best is comparable to Jangbi given how badly Jangbi's been playing lately. Stork's record isn't that much better. | ||
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FranzF1
Chile1710 Posts
This is the Khan playoff. We are going to see a new a ceremony of FBH every night =D | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
On July 18 2009 04:03 NonFactor wrote: Fanboy. Stork whooped Bisu last time they met, and will do so again. Best is horrible currently, slumping even more then Stork and Jangbi. You really should check up on stats and watch the games before you make these sort of statements. Jangbi is playing by far the worst out of all four of them, and Bisu would be a big favorite if he were to play any of them. Most likely though there won't be many PvPs on these maps. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 18 2009 03:38 BisuBoi wrote: Then you look at the other matchups possible. As if Best's vZ is better than Stork's? And Jangbi's sure as hell is better than Best's. Bisu is the best toss out of all 4 of them, but Best is the worst. Best and worst vs 2 very very solid toss. In my op, it's equal if not favoring Khan. If you extend that to include their next player in line though, it swings heavily in favor of SKT. Bisu/Best/Fantasy > Stork/Jangbi/FBH. Bisu and Fantasy have both been playing well as of late, while KHAN's protoss aces have obviously been slumping. They have the capacity to go toe to toe with Bisu and Fantasy, but in their current form it's unlikely. Best and FBH are both the obvious weak links in the teams' top 3 players, but Best on a good day is FAR better than Firebathero on a good day. Both have their obvious problem matchups, but I'm going to have to say that say Best's PvZ is less atrocious than Firebathero's TvP. Moreover, given the lineups of the teams, FBH's bad matchup is more likely to be relevant in an SKT v KHAN final than Best's (SKT has 2 strong Protosses, while KHAN only has 1 good Zerg). | ||
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On July 18 2009 04:03 NonFactor wrote: Fanboy. Stork whooped Bisu last time they met, and will do so again. Best is horrible currently, slumping even more then Stork and Jangbi. Bisu whooped Stork in an MSL Finals setting, when Stork was in better form than he is now and Bisu was not as good as he is now. The loss Bisu has to Stork is on SoT in Proleague, which means fuck-all. Bisu is 8-4 vs. JangBi. Best raped Stork the last time they fought after the Incruit OSL, and is 3-0 vs. JangBi in the past year. Get out. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
On July 18 2009 04:11 nevake wrote: Hotbid, Musoeun was conceding that Calm's ZvZ isn't as good as EffOrt's and arguing that he is more solid in other matchups, therefore a better all around player. Oh, it was worded confusingly. Still, lets compare the other MUs since April: Effort vs T: 14-2, losses to Flash and Mind (won series 2-1), 2170 ELO #3 ZvT Calm vs T: 11-2, losses to Leta and Hiya, 2147 ELO #4 ZvT Effort vs P: 9-2, losses to Iron and Bisu, 2141 ELO #3 ZvP Calm vs P: 8-1, loss to Bisu, 2117 ELO #5 ZvP Both are have sick records of course, but I don't know how you can say Calm is "more solid." If anything Effort is slightly ahead in both non ZvZ matchups. At best, Calm is equal, and their ZvZ is far in Effort's favor. | ||
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BisuBoi
United States350 Posts
On July 18 2009 04:10 TheYango wrote: If you extend that to include their next player in line though, it swings heavily in favor of SKT. Bisu/Best/Fantasy > Stork/Jangbi/FBH. Bisu and Fantasy have both been playing well as of late, while KHAN's protoss aces have obviously been slumping. They have the capacity to go toe to toe with Bisu and Fantasy, but in their current form it's unlikely. Best and FBH are both the obvious weak links in the teams' top 3 players, but Best on a good day is FAR better than Firebathero on a good day. Both have their obvious problem matchups, but I'm going to have to say that say Best's PvZ is less atrocious than Firebathero's TvP. Moreover, given the lineups of the teams, FBH's bad matchup is more likely to be relevant in an SKT v KHAN final than Best's (SKT has 2 strong Protosses, while KHAN only has 1 good Zerg). I agree 100% with you Yango. Top 3 vs top 3 SKT has Khan outclassed badly right now. And it's 100% due to Fantasy, who is an amazing player. But just the toss pairs alone, I don't think it's justifiable to say that SKT is better. To Hotbid: Thanks for taking the time to put up the statistical comparisons. It makes me think Best is less stinky. But I still think they're kind of skewed because they capture Jangbi and Stork at their absolute worst, while Best has been nowhere to be seen. He didn't even show up to the leagues this season and he's been a non-factor in the PL. It's really a Bisu/Fantasy show over at SKT. To me, Best ranks alongside Kal right now. Below Jangbi, and definitely below Stork/Bisu. | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
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Enrique
United States377 Posts
I believe; Khan fighting! | ||
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
KHAN is full of slumpers. in the last 10  JangBi is 2W-8LStork is 5W-5L firebathero is 5W-5L great 5W-5Lso essentially we're looking at a 50% chance of winning  good luck KHAN! | ||
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