FlaSh's apology video - Page 4
Forum Index > BW General |
Ideas
United States8036 Posts
| ||
TMNT
2228 Posts
On October 21 2024 23:51 Ideas wrote: What are the odds that flash will be participating in proleague, KCM, etc? I remember reading that KCM in particular is angry with flash so I'm guessing he won't be invited to that tournament unless he makes amends with him? Proleague for sure. In fact we may likely be about to see record funding in the upcoming days. KCM was also upset with Bisu initially but after his apology and when things bacame clearer that he was more of a victim from his idiocy, he was allowed in again. Same thing could happen for Flash. | ||
L3gendary
Canada1470 Posts
| ||
quaristice
108 Posts
On October 22 2024 00:34 L3gendary wrote: If the coin was never released, did any viewers actually lose money? and how? i don't believe any viewers lost money | ||
itsjustatank
Hong Kong9145 Posts
| ||
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands475 Posts
On October 22 2024 00:34 L3gendary wrote: If the coin was never released, did any viewers actually lose money? and how? streamers were the target and some of them lost some or a lot of money. viewer lost nothing except their trust in flash. | ||
Jealous
10077 Posts
Anyway, definitely going a bit on a tangent from the main point so I'll circle back, hooray Flash back but also lmao. | ||
Biff The Understudy
France7771 Posts
On October 22 2024 04:11 Jealous wrote: Before watching this I was basically willing to root for Flash's comeback no matter what but he made this so fuckin' corny, it's like he hired a PR manager and a producer in order to make this video, and while on the one hand I can kinda get the thought process + appreciate the fact that there may be some cultural differences I'm not taking into account, it still feels corny as all hell. Like, did he come up with the questions that he was asking himself? If not, then he probably got him from netizens or other critics, right? So then who parsed which ones to answer or not, and if it was him alone and not someone helping him in the production of this video and the attempt at an image correction, why did he choose to present it this way? Anyway, definitely going a bit on a tangent from the main point so I'll circle back, hooray Flash back but also lmao. I mean, the whole thing is just a PR exercise. I mean, he lost a billion won through being naive and clueless, what is he supposed to do now. Handstand? Like, since there is no money to be repaired or anything, why do people care about the format of his apology video. Does it really make a difference that he appears « sincere » and « authentic »? This is all so pointless. | ||
TMNT
2228 Posts
On October 22 2024 04:59 Biff The Understudy wrote: I mean, the whole thing is just a PR exercise. I mean, he lost a billion won through being naive and clueless, what is he supposed to do now. Handstand? Like, since there is no money to be repaired or anything, why do people care about the format of his apology video. Does it really make a difference that he appears « sincere » and « authentic »? This is all so pointless. The problem is Flash led other pros (Bisu, Sea, etc.) into this scam, whether he knew it was a scam or not. He was also the only one who "advertised" the coin to his fans. Basically he holds the most responsibility but he hid the longest and his apology is the most insincere among them. The others did a live stream where they faced the fans directly, talked for long and answers questions. Flash played a 10 min documentary about himself for his viewers, including some footage of his progamer days which is cringe af. It's like saying "I screwed up. My bad, apologies. But I won't go into any more details. Now look, isn't it exciting that I get into games now?" Of course it makes no difference if we're talking about his ability to return to progaming. But it makes a difference regarding the view of fans on his characters. | ||
quaristice
108 Posts
apologies are partially about knowing that a person understands the harm or potential harm they did, and in doing so, demonstrate that they have learned from the behavior and will not repeat it. it's about restoring trust, because ultimately, he damaged the trust that many people had in him. if he comes back and doesn't apologize properly, how can people trust that he won't pull something bad again, possibly worse, and possibly succeed at it this time? this is one of the many important functions of an apology. and there's plenty of examples of things that fail to have certain impacts but are considered immoral or illegal because of potential impact. check out these sentences: "it's fine, it's attempted murder, nobody was actually murdered" "it's fine that he drove 100mph in a school zone, no children were harmed" "it's fine that she stole $20 from that guy since she gave him back $20 before he noticed" "it's fine for him to cheat on his wife because she doesn't know so it doesn't hurt her" obviously none of these things are the same, but they demonstrate pretty thoroughly that "nothing bad happened this time" doesn't exonerate a person from morality. | ||
