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Gorsameth
Netherlands21664 Posts
On October 21 2024 06:55 Emnjay808 wrote: Because he also convinced his fans to invest?According to the video Flash invested his own money. Why does he need to apologize to fans? | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands836 Posts
On October 21 2024 06:57 Gorsameth wrote: Because he also convinced his fans to invest? They never invested. Whether Flash had malicious intent though is up for debate still. Flash talked about the coin to his viewers and did encourage them that the coin was going to be great. Flash however was the target of the scam, not the viewers. If Flash had malicious intent in his shilling of the coin, then yes, we should hold him accountable for that. But if he had no malicious intent and was purely used by Suit, then we should hold Suit accountable for all of it and cut Flash some slack. Flash was not prosecuted so court likely deemed him not a part of the scheme but instead a victim. Flash should clarify things in greater detail and clear the air once and for all. | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10655 Posts
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cheesehuehue
Vatican City State90 Posts
On October 21 2024 08:03 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: They never invested. Whether Flash had malicious intent though is up for debate still. Flash talked about the coin to his viewers and did encourage them that the coin was going to be great. Flash however was the target of the scam, not the viewers. If Flash had malicious intent in his shilling of the coin, then yes, we should hold him accountable for that. But if he had no malicious intent and was purely used by Suit, then we should hold Suit accountable for all of it and cut Flash some slack. Flash was not prosecuted so court likely deemed him not a part of the scheme but instead a victim. Flash should clarify things in greater detail and clear the air once and for all. This is by far the most reasonable and least speculative take I've seen about this topic. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13005 Posts
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Navane
Netherlands2748 Posts
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NoobSkills
United States1598 Posts
On October 21 2024 08:50 Navane wrote: If flash thought he had a secret guarantee on his investment, and his fans had not on theirs, and he encouraged his fans to invest, then that was bad and deserves an apology. The fact that suit ran a meta scam and never even intended to launch the coin is not relevant. The fact that the coin never materialized doesn't erase flashes intentions. Let's say as a public advertiser, he got paid 300k not guaranteed, just cash to advertise for this fake coin and his job was the promote it for that money. Still had no idea it was a scam, had no controlling interest etc etc etc. Does that still make him guilty of misleading? Don't individuals have a responsibility especially with an already risky investment entity to realize not only that it could potentially be a scam, but also it simply could have bottomed out if it were legit. How much is he responsible for people's risky lottery ticket "investments"? Is it any different than a celebrity touting some product they don't use who perhaps receives half their payment in stock or those weirdo skin gambler streams where they gamble and win/lose fake money from the website to be a part of the advertisement? Now sure there is the caveat that a lot of this is kids gambling but we're not narrowly focusing on that specific thing. My point is how much is it anyone's responsibility to baby sit fucking adults? The guarantee on the meme investment changes nothing in my opinion and everyone should know that meme coins, meme NFTs, meme stocks etc are risky and have massive potential for many points of failure. And considering from what I've seen it appears that Flash had ZERO idea that it was a scam coin nor did he have any ownership over the company providing the coin, so it seems as if people are looking for a scapegoat for their own poor investing. Beyond that, I'm fairly certain that if any one of them asked any reputable investment firm about coins and specifically new/unreleased ones they would have been alerted to the risks, not to mention a simple google search could have shown examples of specifically that scam coins or coins that went bust. Again their poor investments aren't the responsibility of anyone else. It isn't like Flash was holding a gun to their head demanding they invest in scamcoin.net. | ||
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Vasoline73
United States7801 Posts
Being angry at the guy who just got scammed out of 700K USD is ridiculous. You lose 700k because you believe in the scammer obviously. If Flash believed in the project and shilled it to his viewers, that's not him trying to scam his viewers... it's just being an idiot and sharing his idiotic view with others. Ultimately individual investors are responsible for their own investments... Sorry to hear about the whole situation but looking forward to watching Flash play again. Also... I get that people are still going to be mad, I'm not calling anyone who is mad an idiot. Just saying 700k is a lot and typically scammers are smart about not being scammed (like Flash wasn't) | ||
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quaristice
112 Posts
obviously legality isn't morality, but i think that maybe might give some context to people's reactions? | ||
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NoobSkills
United States1598 Posts
