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Netherlands5727 Posts
On May 20 2026 22:25 Chosi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2026 15:35 CHEONSOYUN wrote:On May 18 2026 21:23 Maks wrote:
Overall, the patch significantly buffed Terran while heavily nerfing Protoss. And now, a quarter of a century later, we're still living with the consequences.
When Patch 1.08 was released, modern standard maps didn’t exist yet, the meta was completely different, and many mechanics and tricks (such as muta stacking or stacking burrowed Lurkers) had not yet been discovered.
The patch itself wasn’t a mistake — the real mistake was that no further balance patches were ever released afterward. 25 years of good games. this is just literal pointless balance whine. I don't have the impression people are whining here. I don't even play Broodwar, I just watch people play. If there is stuff in a game that people rarely or never use, those items could or should be changed so they can be used. Ideally without skewing balance. And I think all games and scenes benefit from changes from time to time.
The problem is that BW isn't strictly a 1v1 game. There's 2v2, 3v3, FFA, campaign/ums and buffing units rarely used in 1v1 can break other variations of the game.
We change - or if you will - keep the game fresh by creating new maps. If a map is bad, it can just stop being played. On the other hand rolling back a patch or forever patching requires way too much effort and the risks that come with it can destroy the game if e.g. a bad patch (or a decent one that got rolled back) makes people quit. On top of that whether a patch would be good or bad can be much like the never ending debate about Terran and ZvP being imba.
This game is as perfectly flawed as it can get. SC2 despite gods knows how many patches and effort and money pumped into it didn't end up being the better Starcraft game. I hope people let that sink in for a while before opening another patch thread.
Also it took forever for Remastered to reach a point where it could match 1.16.1 that I can't imagine a new patch not hurting the game.
The only "patch" we still need is the 2v2 ladder that was promised to us to sell more Remastered copies.
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this is like complaining that counter strike players don’t use all of the guns enough.
if you want to use all units play campaign.
25 years of good games on this patch + minor remaster changes this argument is already won by history and every ASL season
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would be so cool if they gave us new textures for the map editor
if they never do, at some point we'll have to do it ourselves on shieldbattery or sth
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On May 21 2026 00:38 CHEONSOYUN wrote:
this is like complaining that counter strike players don’t use all of the guns enough.
Would love to see more shotguns!
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On May 21 2026 00:38 CHEONSOYUN wrote:
this is like complaining that counter strike players don’t use all of the guns enough.
This isn't a good example because Valve has made lots of updates to CS to make guns viable and just made a massive change to the ammo system within the last couple months.
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On May 21 2026 09:48 GoShox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2026 00:38 CHEONSOYUN wrote:
this is like complaining that counter strike players don’t use all of the guns enough.
This isn't a good example because Valve has made lots of updates to CS to make guns viable and just made a massive change to the ammo system within the last couple months.
definitely the better game then if the cs players aren’t just using boring guns like rifle
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On May 18 2026 21:41 KameZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2026 21:34 Ryzel wrote:
Okay, what changes would you recommend for a hypothetical new balance patch? Are bug fixes considered balance patching in BW? In that case i'd suggest they fix the issue where ranged units occasionally freeze in place when you move and attack
This was proposed to pro gamers during remastered development.
Bisu said something along the lines of "no don't fix that, I would never loose if that didn't happen sometimes"
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Very interesting discussion. Zerg Drones should have ranged attack and also be able to attack air units.
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On May 19 2026 14:30 FinalGame wrote:
My memory might be wrong...but I recall using bwconnect to join a server to play around with 1.08 a few weeks before it officially launched?
And rumors of marines being able to be loaded into siege tanks, some other wacky stuff I can't recall since it's been forever lol
That is correct. Some of the modifications of 1.08 were already in a non-official 1.08 which was, if my memory serves me, made by the Koreans. There were no replays in 1.07 (of that I'm sure), but this was also implemented in this unofficial 1.08. I think people called it 1.08 beta or something of the sort.
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Damn....it is crazy how long it has been, especially if you have been here the entire time.
I guess this is what it feels like to get older lol, good job StarCraft.
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On May 25 2026 00:41 NoFear.NcC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2026 14:30 FinalGame wrote:
My memory might be wrong...but I recall using bwconnect to join a server to play around with 1.08 a few weeks before it officially launched?
And rumors of marines being able to be loaded into siege tanks, some other wacky stuff I can't recall since it's been forever lol That is correct. Some of the modifications of 1.08 were already in a non-official 1.08 which was, if my memory serves me, made by the Koreans. There were no replays in 1.07 (of that I'm sure), but this was also implemented in this unofficial 1.08. I think people called it 1.08 beta or something of the sort.