NoobSkills
United States1591 Posts
On October 21 2024 17:40 WombaT wrote: No, not always legally but perhaps sometimes it’s rather a good idea to do so. He is a streamer/personality, one needs to be more careful using that position and platform. Most people know how regular endorsements work, I doubt many people actually think George Clooney is grabbing an instant Nescafé when he’s in some glamorous locale. Less so in this space. There’s a reason ‘influencers’ (god I hate that word) have money thrown at them, there’s that sense of authenticity (be it real or not), or that parasocial level of engagement. It’s a powerful asset to have, until you transgress, in which case you can reap the whirlwind of a commensurately more vicious backlash. Flash fucked up and reaped said whirlwind, that’s very much on him. He did also get scammed himself, so I’m not without sympathy there either. For me the rule of thumb if you have a loyal fanbase, if you want to push anything, especially monetary is ‘If my fanbase knew the details of this, would they be OK with it?’ and not ‘Am I doing anything legally wrong?’ If you’re going in with the second option you’ve already fucked up in picking your thresholds. I haven’t done anything illegal if I hypothetically cheated on my partner with my brother’s, it doesn’t mean people wouldn’t be really pissed off Personally I think Flash’s response has been pretty shit, but the guy has suffered somewhat in multiple domains too. I’ve no great issue with him returning to do his thing, although I do have issue with people deflecting any and all responsibility onto everyone else because they want to see him play BW How much of any individuals responsibility should be on others to regulate their choices? If a influencer/celebrity of any type did an advertisement campaign for McDonalds and individuals who ate there regularly died of heart attacks would they be responsible? Towards a bigger note every celebrity has pushed some trash item or gimmick or get rich quick scheme that might be an exaggeration, but I think you get my point. At the time of the crypto and NFT and all sorts of other weird booms there are winners and losers and sometimes just losers, but they knew they were gambling and if they didn't they should have been smart enough to know they weren't smart enough to know what they were doing. Your threshold changes nothing about the situation as well "if my fanbase knew" well, if the fanbase knew his investment was backed which apparently it wasn't I don't think it changes anything. People flocked to other meme coins at the mere mention by anyone because they're looking for a get rich quick lotto ticket. As for legality you're right you can mess up and it not be illegal, but what he did had no malicious intent nor does the result of it indicate he knew it was a scam. They're just simply looking for a scapegoat for their poor investment decisions. And his response is just like anyone and everyone else in that spectrum of people in the limelight. I don't think he is truly sorry, just sorry it caused him issues and lost him money. It isn't about deflecting because I want him to play BW it is because people are looking to blame others for decisions they made if he stayed retired my opinion about personal responsbility doesn't change. On October 21 2024 18:19 Gorsameth wrote: This is a really bad example. I assume you are aware there was actually a massive amount of drama about csgo skin gamblers who failed to disclose they owned or were affiliated with the gambling sites and were gambling with fake money and/or rigged draws to show them winning big? Flash got scammed aswell, he is a victim for sure. Perhaps he never meant to defraud his fans when he promoted the crypto to them, but no matter how you look at it failing to disclose that he had a guaranteed return that others wouldn't have is maybe not illegal but certainly problematic and unethical. "People should know better". But people don't. There are billion dollar industries entirely build around exploiting people not knowing better or not being able to help themselves. And Flash is supposed to be there to teach all those people about the issues with coin investments as a hobbyist investor? He is supposed to teach them about scam coins he didn't know were scam coins? Does he need to teach them about meme NFT investments as well? To what extent is personal responsibility thrown out the window? Again I don't wish that anyone were to make sure mistakes, but I'm not sure they get to blame others for their poor decisions. | ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland23119 Posts