On October 21 2024 11:23 quaristice wrote: i'm not an expert, but if it had been a stock or other security more tightly regulated than crypto, i believe in most countries what flash had done would be illegal, would it not? you're typically legally required to disclose details that he didn't disclose, at least that's my understanding, regardless of if he himself got scammed or not. obviously legality isn't morality, but i think that maybe might give some context to people's reactions? Based off everything we know right now, as it is, if this were a stock deal, I cannot think of anything that would get him in trouble. It isn't insider trading. Nobody is forced to claim or acknowledge if they have stock guarantees or backed stock options. Perhaps sometimes if you were in government or position of authority this might be an issue, but flash wasn't in those types of positions. He didn't own the coin creator's company, he wasn't management, he wasn't some government employee reviewing data or who was on the inside trade. He was more of a spokesperson or hired celebrity tasked with advertising the product. I don't know how much Michael Jordan gets paid by Hanes I'm sure you could figure it out, and I'm not sure if he had options in stock or backed stock from that company and while I'm sure maybe if an individual wanted to they could figure it out, I simply don't think there is an obligation for anyone to tell you anything. I am not a universal market investor or lawyer, don't cite me. I just don't see the directly applicable portion of known issues. Perhaps someone with more legal knowledge than myself might have an opposing idea, but I don't see how. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50119 Posts
On October 21 2024 08:50 RowdierBob wrote: How do the other pros feel about Flash? Like they all despise Savior but the Flash situation is obv very different. Is there sympathy for Flash among his peers or are they annoyed about the bad publicity be brought the game? pretty interested in this, but my feeling is that they're obviously fine since they still play against him pretty openly, its not the same as running into MJY on ladder. | ||
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Bonyth
Poland560 Posts
Drama is also good for bigger viewership. As for the whole crypto thing, we don't know if Flash knew that the coin was a scam. If he knew and he lead people to invest on purpose, then he is not a nice human being; if not, he is one of the biggest victims. | ||
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HOLYBATS
Turkey726 Posts
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kAra
Germany1369 Posts
people who still complain just love drama i suppose | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25130 Posts
On October 21 2024 11:34 NoobSkills wrote: Based off everything we know right now, as it is, if this were a stock deal, I cannot think of anything that would get him in trouble. It isn't insider trading. Nobody is forced to claim or acknowledge if they have stock guarantees or backed stock options. Perhaps sometimes if you were in government or position of authority this might be an issue, but flash wasn't in those types of positions. He didn't own the coin creator's company, he wasn't management, he wasn't some government employee reviewing data or who was on the inside trade. He was more of a spokesperson or hired celebrity tasked with advertising the product. I don't know how much Michael Jordan gets paid by Hanes I'm sure you could figure it out, and I'm not sure if he had options in stock or backed stock from that company and while I'm sure maybe if an individual wanted to they could figure it out, I simply don't think there is an obligation for anyone to tell you anything. I am not a universal market investor or lawyer, don't cite me. I just don't see the directly applicable portion of known issues. Perhaps someone with more legal knowledge than myself might have an opposing idea, but I don't see how. No, not always legally but perhaps sometimes it’s rather a good idea to do so. He is a streamer/personality, one needs to be more careful using that position and platform. Most people know how regular endorsements work, I doubt many people actually think George Clooney is grabbing an instant Nescafé when he’s in some glamorous locale. Less so in this space. There’s a reason ‘influencers’ (god I hate that word) have money thrown at them, there’s that sense of authenticity (be it real or not), or that parasocial level of engagement. It’s a powerful asset to have, until you transgress, in which case you can reap the whirlwind of a commensurately more vicious backlash. Flash fucked up and reaped said whirlwind, that’s very much on him. He did also get scammed himself, so I’m not without sympathy there either. For me the rule of thumb if you have a loyal fanbase, if you want to push anything, especially monetary is ‘If my fanbase knew the details of this, would they be OK with it?’ and not ‘Am I doing anything legally wrong?’ If you’re going in with the second option you’ve already fucked up in picking your thresholds. I haven’t done anything illegal if I hypothetically cheated on my partner with my brother’s, it doesn’t mean people wouldn’t be really pissed off Personally I think Flash’s response has been pretty shit, but the guy has suffered somewhat in multiple domains too. I’ve no great issue with him returning to do his thing, although I do have issue with people deflecting any and all responsibility onto everyone else because they want to see him play BW | ||
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iloveav
Poland1478 Posts
One thing is to pump and dump coins to make money yourself, and another is to lose cash yourself and by saying what you are doing and that you think its a good idea to put money into it (which is dangerous when you are famous, so this has two sides). I do not know if Flash had any back deals like being paid on the side to promote this or any of those things. And SC:BW does have a very, very troubling history, so it's not like that helps either. I think crypto has been doing a lot of damage over a lot of years so I have believe to some extent that people are complicit if they promote crypto even if they eventually get scammed as well You have so many cases about crypto scams and its been going on for years. It is kind of like going to a strip club and saying you were there only for the drink. (or the music). At some point the "im just dumb" excuse stops working, especially when you stand to make a lot of money if things go your way. Not sure I explained my view very well. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21664 Posts