Sweet so I did recall it correctly, thanks for the confirm ^^
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Would’ve been really interesting to see how the meta would’ve developed if they kept storm damage at 128. Probably would’ve had a few more Protoss champions!
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this is a very minor pet peeve of mine as a zerg, but creep doesn't want to spread all the way south towards walls; if the wall is below your hatchery, there is always a 1 tile gap that is unbuildable because creep doesn't want to spread all the way to southern walls.
good map makers fix this with neutral lurker egg or the very specific skeleton doodad, but when map makers don't do this for zerg it drives me insane how you can perfectly simcity quick-wall zealots/vultures on some nats but on other nats there is a 1 tile gap because creep doesn't like traveling south
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Its completely true that we’re living with the consequences. And the consequences is a game still active almost 30 years after its release.
How knows wtf would’ve happened if they didn’t make those changes?
We should stop whining and be grateful for what we have. The fact that a RTS game like this is still alive and kicking is an absolute anomaly.
I also believe that everything can be fixed with proper maps. Who’s to say that this format is the «right way to play» anyway? Perhaps 3v3, BGH or maps like fastest is the proper way to compete? Or random vs random? Anyway we good.
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Even the best maps can't make ghosts or scouts viable. :^)
That said, iirc the pro KR players were approached by Blizzard with regards to a balance patch prior to remastered's release, but they rejected the offer. Trying to remember why but I think it's more because of how god awful blizzard was (and still is!) when it comes to balancing starcraft 2 and they don't want any of that in broodwar. If pro players aren't fond of such massive changes then don't expect any big balances to come to broodwar any time soon, especially given that the classic games team at blizzard is pretty much at a skeletal workforce or rather non-existent at this point. (Heck they even passed the maintenance of warcraft 3 reforged to a third party company of all things!)
But imo, I don't think we need a balance patch. I would love to see ghosts and scouts become more viable in professional or heck even in ladder play, but I think most of the "imbalances" that broodwar have can be fixed by having good maps that are constantly updated or made on a regular basis. That's how it went for the past decade or two, why fix what ain't broke?
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I don’t think it was balance patch rather than fixing some glitches, like the dragoon freeze. But they didn’t want anything changed which is completely fine by me.
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Does someone remember the accounts of Remastered developer in here? Or the threads in which they used to post?
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afaik the devs didnt post on forums much (blizz has community managers for that and they post on blizz forums), they spoke directly to the ppl giving them feedback
https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/520632-118-problems-and-suggestions-wishlist (ppl from Blizz might have posted here earlier on but i dont remember, u can look through it if u want but its a big thread)
this was the main SCR thread for bugs/suggestions when the classics team was working on the game, after that they wanted us to move the discussion to the blizz forums so we stopped posting there and went here https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/22814089/ but link is dead for some reason
the first dev team was the classics team led by Pete Stilwell, after that i think there was someone else but i don't remember his name, after some time the classics team left to remaster other Blizz games and a smaller team that took over for BW led by Grant Davies, after he left Matt Sherman was the main dev, after that i dunno who was in charge
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On May 25 2026 23:36 Toshinou-Kyouko wrote:
Even the best maps can't make ghosts or scouts viable. :^)
That said, iirc the pro KR players were approached by Blizzard with regards to a balance patch prior to remastered's release, but they rejected the offer. Trying to remember why but I think it's more because of how god awful blizzard was (and still is!) when it comes to balancing starcraft 2 and they don't want any of that in broodwar. If pro players aren't fond of such massive changes then don't expect any big balances to come to broodwar any time soon, especially given that the classic games team at blizzard is pretty much at a skeletal workforce or rather non-existent at this point. (Heck they even passed the maintenance of warcraft 3 reforged to a third party company of all things!)
But imo, I don't think we need a balance patch. I would love to see ghosts and scouts become more viable in professional or heck even in ladder play, but I think most of the "imbalances" that broodwar have can be fixed by having good maps that are constantly updated or made on a regular basis. That's how it went for the past decade or two, why fix what ain't broke?
Pretty sure the pros were scared that when (not IF!) blizzard stopped patching the game, it would be left in a worse state than it is now. So not really about what blizzard would do, but rather what would happen once they stop updating the game.
Given how SCR is now completely abandoned outside of 2x a year ladder map updates, it was probably for the best.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/IO75mQz.jpeg)