I don’t even think the majority of angry Korean netizens were investors mad they lost money, just people who felt the behaviour was shady. So they have a personal responsibility to… not be annoyed? It’s a minefield, one has to be negotiated with care. It’s stupid that people form these parasocial relationships with streamers, influencers etc, elevate them to think of them as actual friends with all that entails. But, they do do that so you have to consider it and leverage your influence pretty damn diligently. Flash fucked around and found out essentially what happens when someone who thought you were their friend, even though you never met feels you betrayed the friendship I mean our statements aren’t even particularly incompatible. Individuals should not take investment tips from StarCraft player, and crypto is a grifter’s paradise to boot, I don’t even disagree with that in the slightest. Equally in the very specific domain of being a streamer/influencer, consider the particulars of that dynamic and be very careful. Take some personal responsibility there as well. This isn’t to say more regular endorsements aren’t something I have ethical issues with, indeed in ways the opposite. But while similar I don’t think they’re directly equivalent. | ||
prion_
47 Posts
| ||
NoobSkills
United States1591 Posts
On October 22 2024 06:38 WombaT wrote: No just don’t hawk a coin in that platform in that manner? It might blow up in your face. I don’t even think the majority of angry Korean netizens were investors mad they lost money, just people who felt the behaviour was shady. So they have a personal responsibility to… not be annoyed? It’s a minefield, one has to be negotiated with care. It’s stupid that people form these parasocial relationships with streamers, influencers etc, elevate them to think of them as actual friends with all that entails. But, they do do that so you have to consider it and leverage your influence pretty damn diligently. Flash fucked around and found out essentially what happens when someone who thought you were their friend, even though you never met feels you betrayed the friendship I mean our statements aren’t even particularly incompatible. Individuals should not take investment tips from StarCraft player, and crypto is a grifter’s paradise to boot, I don’t even disagree with that in the slightest. Equally in the very specific domain of being a streamer/influencer, consider the particulars of that dynamic and be very careful. Take some personal responsibility there as well. This isn’t to say more regular endorsements aren’t something I have ethical issues with, indeed in ways the opposite. But while similar I don’t think they’re directly equivalent. So he could hawk a coin, but get paid cash, disclose cash, the coin goes bust or the owner scams everyone, but as long as he disclosed that he got paid and it was secured it would have been all good? Would that have changed anything really? really? As for your "think the majority of angry Korean netizens were investors mad they lost money" isn't that actually the case right? In the end nobody actually invested right? It was still on building blocks and not open to the public right? So they're mad about money they didn't even lose or invest lol. As for the parasocial minefield. Something something Darwin survivial.... But seriously though this day in age in the world scams happening all the time, governments stealing your money to give to their cohorts, every single massive Corportation looking for a chance to steal a few bucks here and there, greedy, scam, shady etc. How can you not look at almost everything with at least some skepticism? This instance flash didn't even know the coin was a scam, he got scammed, they were about to get scammed by proxy, and this wasn't even an intelligent con. This wasn't a regulated stock market investment it was a meme coin. I'm sorry but your personal responsibility in this situation is 1000% on you. There are issues with plenty of regulated entities trying to mess over people, but you're essentially buying a lottery ticket with meme investing and at the point in which you're not smart enough to know you're not smart enough to be in that field , well you paid for a valuable lesson. And while I don't wish any harm what so ever on any regular joe, no money loss, no theft no medical, no devastation. I'm just not sure I can find the blame that they're looking for. ESPECIALLY since none of them actually invested. ESPECIALLY since flash himself actually got scammed. It is some sort of weird virtue signal extension of a crime/scam that didn't even happen to them nor anyone else. Edit: Wanted to extend the last bit. 1. The way the apology happened I do agree was moronic. 2. I don't actually think he is sorry except for in the ways that it cost him money and good will 3. All of their PR general statements and ways of dealing with this are simply that PR general statements. 4. Yes, I do think your own personal integrity should keep you away from known scams, but I don't think he knew it was a scam, and I do think he got lucky with meme coin investments before and thought he was some sort of a coin guru when in reality he just hit 21 a few times in a row. | ||