On October 21 2024 10:18 NoobSkills wrote: This is a really bad example. I assume you are aware there was actually a massive amount of drama about csgo skin gamblers who failed to disclose they owned or were affiliated with the gambling sites and were gambling with fake money and/or rigged draws to show them winning big?Is it any different than a celebrity touting some product they don't use who perhaps receives half their payment in stock or those weirdo skin gambler streams where they gamble and win/lose fake money from the website to be a part of the advertisement? Now sure there is the caveat that a lot of this is kids gambling but we're not narrowly focusing on that specific thing. My point is how much is it anyone's responsibility to baby sit fucking adults? Flash got scammed aswell, he is a victim for sure. Perhaps he never meant to defraud his fans when he promoted the crypto to them, but no matter how you look at it failing to disclose that he had a guaranteed return that others wouldn't have is maybe not illegal but certainly problematic and unethical. "People should know better". But people don't. There are billion dollar industries entirely build around exploiting people not knowing better or not being able to help themselves. | ||
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kajtarp
Hungary474 Posts
On October 21 2024 06:57 Gorsameth wrote: Because he also convinced his fans to invest? I do not want to exhonorate Flash from anything, but people should be responsible for their own action as well? I don't care if my favorite actor, or if my favorite football player, or if my favorite f1 driver would advertise something, I would do my own research and would not jump into it just because someone says so. Especially not in crypto world. Yes i know, there is Bitcoin, Ethereum etc. but the smaller coins were and are always very volatile. | ||
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quaristice
112 Posts
i think the apology video itself is a bad apology video, for two reasons: - it leaves some of those details unclear, and it invites these exact questions. if he didn't answer these questions after years of prep time to think about how and what to apologize for, it implies he doesn't understand why people are upset, and therefore doesn't construct a good apology. this could just be him fucking up, and not intentionality, but i can understand how people who care more might react with the assumption that it is intentionality. - the montage of him in starleagues and the recording setting of him setting in the room with all the gamer computers really rubs me the wrong way, like it's an attempt to play on emotions in a way that's not related to the apology or issue itself. like "look! remember all these times i was so cool in starcraft!" again, might just be a bad choice! lol! but man does it feel manipulative. and it's connected with him talking about his own desires and goals for coming back to starcraft, when an apology should not be about yourself, again, it's an issue with it lacking the construction of a proper apology. like he shouldn't be talking about coming back to starcraft until *after* an apology. i think even if you think he did nothing wrong, you gotta admit, the video is just bad. i do think it sucks how much he's borne the brunt of the blame for this whole thing when plenty of other guys were involved and obviously this "suit" guy is the real asshole here On October 21 2024 11:34 NoobSkills wrote: Based off everything we know right now, as it is, if this were a stock deal, I cannot think of anything that would get him in trouble. It isn't insider trading. Nobody is forced to claim or acknowledge if they have stock guarantees or backed stock options. Perhaps sometimes if you were in government or position of authority this might be an issue, but flash wasn't in those types of positions. He didn't own the coin creator's company, he wasn't management, he wasn't some government employee reviewing data or who was on the inside trade. He was more of a spokesperson or hired celebrity tasked with advertising the product. I don't know how much Michael Jordan gets paid by Hanes I'm sure you could figure it out, and I'm not sure if he had options in stock or backed stock from that company and while I'm sure maybe if an individual wanted to they could figure it out, I simply don't think there is an obligation for anyone to tell you anything. I am not a universal market investor or lawyer, don't cite me. I just don't see the directly applicable portion of known issues. Perhaps someone with more legal knowledge than myself might have an opposing idea, but I don't see how. it's not like hanes, michael jordan wasn't telling people to invest, the rules are very different in telling people to buy underwear vs. securities like crypto or stocks. a quick google search of "if you're paid to promote a stock do you have to reveal that" seems to indicate that it's required in usa that you do in fact have to reveal that. it seems like not revealing it would be fraud? obviously korea might work very differently and cryptocurrency aren't stocks. my understanding is that flash revealed some of his involvement but not all the details? dunno if flash really intended it to be an intentional lie but typically i'd say most people don't view this stuff on intentionality, just effects. i guess neither of us are experts, dunno if there's anyone on here that would know this stuff? On October 21 2024 18:59 kajtarp wrote: I do not want to exhonorate Flash from anything, but people should be responsible for their own action as well? I don't care if my favorite actor, or if my favorite football player, or if my favorite f1 driver would advertise something, I would do my own research and would not jump into it just because someone says so. Especially not in crypto world. Yes i know, there is Bitcoin, Ethereum etc. but the smaller coins were and are always very volatile. i feel like the following two things can be true at the same time - fans have a responsibility when they fall for very obviously bad financial advice or scams - a celebrity should not use their influence to promote a thing that can cause people serious harm, unless they are fully sure they know every detail. *especially* if they have a financial interest in promoting it. | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
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