Biff The Understudy
France7771 Posts
On October 22 2024 05:29 TMNT wrote: The problem is Flash led other pros (Bisu, Sea, etc.) into this scam, whether he knew it was a scam or not. He was also the only one who "advertised" the coin to his fans. Basically he holds the most responsibility but he hid the longest and his apology is the most insincere among them. The others did a live stream where they faced the fans directly, talked for long and answers questions. Flash played a 10 min documentary about himself for his viewers, including some footage of his progamer days which is cringe af. It's like saying "I screwed up. My bad, apologies. But I won't go into any more details. Now look, isn't it exciting that I get into games now?" Of course it makes no difference if we're talking about his ability to return to progaming. But it makes a difference regarding the view of fans on his characters. I realize. It’s just, we watch him because he is a very good player, not because he is a great guy, a smart investor or has a superior character. Why is any of that in the job description. This has nothing to do with brood war. Flash is naive and has been dumb enough to get himself and others into a get rich quick scam. Ok. Maybe, he is even not a great guy. Cool. Do we watch StarCraft games because the players are great guys? I know that’s celebrity culture these days and people care that you cheat on your wife because apparently that’s relevant to you golfing skills or something. I find it unbelievably dumb. | ||
Magic Powers
Austria3410 Posts
On October 22 2024 08:16 Biff The Understudy wrote: I realize. It’s just, we watch him because he is a very good player, not because he is a great guy, a smart investor or has a superior character. Why is any of that in the job description. This has nothing to do with brood war. Flash is naive and has been dumb enough to get himself and others into a get rich quick scam. Ok. Maybe, he is even not a great guy. Cool. Do we watch StarCraft games because the players are great guys? I know that’s celebrity culture these days and people care that you cheat on your wife because apparently that’s relevant to you golfing skills or something. I find it unbelievably dumb. I'll preface my 2 cents by saying that I think Flash should make a full return to SC. My 2 cents: I understand the other side, too. On stream he hyped up a coin that turned out to be a scam. Though he was unaware of the scam, the platform he used was for SC streaming. He used it for that and for the coin hype, both. If he had separated the two things, it could be much more reasonably argued that there shouldn't be a controversy about his return to SC streaming, since in that case he couldn't have affected any of his viewers with the coin hype. I hope this makes sense. | ||
coloursheep
China496 Posts
If I pay someone to make a bomb and they take the money but make a fake bomb that doesn't blow up that doesn't absolve me. | ||
Emnjay808
United States10633 Posts
I feel like these are one and the same. | ||
cha0
Canada499 Posts
On October 22 2024 00:15 TMNT wrote: Proleague for sure. In fact we may likely be about to see record funding in the upcoming days. KCM was also upset with Bisu initially but after his apology and when things bacame clearer that he was more of a victim from his idiocy, he was allowed in again. Same thing could happen for Flash. It's been so long so my memory is foggy but wasn't KCM saying that Flash is worse than savior for his behavior? I remember him being way more agitated and upset at Flash compared to Bisu. | ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland23119 Posts
On October 22 2024 11:27 Emnjay808 wrote: Theres a streamer that wanted to back an NFT with his brand. At the time he thought it was legitimate. Of course the backlash from the community made him withdraw from launching the NFT, I believe he mentioned he lost 50k. And I truly believe he was genuine about the NFT and not performing a rug pull. Even after backing away, years later people still hold him scummy and accountable even when no one lost money. But again, he was genuine in thinking NFTs were a real thing. I feel like these are one and the same. That does suck for the guy/gal, and believe me I fucking hate crypto/NFT bullshit. Be it appearing prominently on Google, or having 9th-hand ‘oh I heard…’ posts on Reddit it’s pretty difficult to ever escape flak from any kind of genuine error these days It’s really only the reported idea that Flash believed he had some guarantee of investment that cross over from mistake into shady territory, that would be the difference for me versus your summation of this streamer Equally I mean, not something I would burn Flash at the stake for at all | ||
| ||